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Should Mick Wallace resign over his VAT 'problem'?

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    #32
    Tzar Chasm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Don't care
    bmaxi wrote: »
    Of course he should resign, I don't know why we're even having a debate about it. He deliberately and knowingly set out to defraud the state of legitimate tax revenue, money that could have been used to fund hospitals and schools. Anybody who would vote for him now would be condoning that behaviour.
    Vincent brown raised an interesting point to the smarmy fg td tonight, fg were caught committing systematic tax fraud for 9 years in the 90's so its a bit hypocritical of them to bleat on about this

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fear-of-expos-forced-noonans-tax-admission-508270.html


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    #33
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    I think it's important to note that it was VAT Returns that were falsified, IMO this is far worse than other tax frauds.

    A trader is entitled to use turnover cash to run their business, balance payments to suppliers, staff, rent etc and eventually when/if they make a profit they pay tax on the profit. Rates and the taxes/contributions on wages and pensions have to be paid but these can be variable and mistakes could be made.

    But VAT has the taxmans name on it from the moment it appears on an invoice, a reconciliation between VAT paid and VAT charged has to be made but the cash NEVER belongs to the business.


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    #34
    vicwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 28,403 ✭✭✭✭vicwatson


    No
    Cedrus wrote: »
    I think it's important to note that it was VAT Returns that were falsified, IMO this is far worse than other tax frauds.

    A trader is entitled to use turnover cash to run their business, balance payments to suppliers, staff, rent etc and eventually when/if they make a profit they pay tax on the profit. Rates and the taxes/contributions on wages and pensions have to be paid but these can be variable and mistakes could be made.

    But VAT has the taxmans name on it from the moment it appears on an invoice, a reconciliation between VAT paid and VAT charged has to be made but the cash NEVER belongs to the business.

    And MJ Wallace Ltd was the first business to use the cash this way right?:rolleyes:


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    #35
    Cedrus
    Registered Users Posts: 1,429 ✭✭✭Cedrus


    vicwatson wrote: »
    And MJ Wallace Ltd was the first business to use the cash this way right?:rolleyes:
    I never mentioned the company nor suggested that they were first to do anything. I said VAT fraud is more serious than other tax frauds, and it's a lot harder to do accidentally.


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    #36
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Don't care
    Cedrus wrote: »
    I never mentioned the company nor suggested that they were first to do anything. I said VAT fraud is more serious than other tax frauds, and it's a lot harder to do accidentally.

    It may have escaped your attention, but the economy is in free fall right now and everybody (with a brain) is doing whatever it takes to survive. I suspect that many in Mick Wallace's position would have done exactly what he did - I know I would, and have done, but not with VAT as it wasn't an option.


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    #37
    bruschi
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 4,141 Mod ✭✭✭✭bruschi


    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Who would you like to replace Mick with, yet another FG/FF/LAB TD not worth a tuppenny damn to the people of Wexford?

    as I had feared in his election, what exactly has Wallace done for the people of Wexford since his election? Yes, he does great work for the footballing community and set up a good grounds in Ferrycarrig. But since election, what has brought to Wexford? Has he put forward any job stimulous packages for the area? Other than have meetings for voting no and not paying household charges, has anything happened with his help for communities?

    He may well have done things, but I cant say I have heard anything about it. His priorites when he was being elected was changing the system and going after the men at the top. Saying how he wasnt there to fix potholes for local roads. Thats all well and good, and yes, the ridiculous nature of voting for someone just because they will sort something out on a personal level. But there is also a duty to respond to your constituency and help the people. Wexford has one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland. There is damn all happening in it, and to prioritise going for the big things about economy etc I thought at the time was wrong, and still think that way.


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    #38
    jpb1974
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭jpb1974


    what exactly has Wallace done for the people of Wexford since his election?

    You could ask the same question of Howlin, Kehoe, Browne etc..


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    #39
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Don't care
    jpb1974 wrote: »
    You could ask the same question of Howlin, Kehoe, Browne etc..

    Even more so since they are in the Dail for years and Mick is only feeling his way.


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    #40
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    No
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    It may have escaped your attention, but the economy is in free fall right now and everybody (with a brain) is doing whatever it takes to survive. I suspect that many in Mick Wallace's position would have done exactly what he did - I know I would, and have done, but not with VAT as it wasn't an option.

    Just because more people would do it or are doing it doesnt make it right thought does it. Saw on Vincent Browne last night that the Independent are running a story today about how when Micks business was failing he doubled his salary and his sons salary. Explain why he would do this if he was actually trying to protect the jobs of his workers as he so claims?

    I think he was looking out for number 1 as he always has done.


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    #41
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    No
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Even more so since they are in the Dail for years and Mick is only feeling his way.

    But what has he actually done for the Wexford?


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    #42
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    I am not one of his flock, so what, the question relates not only to Mick but what about the rest of the TD's, are they all honest and upstanding citizens?
    If you make Mick resign then all the rest must go at the same time, of course he was stupid beyond belief, he got caught, the other's must thank their lucky star's or will their time come.
    We voted Mr Kenny to sort the sorry sordid mess out, has he?
    Don't pick on one person, the people of Wexford are lucky we have happy Phil to live with, he is still there.


