Casually killing creatures

Witcher

NegativeCreep wrote: »

They do what they have to to get food. Why dont you use the time spent hunting a build a wall to keep them out instead. There are better ways than killing them.

Build a wall to keep a fox out? I've heard it all...do you think the fox is going to look at the wall and think...'oh well...starvation it is' and just lie down to die? Think about it...think hard now...if it's as easy to do in the real world as it is to do in your mind why haven't farmers across the globe done this?

You have zero concept of the work and money that would go into walling in 50/100/200 acres of land probably with steep hills as part of the land, and at the end of it, it still wouldnt work.

You said you kill bees because you 'hate them with a passion', if someone kills a fox because they 'hate them with a passion' are you any better than them?

NegativeCreep

Blay wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

They do what they have to to get food. Why dont you use the time spent hunting a build a wall to keep them out instead. There are better ways than killing them.

Build a wall to keep a fox out? I've heard it all...do you think the fox is going to look at the wall and think...'oh well...starvation it is' and just lie down to die? Think about it...think hard now...if it's as easy to do in the real world as it is to do in your mind why haven't farmers across the globe done this?

You said you kill bees because you 'hate them with a passion', if someone kills a fox because they 'hate them with a passion' are you any better than them?

I just think that people are too quick to rush into killing things when there are probably other ways of going about it. Im not a farmer (thank god) so I dont know what those other ways are. The foxes ive seen around my area seem really placid and nice and I just dont see what people have against them.

I have a phobia of bees wasps and flying insects in general, thats why I kill them. Most of the time I cant even get close enough to kill them anyway :L

Witcher

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I just think that people are too quick to rush into killing things when there are probably other ways of going about it. Im not a farmer (thank god) so I dont know what those other ways are. The foxes ive seen around my area seem really placid and nice and I just dont see what people have against them.

I have a phobia of bees wasps and flying insects in general, thats why I kill them. Most of the time I cant even get close enough to kill them anyway :L

There is no other way to deal with them, they can't be trapped and released because they'll become a nuisance elsewhere. Guys here are shooting probably 20/30+ a year and the numbers are right back up by the next year. They're really only placid because they can't eat you, I think they're nice looking animals too but they're really not as timid as they seem when one sees them standing in a field.

NegativeCreep

Blay wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I just think that people are too quick to rush into killing things when there are probably other ways of going about it. Im not a farmer (thank god) so I dont know what those other ways are. The foxes ive seen around my area seem really placid and nice and I just dont see what people have against them.

I have a phobia of bees wasps and flying insects in general, thats why I kill them. Most of the time I cant even get close enough to kill them anyway :L

There is no other way to deal with them, they can't be trapped and released because they'll become a nuisance elsewhere. Guys here are shooting probably 20/30+ a year and the numbers are right back up by the next year. They're really only placid because they can't eat you, I think they're nice looking animals too but they're really as timid as they seem when one sees them standing in a field.

Hmm ok. As long as they absolutely HAVE to do it and no ones taking pleasure in it then I suppose it's ok. I just think id die if I saw someone do it in real life though :L

Ronomono

I think most people draw the line at mammals. People don't really like killing mammals :P Fish, Insects, etc, people seem to have no problem..

Witcher

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I just think id die if I saw someone do it in real life though :L

I personally do not hunt but I've seen it done and if the person doing it is good and using the right tool then the animal doesn't even know what has happened. A proper hunter (one that isn't trespassing on the land and knows and cares about what they're doing) will aim to do it with the minimal pain because nobody wants to be chasing after wounded foxes in the dark:)

---

I think a lot of people think of hunters as lads hanging out the window of a jeep firing at any pair of eyes they can see in a field at night, fcukers like that shouldn't even have a gun.

NegativeCreep

Blay wrote: »

NegativeCreep wrote: »

I just think id die if I saw someone do it in real life though :L

I personally do not hunt but I've seen it done and if the person doing it is good and using the right tool then the animal doesn't even know what has happened. A proper hunter (one that isn't trespassing on the land and knows and cares about what they're doing) will aim to do it with the minimal pain because nobody wants to be chasing after wounded foxes in the dark:)

A thats fine then I suppose.
That religion teacher I was on about though said she used to get her dog and hunt rabbits and foxes 'for the craic.' that kinda thing I have an issue with

Ronomono

Also I hate the thought of hunting foxes. They're such awesome creatures, I wish people wouldn't

The King of Moo

Blay wrote: »

Would you rather he left them in a heap?

It's to show the animals size etc. A big fox with a good clean coat and teeth in good nick is indicative of an animal that is eating well; could be chickens, sheep, birds etc etc.

