Request to have pornographic image deleted

Brown Bomber

Hi,

It's not a "moderator issue" per se but
I'd like for this post to be considered for deletion which I find extremely offensive and Islamophobic.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78924948&postcount=35

It's an extremely graphic image purporting to be the Islamic Prophet Mohammed engaging in beastiality with a donkey with the actual penetration visible. It did not even come with a warning. The poster considers Muslims "cretins"

He is currently discussing masturbating to images of Mohammed.

Today, 16:25
It's a grey area. Mohammed himself is fine to have a **** to, if you imagine him with his 6 year old wife though - that's just wrong. And if you get out the crayolas and sketch the scene - you better run and hide my friend, cos you've gone too far.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054860288

His stated motivation for posting was "for a laugh" and he hoped it would offend Muslims:

I'm that poster, i'll explain it. I done it for a laugh, because i found the image funny - i still do. The fact that i "believed" it to be mohammed made it funnier to me. I understand that muslims may be offended, hence i didn't post it in the muslim forum. If for one of those religoius "mysterious ways" we hear so much about, a whole pile of devout muslims came in here and clicked on a thread to find something to be offended about, then i'm glad to be of service.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056646025&page=27

The image + stated motivation together go against both the Atheism & Agnosticism charter:

2. Respect the right of people to hold religious or irreligious beliefs which are different from yours. Forum moderators reserve the right to take action against posts or posters which they deem to be offensive or intended to inflame.

And the boards.ie T&C's

You agree NOT to use Boards.ie to:
post any abusive, harmful, vulgar, obscene, sexually explicit, indecent, profane, inappropriate, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable Material, except where the content is appropriate to the content of the forum and you have been granted specific permission to do so and subject to our guidelines on said content

post Material that contains violence, or offensive subject matter or contains a link to an adult website

Just to be clear I am not looking for any banning or anything like that just for the image to be deleted and confirmation that it is innapropriate.

Thanks for your time in advance.

Spear

You need to tell the mods of that forum about it by using the report post function or by PM.

Brown Bomber

Spear wrote: »

You need to tell the mods of that forum about it by using the report post function or by PM.

I did report it at the time. Nothing was done. This apparently is the reasons behind it.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79098275&postcount=415

However, that clearly doesn't add up as the posters intentions were "have a laugh" with the bonus of insulting Muslims.

=========================================================

For the same reasons I'd like to request this post (from 5 mins ago) is also deleted for the same reasons.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79099806&postcount=424

Dades

I've just closed the thread. It has indeed degenerated this afternoon and I (as you are aware) was never entirely comfortable with it. Bear in mind - you've referenced stuff above that was posted less than an hour ago. Should have closed it sooner, tbh, but have work to do today as well.

Regarding the original image you refer to, I gave my reasons. Ultimately since then too many posters took too many liberties and now the thread is a nonsense.

If an Admin or anyone else wants to comment on us leaving the original image up (albeit not embedded), that's fine. It was a judgement call and could have gone either way.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

I've just closed the thread. It has indeed degenerated this afternoon and I (as you are aware) was never entirely comfortable with it. Bear in mind - you've referenced stuff above that was posted less than an hour ago. Should have closed it sooner, tbh, but have work to do today as well.

Regarding the original image you refer to, I gave my reasons. Ultimately since then too many posters took too many liberties and now the thread is a nonsense.

If an Admin or anyone else wants to comment on us leaving the original image up (albeit not embedded), that's fine. It was a judgement call and could have gone either way.

Thanks for responding, I just want to point out that this issue is not a criticism of you personally or your modding, I think you do a very good job under sometimes difficult circumstances and I know for a A&A mod to censor anything puts them in a difficult position.

I ultimately did accept your decision which was no action. However, the situation changed immediately later on when the poster of the pornographic image by his own admission didn't post it for any productive reason i.e the "relevant to the forum" section of the terms of use for posting graphic/obscene images. Therefore it is indefensible to keep up an obscene image on the site, according to it's own rules that was posted purely to antagonise a minority group and entertain the poster.

I do understand if you don't wish to answer. I'm sure I've given you enough headaches and I genuinely apologise for that, I was just looking for a second opinion.

Brown Bomber

Has this fallen through the cracks...?

