Euro 2012 Group A

steelcityblues

fryup wrote: »

that head to head rule is ridiculous...the team with the best goal difference should go through simple as

feel sorry for russia

Why? By logic, if you beat the same team, you have proven to be better than them.

I say that as someone who would have preferred Russia to Greece in the knockout stages.

ArmaniJeanss

fryup wrote: »

that head to head rule is ridiculous...the team with the best goal difference should go through simple as

Why?
Is it because it is what you are used to (I don't mean that in a bad way) from the EPL (or LOI).
Other major leagues like Serie A and La Liga use head to head, as well as the Champions League, and all FIFA and UEFA qualifying and finals groups. Conversely the Bundesliga uses goal difference.

Whatever the merits of GD and H2H (and they both have pros and cons) it's a complete nonsense to refer to it as a 'simple as' situation.

Samich

Disappointed Greece went through. Karagounis is up there with Terry for dislikeability. What a whinger. In fact the whole greek team are whingers, surrounding the ref at every foul against them.

A Dub in Glasgo

fryup wrote: »

that head to head rule is ridiculous...the team with the best goal difference should go through simple as

Why?

fryup

steelcityblues wrote: »

Why? By logic, if you beat the same team, you have proven to be better than them.

so scoring four goals in your first game counts for nothing:cool: nah the team with best goal difference should go through every time and be awarded for their attacking football

A Dub in Glasgo

fryup wrote: »

that head to head rule is ridiculous...the team with the best goal difference should go through simple as

Why?

monkey9

The head to head is proper order! Didn't Celtic lose a league once a few years back because Rangers scored one more goal against Dunfirmline or something compared to Celtic??

Johner

Samich wrote: »

Disappointed Greece went through. Karagounis is up there with Terry for dislikeability. What a whinger. In fact the whole greek team are whingers, surrounding the ref at every foul against them.

He was booked for diving when he was clearly fouled. Some whinger alright. :rolleyes:

Dempsey

monkey9 wrote: »

The head to head is proper order! Didn't Celtic lose a league once a few years back because Rangers scored one more goal against Dunfirmline or something compared to Celtic??

Yep, one goal, a very tough way to lose a title tbh

kryogen

I am a fan of the head to head way of doing it if Im honest, Greece dont have the forward skill to beat a team by a wide margin, but they proved the could beat Russia, so why should Russia automatically deserve to go through for scoring more goals in one game?

The match earlier was essentially a playoff between Russia and Greece due to the result of the Czech game, Greece won, cant see how you could say they dont desevre to go through ahead of Russia (who they beat!)

Samich

Johner wrote: »

He was booked for diving when he was clearly fouled. Some whinger alright. :rolleyes:

I wasn't on about tonight, in fact I'm only seeing highlights of tonights match now. I was on about in general and in the 2 games previous. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Charisteas

adamski8 wrote: »

looked like a weak group, pity ireland didnt get drawn in it

Sorry but I think that Ireland would have finished bottom of this group too. Greece, Russia, and Czech are all better, and doubt they would have gotten more than a draw against Poland either.

Samich

Just seen the Karagounis incident, and shameful reaction from him.

kitakyushu

adamski8 wrote: »

looked like a weak group, pity ireland didnt get drawn in it

Yeah pity, considering we were destroyed twice by a team that didn't even qualify from it.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Yeah pity, considering we were destroyed twice by a team that didn't even qualify from it.

Shame we didn't qualify in it all the same.

If getting destroyed by Russia ultimately means a one goal defeat or scarcely deserved draw then I would take it.

Poles, Greeks, Czechs compared to Croats, Spanish and Italians?

A no-brainer.

ArmaniJeanss

noodler wrote: »

Poles, Greeks, Czechs compared to Croats, Spanish and Italians?

A no-brainer.

It would have been Poland, Russia and Greece (Czechs were a 4th seed like ourselves). But definitely would have been a better draw.

BKC

fryup wrote: »

feel sorry for russia

I don't. ***** could end up costing me €900 for not topping the group.

Renn

Samich wrote: »

Just seen the Karagounis incident, and shameful reaction from him.

What's shameful about it? Clearly upset because the ref has got it totally wrong + he's going to miss the QF.

Samich

Renn wrote: »

What's shameful about it? Clearly upset because the ref has got it totally wrong + he's going to miss the QF.

Blessing himself and tugging at his shirt.

They were winning 1-0

BKC

Samich wrote: »

Blessing himself and tugging at his shirt.

They were winning 1-0

And they should have had the opportunity to go 2-0 up. I can think of much more shameful reactions than blessing yourself and tugging your shirt!

Also effectively ends his tournament, unfairly.