Yes.
He could've noted their size himself and not photographed them. There were so few of the critters (four, I believe) that there was no need to line them up to figure out their size. And there was no need to photograph them. If it were necessary to inform anyone of the animals' size, he could simply have told local farmers. There was no need to take a photo and share it with strangers on the internet, except to show off and to gain pleasure.

And I don't see why the gun needed to be in the picture, or why it needed to be lined up with the foxes' corpses.

kildare.17hmr

Did i not explain this a few pages back??

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

to put the pic up in the hunting section and on another site i post on to share with the lads. We all like to look at the pics that go with the stories. I take pics of most things i shoot

Discodog

I used to have respect for some of the hunters. But comments about shooting cats, hunting goats with dogs & a spear, the only good fox is a dead fox & a psychology mod saying that anyone who opposes hunting is suffering from hysteria/addiction/OCD, make me think again.

I really wonder if people with such extreme views should ever be allowed to possess a gun. If wildlife needs controlling then maybe it should be done by licensed professionals who we can rely on to dispatch the animal & treat it with respect. The wildlife of Ireland belongs to all of us. No individual should have the right to kill without a good reason.

There is also this misapprehension that every shooter is a good upstanding responsible person. Some of the remarks here show the opposite. I have heard locally that two men were using a rifle to take pot shots at seagulls. I have seen people shooting next to houses with pets/children & too close to roads & paths.

TheBegotten wrote: »

Just as a side note, I think our attitude to land has a lot to answer for in relation to our bad zoological rep. To clear things up, just because its your land doesn't mean you can do anything you want on it.

Good point but also you have the Catholic teaching regarding animals, the general level of ignorance, & an inexplicable belief, by many, that animal can be treated in any way that a human sees fit.

It's not just with wildlife. Our animal welfare laws & practices are about 20 to 30 years behind much of Europe. The Convention on Pet Animals was signed by most of Europe 20 years ago but we refused to sign.

kildare.17hmr

What makes people think irish hunters are different from the ones from any other country? Check any hunting forum from any country and you will see the exact same threads as our hunting forum and other irish ones with similar pics ect. Youtube is the same. Most hunters take trophies of some kind.

Taking foxes as an example, they are alot healthier in ares that they are shot in and anyone will tell you that. When i started shooting my area i shot a good few scrabby under nurished foxes that you were just putting out if their missery, these days the population is in great shape and i have not seen a poor fox in well over a year.

Some of the posts here from a couple of hunters are not representitive of the hunting forum members or the humting lads i know, thats not having a pop at anyone by the way just thought it should be said because some of the posts have come accross as very arrogant and the points not made well

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Most hunters take trophies of some kind.

So would you line up some dead Cats & photograph them for the "lads" to enjoy ? If not then why not ? Maybe you might be a little worried about the photo ending up in the press ?

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Taking foxes as an example, they are alot healthier in ares that they are shot in and anyone will tell you that.

Les Stocker, who is one of the World's most highly regarded experts on Foxes, would disagree & so would I. It is a common argument that hunting makes a population healthier. Someone who is killing Foxes, on the pretence of protecting stock, is going to kill whatever Fox comes their way - they aren't going to be selective.

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

Some of the posts here from a couple of hunters are not representitive of the hunting forum members or the humting lads i know, thats not having a pop at anyone by the way just thought it should be said because some of the posts have come accross as very arrogant and the points not made well

There are thousands of gun owners & you only know a tiny percentage of them. The shooting forum is bound to attract enthusiasts, some of whom may take a strange pride in what they do. But all of the hunters, that have posted here have been deemed by a Garda Superintendent to be suitable people to own a gun. That is disturbing.

I know that the shooting community are wary of this. They don't really want to be associated with the hunting with dogs crowd - in case it gets banned. But at the end of the day all of you are prepared to casually kill as per the subject of the thread. But you take it to a new level in that is your hobby, your pastime, so it could be viewed as even worse than just casual killing.

saiint

anything bigger then an elephant
or taller then a girraff
i wouldnt kill

sheesh

Discodog wrote: »

I used to have respect for some of the hunters. But comments about shooting cats, hunting goats with dogs & a spear, the only good fox is a dead fox & a psychology mod saying that anyone who opposes hunting is suffering from hysteria/addiction/OCD, make me think again.

So because of something said on the internet by people who my or may not actually shoot/Hunt you have decided that a rethink is in order. well done.

Discodog wrote: »

I really wonder if people with such extreme views should ever be allowed to possess a gun. If wildlife needs controlling then maybe it should be done by licensed professionals who we can rely on to dispatch the animal & treat it with respect.

so because these people on the internet say they do not respect animals you plan to use tax payers money and pay people to respect animals when they are killing them.

