Euro 2012 Group A

monkey9

kitakyushu wrote: »

Grand. You understand that Ireland will be losing these hypothetical games vs Greece and Poland too? It's not like we're talking here about Ireland getting to the QF's here or even being close in this scenario.

Well, we'd have a better chance!!! The Greeks and Poles aren't great. You almost sound like you're happy to just be there mixing it up with the big teams!! Careful now, Roy Keane could be after you!!

Renn

CSF wrote: »

Not a hope would we have finished last in group A. Czech Republic and Greece are the exact sort of teams we love playing.

Well Ireland would most likely have finished last in that group. The Czechs are a lot stronger in attack than defence (even in Baros isn't scoring). I know it was only a friendly but when they played here recently you could see the gulf in class - had 20 shots (5 on target) and 60% of the ball. Finished 1-1 but I couldn't see them letting Ireland off that easily in the big one. Not sure why you think Greece would be the type we would love to play either - the team just beat a Russian side we couldn't get near (and they created more than just one chance), beat Croatia in qualifying (another team we couldn't get near) and look a lot better than Ireland.

noodler

You can't equate our performances against Croatia and Spain and just say we would have played equally as bad against Greece or the Czechs.

It is like me saying we beat France 0-1 over 90 minutes in Paris so we would have won the group.

Or that we had only lost two competitive games under Trap before the Euros so there is no way we would have been beaten.

Completely different set of circumstances and, more importantly, teams.

Renn

You can't equate our performances against Croatia and Spain and just say we would have played equally as bad against Greece or the Czechs.

Well ofc it's hard to say what would have happened but you can certainly make an educated guess based on what we saw - both in terms of how the Irish team played (i.e. poorly and extremely limited) and how they played against the better sides (i.e. defensively not at all solid).

Charisteas

CSF wrote: »

Not a hope would we have finished last in group A. Czech Republic and Greece are the exact sort of teams we love playing.

No, the exact sort of teams Ireland love playing are Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra, Georgia, Slovakia. Countries where Ireland are favourites going into the match and likely to win by a one goal margin.

Greece and Czech Republic are a higher class than the likes of those teams.

noodler

Charisteas wrote: »

No, the exact sort of teams Ireland love playing are Macedonia, Armenia, Andorra, Georgia, Slovakia. Countries where Ireland are favourites going into the match and likely to win by a one goal margin.

Greece and Czech Republic are a higher class than the likes of those teams.

France, Italy, Bulgaria, Russia. All teams we have managed to get results from.

Are you Greek? If so, don't take it as an insult.

I am not saying we would not have finished bottom of group A - I am just saying I would obviously prefer to play Greece, the Czechs and Poland than Croatia, Spain and Italy.

EDIT: By the way, Greece don't win many games by more than a one goal margin either!

noodler

Dempsey wrote: »

I rather play the best the world has to offer tbh, i doubt that im alone.

Just out of curiosity, would you have preferred to get somebody other than Estonia in the play-offs?

Or are you only a glutton for punishment at the tournament proper?

kitakyushu

monkey9 wrote: »

Well, we'd have a better chance!!! The Greeks and Poles aren't great. You almost sound like you're happy to just be there mixing it up with the big teams!! Careful now, Roy Keane could be after you!!

No, shouldn't be happy with it , I'm just based my opinion on what was likely to happen and what has happened.

People talking about having a better chance in Group A. That is true. My point is that it really made no difference which group we were in (A or C). We were gonna finish last either. All that would be different would be the extent of the beatings.

If people would rather lose a bunch of games 1-0 in a weak group and then come away conning themselves into thinking they were a competitive team (as we have been for 4 years now) then so be it.

So if all we're talking about is which group to finish last in then I however would rather play the best, test the gulf in class and get the experience of playing against the best so that it might help on a future such occasion.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

My point is that it really made no difference which group we were in (A or C). We were gonna finish last either. All that would be different would be the extent of the beatings.

PM the lotto numbers when you get a chance.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

PM the lotto numbers when you get a chance.