Samich

BKC wrote: »

And they should have had the opportunity to go 2-0 up. I can think of much more shameful reactions than blessing yourself and tugging your shirt!

Also effectively ends his tournament, unfairly.

Unfairly? How about not getting booked in most games?

Also remember when Rosickys boot (the back of the heel brushed his head) he went roaring to the ref going mental, rolling around on the floor looking to see if there was blood.

monkey9

Samich wrote: »

Blessing himself and tugging at his shirt.

They were winning 1-0

What!!!!!! You mean..........he blessed himself!!!!! And then tugged at his own shirt!!!!!????????? That's...well yeah....that is shameful!!!! I mean, i know he was frustrated with the decision, but there was no reason to show his frustration in that way!!! I hope UEFA extend his ban for those disgraceful scenes beamed around the globe!!!

And not once in those moments did he think of the children, i'd say!!

Samich

monkey9 wrote: »

What!!!!!! You mean..........he blessed himself!!!!! And then tugged at his own shirt!!!!!????????? That's...well yeah....that is shameful!!!! I mean, i know he was frustrated with the decision, but there was no reason to show his frustration in that way!!! I hope UEFA extend his ban for those disgraceful scenes beamed around the globe!!!

And not once in those moments did he think of the children, i'd say!!

went complaining to the officials then.

Big whinger.

Renn

You're having a nightmare here, Samich.

monkey9

Samich wrote: »

went complaining to the officials then.

Big whinger.

Aw Jesus!! He then complained to the ref???? This just gets worse!!!!! Ban this thug for life!

Samich

Renn wrote: »

You're having a nightmare here, Samich.

monkey9 wrote: »

Aw Jesus!! He then complained to the ref???? This just gets worse!!!!! Ban this thug for life!

Oh well He's played his last game for greece in this tournament hopefully

kitakyushu

Samich wrote: »

Oh well He's played his last game for greece in this tournament hopefully

Nah he'll be back for the semi and final.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Shame we didn't qualify in it all the same.

If getting destroyed by Russia ultimately means a one goal defeat or scarcely deserved draw then I would take it.

Poles, Greeks, Czechs compared to Croats, Spanish and Italians?

A no-brainer.

So you'd pass up the chance to play Italy and Spain on the world stage in order to land in a weaker group where you *might* fluke 1 point against the next worst team if the gods happened to be smiling on your that day. Either way finishing last place in either group.

Ok then. But I'd have to disagree myself. What you're saying might make sense if we were in with a chance of competing with the Group A teams. But as it turned out we weren't even that good, so it's really much of a muchness.

monkey9

Samich wrote: »

Oh well He's played his last game for greece in this tournament hopefully

F*ck sake, i'm up for Greece now! and i don't like them!!! :rolleyes: Thanks Samich!!!!

Samich

monkey9 wrote: »

F*ck sake, i'm up for Greece now! and i don't like them!!! :rolleyes: Thanks Samich!!!!

I don't like Karagounis is all....

Lampard had bigger misfortune in 2010 when a clear goal wasn't given. That's a far greater injustice than karagounis tonight. Lampard just puts his hands to his head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRsgzYKtmj8

BKC

Samich wrote: »

I don't like Karagounis is all....

Lampard had bigger misfortune in 2010 when a clear goal wasn't given. That's a far greater injustice than karagounis tonight. Lampard just puts his hands to his head.

Different people react to different things in different ways. Doesn't mean there was anything "shameful" about Karagounis' reaction.

kitakyushu

Karagounis is a world class whinger alright (I think Robbie Keane has modeled his persona on him) but that time you could understand where he was coming from.

Samich

kitakyushu wrote: »

Karagounis is a world class whinger alright (I think Robbie Keane has modeled his persona on him) but that time you could understand where he was coming from.

He reacted like it was the end of the world.

kitakyushu

Samich wrote: »

He reacted like it was the end of the world.

Which is about an 8 on his scale of theatricality.

BKC

Samich wrote: »

He reacted like it was the end of the world.

Well it was the end of his tournament anyway.

dfx-

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Surely that card should be rescinded? ****ing joke of a decision.

I'd have thought they'd have rescinded Papastathapoulos' yellow for cleanly winning a header. I think they'll keep it.

kitakyushu wrote: »

Karagounis actually got booked in every single game he played at Euro 2004 (4) and served 2x suspensions (including the final).

He'd be a much bigger loss now..he's been pivotal in the recovery against Poland (him and Salpingidis ran the game) and in the second half against the Czechs and got the winner tonight.

The alternative is to lay your hopes on....Samaras :eek:

swoody

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd pass up the chance to play Italy and Spain on the world stage in order to land in a weaker group where you *might* fluke 1 point against the next worst team if the gods happened to be smiling on your that day. Either way finishing last place in either group.

