Casually killing creatures

Cocolola

Sorry but I have to come back to the pictures thing. As was pointed out earlier by muckyhands, you don't see pics of a cow being posed next to a knife after being killed or a pic of a hanging carcass on your steak packaging so why the need for pictures from hunters?

Like these [GRAPHIC] pictures for example, I don't understand the need for them or why anyone would want to share them.

Also nobody has answered why cats are vilified for killing birds yet crows and magpies are fair game?

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

But you always say no animal needs to die needlessly

Never said that. I said unnecessarily. Although a lot of road deaths can be avoided. The Galway to Rosaveel road is carnage ally. At night the cars reach 70 mph so any wildlife or cat hasn't a hope.

I was trained to dispatch but with a pistol & at point blank range. Even in those days the UK police wouldn't be happy with someone carrying a rifle at all hours of the night !

I nearly shot a bird as a kid, with my new air rifle. They used to line up on the roof like targets in a fairground gallery. But I didn't even though my brother was a keen shooter until his Damascus moment when he swapped the gun for a camera.

Great White Hunter ! It was going to be for radio tracking deer but the project was abandoned. Probably a good thing as darting requires a lot of practice. Getting close to a wild deer to shoot is one thing but getting close enough to dart is a whole new ball game.

I think that teaching fieldcraft is just as important as being able to shoot straight. Identifying the correct species, age, sex etc & how to be safe. In the past few years I have known two shooters who accidentally shot their own dogs & one who shot his mate - luckily none were fatal. In the past I have been in woodland & heard the sound of shot passing through the trees above my head.

Witcher

Discodog wrote: »

I nearly shot a bird as a kid, with my new air rifle. They used to line up on the roof like targets in a fairground gallery

You were firing up into the air? Bold boy:pac:

garv123

Cocolola wrote: »

Also nobody has answered why cats are vilified for killing birds yet crows and magpies are fair game?

Your pet domestic cat isn't meant to be allowed out killing birds. People think their cat is entitled to kill what it wants.

The owner should be held responsible if the cat is killing protected wild birds. you can bet the owner would be responsible if their dogs were going off killing deer. Cats seem to be allowed wonder around and do what they like as a free spirit.
I dont shoot cats as I know my cat wanders around the place in the field behind my house so I know pet cats do wander away from the house too.

Longfellow

Blay wrote: »

Pity the deer don't get the same consoderation down there eh?:pac:

Sika deer/hybrids do damage to my native forestry and are introduced non-native species. They vermin in my eyes and get whacked. (section 42 by gunclub members).

Discodog

garv123 wrote: »

I dont shoot cats as I know my cat wanders around the place in the field behind my house so I know pet cats do wander away from the house too.

Don't worry the lad's here will be able to tell that it's yours & not a Feral :rolleyes:

garv123

Longfellow wrote: »

. (section 42 by gunclub members).

sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :rolleyes:

Witcher

Longfellow wrote: »

Sika deer/hybrids do damage to my native forestry and are introduced non-native species. They vermin in my eyes and get whacked. (section 42 by gunclub members).

But you didnt wait for a S42 did you? Lamp ftw eh?:pac:

garv123

Blay wrote: »

But you didnt wait for a S42 did you? Lamp ftw eh?:pac:

No doubt the dogs he uses on goats get a share too.

Longfellow

garv123 wrote: »

or the pheasants

Pheasants compete with native birds, ya think 100's of pheasants ateing loads of insects don't compete with native critters. pheasants be non native birds. Pheasasnts be vermin and get whacked heavily:) (during shootin season).

Longfellow

garv123 wrote: »

No doubt the dogs he uses on goats get a share too.

the dogs do like some venison:)

Discodog

Cocolola wrote: »

Also nobody has answered why cats are vilified for killing birds yet crows and magpies are fair game?

Crows & Magpies are wild animals & their numbers are balanced by nature so we don't have to intervene on the pretence that we are protecting other bird except maybe with a specific species sanctuary.

Cats are domestic animals & there are steps that owners can take to reduce their likelihood of killing birds. A simple bell or bib can make a dramatic difference - yes the bibs look daft but I have read that they really work.

A friend of mine has a typical estate garden & he loves encouraging bird life. We used plants like Berberis to create areas of the garden that were cat proof & safe for the birds to feed & nest in.

