Atheism to defeat religion by 2038?

Run_to_da_hills

According to the Prophecy of St Malachy Pope Benedict is the second last Pope.

The era of the Next Pope is to bring in the destruction of Rome.

I gather that this will be the end of the Catholic Church.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

prinz

bnt wrote: »

Yes, I know that. But what is a "fundamentalist atheist"? There's a whole forum of atheists here on Boards, but the only "fundamentalist" I've ever seen there was an obvious troll bunjee-ing in from the halfway-to-hell forum (#333).

In fairness I've seen plenty of alleged atheists on this site call religious types all sorts of names and insults etc not too mention the people who like to moan about things (like stamps, I've heard complaints about church bells, I've seen threads complaining that the Irish welcome of Dia Dhuit should be scrapped/changed etc) that to me approaches a type of fundamentalism.

philologos

strobe wrote: »

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full." Matt. 6:5 (via The Quadratic Equation).

I agree with your sentiment. It's a shame that you're not posting because you actually care if people follow Jesus and what He said though.

Wibbs wrote:

Even though I'm a fervent agnostic I've always had a sneaking affection for Jesus and Buddha on this score. They both despised hypocrites. I have always found it particularly interesting that the more conservative Christians tend to eschew their founders cynical eye on such matters. They have a nasty habit of quoting a parable like the good Samaritan while completely missing the bloody point the lad was making. They actually go out of their way to do so.

I think we need to define what you mean by conservative here. Personally, I'd regard focusing to what is Biblical in respect to Christianity as being seriously important, and I think we should try to listen to Jesus and indeed follow Him as He asks us to (see Mark chapter 8 for example).

Jesus doesn't give us an option in respect to Him in Scripture. Either He is Lord and we submit to His authority, or we reject Him, whether that is through religious ritual, or whether that is through hatred, or apathy. Not caring about God is the same thing as regarding Him as worthless.

Jesus also made it clear that He would die as a ransom for many (Mark 10:45), but most of us treat Jesus and His ultimate sacrifice for mankind as garbage. Christianity is based on this, we strive to live for Jesus in this world precisely because He showed us such abundant mercy through His saving death on the cross (1 John 4 for example).

Jesus is not just a "good example", or a "good teacher". Jesus is more than a good teacher, or more than a King. Jesus clearly said that He was the sovereign Son of God, the Lord, and that were are to repent and believe in the Gospel. It is that love, and that mercy that Jesus shows that motivates Christian living.

Like I said to strobe. Are you criticising because you're concerned that Christians follow Jesus? If you are, then that would be great. Or is your criticism an excuse not to follow Jesus. If so, being honest that makes the criticism hypocritical in and of itself.

By the by, I couldn't care less if people don't want to pray before a county council or a parliament meeting. I think Christianity is grassroots. It should work from the grounds up. Thankfully I've seen a lot of grassroots Christian community throughout the last year from lunchtime talks near offices in London, to literally dozens of new church communities being planted. It's an encouraging time, and we should feel encouraged to work towards the Gospel.

Opticom wrote:

Fundamentalists, and their hateful, all consuming 'love to hate' obsessions are the problem, whether it be religious fundamentalists or atheist fundamentalists.

It's funny how that word "fundamentalist" has been warped in its meaning. I prefer to use "distortionist" for those who twist Christianity to justify their own ends. Fundamentalism - which means basing ones belief on the fundamentals of the Bible, is a good thing. The word fundamentalist has been changed in its meaning in the last 50 or so years.

From my own perspective. I'm unequivocal in my desire for all people to believe and trust in Jesus.

Opticom

bnt wrote: »

Yes, I know that. But what is a "fundamentalist atheist"? There's a whole forum of atheists here on Boards, but the only "fundamentalist" I've ever seen there was an obvious troll bungee-ing in from the half-a-Beast forum (#333).

If you've been led to believe that fundamentalism, and loving to hate, is the exclusive preserve of theism, then you've been badly mislead. It's the extremists on both sides that cause the problems.

