Euro 2012 Group B (Group of death?)

Hank Scorpio

That might take some focus off us tomorrow if we get a bating !

Blatter

A masterclass from Germany in how to kill off a game. Brilliant stuff from them.

elefant

If that was Ireland 1 goal down and just letting Kroos stand there with the ball in injury time with noone closing him down I would have been roaring at the television. Sneijder looked like the only one bothered about losing.

yomtea98

Keno 92 wrote: »

He's only 18.

That does not excuse him from being a bad left back

Newaglish

Time to power up my crazy scenario machine. Everybody still has a chance of qualifying!

Nailz

Let me tell you lads a question, as the saying goes... If teams are on the same points in the Euros group stage, does qualification to the knockout phase depend on goal difference or head-to-head results?

IvySlayer

Nailz wrote: »

Let me tell you lads a question, as the saying goes... If teams are on the same points in the Euros, does qualification depend on goa difference or head-to-head results?

Tie-breaking criteria

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:

1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;

2. Superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);

3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);

Frank Black

Nailz wrote: »

Let me tell you lads a question, as the saying goes... If teams are on the same points in the Euros, does qualification depend on goa difference or head-to-head results?

GD first I'm sure.

elefant

Nailz wrote: »

Let me tell you lads a question, as the saying goes... If teams are on the same points in the Euros, does qualification depend on goa difference or head-to-head results?

Been asked quite a few times already in this thread.

Usually h2h, but since three teams could finish on 3 points it could go to Goal difference.

elefant

black francis wrote: »

GD first I'm sure.

No.

carbon nanotube

black francis wrote: »

How many major honours would the Dutch have won if they weren't all self-centred egotistical prima donnas?

2 fiddy

Frank Black

elefant wrote: »

No.

I stand corrected.

Jesus Wept

IvySlayer wrote: »

Tie-breaking criteria

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:

1. Higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;

2. Superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);

3. Higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);

black francis wrote: »

GD first I'm sure.

elefant wrote: »

No.

Does that not mean the dutch are out now?

Nailz

Cheers gentlemen.

elefant wrote: »

Been asked quite a few times already in this thread.

Apologies, I didn't have the time to read the thread I'm afraid...

TwoShedsJackson

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Does that not mean the dutch are out now?

They can go through if Germany beat Denmark and they beat Portugal by 2 goals or more.

steelcityblues

The Dutch need to win by at least two, don't they?

monkey9

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Does that not mean the dutch are out now?

They'll go through if they beat the Portugese by a couple of goals and the Germans beat the Danes (i think)

Skid

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Does that not mean the dutch are out now?

It could end up with Holland, Denmark and Portugal all having won one and lost one(and all having lost to Germany)

Their 'mini league' would have them all on six points, so it would then go to goal difference.

If two or more teams are equal on points on completion of the group matches, the following criteria are applied to determine the rankings:[39]
higher number of points obtained in the matches among the teams in question;
superior goal difference in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
higher number of goals scored in the matches among the teams in question (if more than two teams finish equal on points);
superior goal difference in all the group matches;
higher number of goals scored in all the group matches;
position in the UEFA national team coefficient ranking system;
fair play conduct of the teams (final tournament);
drawing of lots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2012#Group_stage

Kylo Ren

yomtea98 wrote: »

That does not excuse him from being a bad left back

He is not a bad left back. He played badly. It's around his 4th cap for the dutch side, in one of the biggest stages in football, against arguably the best side in the tournament.

yomtea98

Andy Carroll wrote: »

Does that not mean the dutch are out now?

No.If Portugal,Holland and Denmark have three points they will have all have been beaten by one another.Denmark beat Nederthland,Portugal beat Denmark and Holland beat Portugal.It then comes down to goal difference

steelcityblues

Keno 92 wrote: »

He is not a bad left back. He played badly. It's around his 4th cap for the dutch side, in one of the biggest stages in football, against arguably the best side in the tournament.

Pieters was injured, so Van Marwijk can't be blamed too much.

yomtea98

Keno 92 wrote: »

He is not a bad left back. He played badly. It's around his 4th cap for the dutch side, in one of the biggest stages in football, against arguably the best side in the tournament.

He played bad against Denmark aswell

swoody

LOW TROLLS THE BALL BOY

Kylo Ren

steelcityblues wrote: »

Pieters was injured, so Van Marwijk can't be blamed too much.

I never once blamed Van Marwijk. I know he played him out of desperation but to call an 18 year old bad after watching him once or twice under such abnormal circumstances is ridiculous.

Nuri Sahin

yomtea98

Keno 92 wrote: »

I never once blamed Van Marwijk. I know he played him out of desperation but to call an 18 year old bad after watching him once or twice under such abnormal circumstances is ridiculous.