Witcher

Discodog wrote: »

A friend of mine has a typical estate garden & he loves encouraging bird life. We used plants like Berberis to create areas of the garden that were cat proof & safe for the birds to feed & nest in.

Fantastic...meanwhile in the real world...feral cats continue to kill birds.

These miracle solutions to these problems do not translate to reality...if such ideas were runners they would be used.

Discodog

garv123 wrote: »

No doubt the dogs he uses on goats get a share too.

That was probably bravado - the youtube clip was from Australia. Maybe that's where he got the idea for the spear

I have this vision of some tourists meeting the Long Man bear chested with a spear in his hand & knife between his teeth :eek:

steddyeddy

Just curious is hunting using archery illegal here?

Witcher

steddyeddy wrote: »

Just curious is hunting using archery illegal here?

Yeah it is.

Discodog

Blay wrote: »

Fantastic...meanwhile in the real world...feral cats continue to kill birds.

These miracle solutions to these problems do not translate to reality...if such ideas were runners they would be used.

Feral cats are rarely quoted as a problem for birds. The real issue is domestic cats in urban gardens where the majority of song birds tend to be these days. We had proper wildcats for thousands of years & the birds did just fine. Feral numbers will adjust naturally to the food source just as the Wildcats did - before we killed them all.

Discodog

Blay wrote: »

Yeah it is.

Didn't stop that cat being killed by a crossbow bolt.

steddyeddy

Blay wrote: »

steddyeddy wrote: »

Just curious is hunting using archery illegal here?

Yeah it is.

Thanks it was hugely popular in America. I was just wondering why not here.

homerhop

I nearly shot a bird as a kid, with my new air rifle.

I do recall you saying you shot one in front of your friends, strange the way you like stories to chaneg to suit, was that not your guilt ridden moment that turned your whole life around????

Probably a good thing as darting requires a lot of practice. Getting close to a wild deer to shoot is one thing but getting close enough to dart is a whole new ball game.

As does any form of rifle shooting, and can you honestly say you didnt enjoy trying to get that close to the animal?

I think that teaching fieldcraft is just as important as being able to shoot straight. Identifying the correct species, age, sex etc & how to be safe. In the past few years I have known two shooters who accidentally shot their own dogs & one who shot his mate - luckily none were fatal. In the past I have been in woodland & heard the sound of shot passing through the trees above my head.

Education is the key and I agree with you on that.
Regards the accidents, there is one major factor there and that is human stupidity. There will always be idiots be it driving a car to flying a kite and that will never change.

Witcher

Discodog wrote: »

Didn't stop that cat being killed by a crossbow bolt.

What?

kildare.17hmr

Cocolola wrote: »

Like these [GRAPHIC] pictures for example, I don't understand the need for them or why anyone would want to share them.

Ill explain this. There has been alot of debate on the caliber used in that thread and if it is as suitable as others of similar size. That thread was showing the capabilities of a specific round and stuff like that is very helpful to others when making a decision on what to buy. He did have in the thread title that it was graphic. No one takes pleasure in the gory pics that was about showing what that round can do.

homerhop

Crows & Magpies are wild animals & their numbers are balanced by nature so we don't have to intervene on the pretence that we are protecting other bird except maybe with a specific species sanctuary.

I was at a conference lately regarding the Bora bog project, when the subject of grey crows was discussed. Within 2 weeks of a pair nesting in an area, the remains of 35 different bird species eggs were found and all attributed to the nesting grey pair. I dont see any natural preditor for grey crows around

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

Didn't stop that cat being killed by a crossbow bolt.

Or hit with hurleys, golf clubs ets

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

I do recall you saying you shot one in front of your friends, strange the way you like stories to chaneg to suit, was that not your guilt ridden moment that turned your whole life around????

I am not changing anything. Yes I shot a bird once & I thought about doing it again & decided against it with the hindsight of a bit more age.

So are you arguing that Grey Crows have suddenly appeared ? Or that they once had a natural predator ? Shooters claim to be so in touch with nature but they keep wanting to interfere with it.

Bora is a nice idea provided that shooting isn't included as one of the family activities :rolleyes:

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

Feral cats are rarely quoted as a problem for birds. The real issue is domestic cats in urban gardens where the majority of song birds tend to be these days. We had proper wildcats for thousands of years & the birds did just fine. Feral numbers will adjust naturally to the food source just as the Wildcats did - before we killed them all.