Also are these views extreme? I don't think you would know, you seem to be completely ignorant of the relationship between humans and animals and how they work, from slaughter houses to farming to people hunting you seem to know nothing about them except what you have read on the internet.

Discodog wrote: »

The wildlife of Ireland belongs to all of us. No individual should have the right to kill without a good reason.

who decides what is a good reason ? people like you? you don't know anything other than what you read on the internet, or maybe people we pay to respect animals.

Discodog wrote: »

There is also this misapprehension that every shooter is a good upstanding responsible person.

no one has said that. thats just a sweeping statement.

Discodog wrote: »

Some of the remarks here show the opposite. I have heard locally that two men were using a rifle to take pot shots at seagulls. I have seen people shooting next to houses with pets/children & too close to roads & paths.

thats illegal and would loose their gun licence you should have called the guards

Discodog wrote: »

Good point but also you have the Catholic teaching regarding animals, the general level of ignorance, & an inexplicable belief, by many, that animal can be treated in any way that a human sees fit.

Hmmmm not too sure if cruelity to animals is part of catholic teaching (I don't remember it anyway)but you definitely get bonus points for trying to blame them for it. well done!

Discodog wrote: »

It's not just with wildlife. Our animal welfare laws & practices are about 20 to 30 years behind much of Europe. The Convention on Pet Animals was signed by most of Europe 20 years ago but we refused to sign.

As yes the rest of europe where hunting for pleasure isn't really an issue its just something that people do and no one feels guilty about it.

kildare.17hmr

Discodog wrote: »

So would you line up some dead Cats & photograph them for the "lads" to enjoy ? If not then why not ? Maybe you might be a little worried about the photo ending up in the press ?

if i shot a load of ferals then yes i guess i would

Les Stocker, who is one of the World's most highly regarded experts on Foxes, would disagree & so would I. It is a common argument that hunting makes a population healthier. Someone who is killing Foxes, on the pretence of protecting stock, is going to kill whatever Fox comes their way - they aren't going to be selective.

the local fox comunity as a whole will be helthier because there is less competition for food which in turn will reduce atracks on stock or poultry. I dont want to eradicate foxes because i think they are a nice animal and iv often watched them and not pulled the trigger in areas where the land is farmed and they are not a risk to anything other than rabbits really

There are thousands of gun owners & you only know a tiny percentage of them. The shooting forum is bound to attract enthusiasts, some of whom may take a strange pride in what they do. But all of the hunters, that have posted here have been deemed by a Garda Superintendent to be suitable people to own a gun. That is disturbing.

I know that the shooting community are wary of this. They don't really want to be associated with the hunting with dogs crowd - in case it gets banned. But at the end of the day all of you are prepared to casually kill as per the subject of the thread. But you take it to a new level in that is your hobby, your pastime, so it could be viewed as even worse than just casual killing.

suitable in the sense that they are law abiding citizens who pose no danger to the public while carrying a firearm. They are acting within the guidlines of the law. Gun owners are probably the most scrutanised group of people in this country.

Yes i know a small percentage of these people but i was making a statment which has come from MY personal experience and that of most of the people i speak to about it. You get bad apples in all walks of life but you cant judge an entire comunity by the actions of a few. Do we judge all drivers as being irrisponsable becase a few drink and drive or speed passed schools? No we deal with the ones breaking the law same as shooting with people caught lamping deer for instance who have licences revoked and guns taken and rightly so.

Everytime a thread like this comes up you spout out the same sh!te about hunters being a bad bunch, except of course the ones you know who are involved in organised culls or are "licenced professionals", do you think these people dont take pleasure or enjoy what they are doing or do it as a passtime Or hobby? Sure you have never even met a farmer who considers foxes a pest because they built hugely expensive walls and pens for chickens and lambs :rolleyes:

Im sick of having the same conversation with you the last 2 years because all you do is talk out of your arse. You are anti hunting and thats fine its your decision but you try force it down other peoples throaths. Even alot in the animal and pet issues forum are sick of your views at this stage which says alot

Discodog

sheesh wrote: »

So because of something said on the internet by people who my or may not actually shoot/Hunt you have decided that a rethink is in order. well done.

so because these people on the internet say they do not respect animals you plan to use tax payers money and pay people to respect animals when they are killing them.

