Euro 2012 RTE Panel Watch

Drumpot

missingtime wrote: »

Its a lazy, tabloid comment. He might "go missing" but you can't say he's never done it a club level with the amount of club trophies that he has won.

It's even lazier to rely soley on statistics to make a point.

United fans voted Valencia player of the season even though Rooney was the second highest scorer in the league.

Tevez got 3 league goals in over 20 starts in the league in his final
Season at united.

Berbatov scored more goals then Rooney two Seasons ago.

Top players show up in top games. There's no ibrahimovic fans giving many examples of him showing up in big games against big teams.

Renn

Dempsey wrote: »

If you watch enough of him, there is no argument that he is inconsistent to a certain degree. I'm sure if I bother I could pull stats to counter the ones you have.

I watch lots of him, don't worry, no need to bring up any stats that will just confirm that.

It takes more work for RTE guys to actually pull stuff like that together so they just take the easy option and go with the 'safe' opinion.

Renn

Drumpot wrote: »

There's no ibrahimovic fans giving many examples of him showing up in big games against big teams.

Check out my post Drumpot.

hth.

Drumpot

Renn wrote: »

Check out my post Drumpot.

hth.

I don't mean to sound harsh but in two games against barca he got a goal and an assist. Hardly something that would be considered world class.

That aside, most of the other teams are Italian or ok European teams. In all fairness if there is one club top strikers love playing against its defenceless arsenal.

I don't think he's a Rooney or van Persie , he's more of a berbatov, but that's just my opinion on the games I have seen him.

Leftist

Seaneh wrote: »

JEsus the ****e they talk about Ibrahimovic is mental.

For example.

Giles:Great players don't move, the fact that he's moved clubs a few times suggests to me he isn't that good, managers won't let great players move.

HE left Ajax for a much bigger club in a bigger league.
He Left Juve because they were relegated.
He left Inter to join the best club in the world for massive money.

The only place where the manager "let him go" was Barca where himself and the manager apparently hated each other.

they're a bunch of back patting clowns.

dunphy's the cream of the crop. Slated ronaldo for as long as he was with united then spent the first season he left talking about how much they missed him. He's just a clown act.

But giles gets under my skin, sanctimonious miserable auld shoe, sees the world through the perception of a 1950s working class dubliner. Refuses to accept that world has changed.

Renn

Drumpot wrote: »

I don't mean to sound harsh but in two games against barca he got a goal and an assist. Hardly something that would be considered world class.

That aside, most of the other teams are Italian or ok European teams. In all fairness if there is one club top strikers love playing against its defenceless arsenal.

I don't think he's a Rooney or van Persie , he's more of a berbatov, but that's just my opinion on the games I have seen him.

Tbh, he's done it everywhere he's gone. It's ridiculous to think that he doesn't do it consistently

Ajax

Eredivisie (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
KNVB Cup (1): 2001–02
Johan Cruijff Shield (1): 2002

Juventus

Serie A (2): 2004–05, 2005–06 (both revoked due to the Calciopoli scandal)

Internazionale

Serie A (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2006, 2008

Barcelona

La Liga (1): 2009–10
Supercopa de España (2): 2009, 2010
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2009
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2009

AC Milan

Serie A (1): 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2011

Individual

Serie A Top Scorer (2): 2009, 2012
Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year (4): 2005, 2008, 2009, 2011
Serie A Footballer of the Year (3): 2008, 2009, 2011
Guldbollen (6): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
EFA Team of the Year (2): 2007, 2009
Swedish Male Athlete of the Year (2): 2007, 2010
Jerringpriset (1): 2007

Seaneh

Yeah, he's ****e...

kitakyushu

Lovely touch.

HazDanz

Ibrahimovic has been one of the best strikers in europe over the last decade. He's a beautiful footballer and rte panel usually go for generalisations when it comes to european footballers outside of the english league so I wouldn't pay too much attention to what they say.

FlawedGenius

Size of Didi in his chair compared to John and Liam.:eek:

Jimmy Iovine

Liam really likes saying "the Ukraine".

