Euro 2012 RTE Panel Watch

murpho999

windsurfer99ie wrote: »

I've been out all evening, I switch on, and those clowns are banging on about Ronaldo ... I didn't need to here his name - I just knew it would be him ...

and after England's match against Italy, win or lose, they'll be running down
England.

They are like the guys that sit alone in pubs, saying hello to everyone that comes in, and nobody wants to be drawn into a conversation with them.

....and that's why it's great TV and you never see threads about ITV, Sky or BBC coverage!

Neil3030

Anyone old enough to remember the exact same conversations these lads would have about Cantona?

MD1990

Ronaldo scores 60 goals
but isnt a great player cuz he gets frustated & doesn't track back
Giles hasnt a clue

Neil3030

Sadlier, in fairness, tried to call them on it, but he was far too weak and contrite.

Had he have been a bit more forceful on his point about the previous greats rarely defending back, he could have impressed a few people.

Blatter

The most retarded thing they do is bang on about his ineffectiveness in past El Clasicos and how Messi nearly always does great.

They like to ignore the little fact that Barca usually have over 70% of the ball. Of course Messi is going to ****ing influence the games more often than Ronaldo does.

kryogen

Could have sworn Portugal won, Ronaldo played pretty well and scored the winner after a great bit of movement and a nice header.

Had to double check after I had listened to the panel for 5 minutes or so, turned them off then cause I just couldnt listen anymore, turned back on 5 minutes later they are still bitching about Ronaldo?

Jesus Christ like.

Prime example of why I only tune in for Apres Match

kryogen

Blatter wrote: »

The most retarded thing they do is bang on about his ineffectiveness in past El Clasicos and how Messi nearly always does great.

They like to ignore the little fact that Barca usually have over 70% of the ball. Of course Messi is going to ****ing influence the games more often than Ronaldo does.

They have not been able to do that for a couple of Classicos now, been nice

Dempsey

They must think Maradona was a good player never a great player by the things they use to slate Ronaldo and Ibrahimovic. They are brainwashed by the British temperament to football.

stealinhorses

That was cringeworthy when Richie made his point about Maradona, which was a good one, and Giles' response was: "he would attack people in his nearest vicinity".

Ronaldo obviously does that, if he loses the ball in a tackle or misplaces a close pass, he doesn't suddenly turn around and walk off to the corner to sulk and wait for someone else to run across from the other side of the pitch to get the ball back for him :rolleyes:.

His role as an attacking midfielder/winger is made clear by his manager and it's not like players have to "put up" with him not running from box to box trying to get every ball. His role is to make that 50m dash onto a pass behind the defence/take people on in short bursts of pace/lash one from outside the box. It requires a different sort of fitness and he needs to conserve his energy a bit to make those explosive runs.
This doesn't apply only to Ronaldo but players of that calibre playing in that position, i.e. Robben, Arshavin.

Petulence is one thing, laziness another, but this idea of "tracking back" in the case of this Portuguese side is nonsensical. They don't have a quality striker to whom they can play the ball and who can hold it up, they rely on playing the ball out wide to Ronaldo and Nani and them coming in-field to make something happen. That's why the three midfielders at the heart of that team are so wrecked after the game, but it's what works for them.

If you look at gifted players who do their bit for the team, look no further than the likes of Ozil and David Silva. Rarely do they last 90 minutes and often fade in the second half as all their "tracking back" does is get them tired and reduce their team's offensive capabilities.

Messi wanders around the pitch all day long by the way, if he played in any other side than Barcelona with their passing philosophy, Dunphy et al would be telling a different story.

Blatter

kryogen wrote: »

They have not been able to do that for a couple of Classicos now, been nice

They still somehow managed to get it in tonight though, despite Ronaldo scoring in the last 3 Clasicos.

Dempsey

Blatter wrote: »

They still somehow managed to get it in tonight though, despite Ronaldo scoring in the last 3 Clasicos.

They stereotype players that dont play in the EPL based on the only matches that they are actually forced to sit down and watch sober, UCL football. Never mind them being ex pros but their lack of football knowledge for 'self confessed football fans' and journalists is unbelievable.

Corholio

Blatter wrote: »

They still somehow managed to get it in tonight though, despite Ronaldo scoring in the last 3 Clasicos.

In fairness, there was quite a few Classico's where Ronaldo was pretty anonymous, and I'd be on the Real side of things. Darragh then said that he had scored in the most recent one, saying he had affected them recently. I don't see what was wrong with their point.

Don't know why their points about Ronaldo tracking back is annoying people, he clearly doesn't. There was a point in the second half where he lost the ball and the ball landed about 4 yards away to an opposing player and Ronaldo slowed to walking pace. They were just pointing out that there certain things he dosent have to his game, and of course there things he dosent always need, but its what will always llow people to criticise him for. I thought it was a good debate myself.