Also are these views extreme? I don't think you would know, you seem to be completely ignorant of the relationship between humans and animals and how they work, from slaughter houses to farming to people hunting you seem to know nothing about them except what you have read on the internet.

who decides what is a good reason ? people like you? you don't know anything other than what you read on the internet, or maybe people we pay to respect animals.

no one has said that. thats just a sweeping statement.

thats illegal and would loose their gun licence you should have called the guards

Hmmmm not too sure if cruelity to animals is part of catholic teaching (I don't remember it anyway)but you definitely get bonus points for trying to blame them for it. well done!

As yes the rest of europe where hunting for pleasure isn't really an issue its just something that people do and no one feels guilty about it.

I have lived in the Countryside for pretty much all of my life. I have rescued wildlife, worked as an Ecologist & have been closely involved with agriculture so no my views are not dependent on the net. But it is the hunters here who keep referring to the shooting forum & hoisting it as some vanguard for the shooting community.

The comments that I quoted are extreme. The hunting communities label anyone who opposes hunting as an extremist, an Anti, an Animal Rights Activist. They lump everyone together but then complain if others do the same to them.

Yes I would rather pay a professional rather than having someone taking potshots at the local cats. This would benefit the professional shooters as they could earn a living from their sport.

Society decides the laws & reasoning as to what is acceptable & what is not. If the hunting of goats with dogs was publicised or the shooting of cats there would be an outcry. You would argue that the people who complain are just ignorant & not entitled to a view.

If you accept that there are shooters out there who are not good upstanding people then clearly the gun ownership rules need strengthening.

I did call the Guards.

The Catholic church only recently decided that animals have souls & the bible refers to our domain over the creatures.

seamus

Anyone who hunts with a gun is a pussy. Any idiot can fire a bullet from 50 metres to kill an animal.

At least have the ethical strength to give the animal a fair fight; a hand-crafted spear, or better yet use just your bare hands.
At least then you're being intellectually honest that you're actually hunting rather than just overcompensating for your own inadequacies by shooting animals in complete safety.

Discodog

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

the local fox comunity as a whole will be helthier because there is less competition for food which in turn will reduce atracks on stock or poultry. I dont want to eradicate foxes because i think they are a nice animal and iv often watched them and not pulled the trigger in areas where the land is farmed and they are not a risk to anything other than rabbits really

So you admit that a lot of foxes are shot unnecessarily.

kildare.17hmr wrote: »

suitable in the sense that they are law abiding citizens who pose no danger to the public while carrying a firearm.

Perhaps if the Guards were aware of what some of them really think they might not be so keen to issue permits. We all know that Irish law is based on whether the person "comes from a good family" :rolleyes:

So it is OK for you to speak from your personal experience but when someone else does it you accuse them of generalisations.

I have probably met way more farmers than you have. At one time I was visiting three farms every working day. My work depended on the co-operation of the farmers. Even now I have a good friendship with the farmers in my locality.

It's a bit rich saying that I am trying to force opinions down people's throats - I have not posted here any more than the hunting community. It's called a discussion & it's why we are all here. I suspect that the hunters dislike the idea of any opposing opinion - they are not really used to it in Ireland.

The Boards hunters hate being criticised. They leap, on mass, to any thread that dares to offer a different view.

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

Anyone who hunts with a gun is a pussy. Any idiot can fire a bullet from 50 metres to kill an animal.

At least have the ethical strength to give the animal a fair fight; a hand-crafted spear, or better yet use just your bare hands.
At least then you're being intellectually honest that you're actually hunting rather than just overcompensating for your own inadequacies by shooting animals in complete safety.

Pighead wrote: »

Everybody has a seamus. That person whose opinion you trust 100%.

This comment was made about seamus in this recent AH thread & 184 people, plus me, thanked it.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=79326660

14 pages extolling the virtues of the man & yet another seamus post that I totally agree with

homerhop

Anyone who hunts with a gun is a pussy. Any idiot can fire a bullet from 50 metres to kill an animal.

That statement shows you know absolutely nothing about shooting. I will gladly put up a 4 inch target at 50 meters for you and after going through the basics of safety see how well you can hit it.

You forgot to use the other terms those opposed to hunting use such as knuckle dragging, Neanderthals, baby killers, psychopaths.....please feel free to add any I may have not mentioned. It seems to be a common basis for your ilk when in "discussions about hunting" that you cannot debate your points but have to go down a route of silly name calling.

At least have the ethical strength to give the animal a fair fight; a hand-crafted spear, or better yet use just your bare hands.

I have caught rabbits, and fish with my bare hands.

I have probably met way more farmers than you have. At one time I was visiting three farms every working day. My work depended on the co-operation of the farmers. Even now I have a good friendship with the farmers in my locality.

Funnily enough those of us who hunt have the full backing of the farmers whos lands we are allowed to use. I too have a great friendship with the farmers in my locality who often stop for a chat if they have not seen me for a while and tell me to head across their lands for a shot anytime I want.