Ok then. But I'd have to disagree myself. What you're saying might make sense if we were in with a chance of competing with the Group A teams. But as it turned out we weren't even that good, so it's really much of a muchness.

Oh please just shut up.

Like every other non-braindead Ireland fan, I would want a group easier than the current one.

It is idiotic to want otherwise.

monkey9

Samich wrote: »

I don't like Karagounis is all....

Lampard had bigger misfortune in 2010 when a clear goal wasn't given. That's a far greater injustice than karagounis tonight. Lampard just puts his hands to his head.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRsgzYKtmj8

He didn't get booked for it though did he?!!!

monkey9

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd pass up the chance to play Italy and Spain on the world stage in order to land in a weaker group where you *might* fluke 1 point against the next worst team if the gods happened to be smiling on your that day. Either way finishing last place in either group.

Ok then. But I'd have to disagree myself. What you're saying might make sense if we were in with a chance of competing with the Group A teams. But as it turned out we weren't even that good, so it's really much of a muchness.

Erm........yes!!!!! Is there some debate about that??

Dempsey

monkey9 wrote: »

Erm........yes!!!!! Is there some debate about that??

I rather play the best the world has to offer tbh, i doubt that im alone.

BKC

Dempsey wrote: »

I rather play the best the world has to offer tbh, i doubt that im alone.

Would you not want a weaker group in order to have a better chance of getting out of the group?

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Oh please just shut up.

Like every other non-braindead Ireland fan, I would want a group easier than the current one.

It is idiotic to want otherwise.

monkey9 wrote: »

Erm........yes!!!!! Is there some debate about that??

So you'd rather be the team that finished dead last in an easy group full of unglamorous opponents rather than the team that finished dead last in a hard one full of world class ones. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

monkey9

Dempsey wrote: »

I rather play the best the world has to offer tbh, i doubt that im alone.

I'd much rather get into the knockout rounds! Sure we've had the Italians in the qualifiers before. We get one or two big countries anyway. When it comes to the tournament itself, i just want to get out of the group!!!

monkey9

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd rather be the team that finished dead last in an easy group full of unglamorous opponents rather than the team that finished dead last in a hard one full of world class ones. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

I'd rather play Greece in the second group match over Spain, yes! I'd also rather play Poland in the last group match than Italy, yes!!

Glad i cleared it up for you. No thanks necessary!!

kitakyushu

monkey9 wrote: »

I'd rather play Greece in the second group match over Spain, yes! I'd also rather play Poland in the last group match than Italy, yes!!

Glad i cleared it up for you. No thanks necessary!!

Grand. You understand that Ireland will be losing these hypothetical games vs Greece and Poland too? It's not like we're talking here about Ireland getting to the QF's here or even being close in this scenario.

BKC

kitakyushu wrote: »

Grand. You understand that Ireland will be losing these hypothetical games vs Greece and Poland too? It's not like we're talking here about Ireland getting to the QF's here or even being close in this scenario.

They'll have a better chance at least.

-Ade-

-Ade- wrote: »

Just to add, I'll be shocked if he stays on. Lot of anger being aimed at him by media and fans, and rightly so IMO. Players like Lewandowski as I said before questioned his fitness plans ahead of the tourney saying it was too much and that showed in their performances in the 2nd half of games

edit - and he's gone.

At the end of the day Poland's decision making on the ball was criminal and it was pretty basic stuff they were guilty of fluffing. Ideal situations had opened up for them and they hadn't the nous to take advantage. They have flopped with many coaches now, even Leo Beenhakker couldnt advance them past the group stages in 2 competitions

ArmaniJeanss

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd rather be the team that finished dead last in an easy group full of unglamorous opponents rather than the team that finished dead last in a hard one full of world class ones. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

We weren't in it for the glamour, before the draw nearly everyone would have cheerfully picked a group with the weakest of the teams in the first 3 pots, which was generally regarded as Poland, England/Russia + Sweden/Greece. Having said that is there any real lack of glamour in playing the hosts (maybe binking the opening game), the 2004 champions, and Russia?

Getting the easiest possible draw at every stage should be the aim. Whether or not we'd have qualified from such a group is debateable, but its lol to think we'd look for anything other than such a group - I doubt theres one Irish person who travelled (or watched on TV) who wouldn't have done so because the games weren't glamourous enough.

CSF

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd rather be the team that finished dead last in an easy group full of unglamorous opponents rather than the team that finished dead last in a hard one full of world class ones. Ok thanks for clearing that up.

Not a hope would we have finished last in group A. Czech Republic and Greece are the exact sort of teams we love playing.