JerryHandbag

Surely it should be Peter Collins in the studio and Darragh Maloney commentating? And surely theres a better commentator out there than Ger ****ing Canning.

Aidric

Lols @ this hashtag.

TimeToShine

Leftist wrote: »

they're a bunch of back patting clowns.

dunphy's the cream of the crop. Slated ronaldo for as long as he was with united then spent the first season he left talking about how much they missed him. He's just a clown act.

But giles gets under my skin, sanctimonious miserable auld shoe, sees the world through the perception of a 1950s working class dubliner. Refuses to accept that world has changed.

I didn't know anyone actually watched the RTE punditry looking for good, accurate critical analysis. They're as clueless as the next person but they're entertaining, thats what matters.

Thefirestarter

Moneymaker wrote: »

He's refering to this;

One of my favourite rants ever.

That was incredible to watch. I never figured him for that type of outburst with the composure he displays any other time.

I suppose he expects players to respect him when he puts so much effort into getting the best from them.

Really does show the passion he has for the game in the most sincere way.

Drumpot

Renn wrote: »

Tbh, he's done it everywhere he's gone. It's ridiculous to think that he doesn't do it consistently

Ajax

Eredivisie (2): 2001–02, 2003–04
KNVB Cup (1): 2001–02
Johan Cruijff Shield (1): 2002

Juventus

Serie A (2): 2004–05, 2005–06 (both revoked due to the Calciopoli scandal)

Internazionale

Serie A (3): 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09
Supercoppa Italiana (2): 2006, 2008

Barcelona

La Liga (1): 2009–10
Supercopa de España (2): 2009, 2010
UEFA Super Cup (1): 2009
FIFA Club World Cup (1): 2009

AC Milan

Serie A (1): 2010–11
Supercoppa Italiana (1): 2011

Individual

Serie A Top Scorer (2): 2009, 2012
Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year (4): 2005, 2008, 2009, 2011
Serie A Footballer of the Year (3): 2008, 2009, 2011
Guldbollen (6): 2005, 2007, 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011
EFA Team of the Year (2): 2007, 2009
Swedish Male Athlete of the Year (2): 2007, 2010
Jerringpriset (1): 2007

He had a great record in serie a. He won trophies everywhere he went. He scored goals wherever he went. I didn't argue that point. Your pointing out facts that don't prove he's a big game player. Are you suggesting that he's better then van Persie because his trophy haul is awful. But he does play in a vastly superior league.

There's also a decent argument that Milan and juventus Scandals and penalties gave inter a decent head start. Like 2 out of Chelsea city and united taken out of the English title race.

It's funny cause im not saying he isn't any good, he just hasn't looked like a world class player in big games against big teams. I expect him to perform regularly like he did tonight against the likes of barca, united and Madrid.

Renn

But he's pretty much always looked and played like a world class player in the big games It's ridiculous to think he can do it in every single game - all the top guys go missing: Messi, Ronaldo, whoever. It happens. I recommend you actually watch them and not be influenced by Brady, Giles and co.

Orando Broom

missingtime wrote: »

Its a lazy, tabloid comment. He might "go missing" but you can't say he's never done it a club level with the amount of club trophies that he has won.

This season was the first season Zlatan played in Serie A that he did not win the title.

He was rather good tonight. I'm actually a huge fan of his but I thought he went missing at a period in the game, right after his goal; had he taken the game on he could have bured the Ukraine. Aside from that he played very well. I thought a few times though he stayed too far from the box a few times Sweden were on the attack.

Renn

Orando - Of course he's not going to have the ball every minute of the game. And that's the type of game he plays - not always in the box. It's funny you mention him dropping out too far. That's exactly how the Sweden goal came about. He started it off on the halfway line.

frisbeeface

It's very difficult for a player to lose a label they acquire in their career. Ibra used to be inconsistent in big games, he's not any more. Plenty of players have suffered the same fate. Sure, I still know people that say it about Ronaldo.

dfx-

JerryHandbag wrote: »

Surely it should be Peter Collins in the studio and Darragh Maloney commentating? And surely theres a better commentator out there than Ger ****ing Canning.