It's a bit rich saying that I am trying to force opinions down people's throats

Something you have never been accuses of before .....

I suspect that the hunters dislike the idea of any opposing opinion - they are not really used to it in Ireland.

As opposed to those who oppose hunting and despite saying they are always open to a good discussion or debate, but yet cannot sit down with someone and look at things form their point of view and discuss it in a reasonable manner.

The Boards hunters hate being criticised. They leap, on mass, to any thread that dares to offer a different view.

I see you still still have flair for the tabloid dramatics. There are only a few posters here from the hunting section, and this is my first post in this thread.
I suppose there have never been a few posters from the animal welfare section posting together in a thread at the same time.

yet another seamus post that I totally agree with

Well you do seem to have a hard on for him for the past couple of years

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

Anyone who hunts with a gun is a pussy. .

Some are even Pussies shooting Pussies

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

That statement shows you know absolutely nothing about shooting. I will gladly put up a 4 inch target at 50 meters for you and after going through the basics of safety see how well you can hit it.

What has target shooting to do with one's ability to stalk & shoot a wild animal without causing it distress & suffering.

homerhop wrote: »

You forgot to use the other terms those opposed to hunting use such as knuckle dragging, Neanderthals, baby killers, psychopaths.....please feel free to add any I may have not mentioned. It seems to be a common basis for your ilk when in "discussions about hunting" that you cannot debate your points but have to go down a route of silly name calling.

And the hunters never resort to name calling

homerhop wrote: »

I have caught rabbits, and fish with my bare hands.

Ye Gods that's brave - must be quite battle

homerhop wrote: »

Funnily enough those of us who hunt have the full backing of the farmers whos lands we are allowed to use. I too have a great friendship with the farmers in my locality who often stop for a chat if they have not seen me for a while and tell me to head across their lands for a shot anytime I want.

I didn't say that you didn't. I pointed out my relationship with farmers because I was accused of not knowing what I was talking about.

homerhop wrote: »

Something you have never been accuses of before .....

Only by people like you & those that support your views. I never start threads on hunting & I never post in the hunting forum. Most of my posts in this thread are direct answers to comments.

homerhop wrote: »

I suppose there have never been a few posters from the animal welfare section posting together in a thread at the same time.

Boards don't have an Animal Welfare Section - they closed it. You have your hunting forum & you are left unhindered to discuss your hobby unlike many animal lovers. Waits for Hellrazer to wade in

homerhop wrote: »

Well you do seem to have a hard on for him for the past couple of years

I respect what he has done for Boards & what he tried to do regarding animal welfare discussion. Anyway I will have to wait my turn as hundreds of Boardies have hard-ons for seamus

sheesh

Discodog wrote: »

I have lived in the Countryside for pretty much all of my life. I have rescued wildlife, worked as an Ecologist & have been closely involved with agriculture so no my views are not dependent on the net. But it is the hunters here who keep referring to the shooting forum & hoisting it as some vanguard for the shooting community.

Well then I stand corrected!

Discodog wrote: »

The comments that I quoted are extreme. The hunting communities label anyone who opposes hunting as an extremist, an Anti, an Animal Rights Activist. They lump everyone together but then complain if others do the same to them.

in fairness I imagine the anti hunting crowd probably started that whole 'that lot over there are crazy' lark

Discodog wrote: »

Yes I would rather pay a professional rather than having someone taking potshots at the local cats. This would benefit the professional shooters as they could earn a living from their sport.

I don't think you should be ordering hits on local pets. feral cats yes but also foxes ( I too think they are fantastic btw) if they are taking lambs or other farm animals.

Discodog wrote: »

Society decides the laws & reasoning as to what is acceptable & what is not. If the hunting of goats with dogs was publicised or the shooting of cats there would be an outcry. You would argue that the people who complain are just ignorant & not entitled to a view.

Governments decide which laws to enact they need to be pushed to do it too if there isn't a public outcry or an organised campaign to make it happen it will not happen. hunting wild goats with dogs probably would cause an outcry as they are seen as a natural part of the environment. less so with wild cats I'd imagine.
No I did not argue that at all everyone is entitled to a view but if we are having a discussion on a topic on a subject lets have an informed discussion we had people in the thread saying that they 'couldn't kill a fox because they are so amazing' (not a direct quote) thats a view, and I agree foxes are pretty cool looking animals but I think a farmers livelyhood takes precidence in a country where there are plenty foxes. as for the 'they should build a wall comment' christ almighty how much I don't know where to start on that one. Alot of the things i was dismissing were throw away comments from uninformed people.

