NBA Finals Thread - Oklahoma City Thunder V Miami Heat

SoulGuy

Not that the strategy matters now, but I hated OKC putting Harden on LeBron. Harden's not a good defensive player in normal circumstances, much less against a guy like LeBron. I also disliked them doubling LeBron in the post. Make him beat you down there. Doesn't matter now though.

GoldFour4

killwill

SoulGuy wrote: »

Not that the strategy matters now, but I hated OKC putting Harden on LeBron. Harden's not a good defensive player in normal circumstances, much less against a guy like LeBron. I also disliked them doubling LeBron in the post. Make him beat you down there. Doesn't matter now though.

Harden defence is top notch but height and strength were too much of a factor for him to defend against James.
Durant should have had that responsibility.

Paully D

malachyscott wrote: »

Ah, there's no comparison really. I think people need to look at more than just the numbers posted above.

Jordan did it without quitting to join a loaded team through free agency, despite being disillusioned with the help he had. Jordan also won his first ring at a time when the eastern conference was notoriously tough, and Jordan also did it at a time when players could basically beat him up on the court and get away with it.

I think it's an insult to Michael that LeBron is even being mentioned in the same breath as him.

GoldFour4

Paully D wrote: »

Ah, there's no comparison really. I think people need to look at more than just the numbers posted above.

Jordan did it without quitting to join a loaded team through free agency, despite being disillusioned with the help he had. Jordan also won his first ring at a time when the eastern conference was notoriously tough, and Jordan also did it at a time when players could basically beat him up on the court and get away with it.

I think it's an insult to Michael that LeBron is even being mentioned in the same breath as him.

just saw it on facebook and said i'd post it, not my own personal opinion, just found it interesting

GoldFour4

Extreme class from Scott Brooks during a timeout in the 4th Qtr

insanity50

can't see that link can you fix it please.
thanks

Paully D

Might as well put this in here:

Mark Cuban has just destroyed Skip Bayless :pac: Some interesting insight into how Dallas defended Miami last year in the finals too.

killwill

Paully D wrote: »

Ah, there's no comparison really. I think people need to look at more than just the numbers posted above.

I think it's an insult to Michael that LeBron is even being mentioned in the same breath as him.

Forget about points scored and look at assists, defence etc.

I personally believe that Jordan was better but over the next couple of seasons if LBJ can keep this consistency up he will rightfully become one of the all time greats.
Don't forget that in the 91-92 season MJ did have a pretty decent team with him. Pippen, Armstrong amd Grant.

Top Dog

malachyscott wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VINr6SYGxRo

Extreme class from Scott Brooks during a timeout in the 4th Qtr

Video link fixed

Carcharodon

Paully D wrote: »

Might as well put this in here:

Mark Cuban has just destroyed Skip Bayless :pac: Some interesting insight into how Dallas defended Miami last year in the finals too.

That is brilliant, he makes Bayless look like a total idiot and is dead right in doing so because Bayless like most of the media don't have a clue and just sensationalize and talk in cliches and slogans.
Agree 100% with Cuban, he clearly has a great understanding of the game, more than most owners I would think.

Paully D

Carcharodon wrote: »

That is brilliant, he makes Bayless look like a total idiot and is dead right in doing so because Bayless like most of the media don't have a clue and just sensationalize and talk in cliches and slogans.
Agree 100% with Cuban, he clearly has a great understanding of the game, more than most owners I would think.

Yeah I like Cuban. It's hard to argue with his record first and foremost, turning the Mavs from a 40% winning regular season team in the 20 years prior to his stewardship to a 69% winning regular season team in 10 years, which also consisted of 2 NBA Finals appearances and 1 championship.

I love the digs he has at players, referees and people high up in the NBA, he does go overboard sometimes but he carries on just like a huge basketball fan really and I think he does most of it just to troll :pac: In fairness to him he also matches any fines he gets with charitable donations of equal amounts.

I also like how he interacts with fans through Twitter and appears on numerous TV shows etc. If you didn't know him there's no way you would think he's the owner of an NBA franchise.

He also was one of only two owners that opposed the move of the Sonics from Seattle to OKC which after watching the documentary about all that went on was a move that earned him even more respect from me.

Very good owner overall.

spiralism

Paully D wrote: »

Might as well put this in here:

Mark Cuban has just destroyed Skip Bayless :pac: Some interesting insight into how Dallas defended Miami last year in the finals too.

I've never seen anybody made look like such a tit on national television. Cuban made a holy show of him, completely exposed skip for what he is, a controversy merchant that spouts an enormous amount of ****e to get attention, combined with hatred of certain players and teams (Lebron, Heat, Broncos) and fanboyism for others (Thunder, Durant, Tebow). Speaks in tired cliches and talks total ****e, getting shown up for that when there's someone with such a knowledge of the NBA as Cuban has.

