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Atheism to defeat religion by 2038?
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No, of course not.philologos wrote: »People can be wrong in general. I'm sure you're aware, atheists can be wrong?
:pac:
But wouldn't any discovery just put the bible one step back? For instance, if the multiverse theory was to be dominant, then religious people would just say "Oh, god created many universes." Or do you think that unlikely?The point is that we should be trying to work out what is true by every and all means possible.
The bible, and how it has progressed from when written to now constantly reminds me of the Bonsai tree. Things are shedded as they become undesirable, or not matching reality. Biblical literalism, as I've already shown was dominant from the start.I'm more than aware, that I could be wrong. I don't claim to be infallible, and I have no interest in doing so
. From my POV it isn't really about that anyway. It's about whether or not God is right, or the Bible is right. I believe that there are very good reasons why people can trust the Bible in the 21st century, and there are good reasons why people can believe and trust in Jesus and the Gospel in the 21st century.
I really do wonder how successful religion would be if nobody was to teach religious practices to their children until they were mature. Not in the formative years, but after they had the proper ability to process the information. Do you suppose the same numbers of people would become religious?0 -
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Duggys Housemate wrote: »But back to the original premise. The OP's post is - typical enough of the huffington post - mere wishful thinking. The correlation between secularism and GDP is probably the reverse - i.e. some forms of secularism caused wealth in Western Europe, and probably historically an accident. Its not universal. The US is richer than it was, including the South, and is getting more religious. The Saudis are not the poorest. Dubai is fairly rich, as it goes. Increases in oil prices, which make the middle east richer, don't make them less religious.
Which leaves the birth rates. There are defections from religious families in every generation, since being Amish is boring, the question is whether it is enough to counteract the very real fact that the birth rate of the Amish is much higher than secularists. Thats a mathematical problem, which it seems, is telling the reverse of the story of the Huff Post. They also missed immigration, and the nature of immigration, which is more religious than the countries taking the immigrants. There are, after all, people worrying about the Islamification of Europe, at the same time the atheists think they are taking over. The truth is some where in between, but I think we are secularisms high point. Of the 25 % of births to foreigners in London, are they born to more, or less religious families than the preceding generation of 20-40 year olds? I say more, and more to religious families more because they breed more. Future is religious, more likely.
EDIT: Oops sorry to get back on topic. I will now revert to modern atheist argumentation.
Faith is rubbish! Green Eyed Spaghetti monster! Sky Fairies are for idiots !!
Humanity is going to make a U-turn and head back to the dark ages? Let's forget the idea of evidence, reason and common sense and go with, what we feel and what we would like. :rolleyes:
"I just feel there has to be a god".
"There must be a heaven".
"What else is there?"
These statements show the cracks in christian religion. Let's not use Pollyfilla. Let the church walls fall down, and rebuild with bricks of reason.
This the word of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
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Christianity and vampirism isn't an entirely unfounded point to bring up. You admitted you didn't even know the concept has been around for a long time. So, what credibility do you have to bring to the table? Just that it wasn't in the bible? I'd say that what was common Christian belief is an important point to consider but perhaps that isn't enough.philologos wrote: »From what I've read here, I'm not sure that atheists are better informed. Particularly when we got into discussing vampires
Revelation 16:6
for they have shed the blood of your saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink as they deserve."
Revelation 17:6
I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
Leviticus 17:11
For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one's life.
Leviticus 17:14
because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, "You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood;
Deuteronomy 12:23
But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat.
Proverbs 30:14
those whose teeth are swords and whose jaws are set with knives to devour the poor from the earth, the needy from among mankind.
Job 29:17
I broke the fangs of the wicked and snatched the victims from their teeth.
Zechariah 9:7
And I will take away his blood out of his mouth, and his abominations from between his teeth: but he that remaineth, even he, shall be for our God, and he shall be as a governor in Judah, and Ekron as a Jebusite.
Micah 7:2
The good man is perished out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net.
Lamentations 4:14
They have wandered as blind men in the streets, they have polluted themselves with blood, so that men could not touch their garments.
Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
Additions to Esther (Apocrypha) 16:5
Oftentimes also fair speech of those, that are put in trust to manage their friends' affairs, hath caused many that are in authority to be partakers of innocent blood, and hath enwrapped them in remediless calamities.
Romans Chapter 3
13: Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14: Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15: Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16: Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17: And the way of peace have they not known:
18: There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Wisdom of Solomon Chapter 12
3: For it was thy will to destroy by the hands of our fathers both those old inhabitants of thy holy land,
4: Whom thou hatedst for doing most odious works of witchcrafts, and wicked sacrifices;
5: And also those merciless murderers of children, and devourers of man's flesh, and the feasts of blood,
Chronicles 11:19
And said, My God forbid it me, that I should do this thing: shall I drink the blood of these men that have put their lives in jeopardy? for with the jeopardy of their lives they brought it. Therefore he would not drink it. These things did these three mightiest.
Maccabees (Apocrypha) 7:17
The flesh of thy saints have they cast out, and their blood have they shed round about Jerusalem, and there was none to bury them.
Proverbs 1:11
If they say, Come with us, let us lay wait for blood, let us lurk privily for the innocent without cause:
Proverbs 1:16
For their feet run to evil, and make haste to shed blood.
Proverbs 1:18
And they lay wait for their own blood; they lurk privily for their own lives.