Discodog wrote: »

If you accept that there are shooters out there who are not good upstanding people then clearly the gun ownership rules need strengthening.

No Law is any good if the public are unwilling to report or the gardai do not have the resources to police it.

Discodog wrote: »

The Catholic church only recently decided that animals have souls & the bible refers to our domain over the creatures.

I have never heard of anyone using catholic teaching to justify cruelty to animals.

dodderangler

Im waiting for some idiot to turn round and say
'How would you like if you were a fox and I shot you'
Reason why I say this is because the people making posts about how we shouldn't kill anything are full of it!

seamus

homerhop wrote: »

That statement shows you know absolutely nothing about shooting. I will gladly put up a 4 inch target at 50 meters for you and after going through the basics of safety see how well you can hit it.

I'm not talking about shooting. I've no problem with shooting in principle. I can see and understand the appeal in target shooting, and even the primal enjoyment one can gain out of shooting a proper live-ammo weapon.

It seems to be a common basis for your ilk when in "discussions about hunting" that you cannot debate your points but have to go down a route of silly name calling.

My "ilk"?
I don't bother debating the point with hunters as I don't expect them to accept my point of view any better than I will accept theirs.

There is no good reason in a first world country to engage in hunting live animals for sport. I consider anyone who does so to be a completely vile pathetic excuse for a person and I have no respect for any such person.

I have limited tolerance for the weak excuse of "pest control", only because it would be a valid form of hunting if there weren't a whole host of viable alternatives available.

So no, I don't bother putting across any points because I'd be wasting my breath. I'd rather just come along at the end of what has no doubt been a long and frustratingly pointless thread and cause a few hunting nuts to blow a gasket.

I have caught rabbits, and fish with my bare hands.

Yeah, I've heard they can leave a nasty bite. Would you not try something with a little more meat, like a fox or a small bear? Where's the adrenaline rush in catching a rabbit?

Discodog

seamus wrote: »

I'd rather just come along at the end of what has no doubt been a long and frustratingly pointless thread and cause a few hunting nuts to blow a gasket.

If a few hunting nuts blow a gasket then it's not all pointless

It also opens up the delights of goat hunting & cat shooting to the wider world.

Witcher

This thread has become ridiculous, lock it ffs.

It wasn't me!

Discodog wrote: »

What has target shooting to do with one's ability to stalk & shoot a wild animal without causing it distress & suffering.

Seriously? It's all-important. You practise extensively on the range to be worth a damn shooting game. For every shot I fire on game, I'll fire hundreds at the range, and if I didn't, I'd have fcuk all hope of hitting the animal, let alone killing it cleanly. I want to hit eight inch targets consistently out to about 400 yards, and that means practice, and lots of it.

Odysseus

Discodog wrote: »

I used to have respect for some of the hunters. But comments about shooting cats, hunting goats with dogs & a spear, the only good fox is a dead fox & a psychology mod saying that anyone who opposes hunting is suffering from hysteria/addiction/OCD, make me think again.

I really wonder if people with such extreme views should ever be allowed to possess a gun. If wildlife needs controlling then maybe it should be done by licensed professionals who we can rely on to dispatch the animal & treat it with respect. The wildlife of Ireland belongs to all of us. No individual should have the right to kill without a good reason.

There is also this misapprehension that every shooter is a good upstanding responsible person. Some of the remarks here show the opposite. I have heard locally that two men were using a rifle to take pot shots at seagulls. I have seen people shooting next to houses with pets/children & too close to roads & paths.



Good point but also you have the Catholic teaching regarding animals, the general level of ignorance, & an inexplicable belief, by many, that animal can be treated in any way that a human sees fit.

It's not just with wildlife. Our animal welfare laws & practices are about 20 to 30 years behind much of Europe. The Convention on Pet Animals was signed by most of Europe 20 years ago but we refused to sign.

I did not say everybody. Please re-read post

homerhop

What has target shooting to do with one's ability to stalk & shoot a wild animal without causing it distress & suffering.

Come on Discodog keep up, it was in response to a poster saying ani "idiot" can fire a gun from 50 meters and kill an animal, if you cant get shot placement on paper you shouldnt be shooting. That is why you see lads who shoot practising on paper targets.

And the hunters never resort to name calling http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images...s/rolleyes.gif

I never said they dont, but you should know by now from our many exchanges I dont go down that road when discussing with you but yet have had to point out to you how you state you are always open for a good discussion after you forget yourself and get all silly with the childish name calling.

