Russian Fans Beating UEFA Stewarts

Panthro

have all tournaments on the beaches of an uninhibited island.
Problem solved.

flyswatter

Aquila wrote: »

All countries with a hooligan element connected to the far right
that proves nothing,more generalisations,not suprised with "that source" btw

I was referring to racism, I accept the hooliganism point.

And again, quoting the Daily Mail makes the news automatically wrong by association? :rolleyes:

I'm making the point that Russia isn't an ideal country to host a tournament.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Owen_S

Wasn't there a report of racism from a Uefa observer at the match?

flyswatter

flyswatter wrote: »

Darragh Maloney mentioned it on RTE earlier. Do I have to go and get a link from The Guardian or The Independent to back that up? If you're going to be that pedantic about it then this might suffice: http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jun/09/euro-2012-racist-chants-reported

http://euro2012.breakingnews.ie/news/racist-chants-aimed-at-czech-player-say-campaigners-554753.html

I'm not disputing any of that?

I'm arguing that they shouldn't be punished as a team because of idiots, while also pointing out that's there's been racist and hooligan issues with previous countries that have hosted major tournos before and future(Brazil).

Also, pulling you up on how you think one country is more racist than another. Interested to know how you know that.

Aquila

Aquila wrote: »

Yet again you smear Russia and its people,earlier you said A county of racist tendancies

It's poor form tbh.

LuckyLloyd

user2011 wrote: »

Yet clubs and FA's get fined a few thousand euro because of a few. What is the difference?

Everyone wants this type off behaviour ^^^ and racist chanting not too be associated with football so why not?

Disagree that "everyone" wants rid of such things from the sport. There is a minority that engage in such behaviour. But there is a more significant portion of football fans that don't have any real problem with it.

Kirby

It's really very simple. People like this should not be aloud to attend a sporting event of any kind. They are thugs. All tickets should need I.D. to be presented before purchase and anybody with a criminal record, which the vast majority of these types have, be denied.

Tickets to be individualised with the persons name on them to prevent touts and I.D. required upon entry. It would take longer but be much safer. No more hooliganism. It would take a concerted effort but anything less is hugely ineffective.

flyswatter

Aquila wrote: »

Yet again you smear Russia and its people,earlier you said A county of racist tendancies

I said it isn't an ideal place to host the tournament. I don't see where I smeared the country and it's people in that post.

Well yes, it does have racist tendencies. I never said everyone in Russia is a racist. But the element is there.

flyswatter

rarnes1 wrote: »

It's poor form tbh.

I didn't smear anyone in the post he is referring to.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

kevohmsford

That guy at the end that was kicking the steward looked very young. Sickening behaviour.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Ridiculous to even consider kicking a nation out a major international tournament over the behaviour of 30 or so individuals. A fine is about the worst that will, and should, come from this. Hopefully the people responsible are identified and caught, and subsequently given a lifetime ban from UEFA and FIFA events, along with anything to do with the Russian FA, not to mention criminal charges, that would be a fair punishment imo.

gilmour

flyswatter wrote: »

Well yes, it does have racist tendencies. I never said everyone in Russia is a racist. But the element is there.

For 10 points Fintan, can you name a country that doesnt have racial tendencies?

flyswatter

flyswatter wrote: »

I didn't smear anyone in the post he is referring to.

Yeah, you did, and you even tried to edit the post but you were too slow for Aquila

flyswatter wrote: »

Best thing would be to take the 2018 world cup off them.

They have a racist element in their country anyway.

FIFA are idiots.

flyswatter wrote: »

Some? Do a bit of research. This is hardly a first.

Why should a country with racist tendencies and a history of football hooliganism and violence be given to right to host an international tournament?

flyswatter

Aquila wrote: »

These are not the ordinary Russian supporter,they are ultras of various Russian clubs coming in to disrupt the Euros.

It's still a big issue though right?

Aquila wrote: »

Oh really?

You weren't referring to the earlier posts. You quoted the post of me saying that they weren't an ideal country in which I didn't smear.

My first post was poorly worded and I take it back. Heat of the moment. Hence the edit.

dsmythy

You'll get plenty of ammunition to ban the Russians after the Poland game.

eagle eye

gilmour wrote: »

For 10 points Fintan, can you name a country that doesnt have racial tendencies?

Greenland.

carbon nanotube

Aquila wrote: »

These are not the ordinary Russian supporter,they are ultras of various Russian clubs coming in to disrupt the Euros.

nazi scum in other words or something along that

Bob the Seducer

UEFA opening disciplinary proceedings over the violence, firework throwing and 'illicit' banners while continuing to investigate the alleged racist abuse of Czech defender Theodor Gebre Selassie.