Jimmy Iovine

stealinhorses wrote: »

That was cringeworthy when Richie made his point about Maradona, which was a good one, and Giles' response was: "he would attack people in his nearest vicinity".

Ronaldo obviously does that, if he loses the ball in a tackle or misplaces a close pass, he doesn't suddenly turn around and walk off to the corner to sulk and wait for someone else to run across from the other side of the pitch to get the ball back for him :rolleyes:.

I don't know if you're being sarcastic or what but I've hardly ever seen him "do that". He does wait for other people to do the work for him. Hands on the hip, hands thrown into the air, it's all the same and he does it too often in my opinion.

If he were to track back it might not make all that much of a difference 20 years down the line, but at this moment in time it's not great. He doesn't even seem to make half an attempt to win the ball back. He just waits for someone else to do it and then for them to pass the ball to him. Regardless of what the manager has told him he should show at least some kind of an interest in winning the ball back, even if he's just jogging towards the player. Put the nearest player under pressure and your team will get the ball back quicker than if you just stand there watching it all.

elefant

Do people really expect the likes of Dunphy and Giles to change their opinions on Ronaldo because of what he's doing in Spain?
They haven't a notion what's going on overseas- Giles barely knows the names of the players outside of the top teams in England, even after watching them play for the previous 90 minutes, and Dunphy's tag of the resident "Spanish Expert" is a joke. I remember a while back when he was raving about Reina's penalty-stopping ability because he saw him do it for Valencia .
It doesn't do to put too much thought into what they go on about. Just enjoy the entertainment!

monkey9

What i find with Ronaldo is that he does things for himself, not for the team! He's undoubtably brilliant, but selfish! It has to be all about him! Granted, it's good enough to win matches so you just have to put up with it.

I read a stat the other day were over the past few tournaments, Ronaldo had taken something like 120 shots on goal and scored about nine! That's what he does, shoot on sight regardless of others in positions, his last game for Utd being a prime example!

kryogen

Not true anymore, he actually plays for the team quite a lot more since going to Madrid, which is funny given the amount of goals he has scored there!

In the game against Holland for example, he kept getting his head up and trying to play teammates in, tbh if I had the option of attempting something from 30 yards or passing to Postiga or Almeida I know which option I take more then half the time for sure.

Orando Broom

kryogen wrote: »

Not true anymore, he actually plays for the team quite a lot more since going to Madrid, which is funny given the amount of goals he has scored there!

In the game against Holland for example, he kept getting his head up and trying to play teammates in, tbh if I had the option of attempting something from 30 yards or passing to Postiga or Almeida I know which option I take more then half the time for sure.

50 yard shot everytime. No joke.

kryogen

Orando Broom wrote: »

50 yard shot everytime. No joke.

Hadnt seen Almeida properly for a few years up till this tournament, tonight brought it all back about him, how the hell is he still in the squad even?

Its not even that Portugal dont have any world class ctrikers, they actually have nothing but bad ones oddly

Dempsey

They should play Raul Meireles up front, seriously!

Orando Broom

kryogen wrote: »

Hadnt seen Almeida properly for a few years up till this tournament, tonight brought it all back about him, how the hell is he still in the squad even?

Its not even that Portugal dont have any world class ctrikers, they actually have nothing but bad ones oddly

Karma for Euseibo.

I can't fathom why they don't play Ronaldo in the striker position and lash Quersema onto the wing.

It is not like he is defensive minded so you're better having him roving 30 yards from the goal where from there in he is capable of scoring.

Brain Stroking

Orando Broom wrote: »

Karma for Euseibo.

I can't fathom why they don't play Ronaldo in the striker position and lash Quersema onto the wing.

It is not like he is defensive minded so you're better having him roving 30 yards from the goal where from there in he is capable of scoring.

Was saying the same thing. Portugal would be far more balanced with Ronaldo up front

homerjay2005

Peter Collins should never be left near a microphone for a match ever again, he is absolutely brutal.

Kirby

stealinhorses wrote: »

Ronaldo obviously does that, if he loses the ball in a tackle or misplaces a close pass, he doesn't suddenly turn around and walk off to the corner to sulk and wait for someone else to run across from the other side of the pitch to get the ball back for him :rolleyes:.
.

To be fair, he actually does do this alot. Portugal are one nil up in the 90th minute and only added time away from going through and he lost the ball on the edge of the box....the Czech's break with it about 4 yards from him and he just stood and watched.