Ye Gods that's brave - must be quite battle http://b-static.net/vbulletin/images...es/biggrin.gif

Sarcasim always something to fall back when you get an answer you dont like :rolleyes:

Only by people like you & those that support your views. I never start threads on hunting & I never post in the hunting forum. Most of my posts in this thread are direct answers to comments.

It seems to be there is are a few mods who are quiet opposed to my views who think differently. You never post in the hunting form cos you were called up to back up statements you made there and couldnt, then went running back to the API forum saying how you were mistreated.

Boards don't have an Animal Welfare Section - they closed it. You have your hunting forum & you are left unhindered to discuss your hobby unlike many animal lovers. Waits for Hellrazer to wade in

Yes and just as it is stated in the hunting section all discussion is welcome as long as you adhere to the forum rules, the same as the API has rules. Those of us who post in the hunting are welcome as long as we adhere to them, I do recall some of the senior posters in API posting in the shooting forum and receiving quite a warm response. Perhaps its just you

Discodog

Odysseus wrote: »

I did not say everybody. Please re-read post

I did & here it is:

Odysseus wrote: »

Lads, by this I mean the hunters why bother engage with those ott antis, I won't. They are nearly cumming with delight on threads like this. I have better things to do than help them get off on the net; it appears they live for it, not saving the animals, the sexual kick they get off threads like this. It just facilitating their hysteria/addiction/OCD imo

Those "ott Antis" does seem to be the accepted term for anyone who opposes hunting. What with your comments above & the other poster's references to my "hard on for seamus", maybe you got confused by so many sexual references.

Odysseus

Discodog wrote: »

I did & here it is:



Those "ott Antis" does seem to be the accepted term for anyone who opposes hunting. What with your comments above & the other poster's references to my "hard on for seamus", maybe you got confused by so many sexual references.

Over the top, does not describe a person who thinks/believes hunting is wrong.

Discodog

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Seriously? It's all-important. You practise extensively on the range to be worth a damn shooting game. For every shot I fire on game, I'll fire hundreds at the range, and if I didn't, I'd have fcuk all hope of hitting the animal, let alone killing it cleanly. I want to hit eight inch targets consistently out to about 400 yards, and that means practice, and lots of it.

I have never known a farmer who doesn't own a shotgun & I can't ever recall one who practices on a range. They learn by going out as a youngster & taking potshots. The hunters here keep referring to precision, skill etc that probably applies more to rifle shooting than shotguns. Yet I have seen literally hundreds of animals & birds that have suffered due to shotgun wounds.

Discodog

Odysseus wrote: »

Over the top, does not describe a person who thinks/believes hunting is wrong.

It depends on how you define over the top. In any event I don't think that anyone would deserve the diatribe that you posted. It was just another example of extremism & criticising the posters rather than their comments.

homerhop

So no, I don't bother putting across any points because I'd be wasting my breath.

I am getting to know that feeling

I'd rather just come along at the end of what has no doubt been a long and frustratingly pointless thread and cause a few hunting nuts to blow a gasket

These type threads always are long and frustratingly pointless and always will be, there will always be the few peta brigade (oh god its contagious ) getting their hemp undies in a twist.

Yeah, I've heard they can leave a nasty bite. Would you not try something with a little more meat, like a fox or a small bear? Where's the adrenaline rush in catching a rabbit?

Not really the bites but hell those back nails can hurt like hell. Fraid we have no small bears here and I dont want to over indulge on the fox meat tis bad for the hips , but it sure is fun chasing them pesky wabbits

kildare.17hmr

Discodog wrote: »

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Seriously? It's all-important. You practise extensively on the range to be worth a damn shooting game. For every shot I fire on game, I'll fire hundreds at the range, and if I didn't, I'd have fcuk all hope of hitting the animal, let alone killing it cleanly. I want to hit eight inch targets consistently out to about 400 yards, and that means practice, and lots of it.

I have never known a farmer who doesn't own a shotgun & I can't ever recall one who practices on a range. They learn by going out as a youngster & taking potshots. The hunters here keep referring to precision, skill etc that probably applies more to rifle shooting than shotguns. Yet I have seen literally hundreds of animals & birds that have suffered due to shotgun wounds.

Are these the same farmers who would never shoot a fox?

Not everyone practices true but anyone who does it as a hobbie will practice alot be that targets with a rifle or clays with a shotgun

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

there will always be the few peta brigade

Funnily enough, though Peta is always mentioned, I don't know anyone who supports them. They have run some good & valid campaigns like the Fur one but then they go bonkers & refer to fish as the lambs of the sea :pac:

Odysseus

Discodog wrote: »

It depends on how you define over the top. In any event I don't think that anyone would deserve the diatribe that you posted. It was just another example of extremism & criticising the posters rather than their comments.