Drunk Dunphy is better than Ger Canning.

90 minutes of silence is better than Ger Canning..summarising as the HT whistle blew, Nasri "got the score" apparently...

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

Orando - Of course he's not going to have the ball every minute of the game. And that's the type of game he plays - not always in the box. It's funny you mention him dropping out too far. That's exactly how the Sweden goal came about. He started it off on the halfway line.

No, sorry I'm not explaining it correctly. Several Swedish attacks got around the box, in crossing/cut-back positions and Zlatan was taking up positions at least 30 yards from goal, not even attempting to arrive late in the box. A player with his shooting should at least be 18-20 yards from goal in those situations. There was no tactical or positional benefit to what he was doing.

_blank_

dfx- wrote: »

Drunk Dunphy is better than Ger Canning.

90 minutes of silence is better than Ger Canning..summarising as the HT whistle blew, Nasri "got the score" apparently...

Plenty of "sideline ball" too.

What clown in RTE decided to use a bleedin gah muldoon to commentate on what is probably going to be the second most watched match on the channel after the Ireland game? Beyind belief really.

Ryle Nugent commentating on the all ireland anyone?

Panthro

Des wrote: »

Plenty of "sideline ball" too.

What clown in RTE decided to use a bleedin gah muldoon to commentate on what is probably going to be the second most watched match on the channel after the Ireland game? Beyind belief really.

Ryle Nugent commentating on the all ireland anyone?

And Cork gives it the Garryowen down field!:D

Sugarlumps

What’s the dealio with the big hole in Brady’s chin? It should have its own TV show. Needs to cover that up with some putty.

Renn

Orando Broom wrote: »

No, sorry I'm not explaining it correctly. Several Swedish attacks got around the box, in crossing/cut-back positions and Zlatan was taking up positions at least 30 yards from goal, not even attempting to arrive late in the box. A player with his shooting should at least be 18-20 yards from goal in those situations. There was no tactical or positional benefit to what he was doing.

That's his role now though, much more withdrawn If you've seen him play then this should be no surprise to you.

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

That's his role now though, much more withdrawn If you've seen him play then this should be no surprise to you.

Zlatan takes up the positioning of a centre midfielder now does he? Are you serious? Are you?

Re-read the post, and then read it again. Deep lying does not mena absent from the box. Deep lying does not mean ambling fifteen yars from the centre circle when the attack in around the Ukraine box. The guy simply did not keep up with the play. End of story.

He was in the WRONG position deep lying or otherwise.

Answer me this, what was his rationale for taking up a position 40-45 yards from goal with his team on the attack?

Renn

Haha, he did keep up with the play, don't worry about that. Like I said to you already, he played a withdrawn role (if you were watching you'd notice). Maybe he drifted out so as to try and drag Tymoshchuk with him who was trying to keep a close eye on him? And then allow chances to be created for Rosenberg (which did happen during the game)? When Sweden made the subs you could see the impact Ibra was having playing in this role even more.

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

Haha, he did keep up with the play, don't worry about that. Like I said to you already, he played a withdrawn role (if you were watching you'd notice). Maybe he drifted out so as to try and drag Tymoshchuk with him who was trying to keep a close eye on him? And then allow chances to be created for Rosenberg (which did happen during the game)? When Sweden made the subs you could see the impact Ibra was having playing in this role even more.

So you're telling me Sweden's biggest goal threat's job was to pull a defensive central midfielder out of the game? Seriously? I'm not sure you were watching the same game. Zlatan stodd up three times when Sweden were on the attack.

One of the times he did come late into the box he scored, the other time he stood on the 18 he nearly took the hands off Pyatov. The next time he was on the edge he put through Elmander/ Wilhemsson for a glorious chance to level it.

Where was Tymoshchuck on those occasions? Ibrahimovic had a great game but as I said had he gone at Ukraine at one nil he could have buried them.