For god's sake its the last minute and they are breaking. Make a bit of effort. It's like he thinks, "Oh I scored. Job done. Other people can put it in." Couldn't believe it. He played very well overall but stuff like that just drives me mad.

monkey9

Ronaldo and Messi are great examples of how football has evolved. Their goal tally last season is ridiculous, truly ridiculous. It's off the scale and yet, they aren't even strikers!!

Kirby

monkey9 wrote: »

Ronaldo and Messi are great examples of how football has evolved. Their goal tally last season is ridiculous, truly ridiculous. It's off the scale and yet, they aren't even strikers!!

I would consider them both strikers to be honest. Both play through the middle quite alot.

Didn't Messi hit 74 goals last season? Incredible stuff. I remember my star man in Football Manager 2012 scored 75 one season and thinking to myself, "That's so unrealistic, Never happen in real life.....buggy game".

Shut me up anyway

monkey9

Kirby wrote: »

I would consider them both strikers to be honest. Both play through the middle quite alot.

Didn't Messi hit 74 goals last season? Incredible stuff. I remember my star man in Football Manager 2012 scored 75 one season and thinking to myself, "That's so unrealistic, Never happen in real life.....buggy game".

Shut me up anyway

Yeah, he hit the 70 mark if you include internationals. I wouldn't consider them strikers at all, certainly not in the traditional sense. I suppose they would the the false nine kind of thing!

Dempsey

The evolution of the attacking full back has allowed wingers to play on oppose wings cutting inside to great effect.

Orando Broom

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, he hit the 70 mark if you include internationals. I wouldn't consider them strikers at all, certainly not in the traditional sense. I suppose they would the the false nine kind of thing!

I think the true greats of the game defy classification to a degree. They are attackers as opposed a defined position because they have such a wide skillset it allows them to do so much more. Maradona, Pele and maybe Best and Cryuff could also be included in this group. Attackers but no real defined position capable of doing so much in any advanced position.

Jimmy Iovine

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, he hit the 70 mark if you include internationals. I wouldn't consider them strikers at all, certainly not in the traditional sense. I suppose they would the the false nine kind of thing!

He hit 73 excluding internationals. That was in about 60-odd games.

If you add in international goals (and include the ones against Brazil last week) then he reached 81 goals. That's some fúcking mind-boggling statistics. And after all those goals he only finished the season with a Copa del Rey medal.

monkey9

81 goals!!! Years ago, you'd score that amount in Fifa console games and laugh at the ridiculousness!!

kryogen

Kirby wrote: »

I would consider them both strikers to be honest. Both play through the middle quite alot.

Didn't Messi hit 74 goals last season? Incredible stuff. I remember my star man in Football Manager 2012 scored 75 one season and thinking to myself, "That's so unrealistic, Never happen in real life.....buggy game".

Shut me up anyway

Messi plays through the middle the majority of the time nowadays, but Ronaldo is almost always on the left now, he wanders during the game, but he is still essentially a left winger still

Messi used to be on the right, but he is now a false number 9

Jimmy Iovine

monkey9 wrote: »

81 goals!!! Years ago, you'd score that amount in Fifa console games and laugh at the ridiculousness!!

I'm not one to boast but over 10 years ago I scored 256 goals in one season with Gianfranco Zola on FA Premier League Stars.

Messi has a long way to go to beat that. Zola scored more in that one season for me than he did in his whole career in real life .

tdv123

Ah it's pleasure watching John Giles in full flow.

Put a ball in front of him & he'll analyze the **** out that baby!.

monkey9

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I'm not one to boast but over 10 years ago I scored 256 goals in one season with Gianfranco Zola on FA Premier League Stars.

Messi has a long way to go to beat that. Zola scored more in that one season for me than he did in his whole career in real life .

No offence Jimmy, but you're a bottler!!

closeline

I am a massive fan of Ronaldo. It does annoy me at times when he throws his hands up in the air and doesnt track back sometimes when he should but the criticism of him by the lads in RTE in a joke. Tonight was similar to the CL semi final when Munich beat Madrid. He missed a penalty that night wheras in the past 4 days he has almost singlehandingly got his team out of the hardest group and into a semi final. If Ronaldo is not a great player well there isnt many out there. Fair enough criticising him against Munich but tonight no need to go there I feel. Also, look at the comparisons between Messi's missed penalty and Ronaldo's. Big difference.

Messi doesnt have the antics and certainly tackles a bit more than Ronaldo but is that the difference between a good player and a great one. Ronaldo's attacking abilities and positives greatly outweigh his negatives.

Jax Teller

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I'm not one to boast but over 10 years ago I scored 256 goals in one season with Gianfranco Zola on FA Premier League Stars.

Messi has a long way to go to beat that. Zola scored more in that one season for me than he did in his whole career in real life .

Did you track back ? Not a great player if you don't track back .

They embarrassed themselves last night .