Dades

Are you looking for Admin intervention to delete a single linked image in a locked thread that is now on page 3 of the forum? I figured that it was now out of sight would be sufficient.

Someone would seriously want to be offended to dig it out at this stage.

Brown Bomber

Dades wrote: »

Are you looking for Admin intervention to delete a single linked image in a locked thread that is now on page 3 of the forum? I figured that it was now out of sight would be sufficient.

Someone would seriously want to be offended to dig it out at this stage.

Hardly fair to hold the passage of time now past against me considering it's due solely to my problem being ignored.

The time passed also doesn't change the fact that you, me and every other member of boards.ie user is now associated with a post that boards.ie as it now stands are happily linking to which anti-Muslim pornographic filth which is intended to abuse a minority.

Also, I wanted to know going forward if such images are permissable on the site when they might actually be illegal under the incitement to hatred act.

Brown Bomber

In case of any confusion: yes - I would appreciate an admin to consider the issue I have raised. I had thought that this was implied in starting a thread here.

Tom Dunne

I am intrigued why you are taking such offence to what I would consider such a juvenile image. I have seen far worse on this site. You are not a regular poster in the Islam forum, so I would question your motives for not letting this go.

As to the matter of deleting it, all that is there is actually a link to the picture, it is not even embedded in the post. So it is not possible to accidentally "stumble" across the image.

Therefore I see no reason to take any action, especially since the thread is now locked.

Brown Bomber

Tom Dunne wrote: »

I am intrigued why you are taking such offence to what I would consider such a juvenile image. I have seen far worse on this site. You are not a regular poster in the Islam forum, so I would question your motives for not letting this go.

To be fair, whatever you imagine my motives to be is actually irrelevant. What is relevant is the religious minority-baiting via a dehmanising sexually explicit image that is hosted on boards.ie.

What is also relevant is the A&A Charter which it is a clear breach of. Even more relevant is the boards.ie T&C's which strictly prohibits the posting of such obscene images.

You agree NOT to use Boards.ie to:
post any 1. abusive, 2.harmful, 3.vulgar, 4. obscene, 5.sexually explicit, 6. indecent, 7.profane, 8.inappropriate, 9.or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable Material,

I count 9/9 breaches of your own T&C's there. How many do you count? And how can you possibly consider this "juvenile? And even if you still do, how does being "juvenile" justify such vulgar, obscene, abusive material anyway?

Tom Dunne wrote: »

As to the matter of deleting it, all that is there is actually a link to the picture, it is not even embedded in the post. So it is not possible to accidentally "stumble" across the image.

???
Of course it's possible to stumble onto it - you click on the link that is supplied in the thread.

If you want to make it impossible to stumble upon then all you have to do is delete it

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Therefore I see no reason to take any action, especially since the thread is now locked.

And what is the position going forward? Currently there is tacit approval of dehumanisation of Muslims through obscene images. At what point does it come unnaceptable?

Tom Dunne

Brown Bomber wrote: »

To be fair, whatever you imagine my motives to be is actually irrelevant.

On the contrary - in this context, on an internet forum such as this, motives are important.

A quick search of the Islam forum shows you have a total of 8 posts there over the past two years. For somebody jumping to the defense of Islam, you do not appear to be somebody who takes part in the forum.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What is relevant is the religious minority-baiting via a dehmanising sexually explicit image that is hosted on boards.ie.

That is your take on the image. It's a matter of opinion. In my own personal opinion, that is a caricature and not a sexually explicit image.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

What is also relevant is the A&A Charter which it is a clear breach of. Even more relevant is the boards.ie T&C's which strictly prohibits the posting of such obscene images.

Why are you so concerned with the A&A charter - isn't that a job for the mods to enforce? You've raised the issue, it was determined that it was a judgement call at the time, nothing was done, case closed.

Instead, you insist on wasting people's time and refuse to let it go.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

I count 9/9 breaches of your own T&C's there. How many do you count? And how can you possibly consider this "juvenile? And even if you still do, how does being "juvenile" justify such vulgar, obscene, abusive material anyway?

Again, that is your interpretation, not mine.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

Of course it's possible to stumble onto it - you click on the link that is supplied in the thread.

