'Blessing' not to be in EU: Swiss poll

AVN_1

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually Switzerland (and especially Lichtenstein) are both heavily industrialized and you will find manufacturing industries in even the smallest little villages in either. Lest we forget, Switzerland is also a major player in both the R&D and manufacture of pharmaceuticals worldwide.

Although in absolute numbers the Swiss are slightly ahead of us, on a per capita basis we're well ahead of them in export of pharmaceuticals worldwide.

Ireland (2011):

Pharmaceutical products (exports) - $ 36,033,732,000

AVN_1

The Corinthian wrote: »

That has nothing to do with your claim that "the housing bubble was mainly due to the cheap Euro loans and it was burst by the ECB interest rate manipulations" - you're now attempting to change the discussion to distract from your earlier assertion to some new claim that countries with their own currencies are better off, and doing so by simply handpicking a few examples that support this view and ignoring the rest.

So, are you going to back up your most recent soundbite or are you going to continue to play games?

I'm not changing anything, I've just replied to your post and question the validity of some of your previous assertions.

The Corinthian

AVN_1 wrote: »

Although in absolute numbers the Swiss are slightly ahead of us, on per capita basis we're well ahead of them in export of pharmaceuticals worldwide.

Ireland (2011):

Pharmaceutical products (exports) - $ 36,033,732,000

In other words; what I said was correct and you're still not backing up your latest claim. More games?

The Corinthian

AVN_1 wrote: »

I'm not changing anything, I've just replied to your post and question the validity of some of your previous assertions.

Actually you are. You claimed:

AVN_1 wrote: »

The housing bubble was mainly due to the cheap Euro loans and it was burst by the ECB interest rate manipulations.

And then you respond by changing the topic and addressing what I have previously written rather than back up your own claims as asked.

Are you going to back up that claim?

AVN_1

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually you are. You claimed:

And then you respond by changing the topic and addressing what I have previously written rather than back up your own claims as asked.

Are you going to back up that claim?

1) Who are you to ask me?

2) I'm just replying to your own post, step by step, if you want something - just wait, and I will answer in a due course. Understood?

shanered

AVN_1 wrote: »

1) Who are you to ask me?

2) I'm just replying to your own post, step by step, if you want something - just wait, and I will answer in a due course. Understood?

Poor response above, boards is a public forum which invites discussion, who is anybody for that matter to say anything?

There was a credit bubble along with the housing bubble that helped us dig our own whole, but if we stayed with our own currency we probably wouldn't have had the same credit inflow through our banks would we?

We didnt help the situation but neither did the euro as a whole.

The Corinthian

AVN_1 wrote: »

1) Who are you to ask me?

A contributor to this discussion, not an audience for soapboxing.

2) I'm just replying to your own post, step by step, if you want something - just wait, and I will answer in a due course. Understood?

No, you won't. If you wanted to respond, even step by step, you could do so in a single post.

Instead you're clearly changing the conversation and those 'steps' will never actually result in you actually addressing what you have been challenged on. It's called digression and it's an old trick.

Now, will you back up that claim or would you prefer to pull out another old trick to avoid doing so?

Solair

Switzerland to me seems like a rather self-righteous tax-haven with ask-no-questions banks - hence it's very wealthy.

As far as I can see the EU allows itself to be undermined as a trade bloc by allowing countries like Switzerland to have basically full access to the EU's markets and other niceties without any of the obligations (cooperation, solidarity etc) that other EU members are required to have.

There's not much point in being in the EU or the Euro if it gives you no advantages and the likes of Switzerland, Norway, Iceland and even non-Eurozone members e.g. the UK, Sweden, Denmark and much of Eastern Europe can have every bit as much access to the common market as those of us who have actually stood by each-other and committed to some kind of a shared future have.

I can't imagine the US allowing Canada to have full access to every aspect of its internal markets, or allowing say Mexico to join the some 2nd tier USA in the way the EU/EEA works.

Likewise, I can't imagine them letting say California have the Cali$ instead of the US$.

The EU has all of those kinds of anomalies and I think the relationship with Switzerland is one of the most stark examples of why the EU doesn't quite work.

The Corinthian

Solair wrote: »

As far as I can see the EU allows itself to be undermined as a trade bloc by allowing countries like Switzerland to have basically full access to the EU's markets and other niceties without any of the obligations (cooperation, solidarity etc) that other EU members are required to have.

Actually they have obligations to cooperate with treaties signed with the EU, including treaties that obligate them to implement many bilateral rules and laws that are decided upon by the EU without their input.

I can't imagine the US allowing Canada to have full access to every aspect of its internal markets, or allowing say Mexico to join the some 2nd tier USA in the way the EU/EEA works.

Actually the EU/EEA do not have full access to every aspect of each others markets; there are still duties, quotas and tariffs in place between each other. I can assure you there are big differences.

Likewise, I can't imagine them letting say California have the Cali$ instead of the US$.

The EU has all of those kinds of anomalies and I think the relationship with Switzerland is one of the most stark examples of why the EU doesn't quite work.

I think you're confusing the EU with an actual federated nation like the US; it's not. The EU is at best a very loose confederation, not unlike the Old Swiss Confederacy or perhaps, to a much lesser extent, the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth were.

The EU is still little more than a glorified trading block; loss of national sovereignty to the bloc has been almost completely economic in nature. Outside of commercial or macroeconomic areas, legislative or political transfer of powers, this has been very limited and areas such as foreign policy and military matters, non-existent.

Does it work? Well it did up until recently and the reason we are now in a quandary is because it's become evident that the federalist bogeymen that were being cited by eurosceptics turned out to be phantoms - we're still ultimately a bunch of independent national governments with overlapping economic interests. And where they don't overlap, is where you find lack of cohesion as you are seeing in the difference between German and PIIGS views at present.

BKtje

The Corinthian wrote: »

Actually the EU/EEA do not have full access to every aspect of each others markets; there are still duties, quotas and tariffs in place between each other. I can assure you there are big differences.

Just as a confirmation of this. Buying goods from the Eu (for private use) still has to pass through customs where VAT and administration charges are added on. EU vat however is (in most cases) deducted from the sales price. It is still very different than buying goods within the EU where these just pass through without much problem.

I wonder what the new EU agreement which was agreed upon last night will do to the Swiss opinions of the EU in the long run. I can't see them ever wanting their banks to be "supervised" but a weakening of the Euro due to increase in the availability of money coulld be very expensive for Switzerland. Should be interesting anyway.

The Corinthian

BKtje wrote: »

I wonder what the new EU agreement which was agreed upon last night will do to the Swiss opinions of the EU in the long run. I can't see them ever wanting their banks to be "supervised" but a weakening of the Euro due to increase in the availability of money coulld be very expensive for Switzerland. Should be interesting anyway.

The Swiss presently do not need to be in the EU, neither do they want to be in the EU (remember this is a country that only joined the UN in 2002) and given their economy (low taxes, high prices and salaries and strongly dependant on an 'independent' banking sector) I wouldn't blame them.

Given this, they're not dumb, and they're well aware that they're surrounded and the advantages of their banking sector are being eroded. Ten years ago I could walk into a bank with CHF 20 and open an account, and all I'd need to do is show my passport - today, it's nigh on impossible to do this, even if you're resident in Switzerland.

So the debate there has been, from what I've been told, between the rednecks who vote for the SVP and want to build a wall around the country versus those who see the EU as probably inevitable and think it better to join when they can still bargain for a good deal.

The current crisis has silenced this debate, but only until it's abated, then the Swiss will begin it once more - so presuming that the EU is still around, I expect it likely Switzerland will be part of the EU in our lifetime, but not any time soon.