I'll send you yesterdays numbers. That way you can harp on about what you could have done with the money you might have won.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

I'll send you yesterdays numbers. That way you can harp on about what you could have done with the money you might have won.

??

Sidestepping the issue a tad.

But you probably knew I was going to say that.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

??

Sidestepping the issue a tad.

Ironic coming from a guy who can't do any better in his reply than sarcastically ask for lotto numbers.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Ironic coming from a guy who can't do any better in his reply than sarcastically ask for lotto numbers.

Not really.

You continually assert Ireland would have finished bottom of Group A despite only losing two competitive games in four years prior to the beginning of these euros.

Hence, I asked you for the Lotto numbers.

That of course is leaving aside your absolutely ridiculous assertion that we should pray for a tough group because we would be getting eliminated anyway.

You clearly don't play competitive sports and you probably shouldn't air those opinions 'with the lads'.

monkey9

kitakyushu wrote: »

No, shouldn't be happy with it , I'm just based my opinion on what was likely to happen and what has happened.

People talking about having a better chance in Group A. That is true. My point is that it really made no difference which group we were in (A or C). We were gonna finish last either. All that would be different would be the extent of the beatings.

If people would rather lose a bunch of games 1-0 in a weak group and then come away conning themselves into thinking they were a competitive team (as we have been for 4 years now) then so be it.

So if all we're talking about is which group to finish last in then I however would rather play the best, test the gulf in class and get the experience of playing against the best so that it might help on a future such occasion.

Maybe we would have finished last! Maybe we wouldn't!! I'd rather have been in Group A rather than Group C as we'd have had an better chance of qualifying!!

The Czechs, the Greeks and the Poles aren't anything special! Either are we. So we'd be in the mix!

Greece topped their qualifying group ahead of Croatia for this tournament so it could have been disasterous anyway, we don't know!

Ifs and buts

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Not really.
You continually assert Ireland would have finished bottom of Group A despite only losing two competitive games in four years prior to the beginning of these euros.

Ah is that how it works. Not losing many games against a bunch of weak opponents and duds and then presuming that means you'll make the grade in the big time. As the old cliche goes I thought you had to 'beat the best to be best' but it appears as far as some Ireland fans are concerned you only have to 'draw with the worst to fancy your chances against the average'.

Personally I choose to look at team A and team B, weigh up their strengths and weaknesses and then making a prediction. If you work on that principle, rather than highlighting that top teams like Armenia, Bulgaria and Macedonia couldn't beat us (even though they all had a good go), then I could only see Ireland coming last in any combination of Group A teams.

Hence, I asked you for the Lotto numbers.

Then you really have to get off this semantics trip you are on.

If it makes you feel any take anywhere where I said "Ireland would have lost / finish last etc" and take it as meaning "Ireland would almost certainly have lost / finish last etc". To see what I mean I'm sure Ireland even had a 5% chance of beating Spain last week before kick-off, for all the good it did them.

That of course is leaving aside your absolutely ridiculous assertion that we should pray for a tough group because we would be getting eliminated anyway.

Never said that. I know your dreams of winning the lottery and ending up with an easy life in all aspects might be clouding your visions of reality but at least parrot back to me what I said rather than your misinterpretations of same.

Of course when the draw was made it would have been better to have got Group A. My point is (in retrospect) if we were gonna turn up and lose to any combination of the 15 teams you presented in front of us (which I believe would be the outcome) then I'd rather be in Group C use it as an opportunity to play the best, see how far away from the best we are and learn from it.

On the other hand if we were a good Irish team (eg take the level of our 2002 team as example) who could compete for wins and draws against most other sides then I'd rather be group A (obviously) as while even our team 2002 might struggle in group C it might have got out of Group A.

The core point of everything I'm saying here is this Trap team would ('almost certainly' - just for you) fail in both groups, so given that outcome I'd prefer personally to play the best, to get a real understanding how much has to be done in future to compete with that level and learn from it rather than just lose narrowly against someone else, learn nothing and continue this myth of being hard to beat for another 2 years.

You clearly don't play competitive sports and you probably shouldn't air those opinions 'with the lads'.

