More Revenue Shenanigans from Mick Wallace

JustinDee

Aw bless 'im.
He made it to Poland for the soccer, the poor fella.

Laminations

K-9 wrote: »

Wallace isn't the first to confess and commit tax fraud, indeed many even didn't confess and they didn't get prosecuted or arrested.

I've no problem with Wallace getting prosecuted, but I want that to become the standard for these offences, not some example that isn't followed through on, or because some don't like his politics.

people aren't asking for some new standard. We want the standard that the public are held against to be applied here - and that standard is prison

I don't doubt that Mick Wallace is a nice personable fellow but the ULA and his buddies in the Dail need to separate their feelings for Mick from their views of his behaviour, behaviour which needs to be punished

Describing Mr Begley, with an address at Woodlock, Redgap, Rathcoole, as a “success story” and an “asset” to the country, Judge Nolan said: “It gives me no joy at all to jail a decent man.”
However, he added that Mr Begley had engaged in a “grave” and “excessive” tax evasion scheme.
He added that while the import tax on garlic “may or may not” be excessive, this was a question for the Oireachtas to decide and not individuals.
The judge also noted Mr Begley’s generosity in donating money to charities which was highlighted by his Counsel.
But he said he had to impose a significant jail term because such offences are hard to uncover and therefore the only effective deterrence is a long sentence..

That was for 1.6 million where the culprit had paid it back in full and made charitable donations. Mick swindled the Revenue for 2.1 million and can't pay it back in his lifetime. You don't get to stay out of jail and stay on as a TD if we are expecting standards. He isn't being made an example any more than Begley was.

expectationlost

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Not how I recall it, but if you have a source I can read that would be helpful.

As I recall Anglo lent money to a golden circle of 10 individuals to invest in their shares. I thought this was an infraction of the Companies Acts, the DPP did not (after investigation by the Garda fraud squad).

Quinn Insurance was put into Administration by the Central Bank (not the same meaning as an Administration in UK insolvency law) so that it could not be used to prop up an ailing group of companies - the danger being that it too would be sucked into insolvency.

Insurance tycoon Sean Quinn has been hit with a record €3.4m fine and forced to resign over breaches in industry regulations.

http://www.herald.ie/news/quinn-fined-34m-and-forced-to-quit-1510286.html

K-9

Laminations wrote: »

people aren't asking for some new standard. We want the standard that the public are held against to be applied here - and that standard is prison

Do you know of any examples where a tax defaulter declared their liability, after notification of a Revenue Audit, and still got sent to prison? I don't, you seem to have evidence it is standard procedure.

K-9

Laminations wrote: »

That was for 1.6 million where the culprit had paid it back in full and made charitable donations. Mick swindled the Revenue for 2.1 million and can't pay it back in his lifetime. You don't get to stay out of jail and stay on as a TD if we are expecting standards. He isn't being made an example any more than Begley was.

Btw that was tampering with invoices and purposefully misrepresenting goods to evade tax. Under-declaring tax just isn't taken as seriously, for whatever reason. Look at any of the tax defaulters lists published quarterly and most cases are under-declarations of VAT, PAYE, Life Assurance premiums etc. It is very rare these cases are punished by a prison sentence, it is far from standard to impose a custodial sentence.

gerryo777

JustinDee wrote: »

Aw bless 'im.
He made it to Poland for the soccer, the poor fella.

Him and seanie fitz, eh?

gerryo777

K-9 wrote: »

Btw that was tampering with invoices and purposefully misrepresenting goods to evade tax. Under-declaring tax just isn't taken as seriously, for whatever reason. Look at any of the tax defaulters lists published quarterly and most cases are under-declarations of VAT, PAYE, Life Assurance premiums etc. It is very rare these cases are punished by a prison sentence, it is far from standard to impose a custodial sentence.

Apart from costing us even more money, what exactly would a prison sentence for this defaulter achieve?

I don't think it would act as a deterrent.

From the very top in this country we reward failure/corruption/cheating/cute hoorism.