You think he is good?

Kylo Ren

yomtea98 wrote: »

You think he is good?

I certainly wouldn't label his as 'bad'

yomtea98

Keno 92 wrote: »

I certainly wouldn't label his as 'bad'

Ok

Nuri Sahin

yomtea98 wrote: »

You think he is good?

How much have you seen of Willems? I've watch a lot of football and I've only seen him play once for club and now twice for Holland. A Holland team with a terribly average defence all across the line. An ageing DM in Van Bommel and an left winger in Afellay who offers little to not protection down that side of the pitch defensively.

A few games for me is never enough to judge a player and condemn them especially at the age of 18. If you've watched him a fair bit, and that's you're opinion then fair play.

Panthro

2euro on Gomez as first goalscorer and another 2 euro on Germany to win 2-1 sees me 30 something up.
Jumping for joy I am.:pac:

yomtea98

-Ade- wrote: »

How much have you seen of Willems? I've watch a lot of football and I've only seen him play once for club and now twice for Holland. A Holland team with a terribly average defence all across the line. An ageing DM in Van Bommel and an left winger in Afellay who offers little to not protection down that side of the pitch defensively.

A few games for me is never enough to judge a player and condemn them especially at the age of 18. If you've watched him a fair bit, and that's you're opinion then fair play.

3 or 4 times.He played badly against Germany and Denmark.Some of the mistakes and fouls he made were very bad.Oxlade chamberlain played his third game against France and anyone that saw him,even for the first time,would saw he looked good.Anyone can have a bad game but he played badly in most of the games I have seen him.

Lawrence1895

Now the Dutch need their arch rivals to beat Denmark, to have a chance to progress. That will be some fun on Sunday :pac:

Nuri Sahin

yomtea98 wrote: »

3 or 4 times.He played badly against Germany and Denmark.Some of the mistakes and fouls he made were very bad.Oxlade chamberlain played his third game against France and anyone that saw him,even for the first time,would saw he looked good.Anyone can have a bad game but he played badly in most of the games I have seen him.

Have the rest of the Dutch defence looked good so far? By all accounts, he (Willems) was excellent in the youth tourneys for them so there is something there. It's quite obvious at this stage, at his current level it's asking a bit much however I wouldn't single Willems out though for criticism, I'd be looking at the senior players who by and large, have been awful. Pieters, his teammate at PSV is clearly a level at least above him and is head and shoulders above any other LB there. But even if he was there, that defence is still fairly muck.

Orando Broom

yomtea98 wrote: »

3 or 4 times.He played badly against Germany and Denmark.Some of the mistakes and fouls he made were very bad.Oxlade chamberlain played his third game against France and anyone that saw him,even for the first time,would saw he looked good.Anyone can have a bad game but he played badly in most of the games I have seen him.

I though Williems looked really skillful, winger skillful. I thought his positioning was wretched. Having said that Van Der Weil was absolutely skinned alive as well and he's played in a World Cup final.

It's a really lightweight Dutch team with two classless bruisers in the centre. Van Bommel is a tramp. The two centre halves have zero presence. Did you see his elbow on Ozïl.

The only way the Dutch can qualify is if they are let play with three footballs.

Jelle1880

Shocking how far Holland have fallen.

stealinhorses

Does anyone know the name of the song played at the end there during the montage of the goals before Apres Match?

titan18

Aye, tbf, no offense to the player or his ability, but when you're bringing on Kuyt to get you back into a game, it can't be good.

In comparison, the Germans have the likes of Gotze, Kroos or Reus on their bench that they can bring on, or the Spanish with Llorente, Torres etc.

Outside of Huntelaar, I don't see someone on the Dutch bench that can come on and win the game, whereas Germany, Spain and to a lesser extent Italy have more that can come on and change the game

Idbatterim

Shocking how far Holland have fallen.

yes and no, if they had taken even one of their 28 chances and drew with the Danes or say they had won, that totally changes things for the Germany game. It suits Germany down to the ground when the other team has to push forward in search of a goal or a win, as they are so good at counter attacking. sometimes the line between success and failure is very very fine...

adox

Keno 92 wrote: »

Turn on BBC. Superior commentary and by the sounds of it picture and audio too.

Just on this and again it's slightly OT, RTE2 HD is now also available on the EPG to non HD subscribers with Sky on channel 294.

Up until a few days ago it was only available as part of the HD package. The good news is only the matches are transmitted in HD. The studio analysis is in SD.

Warper

Germany clearly the best team in Group B and on they will march to meet Spain in the final

inforfun

Holland's problems is the defence.
That is kicking in an open door, i know.

When you have to play an 18 year old (81 days ago, 17) as a left back you know you are in trouble. Willems only came into the PSV side last season because Pieters, the regualr PSV and Holland left back. I think he has not more than 40 senior games.