Says the guy who's always looking for the easiest possible option in life (don't worry that jackpot will be yours one day). I don't think you even understand the meaning of competitive.

monkey9

kitakyushu wrote: »

Ah is that how it works. Not losing many games against a bunch of weak opponents and duds and then presuming that means you'll make the grade in the big time. As the old cliche goes I thought you had to 'beat the best to be best' but it appears as far as some Ireland fans are concerned you only have to 'draw with the worst to fancy your chances against the average'.

Personally I choose to look at team A and team B, weigh up their strengths and weaknesses and then making a prediction. If you work on that principle, rather than highlighting that top teams like Armenia, Bulgaria and Macedonia couldn't beat us (even though they all had a good go), then I could only see Ireland coming last in any combination of Group A teams.


Then you really have to get off this semantics trip you are on.

If it makes you feel any take anywhere where I said "Ireland would have lost / finish last etc" and take it as meaning "Ireland would almost certainly have lost / finish last etc". To see what I mean I'm sure Ireland even had a 5% chance of beating Spain last week before kick-off, for all the good it did them.


Never said that. I know your dreams of winning the lottery and ending up with an easy life in all aspects might be clouding your visions of reality but at least parrot back to me what I said rather than your misinterpretations of same.

Of course when the draw was made it would have been better to have got Group A. My point is (in retrospect) if we were gonna turn up and lose to any combination of the 15 teams you presented in front of us (which I believe would be the outcome) then I'd rather be in Group C use it as an opportunity to play the best, see how far away from the best we are and learn from it.

On the other hand if we were a good Irish team (eg take the level of our 2002 team as example) who could compete for wins and draws against most other sides then I'd rather be group A (obviously) as while even our team 2002 might struggle in group C it might have got out of Group A.

The core point of everything I'm saying here is this Trap team would ('almost certainly' - just for you) fail in both groups, so given that outcome I'd prefer personally to play the best, to get a real understanding how much has to be done in future to compete with that level and learn from it rather than just lose narrowly against someone else, learn nothing and continue this myth of being hard to beat for another 2 years.



Says the guy who's always looking for the easiest possible option in life (don't worry that jackpot will be yours one day). I don't think you even understand the meaning of competitive.

I'd rather lose to Spain than Greece in hindsight if we were to lose both matches. However, we don't know how it would have gone so i'd rather be drawn against Greece as it would give us a better chance of getting through!

Samich

monkey9 wrote: »

He didn't get booked for it though did he?!!!

So the big hullaballo was over his own situation and not the teams? Selfish enough then if that's the case.

Odd times that people have been booked wrongly for mistaken identity and they haven't gone to the ref and said "You meant to book him".

I could imagine Karagounis doing the same.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

So you'd pass up the chance to play Italy and Spain on the world stage in order to land in a weaker group where you *might* fluke 1 point against the next worst team if the gods happened to be smiling on your that day. Either way finishing last place in either group.

Ok then. But I'd have to disagree myself. What you're saying might make sense if we were in with a chance of competing with the Group A teams. But as it turned out we weren't even that good, so it's really much of a muchness.

This is a stupid post.

It goes against the very point of sport.

There are no semantics in it.

You would have to ask yourself what kind of fan you are if you would prefer a much tougher group for the 'glamour' or 'prestige' rather than have one which would give your country the best chance of qualifying.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

This is a stupid post.

I agree. Like many of your others on this topic that effort from you above was indeed another stupid post. Thank you for being so humble and for warning us of what was to follow.

It goes against the very point of sport.

There are no semantics in it.

You would have to ask yourself what kind of fan you are if you would prefer a much tougher group for the 'glamour' or 'prestige' rather than have one which would give your country the best chance of qualifying.

First, you should probably emphasise words like "world class" and "difficulty of opponent" rather than "prestige" or "glamour" if you want to see my position.

Also, what is the point of sport then? To see how good you can be or just to keep avoiding good teams for as long as possible so that you can cod yourself and everyone else into thinking you're better than you are? You should probably follow professional boxing instead of football if the latter is your idea of sport.

