Golden retriever vs golden doodle

Louboutfan

Does anyone have experience of either breed and care to share info regarding temperament, ease of training, exercise requirements etc.

Thanks

andreac

Ok, firstly, a Golden Doodle is not a breed, its a made up name given to two dogs that have been bred together, and given a silly name to help the puppy farmers sell them easier.

I would stay well away from anyone selling such dogs as i can guarantee they are no responsible breeders in any way.

Golden Retrievers are working dogs so need a huge amount of exercise so be aware of that. They make great family pets. They do shed a lot so they would need a certain of amount of regular brushing to keep thir coat in good condition.

They can suffer from joint problems so its very important to source a breeder that has done all the relevent health checks on the parents, ie Hip/elbow scoring etc. Do not buy a pup off someone who has not carried these tests out on the parents of the pups.

Louboutfan

andreac wrote: »

Ok, firstly, a Golden Doodle is not a breed, its a made up name given to two dogs that have been bred together, and given a silly name to help the puppy farmers sell them easier.

I would stay well away from anyone selling such dogs as i can guarantee they are no responsible breeders in any way.

Golden Retrievers are working dogs so need a huge amount of exercise so be aware of that. They make great family pets. They do shed a lot so they would need a certain of amount of regular brushing to keep thir coat in good condition.

They can suffer from joint problems so its very important to source a breeder that has done all the relevent health checks on the parents, ie Hip/elbow scoring etc. Do not buy a pup off someone who has not carried these tests out on the parents of the pups.

Hi thanks for your reply and info on golden retrievers.

I will take what you said on board regarding the golden doodle but I believe I have found a responsible breeder, this person is definitely NOT a puppy farmer. I am eager to get first hand Advice from someone who has a golden doodle...

andreac

Louboutfan wrote: »

Hi thanks for your reply and info on golden retrievers.

I will take what you said on board regarding the golden doodle but I believe I have found a responsible breeder, this person is definitely NOT a puppy farmer. I am eager to get first hand Advice from someone who has a golden doodle...

How do you know they are not a puppy farmer? They dont have to have hundreds of dogs to be a puppy farmer.

Where did you find this so called breeder? Def not through the Kennel Club as they would never support such thing...

Anyone who breeds these breeds with made up names are NOT responsible, trust me. There is no such thing as a Golden Doodle.

For starters its against IKC rules and ethics to intentionally cross two dogs so i would never support anyone who breeds like this.

They do not have the dogs welfare as their main concern, it would only be purely for money and to help them sell their dogs a lot easier by giving them ridiculous names like Golden Doodle...:rolleyes:

carav10

andreac wrote: »

How do you know they are not a puppy farmer? They dont have to have hundreds of dogs to be a puppy farmer.

Where did you find this so called breeder? Def not through the Kennel Club as they would never support such thing...

Anyone who breeds these breeds with made up names are NOT responsible, trust me. There is no such thing as a Golden Doodle.

For starters its against IKC rules and ethics to intentionally cross two dogs so i would never support anyone who breeds like this.

They do not have the dogs welfare as their main concern, it would only be purely for money and to help them sell their dogs a lot easier by giving them ridiculous names like Golden Doodle...:rolleyes:

Really?? The Irish Guide Dogs are breaking all the 'rules' then....they may not be recognised breeds by the IKC but by the statement above you're saying the Irish Guide Dogs are not responsible in breeding their dogs...unless maybe, there are actually exceptions sometimes!

http://www.guidedogs.ie/iopen24/breeding-t-18_40_23.html

tk123

Golden Doodles need to be groomed regularly if they have long coats so factor this in as a cost - I'd estimate it'd cost at least €50. If they have short coats they're like brillo pads and again difficult to groom. I brush my retriever once a week and no problems with shedding - I have asthma from allergies and don't have any problems once I brush him every week. They both like to get wet and mucky, are clever so easy enough to train but are big and clumsy as puppies so need to be watched around kids as they could easily knock one down - that said no dog/puppy should be left unsupervised around kids.
For me choosing between the two is a no brainer - for the GR you have established responsible breeders out there who health test their dogs so this minimises to an extent the chances of the dog developing health problems. For the Doodles you just don't have this - they seem to be the latest craze (well where I live anyways!!) so you have gombeens who value making a few quid more than the health of the pups.
I have a dog with bone/joint issues and it's stressful and heartbreaking at times - I'll never get another dog unless it's parents have certs coming out of their ears.

