More Revenue Shenanigans from Mick Wallace

vicwatson

gizmo555 wrote: »

It's both!

The Gardai will NOT go and arrest him for admitting he evaded tax, Simples

jmayo

djpbarry wrote: »

He doesn't owe the state, his company does. Legally, there's a big difference. Limiting one's liability is one of the main reasons people go to the trouble of setting up limited companies.

Legally he has repsonsibilities as a company director and he failed in these.
Also there is the little matter of continuing to trade when it was reckless to do so.

People have been done for that in the past.
Rare I know but there have been some pulled up on it.
A few years back a couple in Wicklow used there failing business to fund their own spending including credit cards and AFAIK they were brought to court by revenue.

legendary.xix wrote: »

There are many examples of people committing tax crime and being put in jail. Does this apply to TDs?

Not in this jurisdiction.
See flynn, lowry, haughey for prime examples. :mad:

vicwatson wrote: »

It's a civil NOT a criminal matter.

Revenue can pursue him.

I thought not paying your taxing was a criminal offense ?
Was this not tax evasion ?

vicwatson wrote: »

The Gardai will NOT go and arrest him for admitting he evaded tax, Simples

No but a case can be brought by revenue where he can be penalised.
Of course revenue have done a deal, a settlement where they actually get nothing.
Wippee for the Irish system.
I wonder if the next time I screw up or am late with my VAT return, can I ask for one of those settlements, rather than a fine ?
Then again I am not a TD. :rolleyes:

walshb

Wallace has to go, but then again, we are in Ireland. The man admitted to an illegal act, knew it was illegal too.

dublinman1990

The audio link from his RTE radio and Charlie Flanagan interview are here.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0607/wallace-confirms-2-1m-settlement-with-revenue.html#audio

If you are watching the news right now; there will be a live interview of MW on 6.1 News in few moments.

plasmaguy

vicwatson wrote: »

Have you looked at the alternatives for the people of Wexford at the time, at all costs Fianna Fail weren't getting majority votes. None of the politicians work for Wexford, they bring in SFA investment and jobs to Wexford, they all just talk a good show. They are all and always have been a disaster for Wexford.

Look at Howlin for example, an ex Minister, TD etc before being elected again a year ago - never did a tap for Wexford, yet he was forever topping the poll.

Paul Kehoe is a joke - Chief Whip of the gov party and what's he dones for Wexford.

Anyone who wants to contradict me please provide valid examples of what Wexford politicians have brought to Wexford in the last 10/15 years.

Wallace was voted partly protest/partly young vote/partly as people thought as an Independent they might have an alternative representative (just as they voted for Twomey as an independent and then he jumped ship to Fine Gael - a big two fingers to the electorate that voted for him as an independent).

Vote for crap, get crap, and on the other side choices are so terribly limited in Wexford.

What has Wallace done for Wexford only also talk a good show. The guy is a spoofer, has been from the start, he's part of the Developer class that wrecked this country.

What do you think happens when someone fails to pay millions in tax? There has to be cuts and also taxes raised to make up the shortfall. That's not to mention the fact that he owes millions to banks, banks which the government may end up bailing out with taxpayer money.

This whole TD lark he's embarked on seems to be one big PR stunt for him. Dress in a pink shirt, sit beside the ULA in the Dail and suddenly everyone thinks he's a socialist and a man of the people.

BlaasForRafa

djpbarry wrote: »

The question here is what are the people of Wexford doing electing a pretty dodgy builder to the Dail? I could maybe have understood it ten years ago, but now?

The following quote is from a friend of mine from Wexford

I don't care he is a Wexford man who has done a lot my county and in the grand scheme of things he is innocent

And he's not the only one I've heard say similar things. This is the kind of mentality we're dealing with, the "sure he's a nice fella who's done a lot for the town/county/wherever"

For a lot of people parochialism trumps justice.

JustinDee

Bloody hell. That's some blind loyalty if ever there was.
This feckin' place . . .

Icepick

The chancers in Wexford have the democratic right to elect a thief to truly represent them, no?

Sierra Oscar

The silence from the Technical group is deafening.

If this was a FG / FF TD in question then they would be up in arms and would be chanting for a resignation. Hypocrites.

