ESB Great Electric Drive

dev100

I have a question about the cost to charge up theses cars. We pay an excessive amount in duties and taxes on normal fuel. If we all decided to go electric . Surely it makes no economic sense for government to allow this cheaper fuel source. They d lose massive amounts in revenue . How are they going to generate revenue if charging electrically is so cheap?

blindside88

blindside88 wrote: »

That's not out of the ordinary of a lot of people, my daily commute is 160km, was thinking of applying but I don't think they'd take to kindly to me driving the car to it's limit each day wouldn't want to chance a detour

That's more than achievable if you can charge at your destination ? this is the crucial thing. We need more chargers rather than a bigger more expensive battery, and faster chargers are there just not available to us yet. 10 min charging is being tested by Nissan. Who knows if it will be there for gen II leaf ?

dev100

dev100 wrote: »

I have a question about the cost to charge up theses cars. We pay an excessive amount in duties and taxes on normal fuel. If we all decided to go electric . Surely it makes no economic sense for government to allow this cheaper fuel source. They d lose massive amounts in revenue . How are they going to generate revenue if charging electrically is so cheap?

Electricity will never cost the same as petrol or diesel, if they do decide to raise taxes on ev's just remember ice cars will still cost much more!

Bruthal

Deleted User wrote: »

Electricity will never cost the same as petrol or diesel, if they do decide to raise taxes on ev's just remember ice cars will still cost much more!

That might be true while ice`s are still the majority. It would be interesting to see what they (government) would come up with, if ev`s were in the large majority due to oil being no longer viable. They would come up with some method to hammer them.

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

Really ? then read your first post in this thread, it hardly is a worthy contribution to the discussion!

The Leaf isn't supposed to be a performance car, remember the limitation to performance long range electric cars is cost.

The Tesla model S is supposed to have 350 miles or more. But at a prohibitive cost to most people! The sport version doing 0-60 in 4.5 seconds!

Again what makes sense is you buy a car that meets 90% or more of your driving needs, not the 10% or less it may not. That does not make sense.

What if I want to go on a long trip in an ice car and it won't start after not driving it for a few months because I drive the Leaf 99% of the time ?

I'm lost.

In this scenario you own an ice car and a Leaf? So you've incurred the capital cost of buying two cars, insuring two cars and taxing two cars?

The payback of the €25,000 cost of the Leaf would be a long time coming even before you take into account the additional costs.

Plus I would imagine that once further advancement in this area, be it electric cars or otherwise, are made the Leaf will become dated very quickly.

A Nissan Leaf would not meet 90% or more of my driving requirements.

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm lost.


The payback of the €25,000 cost of the Leaf would be a long time coming even before you take into account the additional costs.
.

Whats the payback time of you`re current car?

robbie7730

robbie7730 wrote: »

That might be true while ice`s are still the majority. It would be interesting to see what they (government) would come up with, if ev`s were in the large majority due to oil being no longer viable. They would come up with some method to hammer them.

maybe they will and maybe not, but the fact still remains, e.v's will always be far cheaper to run than an ice car!

remember the C02 tax and fuel tax will keep going up with each budget and the Government are so strapped for cash that they could very well introduce much more tolls regardless of what type of car is on the road.

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

Really ? then read your first post in this thread, it hardly is a worthy contribution to the discussion!

I read my first post before I submitted it, I fail to see your point.

Deleted User wrote: »

What if I want to go on a long trip in an ice car and it won't start after not driving it for a few months because I drive the Leaf 99% of the time ?

Just to cover this point off...

Why would your ice car not start? I assume you're saying the battery would have gone dead? You could use jump leads or alternatively start the car for 10 mins every now and again.

What if I needed to drive to Galway and back in the one day and I only had a Leaf?

Shane732

robbie7730 wrote: »

Whats the payback time of you`re current car?

You don't seem to be getting my point.

I'm saying the additional cost of €25,000 buying a second car versus buying fuel with the €25,000.

My own car puts a smile on my face every time I start it and every time I press the accelerator that's all the payback I want from it. That's wasn't my point though.

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

I'm lost.

In this scenario you own an ice car and a Leaf? So you've incurred the capital cost of buying two cars, insuring two cars and taxing two cars?

The payback of the €25,000 cost of the Leaf would be a long time coming even before you take into account the additional costs.

Plus I would imagine that once further advancement in this area, be it electric cars or otherwise, are made the Leaf will become dated very quickly.

A Nissan Leaf would not meet 90% or more of my driving requirements.

We have 2 ice cars, a 00 2.0L CRV and the Prius, both cars are fully paid for!

A Leaf would replace the CRV.

Pay 25k for a ice car or 25 k for an e.v, which is cheaper to run ? which pays back for itself much faster ?

Did you read my earlier post about the cost of running the Prius V a 45 mpg car V a Leaf ?

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

I read my first post before I submitted it, I fail to see your point.





Just to cover this point off...

