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Atheism to defeat religion by 2038?

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    #872
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    I've heard a dozen versions of what atheism means, they range from strong atheism (no God) to weak atheism (could be, but I don't believe at present) to agnostic (I don't know), to "I don't refer to myself as atheist or agnostic"

    It's perfectly possible to discuss atheism without getting bogged down and side tracked in personal individual beliefs / non beliefs.

    Regardless of what you or I personally believe, I'm looking for evidence or an argument for atheism, a theist can give me one if they want, I don't particularly mind what anyones personal belief is, I'm intrested in the subject.

    Octagon, can you give me evidence or, at the very least, a good argument to back up your stance?


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    #873
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    ScumLord wrote: »
    No, as usual you've dodged the point or just failed to actually read what I typed. I never said anything about atheism in that post. I said the story of god can be traced from it's inception right up to today. The concept didn't exist before people made him up.

    Grand, but how does that prove God does not exist ? He could still exist if people never existed.


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    #874
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Opticom wrote: »
    Regardless of what you or I personally believe, I'm looking for evidence or an argument for atheism, a theist can give me one if they want, I don't particularly mind what anyones personal belief is, I'm intrested in the subject.
    Your not accepting any ones reason for not believing in god, you continue to hind behind a logical fallacy. If you do not believing in god your position is atheism. That's all there is to it. It's a descriptive term not a believe structure.


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    #875
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Opticom wrote: »
    Grand, but how does that prove God does not exist ? He could still exist if people never existed.
    How?


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    #876
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    shizz wrote: »
    Octagon, can you give me evidence or, at the very least, a good argument to back up your stance?

    I've heard all the counter arguments for and against theism

    I'm looking for evidence or an argument for atheism, have you got any ?


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    #877
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    We're looking for evidence that you're not simple. Have you got any?


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    #878
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    ScumLord wrote: »
    How?

    Lots of things existed before man and continue to exist.


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    #879
    Bannasidhe
    Registered Users Posts: 19,219 ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Opticom wrote: »
    Lots of things existed before man and continue to exist.

    Do you have any evidence to support that claim?


    :pac:


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    #880
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    I've heard all the counter arguments for and against theism

    I'm looking for evidence or an argument for atheism, have you got any ?

    So this is your argument to your stance? Well guess what? It's atheism's as well. Well done. You are an atheist.


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    #881
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Opticom wrote: »
    Grand, but how does that prove God does not exist ? He could still exist if people never existed.

    So could the flying spaghetti monster


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    #882
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Do you have any evidence to support that claim?

    Apart from Planets, stars, rocks, mammals etc ?


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    #883
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Opticom wrote: »
    Lots of things existed before man and continue to exist.
    That's not an answer to my question, it's more dodging.


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    #884
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    shizz wrote: »
    So this is your argument to your stance? Well guess what? It's atheism's as well. Well done. You are an atheist.

    It's irelevant what I am.

    Any evidence or good arguments for atheism ?


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    #885
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    It's irelevant what I am.

    Any evidence or good arguments for atheism ?

    My point was it is acceptable for you to say that your stance is due to you having looked at the arguments for theism yet, presumably, rejecting them.
    But you seem to not think it is suitable for atheism?


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    #886
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    ScumLord wrote: »
    That's not an answer to my question, it's more dodging.

    If it was a genuine question, I'm sure you'll have no trouble asking it again


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    #887
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Opticom wrote: »
    It's irelevant what I am.

    Any evidence or good arguments for atheism ?

    The burden of proof is on religious believers, not atheists


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    #888
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    old hippy wrote: »
    The burden of proof is on religious believers, not atheists

    Blah blah the absence of evidence is not evidence for absence blah blah

    Just saving you the bother Octagon.


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    #889
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    old hippy wrote: »
    The burden of proof is on religious believers, not atheists

    For theistic arguments and atheists for counter theistic arguments, but I'm looking for evidence or a good argument for atheism.


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    #890
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Opticom wrote: »
    For theistic arguments and atheists for counter theistic arguments, but I'm looking for evidence or a good argument for atheism.

    There are none. Its just a conversation that goes backwards and forwards. Nobody wins .


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    #891
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Opticom wrote: »
    For theistic arguments and atheists for counter theistic arguments, but I'm looking for evidence or a good argument for atheism.

    It frees up a lot of time to concentrate on stuff that matters


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    #892
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Opticom wrote: »
    Any proof for atheism so ?

    Yes. Its the normal state till god is proved. Since god hasn't been proven, that's proof for atheism.


