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Atheism to defeat religion by 2038?

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    #902
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Opticom wrote: »
    if you have the first ever proof for atheism
    Can you please stap saying this, it sounds utterly stupid. You're asking for proof of the existence of atheism! And it obviously does exist.

    If you're asking why others believe there is no god, we've given our answers.

    If you're looking for an argument as to why people should believe atheists, we've also given our answers.

    If you can't comprehend any of the valid answers then just leave!


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    #903
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    old hippy wrote: »
    Because the gods were created in man's own evidence. There is not one shred of evidence for the existence of a deity.

    Evidence meaning there was an investigation :confused:


  • Options
    #904
    old hippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,441 ✭✭✭old hippy


    A man didn’t understand how televisions work, and was convinced that there must be lots of little men inside the box, manipulating images at high speed. An engineer explained to him about high frequency modulations of the electromagnetic spectrum, about transmitters and receivers, about amplifiers and cathode ray tubes, about scan lines moving across and down a phosphorescent screen. The man listened to the engineer with careful attention, nodding his head at every step of the argument. At the end he pronounced himself satisfied. He really did now understand how televisions work. "But I expect there are just a few little men in there, aren’t there?"

    - Douglas Adams[SIZE=-1]


    [/SIZE][SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=-1]-
    [/SIZE]


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    #905
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Helix wrote: »
    i gave you one

    like god, there's no actual proof that there's not at least one invisible car on the road. however none of us refuse to cross the road in case that invisible car DOES exist and hits us, which would surely be the most sensible thing to do, given that we can't disprove the existence of invisible cars. however, we can take a step back and realise that even though there's a minuscule chance of them existing, it's far too ridiculous an idea to actually give any consideration to, so we instead decide that when the road looks clear, it's safe to cross - we don't need to give consideration to our chances of being run over by an invisible car

    however, like with god, if someone can actually prove that invisible cars are out there with something other than a story from an old book about invisible cars, then people will change their views

    Been through all this already, there is an infinite number of entities and their existence / non existence we could discuss, unless your invisible car is identical to God in all but name, (i.e. by name swapping), its not atheism, the subject under discussion. Have you any evidence or a good argument for atheism ?
    Helix wrote: »
    i personally do not believe in god because, from my experience, there's not a single shred of credible evidence that a deity exists. i do accept, however, that i don't know or understand everything, and there is a minuscule chance that a god, or gods, may actually exist. that chance is just so tiny, so far as i can see, that it's not worth considering as being possible

    for example, it's scientifically possible that you can run through a solid surface - straight through without making any contact at all - but the chances of every atom in your body ACTUALLY missing every atom in the wall are so tiny that we all just accept that it's not going to happen

    there's very little that's actually impossible, being sensible is recognising that there's a threshold where things are so unlikely that they may only be able to occur once, at a single point in the universe for a fraction of a second that they can be discounted as not being real

    you're continually asking for proof of atheism. how do you go about your day with that mentality?

    are you not terrified that the atoms in your body will fuse with those in your chair and you'll be stuck as a man-chair for the rest of your life? doesn't it worry you that a piece of rogue space debris will smash through your head, killing you instantly if you step outside? do animals scare you because they might, at any point, attempt to savage you? are you afraid of walking in case you step in such a way that the balance in your leg gets thrown off and your ligaments snap, sending your shin up through your knee?

    do you want undeniable proof that none of those things can happen? because, you know, there is no undeniable proof that they won't. they're all possible, they're just a touch unlikely - although far less unlikely than an all powerful being creating the universe as we know it on the law of averages

    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism, not proof, other posters were claiming there was proof, atheism is the subject of this thread, as for your 1001 other strawman tangent subjects above, I've no intrest in them, they can be discussed in their own thread, atheism is the subject here.


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    #906
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    Been through all this already, there is an infinite number of entities and their existence / non existence we could discuss, unless your invisible car is identical to God in all but name, (i.e. by name swapping), its not atheism, the subject under discussion. Have you any evidence or a good argument for atheism ?





    Back to "I'm actually agnostic about atheism"

    for example, it's scientifically possible that you can run through a solid surface - straight through without making any contact at all - but the chances of every atom in your body ACTUALLY missing every atom in the wall are so tiny that we all just accept that it's not going to happen

    there's very little that's actually impossible, being sensible is recognising that there's a threshold where things are so unlikely that they may only be able to occur once, at a single point in the universe for a fraction of a second that they can be discounted as not being real



    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism, not proof, other posters were claiming there was proof, that’s what the subject of this thread is, as for your 1001 other strawman tangent subjects above, I've no intrest in them, they can be discussed in their own thread, atheism is the subject here.