ThisRegard

The Last Word requested statements or quotes from everyone in the group, only got replies from 2, and they were prepared statements saying that it's up to the people of Wexford to decide that happens regarding his position. What a cop out, it's not like they can vote him out mid term.

gerryo777

djpbarry wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2012/0607/1224317444365.html

At a time when public opinion of property developers (or builders, as we used to call them) is at an all time low..

There's a big difference between a property developer and a builder, big difference.
One speculates for a living and the other works for a living.

Property developers/speculators destroyed the industry.

expectationlost

ThisRegard wrote: »

The Last Word requested statements or quotes from everyone in the group, only got replies from 2, and they were prepared statements saying that it's up to the people of Wexford to decide that happens regarding his position. What a cop out, it's not like they can vote him out mid term.

enda said the same thing

gerryo777

Icepick wrote: »

The chancers in Wexford have the democratic right to elect a thief to truly represent them, no?

The chancers in Dublin elected an incompetent chancer to represent them and 'lead' the country and we've seen what he did to the country...

jimmycrackcorm

I wonder if his company was still paying his salary while he made the decision to withhold, the VAT that was collected.

The fact that the people of Wexford will still deliver him as a poll topper after this news speaks volumes about what is fundamentally wrong with this country.

Sierra Oscar

The Technical Group has finally issued a (wish-washy) statement.

Independent Group Press Release
7th June 2012

In response to media queries about Mick Wallace TD we would like to make it clear that we do not condone his behaviour, we believe he has done wrong and that he should be equally accountable as any other TD or ordinary Irish citizen.

Anyone who is not aligned to a party is automatically entitled to membership of the Technical Group under the rules of the Dail.

Finian McGrath, Shane Ross, Catherine Murphy, Ming Luke Flanagan, Thomas Pringle, Tom Fleming, Mattie McGrath, Maureen O’Sullivan and Stephen Donnelly.
**Nb: Deputy John Halligan is currently out of the country and could not be contacted for comment**

gerryo777

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The fact that the people of Wexford will still deliver him as a poll topper after this news speaks volumes about what is fundamentally wrong with this country.

Sure, look at lowry, look at ahern at the time, healy-rea's etc etc.

Parish pump politics by the gombeen men, elected by gombeen men.

Wallace is no better or no worse than the rest of them.

We get what we deserve.

Vizzy

I've said this on another thread ;
Lowry has not admitted to or has been found guilty of anything(and I'm not saying that he is or isn't guilty),nor has Healy Rae(s),but this pr**k has admitted on national radio and tv that he is a tax cheat and yet we have "gombeens" on here who are willing to defend him.
Wake up people,who are the real fools here ?
Wallace genuinely couldn't care less about this country and he's off to Poznan to enjoy the soccer while we worry what school/army barracks/hospital beds need to be closed due to a missing €1.4m.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

I've said this on another thread ;
Lowry has not admitted to or has been found guilty of anything(and I'm not saying that he is or isn't guilty),nor has Healy Rae(s),but this pr**k has admitted on national radio and tv that he is a tax cheat and yet we have "gombeens" on here who are willing to defend him.
Wake up people,who are the real fools here ?
Wallace genuinely couldn't care less about this country and he's off to Poznan to enjoy the soccer while we worry what school/army barracks/hospital beds need to be closed due to a missing €1.4m.

Not defending him at all, maybe he's too honest for his own good.

If ahern and the rest of them had been as straight with us, the tribunals wouldn't have gone on for so long and wouldn't have cost an absolute fortune.

But sure if we need a scapegoat, wallace is your man!

Vizzy

gerry,
I'm not accusing you of defending him and I'm certainly not going to defend any of the others(Lowry and co.).
Personnally I think that this sort of parish pump politics is probably the one reason why our politicians are not taken seriously on the "national stage".
I happened to be driving for most of today and listened to various comentaries/discussions on the Wallace saga.
Whilst there was plenty of abhorrence and gnashing of teeth at his behaviour,the people from Wexford rallied to support him and I got the impression that if there were an election called tomorrow that he would certainly be elected.
The comment that summed it up for me was"he did a great job with Wexford youths"
FFS:mad:

expectationlost

can't find any mention of him owing money to revenue before the election

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

gerry,
I'm not accusing you of defending him and I'm certainly not going to defend any of the others(Lowry and co.).
Personnally I think that this sort of parish pump politics is probably the one reason why our politicians are not taken seriously on the "national stage".
I happened to be driving for most of today and listened to various comentaries/discussions on the Wallace saga.
Whilst there was plenty of abhorrence and gnashing of teeth at his behaviour,the people from Wexford rallied to support him and I got the impression that if there were an election called tomorrow that he would certainly be elected.
The comment that summed it up for me was"he did a great job with Wexford youths"
FFS:mad:

Unfortunately that's the way it is in Ireland, sure wasn't XXX a great fellow, he got us the new road and didn't XXX get us the swimming pool.