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    #893
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    A version of agument no. 2 above.
    Theists do not have one belief system, Theism a belief that at least one deity, of whatever version, can exist. That's it. You can be a theist and have no other belief than that.

    incorrect, theists believe that at least one deity, of whatever version, DOES exist. if they simply think that it CAN exist, but don't necessarily believe it does, then they are agnostic
    Opticom wrote: »
    So by that exact rational where's your proof for atheism ? or even evidence, or even a good argument ? The rest of you post is about how the existance of 'x', a different entitiy, must be equivalent to God, back to a version of argument no. 2 again.
    correct, the rest of my post is about that, because they're the same thing. simply changing x to god doesnt change anything

    proving there's no god is like proving that i can't read your mind


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    #894
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Helix wrote: »
    proving there's no god is like proving that i can't read your mind

    Poor analogy. Optimus is hilariously predictable.


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    #895
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Yes. Its the normal state till god is proved. Since god hasn't been proven, that's proof for atheism.

    and you're back round again to the logical fallacy that absence of proof is proof, and that absence of evidence is evidence.


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    #896
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Helix wrote: »
    incorrect, theists believe that at least one deity, of whatever version, DOES exist. if they simply think that it CAN exist, but don't necessarily believe it does, then they are agnostic


    correct, the rest of my post is about that, because they're the same thing. simply changing x to god doesnt change anything

    proving there's no god is like proving that i can't read your mind

    I always knew there was no proof for atheism, but the question remains, have you any evidence or a even a good argument for atheism ?


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    #897
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    and you're back round again to the logical fallacy that absence of proof is proof

    Since atheism is lack of belief then a lack of proof is proof for atheism. Want me to spell it out in your alphabetty spaghetti?


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    #898
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    shizz wrote: »
    Since atheism is lack of belief then a lack of proof is proof for atheism. Want me to spell it out in your alphabetty spaghetti?

    Sure, if you have the first ever proof for atheism, fire away, but I'm not even looking for that, evidence or a good argument foratheism will do.


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    #899
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Yes. Its the normal state till god is proved. Since god hasn't been proven, that's proof for atheism.
    Opticom wrote: »
    and you're back round again to the logical fallacy that absence of proof is proof, and that absence of evidence is evidence.
    HAHA! You've been Opticom'd Paparazzo. This is like a word game where you have to give your answer without using certain words.

    Opticom wrote: »
    I always knew there was no proof for atheism, but the question remains, have you any evidence or a even a good argument for atheism ?
    This is the logical fallacy. You can't prove atheism because there's nothing to prove. Then you confuse proof with an argument for. They're two completely different things. I could be for something and not require any proof but I can be for something because of a lack of proof too.


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    #900
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm looking for a good argumement for atheism.

    i gave you one

    like god, there's no actual proof that there's not at least one invisible car on the road. however none of us refuse to cross the road in case that invisible car DOES exist and hits us, which would surely be the most sensible thing to do, given that we can't disprove the existence of invisible cars. however, we can take a step back and realise that even though there's a minuscule chance of them existing, it's far too ridiculous an idea to actually give any consideration to, so we instead decide that when the road looks clear, it's safe to cross - we don't need to give consideration to our chances of being run over by an invisible car

    however, like with god, if someone can actually prove that invisible cars are out there with something other than a story from an old book about invisible cars, then people will change their views

    i personally do not believe in god because, from my experience, there's not a single shred of credible evidence that a deity exists. i do accept, however, that i don't know or understand everything, and there is a minuscule chance that a god, or gods, may actually exist. that chance is just so tiny, so far as i can see, that it's not worth considering as being possible

    for example, it's scientifically possible that you can run through a solid surface - straight through without making any contact at all - but the chances of every atom in your body ACTUALLY missing every atom in the wall are so tiny that we all just accept that it's not going to happen

    there's very little that's actually impossible, being sensible is recognising that there's a threshold where things are so unlikely that they may only be able to occur once, at a single point in the universe for a fraction of a second that they can be discounted as not being real

    you're continually asking for proof of atheism. how do you go about your day with that mentality?

    are you not terrified that the atoms in your body will fuse with those in your chair and you'll be stuck as a man-chair for the rest of your life? doesn't it worry you that a piece of rogue space debris will smash through your head, killing you instantly if you step outside? do animals scare you because they might, at any point, attempt to savage you? are you afraid of walking in case you step in such a way that the balance in your leg gets thrown off and your ligaments snap, sending your shin up through your knee?

    do you want undeniable proof that none of those things can happen? because, you know, there is no undeniable proof that they won't. they're all possible, they're just a touch unlikely - although far less unlikely than an all powerful being creating the universe as we know it on the law of averages


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    #901
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    Opticom wrote: »
    Sure, if you have the first ever proof for atheism, fire away, but I'm not even looking for that, evidence or a good argument foratheism will do.

    Because the gods were created in man's own evidence. There is not one shred of evidence for the existence of a deity.

    And it would put a stop to endless, circular and quite frankly, tedious threads like this.

    It also might signify a quantum leap in the maturity of reasoning in mankind.


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