Louboutfan

Fine I will refer to it as a Golden Retriever/ poodle cross :rolleyes:. Both parents are family pets they are having one litter and I'm not paying for the pup.

Carav10 - yes, I've met Golden doo, I mean, Golden retriever/poodle cross dogs in training with the IGDFB last Christmas and I was speaking to one of the puppy walkers. She was saying they make excellent assistance dogs due to their gentle nature and intellence.

It would be great to hear from someone who actually has one of these as a pet.

andreac

Louboutfan wrote: »

Fine I will refer to it as a Golden Retriever/ poodle cross :rolleyes:. Both parents are family pets they are having one litter and I'm not paying for the pup.

Carav10 - yes, I've met Golden doo, I mean, Golden retriever/poodle cross dogs in training with the IGDFB last Christmas and I was speaking to one of the puppy walkers. She was saying they make excellent assistance dogs due to their gentle nature and intellence.

It would be great to hear from someone who actually has one of these as a pet.

Family pets, so why the need to breed them??

Have they been helath tested??

If they are family pets then why the need to cross these two breeds??

Yes, these are in my eyes puppy farmers/back yard breeders, call it what you want, but they certainly are not responsible breeders. If they were they wouldnt be doing this, as there is absolutely no need to be breeding dogs like this...

Louboutfan

Tk thanks for your reply and all the info in your post. We don't have any children but will hopfully have some in the next few years so we want a dog with an excellent temperament and is easily trained.

I read somewhere that cross bred dogs can suffer less from conditions that are usually inherent in the parent's breed i.e hip dysplasia, eye disorders etc. Do you know if this is true? I guess it depends on the dog though... I've also read they shed less than the GR.

andreac

carav10 wrote: »

Really?? The Irish Guide Dogs are breaking all the 'rules' then....they may not be recognised breeds by the IKC but by the statement above you're saying the Irish Guide Dogs are not responsible in breeding their dogs...unless maybe, there are actually exceptions sometimes!

http://www.guidedogs.ie/iopen24/breeding-t-18_40_23.html

Thats very different, they are bred for a specific purpose with reasons behind it by people who know what they are doing.

andreac

Louboutfan wrote: »

Tk thanks for your reply and all the info in your post. We don't have any children but will hopfully have some in the next few years so we want a dog with an excellent temperament and is easily trained.

I read somewhere that cross bred dogs can suffer less from conditions that are usually inherent in the parent's breed i.e hip dysplasia, eye disorders etc. Do you know if this is true? I guess it depends on the dog though... I've also read they shed less than the GR.

Not true. Most of these cross breeds are done by irresponsible breeders who dont health test, so the pups end up with more problems as they are taken from both breeds.

The only reason they would shed less would be because the poodle is a non shed breed.

loveisdivine

Could you possibly look in some rescues to see if they have a breed your looking for?
Hate to think of more pups being brought into the world when there's already thousands of dogs needing loving homes.

Rescues often have puppies too.

Louboutfan

andreac wrote: »

Family pets, so why the need to breed them??

Have they been helath tested??

If they are family pets then why the need to cross these two breeds??

Yes, these are in my eyes puppy farmers/back yard breeders, call it what you want, but they certainly are not responsible breeders. If they were they wouldnt be doing this, as there is absolutely no need to be breeding dogs like this...
Thats the last i have to say on this matter before i get in trouble :mad:

We will have to agree to disagree.