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/09062012/58/euro-2012-uefa-action-against-russia.html

Edit: which I see now is the same as the Mail is reporting

It will probably result in a fine and a warning about future behaviour. Wouldn't be surprised if they allocated more police for Russia's other games if they're going to try taking banners and fireworks off 'fans.'

johnners2981

I hear you're a racist now Russia

Leftist

gilmour wrote: »

For 10 points Fintan, can you name a country that doesnt have racial tendencies?

if you really think russia is no worse than anyone else you need to look into it more. Russia's intolerance and hideous behavior is nothing new.
See the attacks on gay rights activists in the past month, while police stood by and watched. Or the russians who attacked irish fans when we went there in 2002.
They have a serious problem with hate groups, serious alcohol problems and worst off, a police who don't give a google. awful, awful place.

noodler

If we are turning our attention away from the incident in question then it seems pretty clear to me that Russia does seem to have a high proportion of racism or violence amongst its football fans.

The two incidents in this Euros apart, Irish fans were assaulted in 2002 when they went to Moscow.

If we take the "but not all of them are racist" or "not all of them are violent" stance then we essentially do nothing.

Anyway, I guess the debate remains about whther or not Russia's participation or hosting of a tournament is a just or effective means of dealing with issues like this.

To me it seems:

1) As someone mentioned the Russian police/airports/FA/Government are the ones with the best chance of stopping these thugs premptively. The only way to really make them act seems to with such a threat. Russia doesn't really seem to care about how it is percieved in the Western world.

2) When UEFA/FIFA decide where to host a tournament...surely he chances of violence and hooliganism by a country's fans should play a part?

Leftist

wait till you see how many fans get locked up during their world cup. And by locked up I mean in standards that would embarrass turkey of 30 years ago.

Kidchameleon

A great punishment would be to give 2018 to England. That would stop em!

user2011

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Disagree that "everyone" wants rid of such things from the sport. There is a minority that engage in such behaviour. But there is a more significant portion of football fans that don't have any real problem with it.

+1 on being pedantic...

I was generalising the people who use sport as a past time and not as a political tool too get too the masses.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dfx-

Leftist wrote: »

See the attacks on gay rights activists in the past month, while police stood by and watched. Or the russians who attacked irish fans when we went there in 2002.
They have a serious problem with hate groups, serious alcohol problems and worst off, a police who don't give a google. awful, awful place.

I was walking around all over Kazan in November pre Rubin Kazan match taking photos outside the stadium and in the city and in Rovers colours, not a problem. Everybody welcoming, swapped my scarf with a police officer in the ground.

Zico

I saw a few guys with Baltic fleet insignia in the crowd, not supposed to be wearing that at a football match, but you'd guess it's not far from the naval base at Kaliningrad so guys on leave would be there showing their colours to piss off the Poles.

user2011

Instead of banning countries why not ban the fans? They do it with club fans.. Would that be ok?

Amirani

user2011 wrote: »

Instead of banning countries why not ban the fans? They do it with club fans.. Would that be ok?

So you prohibit people of a certain nationality from attending matches? Not a hope.

monkey9

If UEFA and FIFA were serious about kicking racism and hooligism out of football, then obviously, Russia should not have been given the World Cup. But money is more important than words!!

_blank_

dfx- wrote: »

I was walking around all over Kazan in November pre Rubin Kazan match taking photos outside the stadium and in the city and in Rovers colours, not a problem. Everybody welcoming, swapped my scarf with a police officer in the ground.

yeah but you go to games and actually experience football.

People on this thread calling for Russia to be expelled, for the World Cup to be taken off them, don't.

They think your post about being at a game in Russia, supporting your team, means less than them seeing a video and a TV Documentary about Russia. So they'll dismiss and ignore your post, because it doesn't suit them, they don't want to know real football experiences, they'd rather buy into propaganda.

And it is propaganda. Take the WC off Russia, give it to England, when do we want it, now.

monkey9

Des wrote: »

yeah but you go to games and actually experience football.

People on this thread calling for Russia to be expelled, for the World Cup to be taken off them, don't.

They think your post about being at a game in Russia, supporting your team, means less than them seeing a video and a TV Documentary about Russia. So they'll dismiss and ignore your post, because it doesn't suit them, they don't want to know real football experiences, they'd rather buy into propaganda.

And it is propaganda. Take the WC off Russia, give it to England, when do we want it, now.

Hold on, there is actual footage of Russian fans leaving their seats after the match and trying to murder a stewart in the stadium at the Euros! And yes, i call that attempted murder. Literally kicking and stamping on a person when they are down is attempted murder as far as i'm concerned. Why else would you be stomping on them.

This wasn't a documentary. This was video from last night's match!!! Say that was Croke Park. Say that was a brother, friend of yours etc, Des. Would your opinion be the same??

user2011

No.. not just any countries fans... Fans of countries who are found guilty of hoolganism or racism as the thread...