For the record I'd love if Ibrahimovic tore England a new one. Far too many English commentators love to put their oar in.

Renn

Well maybe not to try and drag him with him (but this did happen a little bit) but more to get away from him and give himself some space. Then Tymoshchuk was too worried about the other midfielders to be tracking Ibra everywhere. You could see the result of this in an early great chance in the 2nd half. Then the goal came about because Ibra was in the centre and Tymoshchuk got lost out there trying to keep an eye on him. This allowed Ibra to confuse them/suddenly appear in the box/come from deep/back of the net.

There's a reason he plays the way he does.

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

Well maybe not to try and drag him with him (but this did happen a little bit) but more to get away from him and give himself some space. Then Tymoshchuk was too worried about the other midfielders to be tracking Ibra everywhere. You could see the result of this in an early great chance in the 2nd half. Then the goal came about because Ibra was in the centre and Tymoshchuk got lost out there trying to keep an eye on him. This allowed Ibra to confuse them/suddenly appear in the box/come from deep/back of the net.

There's a reason he plays the way he does.

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I'm not disagreeing with you on him dropping deep. I am on the poin t that when the play went up around the box too many times he stayed away from the threat zone. When he did get in about them he caused havoc.

One of the reasons is that he can be a lazy bollix, too! I thought when he had the chance to put two in the head of Ukraine, he abdicated. He ruined, for me what would have been the individual performance of the tournement so far and would have put every critic in their place until they stopped watching Italian football again in the Autumn. He had a chance to individually bring Sweden three points, he really had. That is a functional Swedish team, no more.

That is not to say he was not very good; he was, but there was easily two goals in that game for him.

Seaneh

Ibrahimovic has been playing as a number 10 for about 1 year with Milan, he has been Milan's playmaker since Pirlo was out of the side.

He was never a number 9 anyway, this idea that because he is strong and tall and scores goals he must be a centre forward is beyond silly, he never has been.

mooonpie

I think we can all agree that Ibra is a quality player and has some great moments, but last night is typical of what the RTE panel were talking about when they say he has a tendency "to go missing" at times.

There were plenty occasions of Sweden breaking on an attack and Ibra stood on the edge of the centre circle looking completely disinterested as were sprinting by him. This continued to happen in the last 10 minutes, when one would assume most players in the world would have a rocket under their arse busting themselves to go nick an equaliser.

And there is a massive difference with playing in the hole/around the edge of the box and standing 40 yards away with your hands on your hips.

Its easy to ignore that sort of behaviour when the moments of brilliance get the team a result, but I've got to wonder - what would the result have been if he was a bit more motivated for a couple of Swedish attacks?

Seaneh

Espn
"The moment Ukraine's defence switched off, Ibrahimovic clipped the post with a brilliantly-controlled header that left Pyatov rooted to the ground. He didn't have to wait long to find the back of the net as he was left with the simplest of tap-ins soon after the restart.
The AC Milan marksman showed what a star he is by not only putting away chances, but creating them for his team-mates"

Just about every media source I've read has Ibra second to Shevchenko in the MOTM poll.

He was fantastic last night and involved in everything positive sweden did. He created alamost everything they did himself.

The absolute idocy of some people on this board never fails to amaze me.

Orando Broom

Seaneh wrote: »

Ibrahimovic has been playing as a number 10 for about 1 year with Milan, he has been Milan's playmaker since Pirlo was out of the side.

He was never a number 9 anyway, this idea that because he is strong and tall and scores goals he must be a centre forward is beyond silly, he never has been.

Yep. The English media in particular expect him to work the channels or some such daftness.

mooonpie

Seaneh wrote: »

He was fantastic last night and involved in everything positive sweden did. He created alamost everything they did himself.

Could he have done more?