And I no going to get sucked into your attempts to just keeping posting and posting going nowhere. Which only facilitate you to carry on, which is why I advised people not to engage, giving you your place at Speakers corner. Which you like to take at every chance. Post what you like, my response is no response.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

I have never known a farmer who doesn't own a shotgun & I can't ever recall one who practices on a range.The hunters here keep referring to precision, skill etc that probably applies more to rifle shooting than shotguns. Yet I have seen literally hundreds of animals & birds that have suffered due to shotgun wounds.

Guess ya dont know the farmers as well as you say you do. I know quiet a few who have never owned a gun, my uncle being one

Precision and skill is something to be acheived in every aspect of life.

I have seen hundreds of birds and animals suffer due to cars, trains and busses, should we not ban them too after all you have 2 legs or get a bike :rolleyes:

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

Come on Discodog keep up, it was in response to a poster saying ani "idiot" can fire a gun from 50 meters and kill an animal, if you cant get shot placement on paper you shouldnt be shooting. That is why you see lads who shoot practising on paper targets.

I reckon that I could give the idiot a rifle with a decent telescopic & he'd make a kill at 50 yards - provided he had something to steady the gun on . I used to target shoot with standard sights & it wasn't that difficult to hit an area big enough for a kill, if it had been an animal. I have also practised on animal dummies - there was a possibility of doing some darting. I have seen young lads put down bread & then shoot the birds with an air rifle - so it can't be that difficult. I accept that there are hunters who are practice & have good skills. I just don't accept that they make up the majority of gun owners.

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

I have seen hundreds of birds and animals suffer due to cars, trains and busses, should we not ban them too after all you have 2 legs or get a bike :rolleyes:

Those are killed accidentally & not deliberately.

homerhop

I reckon that I could give the idiot a rifle with a decent telescopic & he'd make a kill at 50 yards - provided he had something to steady the gun on .

you dont always have something to steady on, and depending on the magnification of the scope can be a hindrance, you having being shown to dispatch should know these things

I used to target shoot with standard sights & it wasn't that difficult to hit an area big enough for a kill, if it had been an animal.

Or a starling

I have also practised on animal dummies - there was a possibility of doing some darting

Last of the great white hunters... I know , I just couldnt pass up on that line.

I have seen young lads put down bread & then shoot the birds with an air rifle - so it can't be that difficult

ya cant put an old head on young shoulders.

I just don't accept that they make up the majority of gun owners.

I have been shooting for a long time and yes there are things changing, people taking up the sport have more access to ranges then there was when i started. There is a lot more infromation out there and courses on shooting. You see the questions being asked on the shooting forum all the time from equipment to breathing techniques so I would say yes the majority of gun owners out there at the moment are practising and improving their skills all the time, myself included.

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

Those are killed accidentally & not deliberately.

But you always say no animal needs to die needlessly

Longfellow

NegativeCreep wrote: »

. The foxes ive seen around my area seem really placid and nice and I just dont see what people have against them.

L

I used to dig out alot of foxes in my day. I now just leave them alone, they are great to control the rabbits/rats around the place. We lamb our sheep indoors now and rarely lose a lamb to da fox. da gunclub members are not allowed shoot any foxes on our patch of land now. They do more good than harm around our place. different story if ya lamb outdoors though

NegativeCreep

Longfellow wrote: »

I used to dig out alot of foxes in my day. I now just leave them alone, they are great to control the rabbits/rats around the place. We lamb our sheep indoors now and rarely lose a lamb to da fox. da gunclub members are not allowed shoot any foxes on our patch of land now. They do more good than harm around our place. different story if ya lamb outdoors though

See that's an example of the things that can be done to stop hunting. Lamb inside. Why can't everyone just lamb inside or farm everything inside and then no foxes need to be killed win win.

garv123

NegativeCreep wrote: »

See that's an example of the things that can be done to stop hunting. Lamb inside. Why can't everyone just lamb inside or farm everything inside and then no foxes need to be killed win win.

Because not every farmer has/can afford the facilities to lamb inside.

Buddly

....there was a..spider...in the bath...this morning...

Witcher

Longfellow wrote: »

I used to dig out alot of foxes in my day. I now just leave them alone, they are great to control the rabbits/rats around the place. We lamb our sheep indoors now and rarely lose a lamb to da fox. da gunclub members are not allowed shoot any foxes on our patch of land now. They do more good than harm around our place. different story if ya lamb outdoors though

Pity the deer don't get the same consoderation down there eh?:pac:

garv123

Blay wrote: »

Pity the deer don't get the same consoderation down there eh?:pac:

or the pheasants