AtomicHorror

Opticom wrote: »

If you've been led to believe that fundamentalism, and loving to hate, is the exclusive preserve of theism, then you've been badly mislead. It's the extremists on both sides that cause the problems.

When was the last time someone murdered a doctor, called for a war or blew themselves up in a crowded market in the name of new atheism? Oh sorry, you're right. We do say a lot of very hurtful and disrespectful words. Definitely part of the problem.

FoxT

I thought 'twas all over bar the shoutin'....why do we have to wait till 2038?

On a more serious note, I am pleased that the church has lost its iron grip. Nevertheless I respect individual churchgoers & their right to practice what they believe.

Where it all breaks down is when people of differing beliefs get stuck into the pointscoring game.

Wattle

Since there is vast inequalities between rich and poor and probably always will be I think religious beliefs will have some legs to them for a longtime yet.

DEFTLEFTHAND

I'm impatiently waiting for those moments after death when I'll finally discover the truth. Personally I hope there is something after, I want to see my loved ones again. I don't want it just to be my body rotting in a box for eternity, that scares me.

joebstarsurfer

Will women in Ireland be allowed to drive and dress in Western clothes.

Helix

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I don't want it just to be my body rotting in a box for eternity, that scares me.

don't worry

the box will decay, just like your body, and in the blink of an eye in planetary time scales there won't be a trace of you or your grave left

DEFTLEFTHAND

Helix wrote: »

don't worry

the box will decay, just like your body, and in the blink of an eye in planetary time scales there won't be a trace of you or your grave left

But my soul will survive, it will rise up from the putrid decay and live once again, I will continue.

Helix

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

But my soul will survive, it will rise up from the putrid decay and live once again, I will continue.

And santa is bringing me a fire truck

DEFTLEFTHAND

Helix wrote: »

And santa is bringing me a fire truck

No need for that kind of dismissal dear boy, your not talking to a fellow of slow mind. Theres nothing wrong with hoping for something, I doubt you want to be worm feed either.

Wibbs

philologos wrote: »

Like I said to strobe. Are you criticising because you're concerned that Christians follow Jesus? If you are, then that would be great.

Not a concern, more an observation.

Or is your criticism an excuse not to follow Jesus. If so, being honest that makes the criticism hypocritical in and of itself.

No excuse required on my part, I simply don't believe in that sorta thing.

nozzferrahhtoo

Opticom wrote: »

As if atheist states were any different

If you think those state were a reflection of atheism then I am afraid you do not know the meaning of the word. At all. It is terribly easy to throw that old canard out. Not so easy to actually adumbrate a causal link between atheism and the things you just listed. Have at it though, I would like to see your attempt.

Those states did not replace theism with atheism. They replace theism with a state religion.

Opticom wrote: »

Fundamentalists, and their hateful, all consuming 'love to hate' obsessions are the problem, whether it be religious fundamentalists or atheist fundamentalists.

It is very easy to hide behind the word "Fundamentalism" but it is not useful, despite how readily people with no arguments to make throw it around as cover.

Clearly it matters what a person believes too. Ask yourself quite simply if you had to choose between living in an estate populated by fundamentalist Muslims.... who often use violence to silence dissent or to transport themselves to paradise.... or an estate populated by fundamentalist Jains.... people so dedicated to non violence that they drink through cheese cloth to reduce the number of creatures their drinking of water might harm.... which would people choose.

When you realize the answer is vastly towards the latter, not the former, you quickly realize that there is more to it than mere fundamentalism. As has been pointed out to you here the worst thing "fundamentalist atheists" (as you falsely label them) generally do is write books at people. If you think THAT is a problem then perhaps a thicker skin is advisable.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I doubt you want to be worm feed either.

Do not be so quick to doubt it. Some people think that the transient nature of life is what gives it it's worth and that the concept of an after life and, worse, an eternal life actually cheapens it's value.

I am well aware that this life will end and that there is currently not even a shred of an iota of a scrap of evidence, argument, data or reasons to even suggest there might be another life after it.