See also: Eamon Dunphy, guilty of all the same things, but he at least takes himself less seriously and is better TV.

Any time these fellas come up against someone with proper knowledge of the game they get made a fool of. I'd love to see more of Cuban in analyst roles actually, his knowledge of the game is fascinating. If the powers that be in basketball could ever get Cuban and Phil Jackson talking basketball on the same show it would be fascinating... Best owner - Best coach there ever was

Nuri Sahin

Mark won that argument because he wanted it more

Top comment is brilliant too -

I love how Skip calls for Stephen A to support him basically sounding like "Stephen A. SAVE ME, Cuban came prepared" Stephen A. was like " I'm not gonna get burned like you, let me sit here and look good in my suit"

Borisss

killwill wrote: »

Don't forget that in the 91-92 season MJ did have a pretty decent team with him. Pippen, Armstrong amd Grant.

You're crazy. Jordan did it alone. All alone.

What Lebron achieved at Cleveland isn't enough to please some people, even though he took that team as far as he ever could without his Pippens et al.

Begrudgery, and to be honest its high time to let this Lebron bashing go. Its ridiculous at this point.

Enjoy watching one of the greats carry this loaded team of his through many more Playoffs. I know I sure enjoy watching greatness triumph.

Hence I'm a Knicks fan.

O.P.H

Borisss wrote: »

You're crazy. Jordan did it alone. All alone.

What Lebron achieved at Cleveland isn't enough to please some people, even though he took that team as far as he ever could without his Pippens et al.

Begrudgery, and to be honest its high time to let this Lebron bashing go. Its ridiculous at this point.

Enjoy watching one of the greats carry this loaded team of his through many more Playoffs. I know I sure enjoy watching greatness triumph.

Hence I'm a Knicks fan.

To say that Jordan did it alone is an insult to the great team he played with (Pippen, Rodman, Kerr etc etc), an insult to how basketball is such a great TEAM sport and clear indication you know sweet feck all about the sport.

The NBA regualar season, post season and finals program is one of the most difficult championship formats in sport and no ONE man can win it, it takes a great team and probaly most importantly a great tactical coach.

And to discredit the Heat and Lebrons achievment by saying its a loaded team is equally as rediculous. Miami made huge economical sacrifices coupled with excellent selection to assemble this team, and to say its loaded is far from the truth. All season that's the one thing people have been saying about that Heat, "oh they have a good starting 5 but no bench", and its true, they don't have great depth but they used what they had well.

The thing I find funny is that the Celtics didnt get any of the crap when they got their big three and won a ring that next year, and the Heat modeled their team selection procces off that Celtics team. 99% of crap thown at the Heat is due to stupid Lebron hatin, end of.

Borisss

Not surprised your excellent post was met with such silence.

killwill

Borisss wrote: »

Not surprised your excellent post was met with such silence.

As silent as your own really!!!!

It is a quiet auld place here at the best of times, let alone off season!!!

Paully D

O.P.H wrote: »

To say that Jordan did it alone is an insult to the great team he played with (Pippen, Rodman, Kerr etc etc), an insult to how basketball is such a great TEAM sport and clear indication you know sweet feck all about the sport.

Well Rodman didn't join the Bulls until 1995, which was 4 years after Jordan had won his first championship and Kerr didn't join the Bulls until 1993, which was 2 years after Jordan won his first championship. Jordan had 3 rings before Rodman joined the Bulls and 2 before Kerr joined the Bulls.

At the time when Jordan first won a ring (which was kind of what this whole debate was about) he had to adapt his game to Jackson's triangle offense which wasn't easy for him, but he did it. Pippen was at the stage when he was getting migraines before huge games and many people were wondering if he had what he took when it came to crunch time (in any case Scottie was recruited through the draft and it wasn't as if he acquired by similar means to Miami's big 3). Jordan took over in the playoffs and the finals after losing the first game and credit to Pippen he came good, especially in the final game, and his career really took off from there but the starting 5 was Paxson, Jordan, Pippen, Grant and Cartwright. There was basically no productivity from the bench at all and the team constantly lost big leads because the bench was so poor. It was hardly the Harlem Globetrotters. I don't think people really understand how difficult it was for them to get over the line that first time. I agree with you on the coaching and Jackson was superb.

Anyway, the main point that is being made in this debate is that MJ didn't quit on the Bulls to go and join up with his mates to win a ring despite thinking he'd never get it done with the Bulls in his first few years. In fact, Jordan was unhappy at the help he was given even during that first championship season but he stuck with it and basically wouldn't let himself quit until he won at least one championship. LeBron played in 5 eastern conference semis, two eastern conference finals and a finals, but ultimately he couldn't take the next step and in the end took the easy way out. Jordan never would have done that. Could you ever imagine Jordan ringing up Bird or Magic and trying to get them all on one team?