You can think whatever you want but you know nothing of this particular situation. We have had family pets at home (both are IKC registered) and we mated them once. All our pups went to people we know. We never registered the pups or took any money for them. We see them regularly and they are fantastic dogs (as are their parents). Both parents have now been neutered. We are certainly not backyard breeders nor are the family I know with the poodle and the GR.


I'm not sure what you mean by 'there is absolutely no need to be breeding dogs like this' - like what? Having a litter of healthy pups, rearing them in your home as part of you family. Ensuring that their new homes are appropriate, secure, loving, can give time to groom and exercise regularly? Hardly irresponsible in my mind.

I've met a few IKC reg breeders who were far from 'responsible'.

Edited to add: both parents have regular health checks and have been hip and eye scored.

Louboutfan

loveisdivine wrote: »

Could you possibly look in some rescues to see if they have a breed your looking for?
Hate to think of more pups being brought into the world when there's already thousands of dogs needing loving homes.

Rescues often have puppies too.

Absolutely. And I have done. I am merely looking for some first hand experience from people who have similar dogs on here.

tk123

carav10 wrote: »

Really?? The Irish Guide Dogs are breaking all the 'rules' then....they may not be recognised breeds by the IKC but by the statement above you're saying the Irish Guide Dogs are not responsible in breeding their dogs...unless maybe, there are actually exceptions sometimes!

OT but our hydro place has a few assitance dogs coming for joint issues and the ortho specialist we went to in cork had guide dogs there for treatment every time we were down...

Anyhoos OP for the shedding - dogs are messy so you need to allow for this. You could potentially have a long haired shaggy dog with a double coat (retrievers have a top and under coat) - mix that with Irish weather and you have a mucky mop on legs wrecking the house/car!! :pac:

Zapperzy

The argument about crossbreeds being healthier than purebreds goes completely out the window when your talking about two purebreeds being crossed or first generation pups being crossed. In my opinion (and I'm no genetics expert) complete dolly mixture crossbreeds that haven't seen a purebred dog in dozens of generations *may* be less likely to suffer from the typical inherited diseases that some breeds suffer from. But mixing two purebreds will not equal genetic diversity and you could very well end up with a pup that inherits abnormalities from both sides of the family.

So I wouldn't base your decision on that. Regardless of what breed or mix of breeds you go for make sure you see health certs from both parents and know what they mean, just because they have a health cert doesn't mean the results are good.

pokertalk

just to let you know op that when you get test results from parents a simple vet check is not the proper test .what you need is breed specific results.you seem to have more homework than the average person buying an ikc reg pup.if you can get the propper health results from both parents to insure the best start for the pup then good luck to ya.ask questions questions and more questions.the health is most inportant thing at the end of the day

Louboutfan

Zapperzy, I think you are right re genetics. I was beginning to think the same myself the more I read.

Pokerface - yes, of course the health of the pup is the foremost consideration for us. I would have a fairly good idea of what I am looking at in relation to health certs as we have always had pure bred dogs in our house; however, all information relating to the health of the parents will be first run past our vet.

pokertalk

Louboutfan wrote: »

Zapperzy, I think you are right re genetics. I was beginning to think the same myself the more I read.

Pokerface - yes, of course the health of the pup is the foremost consideration for us. I would have a fairly good idea of what I am looking at in relation to health certs as we have always had pure bred dogs in our house; however, all information relating to the health of the parents will be first run past our vet.

pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pa pokerface???? wha wa wha wha;)

Louboutfan

Whoopsie!!! PokerTALK! Sorry

The Sweeper

Louboutfan wrote: »

Absolutely. And I have done. I am merely looking for some first hand experience from people who have similar dogs on here.

I'm in oz and the -oddles are popular here.