It's the way we are, it'll never change.:(

Laminations

K-9 wrote: »

Do you know of any examples where a tax defaulter declared their liability, after notification of a Revenue Audit, and still got sent to prison? I don't, you seem to have evidence it is standard procedure.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2012/0608/1224317501553.html

Some snippets:

Under-declaration of VAT is an offence under section 1078 of the Taxes Consolidation Act, 1997.

People are guilty of a criminal offence under the Act if they “knowingly or wilfully deliver any incorrect return, statement or accounts or knowingly or wilfully furnish any incorrect information in connection with any tax”.

He under-declared a VAT liability of €1,418,894 on the sale of apartments. Interest amounted to €289,146 with penalties reaching €425,668, giving a total of €2,133,708. The fact Mr Wallace is now unable to pay the sum the company owes will influence Revenue on whether to pursue him through the courts.

Revenue has a “prosecutions admissions committee” that reviews serious tax or customs cases with a view to prosecutions.

1. Its main consideration is the strength of the available admissible evidence. Other considerations include:

2. Whether the offender has paid the money owed, including interest and penalties.

3. The level of disclosure made by the offender and the level of co-operation offered.

4. The period elapsed since the offence was committed, with historical cases much more difficult to prove.

5. The length and cost of a trial, and how that cost compares to the sum at the centre of the case.

6. The level of culpability and experience of the person at the centre of the case.

7. The need to set out deterrence for a person to offend in the future and for others to comply with the tax laws.

Now Mick should be pursued through the courts for every one of those points. Maybe one could argue for him on point 3 but he really only cooperated when caught. Point 7 is especially important and if it was an influence in the Begley case of 1.6 million which was repaid it needs then Wallace needs to be pursued as a deterrent for people who think they can underdeclare and not pay and get off unscathed because they had a cry in the Dail

Laminations

@K-9

Though from the end of the article it says

Traditionally, Revenue has opted to pursue those guilty of tax offences by pursuing them for the money they owe rather than through the courts to secure criminal prosecutions. The latter approach is often seen as time-consuming and resource-intensive, with the courts rarely imposing custodial sentences. Financially pursuing those who have not paid their taxes has always been seen as more beneficial to the State.

Though a lot of those concerns would be mitigated by the public admission of guilt and the precedent set in the Begley case. And the fact that financially pursuing him is pointless.

Laminations

gerryo777 wrote: »

Apart from costing us even more money, what exactly would a prison sentence for this defaulter achieve?

He'd lose his seat in the Dail. We'd cease to have a tax cheat sit in our house of representatives

gerryo777

Laminations wrote: »

He'd lose his seat in the Dail. We'd cease to have a tax cheat sit in our house of representatives

We would still have terrorists, corrupted politicians, FF ministers of the last 3 governments, general gombeen men and women and incompetent fools there though.......... but no tax cheats!

K-9

Laminations wrote: »

@K-9

Though from the end of the article it says



Though a lot of those concerns would be mitigated by the public admission of guilt and the precedent set in the Begley case. And the fact that financially pursuing him is pointless.

I'm just getting at the impression given by some on these threads that Wallace is getting away without a prison sentence, or treated differently to the usual.

Laminations wrote: »

He'd lose his seat in the Dail. We'd cease to have a tax cheat sit in our house of representatives

Tbh, I'm more concerned with him misleading the public a couple of weeks ago. He said he voluntarily declared the liability, as if he came clean under no pressure. Turns out it was only after notification of a Revenue Audit which would have found the under-declaration.

Stabshauptmann

gerryo777 wrote: »

We would still have terrorists

I was waiting for that one.
We have people who have gone through the due process of this state, or our neighbours (investigated, prosecuted, convicted, imprisoned, released - though not all steps applied to all the people you refer to. Not all were convicted, but more upsetting, not all were prosecuted or convicted before being imprisoned). If you don't like the law, campaign to have it changed.

corrupted politicians, FF ministers of the last 3 governments, general gombeen men and women and incompetent fools there though.......... but no tax cheats!