If you want to make it impossible to stumble upon then all you have to do is delete it

So, you have to go to the 4th page of a forum, to the 3rd page in a specific thread and then click on a link. Hardly stumbling, now is it?

Brown Bomber wrote: »

And what is the position going forward? Currently there is tacit approval of dehumanisation of Muslims through obscene images.

No, there is not. We will have to disagree on that.

Brown Bomber wrote: »

At what point does it come unnaceptable?

When, in the eyes of the users/moderators/cmods/admins something is deemed inappropriate and not suitable for either the site or the forum in question. Not the view of one person suffering from righteous indignation.

I have seen much worse on the site, off the top of my head, what about the Jesus LOL images? There is no doubt a percentage of people would find them offensive, yet I do not see any threads in this forum complaining about them.

So, in an effort to close this matter, I will request you make one more reply and I will be closing this thread.

Brown Bomber

Tom Dunne wrote: »

On the contrary - in this context, on an internet forum such as this, motives are important.

My supposed "motives" are no more than your own false assumptions and are just a strawman to attempt to personalise the discussion and defend the indefensible.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

A quick search of the Islam forum shows you have a total of 8 posts there over the past two years. For somebody jumping to the defense of Islam, you do not appear to be somebody who takes part in the forum.

And...?

I have a total of zero posts in the gay and lesbian forum yet if there was an explicit pornographic image of a gay man raping a donkey which was posted "for a laugh" and which hoped to offend homosexuals then I would be equally disturbed by the image. [/QUOTE]

Tom Dunne wrote: »

That is your take on the image. It's a matter of opinion. In my own personal opinion, that is a caricature and not a sexually explicit image.

It is absolutely not my take on the image. It is not a matter of opinion. Beastiality is the prime example of dehumanisation and depictions of men engaging in sex with animals has been used to demonise other races and groups for centuries. By any and all definitions a image of of a man inserting his erect penis into the swolen anus of an animal is unequivocally and undeniably "a sexually explicit image"

Likewise for everything else you claim is my opinion, - that the image is vulgar, obscene etc. It's not opinion it's fact. The image of a man penetrating an animal is by defintion all of these things and more. There is no grey area, it contravenes the boards.ie terms and conditions multiple times, yet you - a representative of the site - defend it.

It becomes abusive to a minority, Muslims; and this is by admission of the one who posted it, by claiming that the man carrying out the rape of the animal is a symbol for all Muslims.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

Again, that is your interpretation, not mine.

It has nothing to do with interpretations. There is no room for interpretations. These are the facts as they stand:

• An anti-Muslim pornographic image is posted which is a clear breach of the A&A charter and the boards.ie terms and conditions which are applicable to all users.
• I report the post.
• A&A mod naively (and as it transpires wrongly) defends the pornographic image because "it is relevant" to the discussion (despite it being not).
• The poster of the graphic image then admits he posted it "for a laugh" and hoped it would antagonise Muslims on boards who might see it.
• This completely negates the "relevance" defense and the post becomes indefensible on a number of levels.
• I again raise the issue based on this.
• Same A&A mod for some reason repeats the now ridiculous defense doesn't sanction the offending post nor delete it.
• I open this helpdesk thread.
• You shrug your shoulders at the sexually explicit minority-baiting image which is hosted on boards.ie describing it as "juvenile" and a "caricature" and fail to even condemn it <---- Tacit approval.

Tom Dunne wrote: »

When, in the eyes of the users/moderators/cmods/admins something is deemed inappropriate and not suitable for either the site or the forum in question. Not the view of one person suffering from righteous indignation.

Right, but what I am saying, and what you will surely avoid answering again is: If a sexually explicit image of a man purporting to be the Muslim Prophet Muhammed raping a donkey with the point of penetration clearly visible is posted "for the laugh" and hopefully to offend people in the process doesn't cross any red lines, if it is deemed merely "juvenile" by boards.ie then what does it take to be "innapropropriate"?

Well I can offer a precedent. An extremely similar case: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=74470672

Which led to a banning and deletion of the post. Total double standards at play.

Unless "Jewish perfidy" is somehow more offensive than Muslim beastiality.

Tom Dunne

Okey dokey. I think we are done here.

The link isn't being removed. Case closed.