Poodles are intelligent, trainable, biddable non-shed dogs who can be in close emotional sync with their owners. They can also be neurotic anxiety sponges who are so smart they need handling by someone who speaks fluent dog or you end up dealing with fear aggression and resource guarding.

Golden Retrievers are intelligent, biddable dogs who are often described as the perfect family pet. They can also be headstrong, destructive, reactive dogs whose work energy turns to undesirable behavior if not properly channelled.

Cross the two, and you can get a medium woolly golden coated non-shed hunk of sweetness who's intelligent, chilled out and biddable and great with children.

Or you could get a large, double coated curly grooming nightmare who is highly intelligent, neurotic and headstrong, destructive because of a low boredom threshold and likely to develop resource guarding and other behavioral problems and is that really a dog you want around your kids?

The former is luck, the latter is a hell of a lot of work. A first generation cross is also a total lucky dip in terms of which tendencies will out.

Your friends are basically, for whatever reasons, breeding a litter of mongrels deliberately. The pounds are full of mongrels with five days to live. Why are your friends' mongrels going to be better than the mongrels in the pound? Why should they deliberately breed lucky dip dogs that'll go to, say, eight homes that could have been filled by eight pound dogs? This is what people mean when they talk about responsible breeding etc.

Cherry Blossom

OP, I'm a little confused here. I simply don't understand why some one would have their dogs hip scored and eye tested for purposes cross-breeding, only to give the pups away for free, this part to me does not make any sense at all. Why has this litter been bred?

Also, very, very few vets would have the level of specific knowledge needed to analyse genetic health test results to the degree of determining whether or not two dogs should be bred from. This is all very breed specific and waaay outside the remit of a general veterinary practitioner unless this practice has an orthopaedic and eye specialist on-board (btw there is only one vet in the republic of Ireland currently that does the BVA eye tests). This is all very breed specific stuff you are dealing with here.

I'm aware that there are a few people in the UK who are crossing labs and poodles and putting all the necessary work in but I haven't heard of anyone doing this with GR's and I'm unaware of any breeders here who are crossing and doing all the necessary tests. So if what you say this person is doing is truly all above board, if you don't mind PMing me their details I'm sure quite a lot of people would be interested in their pups and would be great if someone actually exists who is taking the relevant precautions.

I have nothing against cross-breeding in theory but in all honesty it just doesn't hold it's water in practice. The problem is that there is no reliable way to document the ancestry and genetics of these pups, you have no way of finding out if the paperwork you are shown is actually authentic and no way of knowing if they are actually the records of the parents of the pups or of some other dogs. There is a huge amount of variation between pups in a litter of cross-breeds varying from the best of both parents to the worst of both and everything in between, at 8 weeks old I would imagine it would be pretty hard to distinguish between them. It would be impossible to tell what the coat will end up like for example until the adult coat actually starts to come in. If you really want to take one of these pups your best bet is to research both breeds to death, investigate all common health problems including the costs associated with treatments and make your decision based on whether or not you are willing to take on the absolute worst case scenario and how this would fit in with your circumstances. How would stop a 5 year old that is completely crippled but still has a high work drive from going insane for example?

The thing you should keep in mind is that when you take responsibility for this pup (if you do), it's exactly that - your responsibility, so you need to be sure your in it for the long haul if you decide to go ahead.

gizmo555

Louboutfan wrote: »

It would be great to hear from someone who actually has one of these as a pet.

FWIW, I have Labradoodle/Goldendoodle cross. She's very sweet tempered and patient with our three children and very affectionate. She's also very friendly towards strangers, so obviously wouldn't make a guard dog, but that's fine with me. The one problem with this (which I'd glad of some advice on!) is her habit of submissive urination when a visitor calls to the house. The breeders had one litter with their own two pets, and I don't believe they plan to have any more.

She has a long wavy coat, mostly cream, which sheds very little. It takes a moderate amount of care - combing/brushing weekly - or it will get quite matted.