All politics in Ireland is local and that's how we are where we are, a bit of rezoning here, a bit there, you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, wink wink, nudge nudge!!

IT WILL NEVER CHANGE.

Vizzy

Dead right and if you have a bit of a shady past,all the better.!

No wonder Merkel told Inda to go home empty handed last Friday.

gerryo777

Vizzy wrote: »

Dead right and if you have a bit of a shady past,all the better.!

No wonder Merkel told Inda to go home empty handed last Friday.

Good boy enda, now run along, there's a good boy!!!!

We're the laughing stock of europe! The 'thick paddies'.

gerryo777

gerryo777 wrote: »

Good boy enda, now run along, there's a good boy!!!!

We're the laughing stock of europe! The 'thick paddies'.

Speak for yourself, Gerryo

Paddy De Plasterer

This man collected VAT off people, he trousered it and did not pay the Revenue.Therefore he a liar, a tax defaulter and a cheat. Yet he is a member of PARLIAMENT. SOMETHING SURELY VERY WRONG IN THE STATE OF DENMARK. He owes over 2 million which he says he cant pay. So it is US he actually owes. Hope CAB & Gardai get involved.

lucozader

what is 2 million owed compared to the 45 million that Charlie Haughey trousered off the books

gerryo777

lucozader wrote: »

what is 2 million owed compared to the 45 million that Charlie Haughey trousered off the books

Or the almost €3 billion Sean Quinn owes us?

Not too many calling for Quinn to be jailed, CAB to be called etc etc.

I wonder why?

pwurple

Seriously, is this the defense? Charlie haughey did it so it's fine?

He should have resigned himself if he had any shred of morals or standards.

This fecker owns a goddamned vineyard in Italy, and all the money he gave the wexford youths was effectivly STOLEN from us. It's fraud on all levels. He didn't pay his suppliers, he didn't pay his tax bill, he didn't pay his employees pension contributions. He took all that money in, and frikken spent it on more and more and more property.

It is illegal to trade as an insolvent business. My father lost his business of 17 years due to a plonker like this not paying him for a big contract he had completed. It ruins families. This is far from a victimless crime.

He claims the maximum unvouched expenses as a TD and takes our taxes to fund himself. Disgraceful.

He has some brass neck still going into that dail and not resigning. He is a national embarressment.

gizmo555

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The Technical Group has finally issued a (wish-washy) statement.

Independent Group Press Release
7th June 2012

In response to media queries about Mick Wallace TD we would like to make it clear that we do not condone his behaviour, we believe he has done wrong and that he should be equally accountable as any other TD or ordinary Irish citizen.

Anyone who is not aligned to a party is automatically entitled to membership of the Technical Group under the rules of the Dail.

Finian McGrath, Shane Ross, Catherine Murphy, Ming Luke Flanagan, Thomas Pringle, Tom Fleming, Mattie McGrath, Maureen O’Sullivan and Stephen Donnelly.
**Nb: Deputy John Halligan is currently out of the country and could not be contacted for comment**

I'd love to hear from them what specific provision of Dáil standing orders makes them believe they can't exclude Wallace from their group. As far as I can see from my reading of the relevant parts (pp. 50-51), there's nothing at all to stop them doing so.

plasmaguy

Ah well at least he's prioritising family creditors

http://www.newsscoops.org/?p=686

what a pr*ck...

And he still has the use of it, that's the worst thing.

And then he gives two fingers to the state when it comes looking for VAT its owed.

expectationlost

gizmo555 wrote: »

I'd love to hear from them what specific provision of Dáil standing orders makes them believe they can't exclude Wallace from their group. As far as I can see from my reading of the relevant parts (pp. 50-51), there's nothing at all to stop them doing so.

where?