Either way that is not even the issue here and beyond disagreeing with me you don't seem to even understand the parameters of the issue anyway.

Sanity_Saviour

kitakyushu wrote: »

No, shouldn't be happy with it , I'm just based my opinion on what was likely to happen and what has happened.

People talking about having a better chance in Group A. That is true. My point is that it really made no difference which group we were in (A or C). We were gonna finish last either. All that would be different would be the extent of the beatings.

If people would rather lose a bunch of games 1-0 in a weak group and then come away conning themselves into thinking they were a competitive team (as we have been for 4 years now) then so be it.

So if all we're talking about is which group to finish last in then I however would rather play the best, test the gulf in class and get the experience of playing against the best so that it might help on a future such occasion.

Im sorry but you are talking utter nonsense, much like your usual pessimistic tripe. The likelihood that we would of finished last in Group C is far greater than if we had been in Group A simply because there are far better players playing for Spain, Croatia, Italy.

The game against Croatia was essentially decided by Luka Modric, one of the best players in the world. There is no shame in admitting none of our midfielders are anywhere his level, added to the in form Jelavic amongst a host of players who have played CL football.
Spain, well they speak for themselves, Dunphy putting it best when he pointed out Pique would be our most skillful player.

There is no-one is Group A anywhere near the levels of these players, so we would be far more likely to grind out a result a la Greece whilst Czech Republic are nowhere near the days of Nedved.

G.K.

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Im sorry but you are talking utter nonsense, much like your usual pessimistic tripe. The likelihood that we would of finished last in Group C is far greater than if we had been in Group A simply because there are far better players playing for Spain, Croatia, Italy.

The game against Croatia was essentially decided by Luka Modric, one of the best players in the world. There is no shame in admitting none of our midfielders are anywhere his level, added to the in form Jelavic amongst a host of players who have played CL football.
Spain, well they speak for themselves, Dunphy putting it best when he pointed out Pique would be our most skillful player.

There is no-one is Group A anywhere near the levels of these players, so we would be far more likely to grind out a result a la Greece whilst Czech Republic are nowhere near the days of Nedved.

No it wasn't. Mandzukic and Srna were the two best players that night.

kitakyushu

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Im sorry but you are talking utter nonsense, much like your usual pessimistic tripe. The likelihood that we would of finished last in Group C is far greater than if we had been in Group A simply because there are far better players playing for Spain, Croatia, Italy.

The game against Croatia was essentially decided by Luka Modric, one of the best players in the world. There is no shame in admitting none of our midfielders are anywhere his level, added to the in form Jelavic amongst a host of players who have played CL football.
Spain, well they speak for themselves, Dunphy putting it best when he pointed out Pique would be our most skillful player.

There is no-one is Group A anywhere near the levels of these players, so we would be far more likely to grind out a result a la Greece whilst Czech Republic are nowhere near the days of Nedved.

Thanks. I'm flattered you follow my work.

Just to clarify once more for all the hot-heads, I never for a second said under any circumstances that group A wasn't much easier than group C. Group A is obviously the weaker group. However I've formed the position we'd almost certainly come last in either group and most likely with 0 pts. Call that 'pessimistic' if you like. I call it 'very likely' based on all evidence provide so far.

Sanity_Saviour

G.K. wrote: »

No it wasn't. Mandzukic and Srna were the two best players that night.

Nope, Croatia didn't start to overwhelm us until Modric got control of the game.

kitakyushu wrote: »

Thanks. I'm flattered you follow my work.

Just to clarify once more for all the hot-heads, I never for a second said under any circumstances that group A wasn't much easier than group C. Group A is obviously the weaker group. However I've formed the position we'd almost certainly come last in either group and most likely with 0 pts. Call that 'pessimistic' if you like. I call it 'very likely' based on all evidence provide so far.

Nope, to be honest I, and normal football fans, would probably have fancied our chances in that group because we're ahead of Czech Republic in the rankings and Greece are about as negative as we are.

kitakyushu wrote: »

then I'd rather be in Group C use it as an opportunity to play the best, see how far away from the best we are and learn from it.