Why would your ice car not start? I assume you're saying the battery would have gone dead? You could use jump leads or alternatively start the car for 10 mins every now and again.

What if I needed to drive to Galway and back in the one day and I only had a Leaf?

What if, what if, what if, we could do this all day.

what if get a break down ? water pump failure, head gasket failure, etc etc.

If I want to drive to Galway I'd charge in Athlone along the way!

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

You don't seem to be getting my point.

I'm saying the additional cost of €25,000 buying a second car versus buying fuel with the €25,000.

My own car puts a smile on my face every time I start it and every time I press the accelerator that's all the payback I want from it. That's wasn't my point though.

The cheapness of driving an ev would more than put a smile on my face and knowing most of my hard earned isn't going to German banks!

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

You don't seem to be getting my point.

About pissing into electric powered cars? I got that one.

I'm saying the additional cost of €25,000 buying a second car versus buying fuel with the €25,000.

This thread was about being given an electric car for a year.

My own car puts a smile on my face every time I start it and every time I press the accelerator that's all the payback I want from it. That's wasn't my point though.

Nitrous oxide powered?

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

We have 2 ice cars, a 00 2.0L CRV and the Prius, both cars are fully paid for!

A Leaf would replace the CRV.

Pay 25k for a ice car or 25 k for an e.v, which is cheaper to run ? which pays back for itself much faster ?

Did you read my earlier post about the cost of running the Prius V a 45 mpg car V a Leaf ?

No I didn't read your earlier post.

I'm not arguing that in your personal situation a Leaf wouldn't suit you. You have access to an ice car and can use it when you need it. The key point being that you have an ice car.

Neither car will pay itself back in a realistic period of time. A car is ultimately a cost.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

The cheapness of driving an ev would more than put a smile on my face and knowing most of my hard earned isn't going to German banks!

If looking at at from a purely financial viewpoint why not buy an old ICE car that's light on fuel?

Shane732

robbie7730 wrote: »

About pissing into electric powered cars? I got that one.

Good. You seemed to miss the point I was referring to in my previous post though.

robbie7730 wrote: »

This thread was about being given an electric car for a year.

It was.

robbie7730 wrote: »

Nitrous oxide powered?

No it's a BMW 335i no nitrous oxide. Or perhaps you were referring to nitrous oxide with reference to it putting a smile on my face (i.e. laughing gas)?

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

No I didn't read your earlier post.

I'm not arguing that in your personal situation a Leaf wouldn't suit you. You have access to an ice car and can use it when you need it. The key point being that you have an ice car.

Neither car will pay itself back in a realistic period of time. A car is ultimately a cost.

Right then, so why pay 25 k for a ice if a 25 K e.v will save you much much more ?

Even if I didn't have 2 ice cars, I could rent a car for the one time a year an e.v may or may not meet my needs.

I could take my mothers car, auntie's car, and give them the Leaf.

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

The cheapness of driving an ev would more than put a smile on my face and knowing most of my hard earned isn't going to German banks!

Ahhh yes the German banks.

Fair enough but you currently have two cars paid off, so ignoring other incidentals your only cost is fuel.

Whereas if you buy a Leaf you have to spend €25k.

How long would it take you to rack up €25k of fuel costs?

Surely it'd be 7-9 before you had a smile on your face in the Leaf?

Shane732

RoverJames wrote: »

If looking at at from a purely financial viewpoint why not buy an old ICE car that's light on fuel?

Because the Leaf looks outstanding.

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

.........
Whereas if you buy a Leaf you have to spend €25k.

How long would it take you to rack up €25k of fuel costs?

Surely it'd be 7-9 before you had a smile on your face in the Leaf?

The EV lads, although they like blowing on about the perceived savings only like comparing buying a Leaf to buying a ICE for €25k too, therefore there is savings and your point about fuel costs becomes void.

Shane732

RoverJames wrote: »

The EV lads, although they like blowing on about the perceived savings only like comparing buying a Leaf to buying a ICE for €25k too, therefore there is savings and your point about fuel costs becomes void.

Have you seen the Leaf though? If you were buying an ICE for €25k surely you could find something that looks better than that!

I have indeed
There's a Nissan dealer not too far from me, had a look at one but didn't drive it as I had no intention of buying one and wouldn't want to waste a salesman time. Imo they're a rotten looking thing but if looking at it from purely a financial viewpoint the looks don't matter I suppose.

They way I see it €5000 would buy you a decent motor and €20k puts a lot of fuel into it for most folk, financially buying or investing in a new EV and claiming it's shrewd is nothing short of lunacy.

Shane732

RoverJames wrote: »

I have indeed
There's a Nissan dealer not too far from me, had a look at one but didn't drive it as I had no intention of buying one and wouldn't want to waste a salesman time. Imo they're a rotten looking thing but if looking at it from purely a financial viewpoint the looks don't matter I suppose.

They way I see it €5000 would buy you a decent motor and €20k puts a lot of fuel into it for most folk, financially buying or investing in a new EV and claiming it's shrewd is nothing short of lunacy.