Orando Broom

Seaneh wrote: »

Espn
"The moment Ukraine's defence switched off, Ibrahimovic clipped the post with a brilliantly-controlled header that left Pyatov rooted to the ground. He didn't have to wait long to find the back of the net as he was left with the simplest of tap-ins soon after the restart.
The AC Milan marksman showed what a star he is by not only putting away chances, but creating them for his team-mates"

Just about every media source I've read has Ibra second to Shevchenko in the MOTM poll.

He was fantastic last night and involved in everything positive sweden did. He created alamost everything they did himself.

The absolute idocy of some people on this board never fails to amaze me.

Not sure what angle you're getting at? The fact that people are lauding Ibrahimovic and not Shevchenko or what?

Shevchenko did what good poachers do, score goals but Ibrahimovic di so much more last night. Obviously Shevchenko's contribution was the more vital of the two but don't take away from a really good Ibrahimovic performance.

I still think there was more in the game for him, had he gone looking. That is all. I think his performance was 90% but could have been 95%. I think a little bit moe from him would have got Sweden over the line. He almsot nicked them the draw.

Seaneh

Orando Broom wrote: »

Not sure what angle you're getting at? The fact that people are lauding Ibrahimovic and not Shevchenko or what?

Shevchenko did what good poachers do, score goals but Ibrahimovic di so much more last night. Obviously Shevchenko's contribution was the more vital of the two but don't take away from a really good Ibrahimovic performance.

No, the fact that some people are trying to say Ibra "goes missing" and other nonsense.

He was immense last night.

Shevchenko was MOTM, he was fantastic, nobody is even questioning that.

But people saying "Ibra was good, but" are being stupid, the man played fantastically.

batistuta9

what the hell has ibra got to do with the RTÉ pundits?

Seaneh

batistuta9 wrote: »

what the hell has ibra got to do with the RTÉ pundits?

Their nonsense uneducated generalisations before the game started the conversation in this direction.

Orando Broom

Seaneh wrote: »

No, the fact that some people are trying to say Ibra "goes missing" and other nonsense.

He was immense last night.

Shevchenko was MOTM, he was fantastic, nobody is even questioning that.

But people saying "Ibra was good, but" are being stupid, the man played fantastically.

But that is black and white, I think he was fantastic but I think right after the goal when Sweden had a few attacks he ambled (covered this ground with Renn) just 10 years off the cnetre circle when really he should ahve been at least within 20-25 yards from goal. He can do immense damage here. If he was tired, he could have sat high to catch his breath. He is not a defensive entity anyways so him holding 40 yards from the attacking box was no addition as he was not going to break up a counter attack. I don't think anybody is taking the line that he was shít, he wasn't; but when he had the chance to bury Ukraine, I felt he didn't take it. I felt that it took from a really good performance. It became 9/10 instead of 10/10.

older i get better i was

glad brady took dunph to task just as he was about to launch into his normal crap about whats wrong, brady just asked "why didn't you say that b4 the game eamon?" which is the right and proper way to shut him up, anyway eamo obliged with a major back pedal! .. Why can't bill ask eamo does he want the managers job himself because since 1990 he's slated charlton, mc carthy, kerr, staunton, and trap for being wrong on just about everything, have to say i'm gett'n bored with it.

HazDanz

"Bull****, that's bull****" Good man Dunphy!

born2bwild

Self - serving bullsh1t!

Mikeyt086

When asked about Trap's comments ("The players need to find redemption in the next game") Dunphy replied: "I think that's bull****. I think that's self serving bull****."

A far cry from BBC/ITV pundits who are terrified of making someone upset.

CSF

Don't know how people consider Dunphy even remotely entertaining. There are hundreds of these drunk idiots spouting nonsensical ****e in pubs throughout Ireland if one is that way inclined.

Mister Robinson

The look on Kenny and Didi's face when Dunphy said that...priceless

Jimmy Iovine

Anyone able to get a video of Dunphy saying? Only turned on now.

Downlinz

Houghton made some fool of himself with his comments about Ibra last night. Inconsistent apparently, despite winning a league every year bar the last for what 8 seasons?

JohnnyRyan99

Kenny didn't react to it at all... He seemed to nod in agreement!