    I recall you saying you were leaving boards to continues your madman search for evidence towards atheism?

    Now go on, shoo.


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    #907
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Opticom wrote: »
    and you're back round again to the logical fallacy that absence of proof is proof, and that absence of evidence is evidence.

    Lets hope you never get a job in law.
    Imagine, we'd have thousands of people going to jail for murders they can't prove they didn't commit.


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    #908
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    Been through all this already, there is an infinite number of entities and their existence / non existence we could discuss, unless your invisible car is identical to God in all but name, (i.e. by name swapping), its not atheism, the subject under discussion. Have you any evidence or a good argument for atheism ?

    you're just being nonsensical now. i don't believe for one second that you're unable to understand what i'm saying, nobody is that stupid

    god and invisible cars are the same thing in this argument - completely postulated ideas with no proof for them. for some reason though you're discounting all logic and common sense by invoking this "but an invisible car isn't god" thing. yes, an invisible car IS god. they're the same thing here - they're both hypotheses with no proof for or against them, but the key thing is that because there's no proof for, you don't need to worry about finding proof against
    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism

    what better argument for atheism is there than there's no proof of the existence of a god?


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    #909
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    smash wrote: »
    Can you please stap saying this, it sounds utterly stupid. You're asking for proof of the existence of atheism! And it obviously does exist.

    If you're asking why others believe there is no god, we've given our answers.

    If you're looking for an argument as to why people should believe atheists, we've also given our answers.

    If you can't comprehend any of the valid answers then just leave!

    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism, never mind even proof, other posters started claiming proof, if you have anything new other than the same logical fallacies offered so far, post it up.


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    #910
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism, never mind even proof, other posters started claiming proof, if you have anything new other than the same logical fallacies offered so far, post it up.

    Otacon, are you a parrot?


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    #911
    Sykk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,327 ✭✭✭Sykk


    Opticom wrote: »
    have you any evidence or a even a good argument for atheism ?

    Opticom wrote: »
    I've heard all the counter arguments for and against theism

    I'm looking for evidence or an argument for atheism, have you got any ?
    Opticom wrote: »

    Any evidence or good arguments for atheism ?
    Opticom wrote: »
    a decent argument for atheism will do.
    Opticom wrote: »
    You've got evidence for atheism ? Great lets have it
    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm looking for a good argumement for atheism.
    Opticom wrote: »
    and I'm specifically looking for the arguments for atheism
    Opticom wrote: »
    Any proof for atheism so ?
    Opticom wrote: »

    Now where's your evidence, or good argument that God must be a fictional character, or could not exist before or independently of humans ?
    Opticom wrote: »

    I'm looking for an actual good argument for atheism itself.
    Opticom wrote: »
    I've heard all the arguments and counter arguments for theism, what I'm seeking for now is a good argument for atheism.
    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm genuinely surprised at the responses since I asked for evidence or a good argument for atheism.
    Opticom wrote: »

    So, any evidence or good argument for atheism yet ?
    Opticom wrote: »

    So anyone else ? Any evidence or good arguments for atheism ?
    Opticom wrote: »
    Grand, any evidence or a good argument for that lack of belief ?
    Opticom wrote: »

    Now any evidence for atheism ?

    What was your question?

    Please read this, carefully:
    Helix wrote: »
    i gave you one

    like god, there's no actual proof that there's not at least one invisible car on the road. however none of us refuse to cross the road in case that invisible car DOES exist and hits us, which would surely be the most sensible thing to do, given that we can't disprove the existence of invisible cars. however, we can take a step back and realise that even though there's a minuscule chance of them existing, it's far too ridiculous an idea to actually give any consideration to, so we instead decide that when the road looks clear, it's safe to cross - we don't need to give consideration to our chances of being run over by an invisible car

    however, like with god, if someone can actually prove that invisible cars are out there with something other than a story from an old book about invisible cars, then people will change their views

    i personally do not believe in god because, from my experience, there's not a single shred of credible evidence that a deity exists. i do accept, however, that i don't know or understand everything, and there is a minuscule chance that a god, or gods, may actually exist. that chance is just so tiny, so far as i can see, that it's not worth considering as being possible

    for example, it's scientifically possible that you can run through a solid surface - straight through without making any contact at all - but the chances of every atom in your body ACTUALLY missing every atom in the wall are so tiny that we all just accept that it's not going to happen

    there's very little that's actually impossible, being sensible is recognising that there's a threshold where things are so unlikely that they may only be able to occur once, at a single point in the universe for a fraction of a second that they can be discounted as not being real

    you're continually asking for proof of atheism. how do you go about your day with that mentality?