So you'd prefer to get beaten by a higher ranked team (who we all know are better than us), than progress by drawing a relatively easy group? Im still struggling to see how that works. The history books don't say: X got to the quarter finals(but played poor football).

kitakyushu

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Nope, Croatia didn't start to overwhelm us until Modric got control of the game.



Nope, to be honest I, and normal football fans, would probably have fancied our chances in that group because we're ahead of Czech Republic in the rankings and Greece are about as negative as we are.


So you'd prefer to get beaten by a higher ranked team (who we all know are better than us), than progress by drawing a relatively easy group? Im still struggling to see how that works. The history books don't say: X got to the quarter finals(but played poor football).

Again that is not my point. I'm saying that in retrospect we were better served by being in this amazingly tough group and losing 3 than by being in a weakest group who are imho still too good for us and imho where we would also still lose 3.

Guys like St. Ledger no doubt went onto that pitch vs Spain already presuming they were up against it, but in the interviews after when they came off you could almost see they were in shock by what they came up against. They got a taste of reality in the worst possible way and the gulf in where they are and where they need to be. Not a pleasant experience but looking to the next campaign I think it's something that will serve him and the others better than say a 1-0 loss to Greece and 1-0 to Czech etc.

To see what I mean, some of the players Jack Chalton inherited talk about games vs Denmark in 84&85 where they were absolutely destroyed. At that point Ireland figured themselves a handy side who could stay in the running for a qualification but were played off the park in Copenhagen (and later in Dublin) and thought a football lesson they didn't forget. No one likes losing but I think nights like those turned into positives later on for the guys at 88 90.

Sanity_Saviour

kitakyushu wrote: »

Again that is not my point. I'm saying that in retrospect we were better served by being in this amazingly tough group and losing 3 than by being in a weakest group who are imho still too good for us and imho where we would also still lose 3.

Guys like St. Ledger no doubt went onto that pitch vs Spain already presuming they were up against it, but in the interviews after when they came off you could almost see they were in shock by what they came up against. They got a taste of reality in the worst possible way and the gulf in where they are and where they need to be. Not a pleasant experience but looking to the next campaign I think it's something that will serve him and the others better than say a 1-0 loss to Greece and 1-0 to Czech etc.

To see what I mean, some of the players Jack Chalton inherited talk about games vs Denmark in 84&85 where they were absolutely destroyed. At that point Ireland figured themselves a handy side who could stay in the running for a qualification but were played off the park in Copenhagen (and later in Dublin) and thought a football lesson they didn't forget. No one likes losing but I think nights like those turned into positives later on for the guys at 88 90.

Still wrong. We're nowhere near as bad as you make us out to be. We were overwhelmed by the occasion, something that wouldn't have happened in that group.

In regard to your second point, the majority of this group of players won't be around for 2014 if we make it so it won't make a difference. If we were a young squad it would make sense. Although I do(somewhat) get where you're coming from, for this squad it holds no credence.

kitakyushu

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

Still wrong. We're nowhere near as bad as you make us out to be. We were overwhelmed by the occasion, something that wouldn't have happened in that group.

How is my opinion wrong? Especially when you have nothing to the contrary?

We were well beaten last week by a team that were runners-up in a qual group to Greece and who also lost to Greece, yet we'd supposedly be competing with Greece according to some here.

In qual, we also lost 3-2 (even losing 3-0 and who know what it'd have been if they'd kept playing) and drew 0-0 (which could have been anything) to another team in that group who didn't even make it to the QF's.

Recently we were lucky to get away with a home draw in a friendly vs another team in Group A.

If anything Group A is one of the easiest groups to transpose our form and results to in order to demonstrate these other teams are better than us.

I think anyone who currently believes we'd be 'competing' in group A is dreaming, almost as much as all those who were talking about us getting positive results vs Croatia and Italy prior the tournament.

In regard to your second point, the majority of this group of players won't be around for 2014 if we make it so it won't make a difference. If we were a young squad it would make sense. Although I do(somewhat) get where you're coming from, for this squad it holds no credence.