All in all she makes a beautiful family pet and we're delighted with her. So far, at 15 months, she's had no significant health issues and at a check-up at the time of her last vaccination a couple of weeks ago our vet was entirely satisified with her condition.

Anything else you want to know, just ask!

Louboutfan

The sweeper - thanks for all the pros and cons of each breed. Im not going to enter discussion on dogs in pounds as it is off the point. That's for another thread.

Adrenaline junkie - I won't be giving any of my friends information out, sorry. You can be rest assured that any pup I take into my home (and this applies to dogs I've had in the past), pure bred or not, will receive the best care throughout its life regardless of what conditions arise, generic or otherwise. I guess these people didn't want to breed their dogs if they there was a chance that the pups would suffer. They most certainly aren't doing it for money anyway.

Gizmo, thank you for your response. This is exactly the kind of information I was requesting on this thread. I might pm you if that's ok?


Guys I'm going to leave this thread here. I really didn't come on here for a lecture on responsible breeding and dog ownership. I appreciate this is a sticky subject as so many people buy dogs and don't know what they are doing, who they are buying from etc and the poor dog ends up neglected or rehomed or in the pound but me or my family don't fall into this category or anywhere near

The Sweeper

Hey Gizmo

When you say you have a labradoodle/goldendoodle cross, do you mean your dog is a cross a few lines in, from a few crosses?

I ask because the labradoodle in particular is a topic of real argument. They were initially bred to try and produce a non-shed guide dog so blind people with allergies could have a companion that wouldn't trigger an allergic reaction.

There are groups of breeders trying to establish breed consistency with labradoodles and they are generations into their work. They health test, they choose only the dogs with desirable traits, so on. However the biggest issue with them not being accepted as a proper breed is that they don't breed true - so if you put two labradoodles together, their progeny won't be consistent in appearance and temperament. You'll still get some who shed, some who have a curly coat, some who are quite large and some who are quite small - but the consistency in the controlled breeding programmes is getting better.

The guy who created the labradoodle has been quoted as saying he regrets the day he did it, because of all of the experimenting folks who take a pure bred labrador or golden retriever, and a poodle, and mate them in the belief that the mongrel pups are labradoodles just because it's a nice name. However the first gen crosses do have the issues I mentioned - it's pot luck whether or not it'll be a shedder (or - deep joy - have a retriever double coat, but the inner layer sheds and the outer layer is poodle wool so you have a dog whose inner coat sheds and matts into his outer coat and you get dreadlocks).

Gizmo to answer your question on submissive urination, it seems your lucky dip outcome pooch has the neurosis of the poodle. She's probably a high anxiety dog (separation anxiety at all?) and she's also probably extremely intelligent.

You need to work on channelling that intelligence, building her confidence and reducing stressors. Poodles are extremely closely keyed into the emotions of their owners and the atmosphere in the house - they can make terrible pets in a house where there are temperamental teenagers and a lot of angst and door slamming, for instance. (I did extensive research into poodles at one stage because I really wanted a standard poodle, but decided that my husband, who isn't a dog lover and is fairly grumpy, would be a terrible fit with the dog.)

Ways to address the peeing - it's a difficult issue to fix, but I'd recommend you look up calming signals (there are LOTS of videos on youtube on calming signals, and info on google - e.g. yawning, lip licking, so on). Find a positive reward ethos trainer (because a very intelligent, submissive and anxious dog will usually benefit best from purely positive training) and research their advice on handling front door arrivals and so on.

Basically you want to create an atmosphere of calm and relaxed life, giving reassuring signals to your dog (but reassuring them how they'd reassure each other, not how a human would reassure them - it's a sad contrast, but our reassurance, which is hugs, pats, cuddles, high pitched voices, so on, exacerbates a dog's stress. Their reassurance, which is yawning at them, licking your lips, sighing heavily, turning your back on them, acting with complete disinterest and so on, actually calms them down.)