It really is an insult to MJ for people to compare LeBron to him.

killwill

Paully D wrote: »

Well Rodman didn't join the Bulls until 1995, which was 4 years after Jordan had won his first championship and Kerr didn't join the Bulls until 1993, which was 2 years after Jordan won his first championship. Jordan had 3 rings before Rodman joined the Bulls and 2 before Kerr joined the Bulls.

At the time when Jordan first won a ring (which was kind of what this whole debate was about) he had to adapt his game to Jackson's triangle offense which wasn't easy for him, but he did it. Pippen was at the stage when he was getting migraines before huge games and many people were wondering if he had what he took when it came to crunch time (in any case Scottie was recruited through the draft and it wasn't as if he acquired by similar means to Miami's big 3). Jordan took over in the playoffs and the finals after losing the first game and credit to Pippen he came good, especially in the final game, and his career really took off from there but the starting 5 was Paxson, Jordan, Pippen, Grant and Cartwright. There was basically no productivity from the bench at all and the team constantly lost big leads because the bench was so poor. It was hardly the Harlem Globetrotters. I don't think people really understand how difficult it was for them to get over the line that first time. I agree with you on the coaching and Jackson was superb.

Anyway, the main point that is being made in this debate is that MJ didn't quit on the Bulls to go and join up with his mates to win a ring despite thinking he'd never get it done with the Bulls in his first few years. In fact, Jordan was unhappy at the help he was given even during that first championship season but he stuck with it and basically wouldn't let himself quit until he won at least one championship. LeBron played in 5 eastern conference semis, two eastern conference finals and a finals, but ultimately he couldn't take the next step and in the end took the easy way out. Jordan never would have done that. Could you ever imagine Jordan ringing up Bird or Magic and trying to get them all on one team?

It really is an insult to MJ for people to compare LeBron to him.

Man, I loved MJ as a player as much as anyone else but some people actually think the sun shined out his ass.
Lebron and MJ are ridiculously similar in the sense they are or were the best players of their generation, but also the egotistical side. The obnoxious and arrogant attitudes.
Lebron actually tamed down over the last twelve months, but MJ? Just listen to his speech during his induction to the Hall of Fame.....
Youtube his 23 minutes of a speech if you doubt me.

O.P.H

Paully D wrote: »

Well Rodman didn't join the Bulls until 1995, which was 4 years after Jordan had won his first championship and Kerr didn't join the Bulls until 1993, which was 2 years after Jordan won his first championship. Jordan had 3 rings before Rodman joined the Bulls and 2 before Kerr joined the Bulls.

At the time when Jordan first won a ring (which was kind of what this whole debate was about) he had to adapt his game to Jackson's triangle offense which wasn't easy for him, but he did it. Pippen was at the stage when he was getting migraines before huge games and many people were wondering if he had what he took when it came to crunch time (in any case Scottie was recruited through the draft and it wasn't as if he acquired by similar means to Miami's big 3). Jordan took over in the playoffs and the finals after losing the first game and credit to Pippen he came good, especially in the final game, and his career really took off from there but the starting 5 was Paxson, Jordan, Pippen, Grant and Cartwright. There was basically no productivity from the bench at all and the team constantly lost big leads because the bench was so poor. It was hardly the Harlem Globetrotters. I don't think people really understand how difficult it was for them to get over the line that first time. I agree with you on the coaching and Jackson was superb.

Anyway, the main point that is being made in this debate is that MJ didn't quit on the Bulls to go and join up with his mates to win a ring despite thinking he'd never get it done with the Bulls in his first few years. In fact, Jordan was unhappy at the help he was given even during that first championship season but he stuck with it and basically wouldn't let himself quit until he won at least one championship. LeBron played in 5 eastern conference semis, two eastern conference finals and a finals, but ultimately he couldn't take the next step and in the end took the easy way out. Jordan never would have done that. Could you ever imagine Jordan ringing up Bird or Magic and trying to get them all on one team?

It really is an insult to MJ for people to compare LeBron to him.

To be fair now, Wade and Bosh aren't Bird or Magic. If Lebron had stayed with Cleveland he would have ended up like Garnet, wasting his best years with a team for the sake of pride. Garnet says now that the losing makes the winning all the better but I reckon if you let him go back he would have left Minnesota much earlier. The thing I don't like is the talking in individuals, like saying Lebron could have done this or that with his team, my point being is that you are only as good as your team and Cleveland proved they just didnt have it. And Lebron owes nothing to Cleveland, he has to live his life and made the right choice for him. At the end of the day though all this comparing is a complete waste of time because everything is relative to its time. As fun as it is to compare sports stars form different times, its pointless as its all subjective. All I know if Lebron goes on to do what Jordan did, then he's up there with him simple as no asterix needed and I'm looking forward to seeing what the future holds for Lebron, cause he's the most entertaining, dynamic and best player out there and has been for some time now.