    are you not terrified that the atoms in your body will fuse with those in your chair and you'll be stuck as a man-chair for the rest of your life? doesn't it worry you that a piece of rogue space debris will smash through your head, killing you instantly if you step outside? do animals scare you because they might, at any point, attempt to savage you? are you afraid of walking in case you step in such a way that the balance in your leg gets thrown off and your ligaments snap, sending your shin up through your knee?

    do you want undeniable proof that none of those things can happen? because, you know, there is no undeniable proof that they won't. they're all possible, they're just a touch unlikely - although far less unlikely than an all powerful being creating the universe as we know it on the law of averages

    Now please...


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    #912
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Opticom wrote: »
    I'm asking for evidence or a good argument for atheism
    evidence for atheism? Why are you looking for evidence of a belief when you simply can not provide any for your own beliefs?

    A good argument for atheism? How about not wanting to have blind faith in something which has no solid basis!


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    #913
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    Lets hope you never get a job in law.
    Imagine, we'd have thousands of people going to jail for murders they can't prove they didn't commit.

    Yet by your same rational, theists are guilty of an incorrect belief.

    Proof beyond all reasonable doubt is required for guilt, something atheism does not have.

    But never mind proof for atheism yet, have you even a good argument or evidence for atheism?


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    #914
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    smash wrote: »
    A good argument for atheism? How about not wanting to have blind faith in something which has no solid basis!

    Like atheism ? Any evidence or good argument for it yet ?


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    #915
    Sarky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 31,967 ✭✭✭✭Sarky


    Can't provide proof you didn't kill that hooker, eh?


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    #916
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    Like atheism ? Any evidence or good argument for it yet ?

    I would ask for proof that you're not an intelligent person but I'm sure I'd get the proof in your next post.


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    #917
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    Yet by your same rational, theists are guilty of an incorrect belief.

    in the view of atheists, all theists are wrong

    in the view of all theists, all other theists who believe differently are wrong

    therefore both sides posit the same thing, both against each other and, in the case of theists, against other theists


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    #918
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    Like atheism ? Any evidence or good argument for it yet ?

    you dont need proof do disprove something that doesnt have any proof to begin with


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    #919
    Pushtrak
    Registered Users Posts: 4,640 ✭✭✭Pushtrak


    And now for something completely different...
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE


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    #920
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Opticom wrote: »
    smash wrote: »
    A good argument for atheism? How about not wanting to have blind faith in something which has no solid basis!

    Like atheism ? Any evidence or good argument for it yet ?
    There is no solid basis for a belief in gods, any so called evidence to support the belief has been obliterated. This in turn means there is a solid basis for atheist belief. This in turn means that people are not willing to put faith into a belief in god. It's simple... Just like your closed little mind :)


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    #921
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    opticom, let's look at 2 statements

    1) opticom steals money

    and

    2) opticom does not steal money

    if two people were to each make one of those statements, which one of them would require proof to back it up? would it be the person claiming that you steal money, or would it be the person claiming that you do not steal money?

    even though they're two opposite claims, until there is proof for statement 1, the default stance is therefore statement 2


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    #922
    joseph brand
    Registered Users Posts: 4,537 ✭✭✭joseph brand


    Opticom wrote: »
    Lots of things existed before man and continue to exist.

    No need to go into so much detail. :rolleyes:


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    #923
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,397 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Opticom wrote: »
    Yet by your same rational, theists are guilty of an incorrect belief.
    They are
    Opticom wrote: »
    Proof beyond all reasonable doubt is required for guilt, something atheism does not have.
    We have that. Zero proof of a god. Therefore athiesm is correct.
    Opticom wrote: »
    But never mind proof for atheism yet, have you even a good argument or evidence for atheism?
    We do. As I said, it's the default position till god is proven. Until you prove god exists, atheism is correct.

    Why do I bother? This has been pointed out 100 times and you ignore it (or can't understand it) all the time.