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    #43
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    No
    foxcoverteddy wrote: »
    I am not one of his flock, so what, the question relates not only to Mick but what about the rest of the TD's, are they all honest and upstanding citizens?
    If you make Mick resign then all the rest must go at the same time, of course he was stupid beyond belief, he got caught, the other's must thank their lucky star's or will their time come.
    We voted Mr Kenny to sort the sorry sordid mess out, has he?
    Don't pick on one person, the people of Wexford are lucky we have happy Phil to live with, he is still there.

    Its not picking on one person, its asking the question should Mick resign. When other Politicians get caught doing the same thing we will discuss that then too.

    Love the way all the pro Mick Heads are saying "leave him alone will ya, its not fair to pick on him", he willingly broke the law and should have to face some sort of consequences for doing so. Just because others may or may not have done this also does not excuse what he has done.


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    #44
    theforum
    Registered Users Posts: 29 ✭theforum


    Hes an absolute disgrace. He lied to the people of Wexford and he should resign his Dail seat immediately. The taxpayer should not have to fork out money for his wages to keep him in the lifestyle to which he is accustomed. For shame Mick!


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    #45
    foxcoverteddy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭foxcoverteddy


    Of course you are right, no one is saying about fairness, lets do all of them at the same time, if guilty make them resign, and lets see some legal action, but not just one man there are so many I believe.
    Lets face it are we checking MEP's, Government needs an overhaul. Where is Kenny or is it the end of the road for him.


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    #46
    jpb1974
    Registered Users Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭jpb1974


    He should be forced to cut his hair, don a suit, shirt & tie and paraded around in public.


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    #47
    Tzar Chasm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Don't care
    foxcoverteddy wrote: »
    Of course you are right, no one is saying about fairness, lets do all of them at the same time, if guilty make them resign, and lets see some legal action, but not just one man there are so many I believe.
    Lets face it are we checking MEP's, Government needs an overhaul. Where is Kenny or is it the end of the road for him.

    See hats a fair stance, let's see lowry booted too, let's have Willie o dee jailed for perjury, how about noonan being booted for his involvement in the tax dodge I outlined above, but a bit closer to home how about Paul keoghs undeclared property issue from earlier this year?

    I'd have no problem with making them stand down from the dail for cheating, but i'd like to see it applied to all the cheats not just Wallace otherwise its not fair process its a witchhunt.

    BTW i'd still reelect Wallace, I campaigned for the man knowing full well he had skeletons hidden


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    #48
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    No
    Tzar Chasm wrote: »
    Vincent brown raised an interesting point to the smarmy fg td tonight, fg were caught committing systematic tax fraud for 9 years in the 90's so its a bit hypocritical of them to bleat on about this

    http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fear-of-expos-forced-noonans-tax-admission-508270.html

    That's not really the point, the question asked was whether Mick Wallace should resign and I believe he should.
    The problem is, only the people of Wexford can force Wallace to resign. Over the years we have had several crooked politicians exposed and their electorate duly re-elected them, IMO the real shame in those cases falls on the electorate, if you're happy enough to elect a crook to the Dail then don't be surprised if it ends up full of crooks.


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    #49
    carm
    Registered Users Posts: 171 ✭✭carm


    No
    jackhammer wrote: »
    I don't see the difference between him and that bloke, Begley whose company didn't pay tax on its garlic imports. He got 6 years for that, and that was a fraud of 1.4 million.

    Let's see if Wallace faces the full rigours of the law, as did Begley. I won't hold my breath!

    This is what I'd like to know. What exactly is the difference between Begley's garlic tax case and Wallace's? If nothing happens to Wallace by way of bringing him to court, will Begley have a case to get his sentence quashed/reduced?

    I would see this as complete unfairness if Wallace just lost his cushy job (or didn't as the case may be) and Begley remained in prison.


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    #50
    Drummerboy08
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,102 ✭✭✭✭Drummerboy08


    Should Mick resign? Given that he deliberately avoiding paying an element of his VAT bill, and given that this is an offence, then yes he should.

    It's the right thing for him to do, just like avoiding the VAT bill in the first place was (I genuinely believe this).

    However, if Mick is made to resign for this, then unfortunately anyone else in the Dail, or Senate who were involved in unsavory issues should also follow.

    Lets face the facts here folks, there are alot of skeletons hiding in Leinster house, this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and won't be the last.


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    #51
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    No
    Drummerboy08 wrote: »
    Should Mick resign? Given that he deliberately avoiding paying an element of his VAT bill, and given that this is an offence, then yes he should.

    It's the right thing for him to do, just like avoiding the VAT bill in the first place was (I genuinely believe this).

    However, if Mick is made to resign for this, then unfortunately anyone else in the Dail, or Senate who were involved in unsavory issues should also follow.

    Lets face the facts here folks, there are alot of skeletons hiding in Leinster house, this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and won't be the last.