Far from being scarey or depressing, that knowledge actually lends value to this life being as it is the only one I have or will have.

smash

philologos, this probably goes against everything you believe but it's scientific fact. You should take a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Syi9bqfFIdY

shizz

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I'm impatiently waiting for those moments after death when I'll finally discover the truth. Personally I hope there is something after, I want to see my loved ones again. I don't want it just to be my body rotting in a box for eternity, that scares me.

Impatiently waiting? Why not just forget about it and live life to it's fullest now, instead of betting on an afterlife to enjoy.

Also, what's scary about not existing for the rest of "eternity"? We all did alright not existing before we were born. Didn't do me any harm anyway.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

But my soul will survive, it will rise up from the putrid decay and live once again, I will continue.

Ok so first of all you say you hope and now it seems to be a certainty.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

No need for that kind of dismissal dear boy, your not talking to a fellow of slow mind. Theres nothing wrong with hoping for something, I doubt you want to be worm feed either.

There isn't anything wrong with hoping I guess, but it's nice when there is a little evidence to back it up.

What is wrong with being worm food? You're body is made from molecule's which came from the ground. When you die it's time to let the cycle continue.

I'm personally gunning for a cremation and then turned into a diamond Finally I'll be worth something!

nozzferrahhtoo

shizz wrote: »

What is wrong with being worm food?

Actually, technically we already are. It is quite likely that a large number of the atoms that make up "you" at some point passed through the gut of a worm as food.

tonybodhran

Atheism will defeat religion because religion is a human made construct that makes absolutely no sense to anyone who takes any time at all to think about it in terms of the nature of the universe and the world around us in general. That does not mean that there is not a real spirituality at the core of humans, I think that eventually when the insanity of child molesting self punishing hero/meteor worshipping virgin wanting masses have subsided, then there will be an introspection by the human species accompanied with new understandings by science that there is more to us and the fantastic universe we live in than we ever thought possible. Religion may well be gone soon but probably not by 2038, it's taken thousands of years for us to get into this mess and might take us quite a while to get out. We here in Ireland seem to have woken up a little bit and shaken off the yoke to a certain extent but many of us still have a strong connection with our spiritual abusers. It reminds me of people I've worked with in social care situations who repeatedly go back to their abusing partners because they think that there is nothing else and they will be terribly alone without them and even find some form of twisted comfort in the abuse and servitude to the abuser. It's difficult to break away and look for something else that you didn't know existed in the first place. But eventually with examples from others many see the light and I think that is what is happening now all over the world albiet at a slower pace than is being talked about here.

frozenfrozen

I thought this was going to be caused by Y2K38. :[.

tonybodhran

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I thought this was going to be caused by Y2K38. :[.

Pushtrak

The New Testament isn't a reliable account.

Opticom

smash wrote: »

philologos, this probably goes against everything you believe but it's scientific fact. You should take a look.

Good video, but nothing that contradicts mainstream Christianity.

Helix

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

I doubt you want to be worm feed either.

it makes no difference to me what happens when i die as from that very point onwards ill lack the ability to exist. the i that i was will cease to be, and because of that it'll be impossible for the i that i was to even realise that the i that i was had ever existed to begin with

Pushtrak

Opticom wrote: »

Good video, but nothing that contradicts mainstream Christianity.

If we are still evolving, which we are, it provides additional proof that we aren't gods "perfect" beings. Check out the vid I posted about the New Testament for why it probably shouldn't be taken as credible.

Another story relating to preachers losing their faith.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/13/unbelieving-preachers-get-help-to-come-out-as-open-atheists/

(CNN) – Jerry DeWitt entered the ministry when he was 17, launching a 25-year career as a Pentecostal preacher. He traveled all around his home state of Louisiana, preaching and ministering wherever he could.

All these years later, DeWitt, 42, is still on the road, and now takes his message all over the United States. But the nature of that message, along with his audience, has changed dramatically.