Based on what? I'd take that bet with you right now. I see Duff and Given maybe callling it quits but the vast majority of this same squad will still be around in another two years, especially with Trap still in charge.

Sanity_Saviour

kitakyushu wrote: »

How is my opinion wrong? Especially when you have nothing to the contrary?

We were well beaten last week by a team that were runners-up in a qual group to Greece and who also lost to Greece, yet we'd supposedly be competing with Greece according to some here.

In qual, we also lost 3-2 (even losing 3-0 and who know what it'd have been if they'd kept playing) and drew 0-0 (which could have been anything) to another team in that group who didn't even make it to the QF's.

Recently we were lucky to get away with a home draw in a friendly vs another team in Group A.

If anything Group A is one of the easiest groups to transpose our form and results to in order to demonstrate these other teams are better than us.

I think anyone who currently believes we'd be 'competing' in group A is dreaming, almost as much as all those who were talking about us getting positive results vs Croatia and Italy prior the tournament.



Based on what? I'd take that bet with you right now. I see Duff and Given maybe callling it quits but the vast majority of this same squad will still be around in another two years, especially with Trap still in charge.

But the Czechs lost 4-1 to them, and they got through, yet we're still 'dreaming' if we think we're as good as them? Im not that good at maths , but is losing by 1 not less than losing by 3?

We were lucky to get away with a home draw? But, we did? Whether we deserved it makes no difference. That's the whole point of tactics.

Unfortunately the individual players in Group C were better than those in Group A.

And no. Trap believed in the players that got them to Euro 2012 to progress in Poland, however the players we were up against were superior. There is no guarantee he will use the same players for 2014.

kitakyushu

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

But the Czechs lost 4-1 to them, and they got through, yet we're still 'dreaming' if we think we're as good as them? Im not that good at maths , but is losing by 1 not less than losing by 3?

Then using your simple logic we would lose 5-1 to Greece because we lost 3-1 to Croatia and Croatia lost 2-0 to Greece.
Also Greece drew 1-1 with Poland so we'd prob lost 5-1 to them too and on and on and on.

Pointless artimethic can work anyway you like.

If you want a better idea how we might have finished in group A then just take it as read that we finished distant 2nd in qual to a team that didn't even make it our of Group A and also we were well beaten in our Group C by a team that came second to Greece in qual. That's more evidence against us competing in Group A then I've seen offered from anyone in favour of the idea that we would compete in Group A.

Unfortunately the individual players in Group C were better than those in Group A.

Going round in circles here. No one (even myself) is diputing that.

And no. Trap believed in the players that got them to Euro 2012 to progress in Poland, however the players we were up against were superior. There is no guarantee he will use the same players for 2014.

Did he believe? Is that why he had the most (note 'most' rather than 'best') defensive strategy of any manager in the tournament? If anything I'd say Trap believed in his players *the least* of any manager and that's why he has us playing like this.

Also there's no guarantee of anything. You might want wholesale changes but I'm confident the manager won't based on how conservative he's been in almost every regard to date.

Sanity_Saviour

kitakyushu wrote: »

Then using your simple logic we would lose 5-1 to Greece because we lost 3-1 to Croatia and Croatia lost 2-0 to Greece.
Also Greece drew 1-1 with Poland so we'd prob lost 5-1 to them too and on and on and on.

Pointless artimethic can work anyway you like.

If you want a better idea how we might have finished in group A then just take it as read that we finished distant 2nd in qual to a team that didn't even make it our of Group A and also we were well beaten in our Group C by a team that came second to Greece in qual. That's more evidence against us competing in Group A then I've seen offered from anyone in favour of the idea that we would compete in Group A.


Going round in circles here. No one (even myself) is diputing that.



Did he believe? Is that why he had the most (note 'most' rather than 'best') defensive strategy of any manager in the tournament? If anything I'd say Trap believed in his players *the least* of any manager and that's why he has us playing like this.

Also there's no guarantee of anything. You might want wholesale changes but I'm confident the manager won't based on how conservative he's been in almost every regard to date.