There are plenty of reports and studies to disagree with you about feral cats
http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/cats_ecological_impacts.pdf

http://issuu.com/the-wildlife-professional/docs/feralcats
Page 50 on the linked article

http://ocpets.ocregister.com/2010/12/02/feral-cats-impact-on-birds-17-billion/75020

homerhop

Discodog wrote: »

So are you arguing that Grey Crows have suddenly appeared ? Or that they once had a natural predator ? Shooters claim to be so in touch with nature but they keep wanting to interfere with it.

Bora is a nice idea provided that shooting isn't included as one of the family activities :rolleyes:

No I am not saying greys have suddenly appeared, i am showing how they impact on an area, and you still have not shown me how they have natural preditors to balance them.

Discodog you are well aware Bora is a nature reserve and the only ones allowed to shoot there are one or two individuals involved in the project.

Longfellow

homerhop wrote: »

I was at a conference lately regarding the Bora bog project, when the subject of grey crows was discussed. Within 2 weeks of a pair nesting in an area, the remains of 35 different bird species eggs were found and all attributed to the nesting grey pair. I dont see any natural preditor for grey crows around

female sparrowhawk will ate young grey crows. buzzards will also take them usually young lads

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

There are plenty of reports and studies to disagree with you about feral cats
http://joomla.wildlife.org/documents/cats_ecological_impacts.pdf

http://issuu.com/the-wildlife-professional/docs/feralcats
Page 50 on the linked article

http://ocpets.ocregister.com/2010/12/02/feral-cats-impact-on-birds-17-billion/75020

They are all American studies. Often they lump domestic cats that roam in with Ferals. Whenever I have heard this discussed by the RSPB the inference is that Ferals take far less birds than domestic cats because song birds have tended to move to urban gardens. But there are lots of charities in the UK dealing with Ferals unlike here & I suspect that the neutering percentage is a lot higher as well.

Hunters tend to be selective. A Feral is bad for birds but brilliant for a farmer who want to control rats & mice. Farmers always used to have a few Ferals in the barn for this purpose. So some Farmers might welcome a Feral just as some might welcome a Fox.

The farm cat highlights how difficult it is to define Feral. The farmer would consider it to be his cat but he doesn't feed, neuter or have personal interaction with it so it becomes Feral. A neighbour of mine was actually asking if anyone knew of some stray kittens as his father wanted a couple for the barn.

I would totally agree that all cats pose a threat to wildlife but that can't justify shooting them.

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

No I am not saying greys have suddenly appeared, i am showing how they impact on an area, and you still have not shown me how they have natural preditors to balance them.

Discodog you are well aware Bora is a nature reserve and the only ones allowed to shoot there are one or two individuals involved in the project.

Is that why you got involved ?

Lots of predators impact on areas - it's called nature. Let's make a nature reserve & then interfere with it. The UK has far greater areas of reserves, trust lands & national parks. You won't find people shooting on them except for licensed culls.

cartell_best

Odysseus wrote: »

Just because you had that experience does not make it a normal part of human subjectivity.

Having that experience made me human and made me realise moreso, I could not "casually kill a creature". How dare you be so general with such a sweeping statement. I was simply stating my own personal experience and how I associate accidental with deliberate, from my perspective. I would not intentionally hurt a defenceless creature. You seem to be missing the point! Is it not the point of such threads that we can state our reasons for our opinion?

Joey the lips

I try not to kill anything except rats and mice. Simply because they are vermon and disease carrying.

I dont even kill plants because to be honest i believe them to be alive.

After that. What more is there to say.

Discodog

cartell_best wrote: »

Having that experience made me human and made me realise moreso, I could not "casually kill a creature". How dare you be so general with such a sweeping statement. I was simply stating my own personal experience and how I associate accidental with deliberate, from my perspective. I would not intentionally hurt a defenceless creature. You seem to be missing the point! Is it not the point of such threads that we can state our reasons for our opinion?