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    #924
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Helix wrote: »
    you dont need proof do disprove something that doesnt have any proof to begin with

    like atheism for example ?
    smash wrote: »
    There is no solid basis for a belief in gods, any so called evidence to support the belief has been obliterated. This in turn means there is a solid basis for atheist belief. This in turn means that people are not willing to put faith into a belief in god. It's simple... Just like your closed little mind :)

    Absence of evidence is not evidence
    Helix wrote: »
    opticom, let's look at 2 statements

    1) opticom steals money

    and

    2) opticom does not steal money

    if two people were to each make one of those statements, which one of them would require proof to back it up? would it be the person claiming that you steal money, or would it be the person claiming that you do not steal money?

    even though they're two opposite claims, until there is proof for statement 1, the default stance is therefore statement 2

    Absence of evidence is not evidence
    Paparazzo wrote: »
    They are

    We have that. Zero proof of a god. Therefore athiesm is correct.

    We do. As I said, it's the default position till god is proven. Until you prove god exists, atheism is correct.

    Why do I bother? This has been pointed out 100 times and you ignore it (or can't understand it) all the time.

    Absence of evidence is not evidence


    Now, any real evidence or good arguments for atheism yet ?


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    #925
    Helix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17,661 ✭✭✭✭Helix


    Opticom wrote: »
    like atheism for example ?

    no, not like atheism. atheism doesn't assert that something exists, there is no onus for proof on it. atheism in itself is the belief that there is no evidence that god exists, followed by the assertion that if there is no evidence, there is no merit in believing in god. it is not a belief, it is a lack thereof

    atheists do not believe there is no god, atheists believe that there is no proof under which to believe that there is a god
    Opticom wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence

    correct, but there doesn't need to be any evidence as atheism does not make any claims other than there is no evidence for claims to the contrary
    Opticom wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence

    correct, but there doesn't need to be any evidence as atheism does not make any claims other than there is no evidence for claims to the contrary
    Opticom wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence

    correct, but there doesn't need to be any evidence as atheism does not make any claims other than there is no evidence for claims to the contrary
    Opticom wrote: »
    Now, any real evidence or good arguments for atheism yet ?

    atheism doesn't assert that something exists, there is no onus for proof on it. atheism in itself is the belief that there is no evidence that god exists, followed by the assertion that if there is no evidence, there is no merit in believing in god. it is not a belief, it is a lack thereof

    we can both do this. the difference is that there's a semblance of coherency to what i'm posting compared with the absolute drivel that you're posting

    do you apply that same logic to everything?


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    #926
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    Opticom wrote: »
    Absence of evidence is not evidence
    I swear if I hear this one more fkn time.... :mad:

    Absence of evidence means there is no evidence. There is NO evidence to say your god exists. That is what atheism is... A lack of belief because of that fact!

    Are you honestly that brain dead? How have you not been banned for trolling? Or even spamming? All your answers are the same!


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    #927
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    Helix wrote: »
    atheists believe that there is no proof under which to believe that there is a god

    That it in itself is a definite claim, and like any other definite claim it requires proof to be valid. If you have no proof, at least offer evidence or in the absence of evidence at least offer an argument for atheism. Have you examined all the proof that could possibly exist ? How do you even know you have ?
    Helix wrote: »
    atheism in itself is the belief that there is no evidence that god exists, followed by the assertion that if there is no evidence, there is no merit in believing in god. it is not a belief, it is a lack thereof

    And there we are straight back round to the same logical fallacy mistake that absence of evidence is evidence.

    Now, other than yet another version of the same old logical fallacy, which is an invalid argument, any evidence or good argument for atheism ?


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    #928
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    That it in itself is a definite claim, and like any other definite claim it requires proof to be valid.

    Yup exactly. Which the claim of the existence of God lacks and by extension, is why there is atheism.


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    #929
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    smash wrote: »
    Absence of evidence means there is no evidence.

    Logical fallacy, or you can try to prove that claim if you want.


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    #930
    shizz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,506 ✭✭✭shizz


    Opticom wrote: »
    Logical fallacy, or you can try to prove that claim if you want.

    How is the statement "the absence of evidence means there is no evidence" a logical fallacy? Do you know what that means? One literally means the other.


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    #931
    Opticom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 362 ✭✭Opticom


    shizz wrote: »
    Yup exactly. Which the claim of the existence of God lacks and by extension, is why there is atheism.

    Thats back to agnosticism again not atheism. Any evidence for atheism ?


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