You also need to find a friend or relative who'll do some door work with you, so you can train your dog up to believe that an arrival at the house is totally boring, but there's a lot more detail on that which I won't go into in this thread - but you can google yourself crosseyed on it and come up with some good strategies.

Cherry Blossom

Louboutfan wrote: »

Adrenaline junkie - I won't be giving any of my friends information out, sorry. You can be rest assured that any pup I take into my home (and this applies to dogs I've had in the past), pure bred or not, will receive the best care throughout its life regardless of what conditions arise, generic or otherwise. I guess these people didn't want to breed their dogs if they there was a chance that the pups would suffer.

Well you certainly give the impression that you will do the best by any dog you have, that should be a given but sadly is often not the case when it comes the public at large. I appreciate that you don't want to give out your friends details, I didn't realise it was a friend as you said you had found a responsible breeder which I assumed meant someone you had no connection with. From my point of view this means that to the best of my knowledge I am still unaware of anyone who is responsibly deliberately cross breeding so will continue to advise caution to anyone seeking advice on acquiring a dog that has been purposely cross-bred.

Louboutfan wrote: »

They most certainly aren't doing it for money anyway.

I never said they were doing it for money, I asked the reasons why they did it, and you leave me to arrive at my own conclusions as you haven't answered. Best of luck with your future pup whichever choice you make.

Louboutfan

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Louboutfan wrote: »

Adrenaline junkie - I won't be giving any of my friends information out, sorry. You can be rest assured that any pup I take into my home (and this applies to dogs I've had in the past), pure bred or not, will receive the best care throughout its life regardless of what conditions arise, generic or otherwise. I guess these people didn't want to breed their dogs if they there was a chance that the pups would suffer.

Well you certainly give the impression that you will do the best by any dog you have, that should be a given but sadly is often not the case when it comes the public at large. I appreciate that you don't want to give out your friends details, I didn't realise it was a friend as you said you had found a responsible breeder which I assumed meant someone you had no connection with. From my point of view this means that to the best of my knowledge I am still unaware of anyone who is responsibly deliberately cross breeding so will continue to advise caution to anyone seeking advice on acquiring a dog that has been purposely cross-bred.

Louboutfan wrote: »

They most certainly aren't doing it for money anyway.

I never said they were doing it for money, I asked the reasons why they did it, and you leave me to arrive at my own conclusions as you haven't answered. Best of luck with your future pup whichever choice you make.

Sorry adrenaline junkie, I didn't mean to be misleading. It is a friend and I would consider them responsible breeders.

I see where you are coming from. And I do agree with you to a certain extent. I know you never said they were doing it for money but you did say that you couldn't understand why they would undertake health checks and then give the pups away for free. Anyway, I'm just going around in circles now. I got the info I was looking for and more. Thanks

gizmo555

Louboutfan wrote: »

Gizmo, thank you for your response. This is exactly the kind of information I was requesting on this thread. I might pm you if that's ok?

No problem.

gizmo555

The Sweeper wrote: »

Hey Gizmo

When you say you have a labradoodle/goldendoodle cross, do you mean your dog is a cross a few lines in, from a few crosses?

Her dam is a 1st generation labradoodle and the sire is a 1st gen goldendoodle.

Magenta

andreac wrote: »

I would stay well away from anyone selling such dogs as i can guarantee they are no responsible breeders in any way.

I could the same about people who chop their puppy's tails off (an action vets can be struck off for) so that the dog looks a certain way when they prance around a show ring with it. There's more to responsible and ethical breeders than you make out.

OP, here is a website with advice on caring for a Goldendoodle, which I believe is what you actually asked about.

cena

I would go with a retriever. Get family dog. Friendly loveable, great around kids. The hair falling off is the biggest problem. Ours has bad hips. Was told these breed have joint trouble the older they get.

He loves getting hugs just comes up puts his head on you and waits for a hug he is happy out than.