It must mean that us animal lovers are not normal :rolleyes:. I would of felt exactly the same way as you did & I suspect that many, if not the majority, would as well. I have had to euthanase hundreds of injured animals & I hated doing it & felt guilt every time but it was unavoidable. I wasn't doing it out of choice.

sheesh

Discodog wrote: »

If a few hunting nuts blow a gasket then it's not all pointless

It also opens up the delights of goat hunting & cat shooting to the wider world.

the animal rights nuts are out in force too ye know. its sweeping statements as far as the eye can see. Its quiet majestic.

I'm reminded of wildebeest they produce alot of ****.

homerhop

They are all American studies

Ah yes, silly me. Unless it is an english study it must be taken with a grain of salt :rolleyes:

Hunters tend to be selective

no more so than those opposed to hunting.

I would totally agree that all cats pose a threat to wildlife but that can't justify shooting them.

The Australian government seem to have a different view about that.

Is that why you got involved ?

any chance to drag my knuckles and go on a killing spree
You would be surprised what I am involved with but then it would go against the grain of everything you like to portray us hunters in, as you say it may make us hunters look normal :rolleyes:

Lots of predators impact on areas - it's called nature

yes and us humans seem to be leading the way on that one.

Let's make a nature reserve & then interfere with it

Show me one that isn't interfered with in some way or another?

You won't find people shooting on them except for licensed culls

as stated already the only ones allowed to shoot on the boora bog reserve are one or two individuals given permission by the state and who are involved in the partridge scheme.

Discodog

sheesh wrote: »

the animal rights nuts are out in force too ye know. its sweeping statements as far as the eye can see. Its quiet majestic.

I'm reminded of wildebeest they produce alot of ****.

When I moved back here I heard a lot about these "animal rights" activists. I imagined an Irish version of the ALF but in reality it's a few well meaning but somewhat misguided people. The sweeping statements work both ways. I have never seen one of these threads where people are not lumped together as "Anti's"

I am reminded of the Ostrich who is supposed to have his head so far into the sand that he is unaware that the World is changing.

homerhop

The sweeping statements work both ways. I have never seen one of these threads where people are not lumped together as "Anti's"

your pretty fond of lumping all hunters at times too when it suits.

cartell_best

sheesh wrote: »

the animal rights nuts are out in force too ye know. its sweeping statements as far as the eye can see. Its quiet majestic.

I'm reminded of wildebeest they produce alot of ****.

I'm reminded of Elmer Fudd and buggs bunny....but yet even a rabbit outwits a hunter for decades... When you make make such comical comments, are you annoyed that a response can be seen as a basis for nothing more than ridiculous! And you sir/madam, have reminded me that human beings are well and truly capable of uttering the most complete rounding of comments that beggars belief. In any case, attempt to justify a comment that will, without doubt, show what "certain" human beings feel a lack of compassion for.

Discodog

homerhop wrote: »

your pretty fond of lumping all hunters at times too when it suits.

Only in two respects. I think that all hunters enjoy hunting & I think that all hunters kill unnecessarily. So, as per this thread, they all enjoy casual killing. If there were hunters here that had to hunt to survive or to protect themselves then I wouldn't include them. I also wouldn't include someone who, for example, felt that they had to kill a fox to immediately protect lambs or a farmer that had to shoot a dog whilst it was actively attacking his stock.

Another example could be your reserve where it appears that the best way to get birds established is to control their predators. The problem is that you then set a precedent & end up having to kill all sorts of species to maintain a false, artificial nature.

homerhop

in this day and age there is very very little if any land that is left as natural nature.

Conor_Sammon

I do enjoy systematically removing each limb off a daddy longlegs.

muckyhands

dodderangler wrote: »

That's thee worst example I've ever read
Hang your head in shame!
Also pics are displayed for other hunters to appreciate a clean kill and a job done!
Hence why it's in the hunting forum meaning people like you are not welcome on it!!!!!!!

How is that the worst example you ever read?

Hunters hunt 'pests'-

Slugs/ snails are 'pests' yet I dont feel the need to go out lamping them at night with my trusty trained hedgehog and then line them all up, posed for a pic to share with my fellow 'slug sporting' enthusiasts.

You wont see pics of cows/ sheep in pics like that either, because theyre not killed for fun/ sport/ hobby. Theyre meant for the table but you wouldnt get a pat on the back for it.