    It isnt the first time and wont be the last as you rightly say so maybe now is the time a precendence was set which may deter others in future from doing something similiar.


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    #52
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    No
    Drummerboy08 wrote: »

    However, if Mick is made to resign for this, then unfortunately anyone else in the Dail, or Senate who were involved in unsavory issues should also follow.

    Lets face the facts here folks, there are alot of skeletons hiding in Leinster house, this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and won't be the last.

    Nobody in the establishment can make Wallace or any other T.D., resign. In the case of the likes of Lowry, Ahern etc. the only sanction available was expulsion from their respective parties. Under our Constitution the people, (hard to believe I know) are Sovereign and only they can force him to resign or not re-elect him and as I posted earlier, some people seem quite happy to be represented by a crook. If however, criminal proceedings are taken against him and he is found guilty in Court or is declared a bankrupt, that would be a gamechanger.


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    #53
    orwellg84
    Registered Users Posts: 139 ✭✭orwellg84


    No
    bmaxi wrote: »
    Nobody in the establishment can make Wallace or any other T.D., resign. In the case of the likes of Lowry, Ahern etc. the only sanction available was expulsion from their respective parties. Under our Constitution the people, (hard to believe I know) are Sovereign and only they can force him to resign or not re-elect him and as I posted earlier, some people seem quite happy to be represented by a crook. If however, criminal proceedings are taken against him and he is found guilty in Court or is declared a bankrupt, that would be a gamechanger.

    Nevertheless someone who stood for the Dail on the basis of the moral high ground should use the same moral backbone and resign.
    I heard his statements on the issue and whilst I understood why he may have taken the decisions he did, he is really splitting legal hairs trying to separate himself from those decisions by trying to claim his actions as M Wallace director of M Wallace company are different to M Wallace individual. Legally it may be the case but from a moral perspective he has no credibility left.

    Shame, I thought he was a good guy, unfortunately seems he is just like all the others, once the pig has its head in the trough you can't shift it.


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    #54
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    No
    He should absolutely resign - that there are worse offenders in the Dáil than him doesn't make it ok that he did it.

    Wonder what'd happen if you could get a few thousand wexford voters to sign a petition calling for his resignation. Doubt it'd do anything, but he might be a decent enough human being to step down if his constituents didn't want him anymore. Probably not though.


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    #55
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Don't care
    Well, if someone starts a petition asking Mick Wallace to resign there will be another asking him to stay - he's a breath of fresh air after our useless bunch of gombeens down here. If he's forced out, I don't think any of the establishment parties need be eyeing his seat - most of us are heartily sick of them all.


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    #56
    Raphael
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,880 ✭✭✭Raphael


    No
    I'm sure any party would be delighted to take his seat, and what's more all of them got more first preferences than Mick did, but spread across candidates, a by-election would be a straight run off with only 1 candidate per party, and a different matter entirely.

    A by-election would be the perfect thing, and let Mick run in it. If he wins it, twill show that he still has the mandate of the people of wexford.

    Edit: That's specifically Labour, FF and FG that got more votes than Mick, btw. SF and PBP didn't


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    #57
    Tzar Chasm
    Registered Users Posts: 2,069 ✭✭✭Tzar Chasm


    Don't care
    Fnck that if we're to have an election I want all five of them to stand for re election, whatever about Wallace how many people think howlin or keogh could keep their seat I n that position


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    #58
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,886 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    No
    how is mick's constituency work, he operated from dublin, anyone ever go to clinic of his?


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    #59
    bmaxi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,859 ✭✭✭bmaxi


    No
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Well, if someone starts a petition asking Mick Wallace to resign there will be another asking him to stay - he's a breath of fresh air after our useless bunch of gombeens down here. If he's forced out, I don't think any of the establishment parties need be eyeing his seat - most of us are heartily sick of them all.

    I share your contempt for the majority of politicians but the way things stand, Wallace is a lame duck. There is no way he can voice an opinion on anything, particularly financial matters, in the Dáil, he'll be torn to shreds.
    The upshot is, we're better off to have a different TD representing us, doesn't have to be from any of the main parties, but Wallace is gone as of today, whether he resigns or not.


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    #60
    Judgement Day
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,549 ✭✭✭✭Judgement Day


    Don't care
    Perhaps Cllr.James Browne (FF) heir apparent to John Browne T.D. could go forward to represent the county or will he bide his time and wait to inherit his seat like his Dad? :rolleyes:


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    #61
    donalg1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,513 ✭✭✭donalg1


    No
    Judgement Day wrote: »
    Perhaps Cllr.James Browne (FF) heir apparent to John Browne T.D. could go forward to represent the county or will he bide his time and wait to inherit his seat like his Dad? :rolleyes:

    Well he wouldn't be any worse than Mick anyway who so far hasn't done a damn thing for wexford.

    Can't believe he is at the euros too the sheer cheek of him is astonishing. He is off over there living it up at the tax payers expense and now he expects them to pay him another two million to top it off, and you actually defend him. I'd laugh if it wasn't so disgraceful.


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