Pal

Picture the scene.
Next week Mick will get his name in the paper on the defaulters list.
That's about all that will happen.
Mick will come home after the group games.
Ireland will have done well. We won't care.
Then some unfortunate individual who evades tax will be nabbed by the Revenue/DPP and in a show of fiscal example by the judiciary to all us, he/she will feel the full rigour of this poxy excuse of a country and get sent down for 6 years.
And Wallace will head for Kiev for the quarter final.

gizmo555

expectationlost wrote: »

where?

pages 50 and 51 of the PDF linked to (that's going on the numbers printed at the bottom of the pages - in terms of how Adobe Reader numbers them, it's pages 123 & 125).

expectationlost

gizmo555 wrote: »

pages 50 and 51 of the PDF linked to (that's going on the numbers printed at the bottom of the pages - in terms of how Adobe Reader numbers them, it's pages 123 & 125).

where does it say that members of group can sanction or expel other members of a group

NIMAN

If Mick Wallace is the 'new breed' of politician we were told about after the last general election, then I say bring back the old ones.

The new ones look just as devious and corrupt as the old ones.

And as much as things change, they stay the same.

gizmo555

expectationlost wrote: »

where does it say that members of group can sanction or expel other members of a group

Where does it say what the independent TDs' statement claims, i.e., that Wallace is "automatically entitled to membership"? I'll answer that for you, it doesn't.

It also makes provision for the resignation of group members. Rather than expelling Wallace, as far as I can see, there is nothing to stop these deputies resigning from the existing group en masse and immediately setting up a new group without him.

Paddy De Plasterer

pwurple wrote: »

Seriously, is this the defense? Charlie haughey did it so it's fine?

He should have resigned himself if he had any shred of morals or standards.

This fecker owns a goddamned vineyard in Italy, and all the money he gave the wexford youths was effectivly STOLEN from us. It's fraud on all levels. He didn't pay his suppliers, he didn't pay his tax bill, he didn't pay his employees pension contributions. He took all that money in, and frikken spent it on more and more and more property.

It is illegal to trade as an insolvent business. My father lost his business of 17 years due to a plonker like this not paying him for a big contract he had completed. It ruins families. This is far from a victimless crime.

He claims the maximum unvouched expenses as a TD and takes our taxes to fund himself. Disgraceful.

He has some brass neck still going into that dail and not resigning. He is a national embarressment.

of course and he has the neck to appear on RTE sort of coming out and tellin the truth as he sees it. And he has brass neck talking about morality issues also. And he advises people not to pay the household charge. Shame on people of Wexford for putting him at head of poll. We are a laughing stock.

whippet

well after listening to Ming Flanagan on Prime Time .. I hope he falls in to a feckin' bog hole and can't get out.

Apparently Wallace is one of the nicest people Ming has ever met !!! who give a monkey's.

Ming also maintains that only the people of Wexford should have a say in Wallace's fitness to hold office.

Ivor Callaly swindled a couple of thousand in expenses and was universally lambasted by all an sundry in both houses of Kildare street.

Mick Wallace has fraudulently swindled over a million from the state and this shower of self righteous clowns in the technical group feel that as he admitted that he was a bold boy that should be the end of it. Scumbags is what they are if that is what the honestly believe, however, more than likely they are just plain cowards, afraid of the damage this might do to their little cozy group of odd balls in the dail.

Another thing to remember, this VAT that Wallace failed to pass on, would have been collected by buyers of these apartments who would have had to mortgage that VAT amount over 20/30/40 years paying interest and suffering the consequences of negative equity etc.

woodoo

What do politicians have to do for something to be a resigning issue in this country. Can you imagine if Wallace was a British MP. It would be a major major scandal and he would be gone in disgrace. Then prosecuted.

Here there will be a furore for a few days, a few disparaging pieces in the Sunday papers and then it will be all swept under the carpet. We will all move on and Mick will still be a TD collecting his salary while the taxpayer sees to his debts.

A sea change is needed in this country.

cast_iron

whippet wrote: »

Mick Wallace has fraudulently swindled over a million from the state and this shower of self righteous clowns in the technical group feel that as he admitted that he was a bold boy that should be the end of it.