Longfellow

Discodog wrote: »

Another example could be your reserve where it appears that the best way to get birds established is to control their predators. The problem is that you then set a precedent & end up having to kill all sorts of species to maintain a false, artificial nature.

da reserve he referred to was lough boora parklands. it was set up to protect vthe endangered grey partridge. they was down to only tens of partridge. only for da predator control and habitat restoration the grey partridge would be extinct in ireland. the numbers have increased and surplus birds are being used for further reintroduction in da country. recently birds were reintroduced into north dublin

dodderangler

Joey the lips wrote: »

I try not to kill anything except rats and mice. Simply because they are vermon and disease carrying.

I dont even kill plants because to be honest i believe them to be alive.

After that. What more is there to say.

Your aware rabbits and foxes are classed as vermin aren't you

homerhop

Longfellow ya see the problem there is that the shooting community are not supposed to have an interest in such projects, the mindset from those who do not agree with shooting is that all we want to do is wipe out everything. After all we are the ones responsible for there being no wolves, bears, birds of prey. Hell its even our fault jebus died on the cross
:rolleyes:

dodderangler

muckyhands wrote: »

dodderangler wrote: »

That's thee worst example I've ever read
Hang your head in shame!
Also pics are displayed for other hunters to appreciate a clean kill and a job done!
Hence why it's in the hunting forum meaning people like you are not welcome on it!!!!!!!

How is that the worst example you ever read?

Hunters hunt 'pests'-

Slugs/ snails are 'pests' yet I dont feel the need to go out lamping them at night with my trusty trained hedgehog and then line them all up, posed for a pic to share with my fellow 'slug sporting' enthusiasts.

You wont see pics of cows/ sheep in pics like that either, because theyre not killed for fun/ sport/ hobby. Theyre meant for the table but you wouldnt get a pat on the back for it.

Yet again a useless post!
You don't hunt a cow or a sheep do showing it off says nothing
When you go out hunting you don't always kill something that's why it's called huntin as in you hunt for your quarry
When I go ferretin I look around the burrows for fresh signs that rabbit are in the burrow and still using it and when a rabbit is caught and I put up a pic it's to show off my reward for the hunt

Longfellow

homerhop wrote: »

Longfellow ya see the problem there is that the shooting community are not supposed to have an interest in such projects, the mindset from those who do not agree with shooting is that all we want to do is wipe out everything. After all we are the ones responsible for there being no wolves, bears, birds of prey. Hell its even our fault jebus died on the cross
:rolleyes:

Ireland lost at least 6 breeding raptors, White-tailed Eagle, Osprey, Golden Eagle, Red Kite, Marsh Harrier and Goshawk. These extinctions were a result of persecution and habitat loss. Gamekeepers played a large part in da persection. a great shame on da shooting community in ireland:(

MadameGascar

I try not to, if there's an insect buzzing about the place I think "he's there, enjoying it hopefully so just leave him be" (or if its a wasp just escort him to the door) and let them get on with their life. I was raging over something a few weeks ago and stamped the life out of a few snails unfortunate enough to be there, still wrecked with the guilt! Killing a creature with the intention to eat it or keeping a balance is fine but ending a life for entertainment, you'd have to be a bit twisted.

homerhop

Longfellow wrote: »

Ireland lost at least 6 breeding raptors, White-tailed Eagle, Osprey, Golden Eagle, Red Kite, Marsh Harrier and Goshawk. These extinctions were a result of persecution and habitat loss. Gamekeepers played a large part in da persection. a great shame on da shooting community in ireland:(

How long ago was that? you will see in the shooting section lads posting about birds of prey that they see and how it is a sight to behold.

farmers also had a part to play in the loss of those species and because of agri methods endangered a lot more along with introduced the mixo a great shame on da farming community in ireland

I was not born never mind involved in anything that you have mentioned in the above thread. But you seem to be implying that the next generation should be punished for someone elses sins :rolleyes:

Longfellow

homerhop wrote: »

I was not born never mind involved in anything that you have mentioned in the above thread. But you seem to be implying that the next generation should be punished for someone elses sins :rolleyes:

never said ya were like responsible for the extinctions in ireland. da persection continues toaday with lads poisoning them and numerous buzzards and numbers of white tailed eagles and red kite have been shot:(.
mixy in rabbits was introduced in da 50's. those bird were extict before that so ya can't blame da farmers for that