Proverbs 6:17
A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
Proverbs 12:6
The words of the wicked are to lie in wait for blood: but the mouth of the upright shall deliver them.
Proverbs 29:10
The bloodthirsty hate the upright: but the just seek his soul.
Luke 11:50
That the blood of all the prophets, which was shed from the foundation of the world, may be required of this generation;
Luke 11:51
From the blood of Abel unto the blood of Zacharias, which perished between the altar and the temple: verily I say unto you, It shall be required of this generation.
2 Esdras (Apocrypha) 15:58
They that be in the mountains shall die of hunger, and eat their own flesh, and drink their own blood, for very hunger of bread, and thirst of water.
1 Samuel 14:32
And the people flew upon the spoil, and took sheep, and oxen, and calves, and slew them on the ground: and the people did eat them with the blood.
Samuel 14:33
Then they told Saul, saying, Behold, the people sin against the LORD, in that they eat with the blood. And he said, Ye have transgressed: roll a great stone unto me this day.
Genesis 9:5
And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.
Genesis 9:6
Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.
Genesis 42:22
And Reuben answered them, saying, Spake I not unto you, saying, Do not sin against the child; and ye would not hear? therefore, behold, also his blood is required.
Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Psalms 9:12
When he maketh inquisition for blood, he remembereth them: he forgetteth not the cry of the humble.
Psalms 16:4
Their sorrows shall be multiplied that hasten after another god: their drink offerings of blood will I not offer, nor take up their names into my lips.
Pslams 51:14
Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God, thou God of my salvation: and my tongue shall sing aloud of thy righteousness.
Hebrews 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
Numbers 11:33
And while the flesh was yet between their teeth, ere it was chewed, the wrath of the LORD was kindled against the people, and the LORD smote the people with a very great plague.
Micah 3:5
Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err, that bite with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
Mark 9:18
And wheresoever he taketh him, he teareth him: and he foameth, and gnasheth with his teeth, and pineth away: and I spake to thy disciples that they should cast him out; and they could not.
Deuteronomy 32:24
They shall be burnt with hunger, and devoured with burning heat, and with bitter destruction: I will also send the teeth of beasts upon them, with the poison of serpents of the dust.
Lamentations 2:16
All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it.
Daniel 7:5
And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.
Daniel 7:7
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.
Job 16:9
He teareth me in his wrath, who hateth me: he gnasheth upon me with his teeth; mine enemy sharpeneth his eyes upon me.
Job 41:14
Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.
Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
Psalms 35:16
With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth.
Psalms 37:12
The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
Psalms 57:4
My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.
You aren't going to impress anyone with ad homs. I hope the thread doesn't get closed. Threads evolve.Duggys Housemate wrote: »FFS, I am reporting this entire thread. I may repost the OP somewhere with adults. It is actually an interesting topic. This is plagued by morons.0 -
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This "cherry picking" is the new argument of the day I take it. This must be the third or fourth time I've seen it in about a week on boards. It is of course demonstrably false, unless you argue that over 70% of the Christian New Testament (to take the standard ecclesiastical cycle of Roman Catholicism as an example) counts as "cherry picking".
As for the rest how about some personal input?
Nope, the rest of my family range from indifferent cultural non-mass going, non-doctrine believing cultural catholics to decided atheists.
This one, perhaps somewhat but it's not a major attraction. When I'm dead I'm dead, whatever happens then will happen. No guarantees so I don't tend to concern myself with thinking about anything after death.
No. See my answer to the 'pretending to be Christian' section.
Nope not true either. Again see my answer to the first section.
No, haven't made a penny.
My apologies. I should have been clearer. A christian wouldn't have to tick all the boxes. In the points I made, there might be one or more, which is relevant. There are of course more points, but I don't see the need to spend more time on the post. I'm sure you get the jist. Praise be. 0 -
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See, education half worked.philologos wrote: »Surprise, surprise neither do I
There's plenty of reasons, but I've still yet to ever meet one who take the bible literally like you do. Mostly they just live their lives by the cherry picked ethics thought in the bible.philologos wrote: »How do you explain the fact that highly educated people are still Christians then?
Maybe you like sci-fi and fantasy? Maybe you have a hole in your life that you need filled? You tell us...philologos wrote: »I've read the Bible from cover to cover, why amn't I an atheist?0 -
joseph brand wrote: »Humanity is going to make a U-turn and head back to the dark ages? Let's forget the idea of evidence, reason and common sense and go with, what we feel and what we would like. :rolleyes:
"I just feel there has to be a god".
"There must be a heaven".
"What else is there?"
These statements show the cracks in christian religion. Let's not use Pollyfilla. Let the church walls fall down, and rebuild with bricks of reason.
This the word of The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Jesus wept. What idiocy. FFS. Par for the course for the modern atheist. I am a non-believer myself - Jesus is not a God, God doesn't exist - and what I presented in that piece you quoted was mathematical and sociological reasons why religion would increase, and not disappear. To do with religious birth rates, and immigration.
You did not deal with this - the only post on topic in this train wreck of a thread, presumably because you are not capable of any kind of logic. Instead - assuming incorrectly that this is a debate on Christianisty, and I am a christian - you bring out the tired old tropes about spaghetti monsters, all of which are typical of the low and falling intellect of the dumber an dumber modern atheist.
I have set up a proper debate on this in the politics forum, where I reposted the exact same thing. Try post that response there, and I will report you.
Actually I will anyway. O0 -
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