No. You gave Russia as your primary example that we would not progress from that group by quoting our results in qualifying, yet they destroyed the Czechs in a result that didn't matter. Not quite sure what the rest of that rant is about but fire ahead.

I'm afraid not. It is well known Trap relied on a system that was successful in qualifying. As one of the best managers ever, he is not stupid, so will have to be pragmatic. Personally, I think wholesale changes will be ridiculous, but he will open his eyes to more deserving players.

kitakyushu

Sanity_Saviour wrote: »

No. You gave Russia as your primary example that we would not progress from that group by quoting our results in qualifying, yet they destroyed the Czechs in a result that didn't matter. Not quite sure what the rest of that rant is about but fire ahead.

Again we're trying to find ways to weigh up our strength vs Group A teams. I have offered some evidence against us competing. You have offered nothing substantial for.

I'm afraid not. It is well known Trap relied on a system that was successful in qualifying. As one of the best managers ever, he is not stupid, so will have to be pragmatic. Personally, I think wholesale changes will be ridiculous, but he will open his eyes to more deserving players.

That's quite a lot of pragmatism on his part if, as you predict, most of the squad will be gone by WC2014.

noodler

You watch any Ireland games before the Euros started Kitakyushu?

You really give the impression your experience of the Irish football team begins with Croatia and ends with Spain.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

You watch any Ireland games before the Euros started Kitakyushu?

You really give the impression your experience of the Irish football team begins with Croatia and ends with Spain.

You give the impression your experience doesn't even run that deep tbh.

We're talking about how Ireland would hypothetically perform in Group A. Why would results from many years ago or against teams that have no direct connection to the Group A teams have any relevance?

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

You give the impression your experience doesn't even run that deep tbh.

Lets be honest - thats not true.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

Lets be honest - thats not true.

Let's be honest, it is. You talked about being happy with one goal defeats or a a scarcely deserved draw in if we were in Group A. If you'd even watched Ireland's last two games you'd see they're almost certainly not even capable of that much at this point. You talk like someone who didn't even watch the last two games and who is just judging Ireland's chances on nothing more than a freak 0-0 draw you saw several months ago, one where you didn't even understand the true long-term implications of performance you were watching.

noodler

kitakyushu wrote: »

Let's be honest, it is. You talked about being happy with one goal defeats or a a scarcely deserved draw in if we were in Group A.

What?

Now, I know you have taken some flak for your ridiculous "we would finish bottom of Group A so I am glad we got such a tough group" comments but that is no reason to completely lie about what I said.

Find me a quote which backs up this quite amazing statement.

kitakyushu wrote: »

If you'd even watched Ireland's last two games you'd see they're almost certainly not even capable of that much at this point.

That is not how football works.

This is one reason you strike me as a fairweather fan - Going completely over the top based on performances against the best team in the world and the 8th best team in the world and ignoring all the good results of the last 4 years.

kitakyushu wrote: »

You talk like someone who didn't even watch the last two games and who is just judging Ireland's chances on nothing more than a freak 0-0 draw you saw several months ago, one where you didn't even understand the true long-term implications of performance you were watching.

Hah.

kitakyushu

noodler wrote: »

What?

Now, I know you have taken some flak for your ridiculous "we would finish bottom of Group A so I am glad we got such a tough group" comments but that is no reason to completely lie about what I said.

Find me a quote which backs up this quite amazing statement.

What is this supposed to mean if not that then? You're talking about how you would take a narrow loss or draw from a team that has repeatedly demonstrated the ability destroy you.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79246750&postcount=1066

That is not how football works.

Is it not. You seem to be of the opinion that if you chance your arm once and get away with it that it'll happen again the next time. Football doesn't work like that either.

This is one reason you strike me as a fairweather fan - Going completely over the top based on performances against the best team in the world and the 8th best team in the world and ignoring all the good results of the last 4 years.

Where did I go over the top on the performance vs Spain? For that matter what do you even mean by "over the the top".

Hah.

Funny how you have no reply to that one better than that. I'll just take it that you agree with what I said.