DeWitt is now an avowed atheist, and his audiences are made up of religious “nones,” the growing number of Americans who are atheist, agnostic, humanist or just plain disinterested in identifying with a religion. Today, DeWitt preaches a gospel of disbelief.

During his speeches, he talks about the process of leaving his preacher job. “If you don’t believe, then you will be like me – you’ll suddenly find yourself where you only have two choices,” DeWitt told a group in Johnson County, Kansas, earlier this year.

“You can either be honest that you don’t believe ... or you can pretend that you do,” he said. “Which is what so many people are doing and that is called faith.”

The transition from preacher to outspoken atheist has not been easy, and DeWitt is trying to smooth the way for other former believers. He is executive director of Recovering from Religion, an organization founded in 2009. Its slogan: “Thousands of organizations will help you get INTO religion, but we’re the only one helping you OUT.”

But a relatively new effort goes a step further than his own group by focusing on helping clergy in particular. In March 2011, a coalition that includes national groups such as American Atheists, the Freedom From Religion Foundation and the Richard Dawkins Foundation helped launch the Clergy Project, which is aimed at giving doubting and atheist preachers a community in which they can talk about their disbelief.

The program's ultimate goal: to help unbelieving preachers to “come out” in real life.

smash

Opticom wrote: »

smash wrote: »

philologos, this probably goes against everything you believe but it's scientific fact. You should take a look.

Good video, but nothing that contradicts mainstream Christianity.

I never mentioned mainstream Christianity, I recommended philologos watch it to prove a point about evolution, the Adam and eve theory and the whole god created the world in 7 days bs. Which he believes in.

Opticom

Pushtrak wrote: »

If we are still evolving, which we are, it provides additional proof that we aren't gods "perfect" beings.

Which religion claims we're "perfect beings ?" Not mainstream Christianity anyway.

Pushtrak wrote: »

Check out the vid I posted about the New Testament for why it probably shouldn't be taken as credible.

I did, but disappointingly, it just yet another angry shouty atheist making yet more inaccurate claims.

Pushtrak wrote: »

Another story relating to preachers losing their faith.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/06/13/unbelieving-preachers-get-help-to-come-out-as-open-atheists/

Nothing new there, for every story about a theist who has become an atheist, I can link to a story where an atheist has become a theist pastor etc.

shizz

Opticom wrote: »

Nothing new there, for every story about a theist who has become an atheist, I can link to a story where an atheist has become a theist pastor etc.

Post one there.

Pushtrak

Opticom wrote: »

Which religion claims we're "perfect beings ?" Not mainstream Christianity anyway.

It is an attitude that has been expressed to me many times. In terms of us as a species, that is, not in terms of morality.

I did, but disappointingly, it just yet another angry shouty atheist making yet more inaccurate claims.

You trolling? He's a biblical scholar. What claims did he make that are inaccurate?

Ehrman became an Evangelical Christian as a teen. In his books, he recounts his youthful enthusiasm as a born-again, fundamentalist Christian, certain that God had inspired the wording of the Bible and protected its texts from all error.[2] His desire to understand the original words of the Bible led him to the study of ancient languages and to textual criticism. His graduate studies, however, eventually convinced him that one ought to acknowledge the contradictions in the biblical manuscripts rather than attempt to harmonize or reconcile discrepancies. He remained a liberal Christian for fifteen years but later became an agnostic after struggling with the philosophical problems of evil and suffering.[2]

Nothing new there, for every story about a theist who has become an atheist, I can link to a story where an atheist has become a theist pastor etc.

Go for it.

Opticom

shizz wrote: »

Post one there.

Oh ye of little faith.

http://www.google.ie/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22former+atheist+turned+pastor%22&oq=%22former+atheist+turned+pastor%22&aq=f&aqi=g-bK1&aql=1&gs_l=serp.3..0i8i30.8375.8542.3.8938.2.2.0.0.0.0.121.204.1j1.2.0.eish.1.0.0.ALJ74FIF7D8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=7eb960a348b01593&biw=1024&bih=626

Also one of the mods in the Christianity forum, PDN is a former atheist and is now full time Christian minister.