I agree with you.

€5k would probably pick you up an E46 M3! Granted the €20k wouldn't go quite as far in something like that.

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

Ahhh yes the German banks.

Fair enough but you currently have two cars paid off, so ignoring other incidentals your only cost is fuel.

Whereas if you buy a Leaf you have to spend €25k.

How long would it take you to rack up €25k of fuel costs?

Surely it'd be 7-9 before you had a smile on your face in the Leaf?

I can't afford a Leaf, but if I was buying an E.V I'd probably hold out for Zoe, simply because it has a much, MUCH faster charger from most esb charge points than a leaf, the Leaf can fast charge in 30 mins from a DC point where as Zoe will charge in 1 hour from empty, and the esb are upgrading their ac chargers for 30 mins charging.

Zoe will also probably be more efficient! It's also 16k new and has free battery rental for 2 years!

If buying a new car around 25k it makes no sense to buy an ice car any more!

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

Have you seen the Leaf though? If you were buying an ICE for €25k surely you could find something that looks better than that!

I'll agree with you on that! But it's not as ugly as my Prius, not from the outside anyway! But no one can argue that the 65 mpg Petrol auto for the size of the Prius is really good!

Bruthal

Shane732 wrote: »

Good. You seemed to miss the point I was referring to in my previous post though.

Not really. My point was, cars don`t really have a payback time. They are a cost overall.

No it's a BMW 335i no nitrous oxide. Or perhaps you were referring to nitrous oxide with reference to it putting a smile on my face (i.e. laughing gas)?

:pac:

Bruthal

RoverJames wrote: »

I have indeed
There's a Nissan dealer not too far from me, had a look at one but didn't drive it as I had no intention of buying one and wouldn't want to waste a salesman time. Imo they're a rotten looking thing but if looking at it from purely a financial viewpoint the looks don't matter I suppose.

They way I see it €5000 would buy you a decent motor and €20k puts a lot of fuel into it for most folk, financially buying or investing in a new EV and claiming it's shrewd is nothing short of lunacy.

Not a hope I would pay 25k for any car. But if I was given a leaf to try for a year, I`d take it.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

I have indeed
There's a Nissan dealer not too far from me, had a look at one but didn't drive it as I had no intention of buying one and wouldn't want to waste a salesman time. Imo they're a rotten looking thing but if looking at it from purely a financial viewpoint the looks don't matter I suppose.

They way I see it €5000 would buy you a decent motor and €20k puts a lot of fuel into it for most folk, financially buying or investing in a new EV and claiming it's shrewd is nothing short of lunacy.

Depends on the amount of miles you do, as I keep saying, I would much rather put my money towards a car of my choice than to be forced to pay it through fuel tax and have to keep buying older ice cars that need much more maintenance!

After 5 years in a 45 mpg car you would pay 15,750 Euro's in fuel, that would pay "more" than half the cost of a new leaf at the miles I do!

Shane732

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll agree with you on that! But it's not as ugly as my Prius, not from the outside anyway! But no one can argue that the 65 mpg Petrol auto for the size of the Prius is really good!

I actually don't think the Pirus is that bad looking of a car. I prefer the looks of a Pirus as opposed to Leaf!

The Pirus is good at what it does. The dual system car whereby it can fall back on petrol/diesel when the battery charge runs out would work very well. Therefore if you need to do a weekly long run you'd know that you'd be able to do it.

Shane732

Shane732 wrote: »

I actually don't think the Pirus is that bad looking of a car. I prefer the looks of a Pirus as opposed to Leaf!

The Pirus is good at what it does. The dual system car whereby it can fall back on petrol/diesel when the battery charge runs out would work very well. Therefore if you need to do a weekly long run you'd know that you'd be able to do it.

Both the Leaf and the Prius are pig ugly! The Prius from the rear isn't too bad, The new prius looks much better though, maybe that's the one you are talking about ?

Yes the Prius is a great car and a diesel would have cost me 3 grand more with 30-40k miles more. And get less mpg than all but maybe the 3 cylinder rattle box tiny VW Polo Bluemotion. I now see the 2nd hand car value of the Prius is holding very well, maybe it's my posts on boards.ie!

A lot of people think the Ampera is a great idea ? well the cost of it sure isn't and VRT will probably be applied here making it cost around 45,000 or more. VRT is not applied to full electric only, so the Ampera doesn't count!

Considering the Leaf costs 25k and the Zoe will cost 16,500 it makes no sense to buy the ampera, the payback would take forever!

Again I keep trying to get people to consider the point of buying a car that meets over 90% of your driving and not the 10% or less that it does not!

A 300 mile rage electric car would be hugely expensive, at current prices, so why would anyone want to pay more for range they will rarely need ? Faster charging and more chargers is what we need.

I can see why the engine is needed in the Ampera, is because the range on electric only is so small that the car would be useless without it!