But he didn't swindle it really though, did he?
I mean, his company didn't actually have the €1.4m to start with due to trading difficulties.
Yes, he didn't declare it, that's not to say he had it but just didn't bother paying it.

plasmaguy

He can dress it up any way he likes, but it was still wrong.

He had plenty of assets at the time including his Italian getaway.

Why not sell those and plough the money into the company instead and keep it afloat that way and pay off the VAT at the time?

I have the height of sympathy for builders and tradesmen who are litterly on the breadline and don't have Italian getaways and pet projects like Wexford Youths and all that sh*te.

I've no time for Mick Wallace who lived the high life and like all the other developers based on a bubble which he was partly to blame for.

If he made an effort to sell his assets and hand the money to Revenue, fair enough. He made no such effort, instead he hid behind bankrupcy and insolvency laws.

beeftotheheels

cast_iron wrote: »

But he didn't swindle it really though, did he?
I mean, his company didn't actually have the €1.4m to start with due to trading difficulties.
Yes, he didn't declare it, that's not to say he had it but just didn't bother paying it.

Actually, not paying (or being able to pay) is not the offence. Knowingly filing the incorrect return, is, which he's already admitted to the press.

The offence is under the Taxes Consolidation Act s1078 for which the maximum jail terms are 12 months for a summary conviction and 5 years on indictment (or, in the alternative fines of €5,000 for a summary conviction or €126,970 on indictment).

whippet

cast_iron wrote: »

But he didn't swindle it really though, did he?
I mean, his company didn't actually have the €1.4m to start with due to trading difficulties.
Yes, he didn't declare it, that's not to say he had it but just didn't bother paying it.

what are you on about, he collected the VAT from his customers and failed to pass it on to the revenue ... whatever the mechanics of it is .. that is the reality.

If his business was failing to the extent that he had to make a fraudulent declaration of VAT to the tune of a million quid .. he should have stopped trading at that stage ... the business wasn't viable ...

cast_iron

beeftotheheels wrote: »

Actually, not paying (or being able to pay) is not the offence. Knowingly filing the incorrect return, is, which he's already admitted to the press.

Oh, I know that. What I'm saying is that whether he filled his returns in correctly or not, the revenue wasn't getting its money.

whippet wrote: »

what are you on about, he collected the VAT from his customers and failed to pass it on to the revenue ... whatever the mechanics of it is .. that is the reality.

Business doesn't work quite to black and white in reality.

If his business was failing to the extent that he had to make a fraudulent declaration of VAT to the tune of a million quid .. he should have stopped trading at that stage ... the business wasn't viable ...

Agreed.

whippet

cast_iron wrote: »

Business doesn't work quite to black and white in reality.

i'm aware of that, but the fact is that the money collected in VAT from his customers was never his .. that is why it is such a serious offense and should be treated as was the Garlic man and the other lad in Limerick who was dickeying up invoices for the VAT man too ...

Cookie_Monster

woodoo wrote: »

What do politicians have to do for something to be a resigning issue in this country.

It's not about resigning, which is a cop out, get to keep all the benefits etc. He should be sacked with no entitlements. Any issues that ever arise the worst that seems to happen to a TD etc is resigning with all the perks and that it. It's not a punishment in the slightest and it's an affront to everyone.

plasmaguy

It's hard to take someone like Wallace seriously when he talks about government cutbacks.

Mick, when people don't pay their taxes in full, cutbacks are inevitable.

Tipp Man

I thought Vincent Browne was an absolute disgrace tonight the way he completely sidestepped dealing with his buddy mick.

Motorist

Vinny B seems to Wallaces best friend. He couldn't stand any criticism of Wallace on his show tonight.

Also Wallace has been on his show a bit too frequently in the past without ever being put through the ringer like every government party member is.

Dave!

Mick has no credibility after this. He might as well resign, everything he's quoted as saying for the rest of his time in the Dail is going to be qualified with "tax cheat Mick Wallace", etc. There's just no point in him being there anymore, only that he needs a job.

And that statement released by his lefty Dail colleagues shows that for all their bluster and outrage at the cronyism and lack of integrity of the major parties, they're the exact same! They'll protect their own, and look after their pals. If they had any integrity or took their positions seriously, they'd say "f*ck personal relationships, I'm elected for a reason", and they'd lambaste Mick Wallace as strongly as they would a government politican.

Have any independents come out strongly against him?