Orando Broom

closeline wrote: »

I am a massive fan of Ronaldo. It does annoy me at times when he throws his hands up in the air and doesnt track back sometimes when he should but the criticism of him by the lads in RTE in a joke. Tonight was similar to the CL semi final when Munich beat Madrid. He missed a penalty that night wheras in the past 4 days he has almost singlehandingly got his team out of the hardest group and into a semi final. If Ronaldo is not a great player well there isnt many out there. Fair enough criticising him against Munich but tonight no need to go there I feel. Also, look at the comparisons between Messi's missed penalty and Ronaldo's. Big difference.

Messi doesnt have the antics and certainly tackles a bit more than Ronaldo but is that the difference between a good player and a great one. Ronaldo's attacking abilities and positives greatly outweigh his negatives.

I've been thinking about this. Does Messi really do that much more tracking? Barca are set up in a way that attack and defence occur in the opposition half. The positions Messi takes up without the ball are not too different to those he would if Barca were in possession. The Barca game is really about space and movement something most attackers will do regardless of their bend for work. Also Barca hold on to the ball or so long in games the defensive duties of attacking players are at a minimum.

closeline

Orando Broom wrote: »

I've been thinking about this. Does Messi really do that much more tracking? Barca are set up in a way that attack and defence occur in the opposition half. The positions Messi takes up without the ball are not too different to those he would if Barca were in possession. The Barca game is really about space and movement something most attackers will do regardless of their bend for work. Also Barca hold on to the ball or so long in games the defensive duties of attacking players are at a minimum.

Would agree. Doesnt do an awful lot of tracking. Usually when the opposition get the ball they lose it straight away so he doesnt need to track back.

The_Kew_Tour

Waiting for somebody to put a "I am better then Ronaldo, cause I track back" page on facebook.

kitakyushu

Nobody does more back-tracking than Eamon Dunphy.

Take his performance after the second half of Swe-Eng for example.

monkey9

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Did you track back ? Not a great player if you don't track back .

They embarrassed themselves last night .

Ha!! Embarrassed themselves. It's the RTE panel ffs. You don't watch it for insight. You watch it for the entertainment factor and once again, they delivered!

Bodhisopha

Has Dunphy mentioned Ruby Walsh yet?

stdidit

Anyone know where I could get the full RTE match coverage for the Italy game? There was a few seconds on myself and two friends on it during the build up singing in the square so would like to see it and cant find it on rte player.

patmac

About 3 minutes of it here, you could get lucky
http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=3321414

Sir Gallagher

Bodhisopha wrote: »

Has Dunphy mentioned Ruby Walsh yet?

He doesn't track back either.

stdidit

patmac wrote: »

About 3 minutes of it here, you could get lucky
http://www.rte.ie/player/#!v=3321414

Thanks but no joy, if anyone else knows where I might get it it, it would be much appreciated.

The_Kew_Tour

I swear if he mentions the rugby team again for passion I will go through the TV.

Might as well be talking about Carlow Footballers.

frisbeeface

If they were going to complain about Ronaldo I really wish they'd back up their opinions more. Zonal Marking has pointed out a few time in the last 6 months that a high number of goals conceded by Real and Portugal have come down Ronaldo's side as he leaves his full back exposed in 2v1 situations. Which is fair but it's clearly accepted by his managers, especially as he probably creates a lot more opportunities when the other team lose the ball and their right back is high up the pitch. Portugal don't have the quality of midfielders to spring him clear as often as Real Madrid do though.

For what it's worth I used to watch every Real Madrid game when Zidane was there and he never tracked back from that left midfield position either but he never got the amount of criticism Ronaldo gets for it.

Bodhisopha

frisbeeface wrote: »

If they were going to complain about Ronaldo I really wish they'd back up their opinions more. Zonal Marking has pointed out a few time in the last 6 months that a high number of goals conceded by Real and Portugal have come down Ronaldo's side as he leaves his full back exposed in 2v1 situations. Which is fair but it's clearly accepted by his managers, especially as he probably creates a lot more opportunities when the other team lose the ball and their right back is high up the pitch. Portugal don't have the quality of midfielders to spring him clear as often as Real Madrid do though.

For what it's worth I used to watch every Real Madrid game when Zidane was there and he never tracked back from that left midfield position either but he never got the amount of criticism Ronaldo gets for it.

You say the amount of criticism, it's only a couple of old grumpy bastards who went out on a limb judging him when he was developing as a player and at this stage are stubbornly grasping at straws. Pretty insignificant in the scheme of themes.

I remember Giles saying a few years ago that Thomas Muller "wasn't a player". Has he been pulled up and questioned about that yet? Probably not a talking point for them as i doubt many even remember.

darkman2

You have to take each game on it's merits.