So the choice was either Willems or play someone out of his position (Anita, Emanuelson,Schaars).

Now if only Royston Drenthe had 50% of the intelligence and mentality of Van Bronckhorst he would be playing there now and rack up 100+ caps.

Comparing Willems with Oxlade C is not fait imo. It is much easier to play in attack and get away with mistakes as an 18 year old than to do the same in defence.

The rest of the defence is embarrassing as well. VD Wiel was sidelined for months and was only doing well at WC2010 because he had Kuyt playing in front of him who we all know, is not the greatest talent ever but will never give up. Now VD Wiel has Robben playing there.

Heitinga i never rated and the way he defended the goal vs Denmark should have meant the end of his international carreer. Boateng showed how to do it last night on Sneijders shot.

GK, I would have preferred Krul in goal. Stekelenburg has not done much wrong in the Dutch team but sometimes you just have to replace someone because his competition got better. Stekelenburg is after Van de Sar the 2nd Dutch goalkeeper who doesnt improve in Italy, probably only gets worse.

A back line of Boulahrouz/Vlaar/Mathijssen/Willems and Krul in goal would be a securer one than the current one. That would mean you dont have to play 2 DM in De Jong and Van Bommel and add a more creative midfielder in Van der Vaart or bring in Huntelaar and have Affelay play in his natural position of midfielder.

Van Marwijk had had great results as a coach (club and country) but this time he has got it badly wrong.

Somehow the often praised Dutch clubs youth development is to be "blamed" for the current defensive troubles. Focus there is to deliver great midfielders and attackers because big transfers are the lifeline for many Dutch clubs. And we all know that defenders dont bring in as much money as midfielders and attackers do. You cant really blame the clubs for that of course, it is all about staying in existence.

But there is hope. Especially at Feyenoord the youth has been thrown in the 1st team and a couple of very promising defenders are showing themselves.
Would be surprised if Stephan de Vrij will not be a Dutch international within 2 seasons.

G.K.

inforfun wrote: »

Holland's problems is the defence.
That is kicking in an open door, i know.

When you have to play an 18 year old (81 days ago, 17) as a left back you know you are in trouble. Willems only came into the PSV side last season because Pieters, the regualr PSV and Holland left back. I think he has not more than 40 senior games.

So the choice was either Willems or play someone out of his position (Anita, Emanuelson,Schaars).

There was Alexander Buttner.

_Bella_

Does anyone else think that Denmark and Germany might have a gentlemens agreement to draw, to put the Dutch out?

bohsfan

_Bella_ wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Denmark and Germany might have a gentlemens agreement to draw, to put the Dutch out?

Would be a dodgy arrangement for Denmark- if Portugal were to sneak a win they would be out...

kfallon

_Bella_ wrote: »

Does anyone else think that Denmark and Germany might have a gentlemens agreement to draw, to put the Dutch out?

That's what I thought at first but then realised the below!

bohsfan wrote: »

Would be a dodgy arrangement for Denmark- if Portugal were to sneak a win they would be out...

kryogen

Keno 92 wrote: »

He is not a bad left back. He played badly. It's around his 4th cap for the dutch side, in one of the biggest stages in football, against arguably the best side in the tournament.

He has been poor in both games now, looks out of his depth in all honesty, but he doesnt get much protection, nothing to say he wont come good in a few years.

maximoose

Man.UnitedLad wrote: »

Never understood this phrase.

As opposed to 2 un-clear goals?

Are you having a laugh? :pac:

2 clear goals as in a 2-goal winning margin.

BIG BAD JOHN

Games against Germany are the Danish equivalent of Ireland playing England. They still haven't forgotten the protracted "visit" of their "neighbours" in the 1940s and I think they will bust a gut to do one over on Germany.
I hope they get through rather than Portugal and must declare an interest here as I have a couple of danish-born grandchildren.
Kom nu, Danmark!

inforfun

G.K. wrote: »

There was Alexander Buttner.

Former forward turned into a left back this season. Had to play play offs with Vitesse.
But at least a leftback, i ll give you that.

yomtea98

-Ade- wrote: »

Have the rest of the Dutch defence looked good so far? By all accounts, he (Willems) was excellent in the youth tourneys for them so there is something there. It's quite obvious at this stage, at his current level it's asking a bit much however I wouldn't single Willems out though for criticism, I'd be looking at the senior players who by and large, have been awful. Pieters, his teammate at PSV is clearly a level at least above him and is head and shoulders above any other LB there. But even if he was there, that defence is still fairly muck.

Part of the problem is that Van Bommel,De jong and the back four are all playing pretty poor.Van der wiel on the right has been as bad as Williems