Corruption and incompetence are harder to prove (the millions spent on tribunals show this). What we have here is a straight forward open and shut case.

gerryo777

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

I was waiting for that one.
We have people who have gone through the due process of this state, or our neighbours (investigated, prosecuted, convicted, imprisoned, released - though not all steps applied to all the people you refer to. Not all were convicted, but more upsetting, not all were prosecuted or convicted before being imprisoned). If you don't like the law, campaign to have it changed.



Corruption and incompetence are harder to prove (the millions spent on tribunals show this). What we have here is a straight forward open and shut case.

That's ok then.

Stabshauptmann

Glad we agree.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Good to see the emotional scarecrow man had his trip to Poland. I hope it eased his worried mind for a couple of days.

creedp

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Good to see the emotional scarecrow man had his trip to Poland. I hope it eased his worried mind for a couple of days.

Im sure he was in good and plentiful company with his bust not able to pay what they owe kin. Its amazing how these guys who owe millions which they can't pay back but get earn rent from the State for occupying their properties plus a cool couple of €'000 to 'manage their failed portfolios can continue to enjoy the high life while the ordinary Joe's of society have to cop on and bend over!!

Laminations

K-9 wrote: »

Btw that was tampering with invoices and purposefully misrepresenting goods to evade tax. Under-declaring tax just isn't taken as seriously, for whatever reason. Look at any of the tax defaulters lists published quarterly and most cases are under-declarations of VAT, PAYE, Life Assurance premiums etc. It is very rare these cases are punished by a prison sentence, it is far from standard to impose a custodial sentence.

I'd imagine the defence in most of those cases is ignorance or accidental error . Mick Wallace the tax cheat admitted to knowingly submitting false reports so he kept the tax his company collected. That is 'tampering with invoices documents and purposefully misrepresenting goods to evade tax'

Laminations

From his failing company which was withholding from Revenue taxes collected, he upped his salary and that of his son and he sold the completed properties to family members (with no disclosure as to whether a deal was done or if they were gifted incurring CGT)

take everything

Reading about the technical group falling out overp this just reminds me what a sorry state politics is in Ireland. The greatest difference in "Ideology" with this lot seems to be about whether a tax cheat gets to stay or go. There'll be Wallacist and anti-Wallacist splinter groups next.

paulaa

We have been moaning for years in this country about politicians getting away dishonesty and corruption. I'm amazed that some are still trying to make excuses for Wallace. Yes hes has done a lot for youth but now it seems like the people are actually paying for his largesse .

imo there should be zero tolerance with any public representative that breaks the laws that everyone else has to comply with. They should be upholding those laws and showing good example.

I refuse to tolerate this nod and wink style politics in this country any longer and I hope Shatter's new bill goes someway to stamping out the "cute hoorism" and dishonesty that has been tolerated for far too long.

MadsL

take everything wrote: »

Reading about the technical group falling out overp this just reminds me what a sorry state politics is in Ireland. The greatest difference in "Ideology" with this lot seems to be about whether a tax cheat gets to stay or go. There'll be Wallacist and anti-Wallacist splinter groups next.

If they ban Tshirts and jeans maybe the Wallace followers could paint their faces pink?

Trick of the Tail

It's a good job Wallace wasn't doing something serious, like the guy in the UK who was falsely declaring garlic as apples in order to evade duty, or he'd have got 6 years in the clink that that guy did.

I don't understand. Wallace has publicly admitted breaking the law. Why hasn't a prosecution been instituted?

A.

Tipp Man

alinton wrote: »

It's a good job Wallace wasn't doing something serious, like the guy in the UK who was falsely declaring garlic as apples in order to evade duty, or he'd have got 6 years in the clink that that guy did.

I don't understand. Wallace has publicly admitted breaking the law. Why hasn't a prosecution been instituted?

A.

Garlic man was Irish and that was an Irish sentence imposed on him

celticcrash

alinton wrote: »

It's a good job Wallace wasn't doing something serious, like the guy in the UK who was falsely declaring garlic as apples in order to evade duty, or he'd have got 6 years in the clink that that guy did.

I don't understand. Wallace has publicly admitted breaking the law. Why hasn't a prosecution been instituted?

A.[/QUOTE

Untouchables and dont they know it, thats why they give the public the 2 finger salute.