My big sticking point is why are clubs and FA's allowed too be fined thousands if not tens of thousands (that doesnt work)... but not allowed too ban thousands of fans from national games or banning the clubs/national teams from tournaments for the same stuff?

Its all the same a few ends up punishing the masses... ie the s**t we (ireland) are in now because of a few bankers and politicians.

Jesus Wept

Kicking them out of the tournament is the equivalent of when the teacher used to keep the whole class back because one unknown person had apparently done something wrong.

larchielads

can anyone think of a tournament where there was no violence what so ever? ok maybe someone might say the first few world cups (i dunno just guessin). my point is there is more than likely gonna be violence, reported violence or maybe somethin happens down some alley between 2 sets of supporters. just cos it aint reported dont mean it dont happen. if that incident wasnt caught on camera would we be talkin about? i dont think so folks. Still it does not make it ok just cos its not reported/seen or whatever.

violence is gonna happen one way or the other. there is no answer in my opinion. authorities can do what they like in order to stamp it out but at the end of the day it'll still happen somewhere.

in my opinion there is no such thing as a minor incident. people might not die right there on the spot but who knows what after effect a beatin like that could have on a person mental or physical i.e. the one in the video.

bottom line is there is no answer. uefa/fifa can only try prosecute all involved but to be honest it aint gonna stop.

just my 2 cents, make of it what you will. oh by the way COME ON IRELAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!

kryogen

I don't remember trouble, or at least much trouble in 2002, was there a lot in 04?

I would bet that the last time Germany had something it was trouble free

ParkRunner

During the Celtic Tiger years especially there were fights like that every Saturday night outside nightclubs all over Ireland. Doesn't happen as much now as hardly anyone can afford to go out but to think incidents like this don't or didn't happen in Ireland is wrong. Storm in a teacup in my opinion

blueser

noodler wrote: »

Sorry, didn't see it on Sky.

Banning the team is unfair on the team itself obviously but I really can't see an effective alternative.

Four stewards hospitalised.

Maybe I am letting the shock of the pictures sway me at the moment.

Didn't stop UEFA back in the eighties when Liverpool thugs shamed English football at Heysel. Indeed, all English clubs were banned from European competition back then because of the actions of braindead idiots who were supporting ONE team.

Leftist

Aquila wrote: »

Have you ever been to Russia?aside from reading sensationalist tabloids and watching propaganda from trash tv?

watching propaganda on trash tv

read that sentence out loud.

Now take it into context, a reply to news that gay rights activists were attacked and russia has problems with hate groups.

watching propaganda on trash tv

noodler

Des wrote: »

yeah but you go to games and actually experience football.

People on this thread calling for Russia to be expelled, for the World Cup to be taken off them, don't.

They think your post about being at a game in Russia, supporting your team, means less than them seeing a video and a TV Documentary about Russia. So they'll dismiss and ignore your post, because it doesn't suit them, they don't want to know real football experiences, they'd rather buy into propaganda.

And it is propaganda. Take the WC off Russia, give it to England, when do we want it, now.

What the **** are you talking about pal?

monkey9 wrote: »

Hold on, there is actual footage of Russian fans leaving their seats after the match and trying to murder a stewart in the stadium at the Euros! And yes, i call that attempted murder. Literally kicking and stamping on a person when they are down is attempted murder as far as i'm concerned. Why else would you be stomping on them.

This wasn't a documentary. This was video from last night's match!!! Say that was Croke Park. Say that was a brother, friend of yours etc, Des. Would your opinion be the same??

Precisely - Christ, you;d swear this thread was published based on nothing but a rumour on a country without a poor track record of violence and racism.

blueser wrote: »

Didn't stop UEFA back in the eighties when Liverpool thugs shamed English football at Heysel. Indeed, all English clubs were banned from European competition back then because of the actions of braindead idiots who were supporting ONE team.

Yup, wasn't fair on the team but people actually died in that case.

CiaranC

Laughable thread, ban a federation for the actions of a handful of thugs, get real.

A Dub in Glasgo

The only thing laughable is the slow response form UEFA, 1st the racist chanting at the training ground and now this. The response from UEFA has been pathethically slow

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dsmythy

Some trouble between Irish and Croatian fans being reported on SSN. Ireland and Croatia will have to be kicked out too so, there be nobody left

TheStook

If the Russians act like that after a 4-1 thumping over a relatively neutral country, how will they act after a loss to an enemy like Poland?
Horrible sights, that lad kicking the steward at the end looks no more than 16. Where was all the security?

monkey9

CiaranC wrote: »

Laughable thread, ban a federation for the actions of a handful of thugs, get real.

If a load of Irish fans after tonights match left their seats, walked up the steps into the area where the toilets etc are and proceeded to literally punch and kick the life out of a steward, i would be so ashamed and embarrassed that i would accept any punishment placed upon the FAI!

This isn't a once off!! Russian football has a problem with hooliganism and racism.