Ireland vs Croatia - Match thread

CSF

Suryavarman wrote: »

The fitness statement is too true. A 10-14 year old that isn't overweight is going to be fit enough to play any schoolboy game just from running around the playground playing soccer or any other sport and from whatever match they might play at the end of training.

On top of that actual fitness training probably isn't even the best way of making young players fitter. From personal experience that hardest training sessions I ever had for the local club were the ones when it was pure passing and moving for the entire training session (although that could have been from being so unfit at the time :P). Sadly the focus on trying to play passing football instead of just hoofing the ball came when it was too late to change anyone's style of play.

Apparently the FAI are trying to change the way coaching is done in this country so they should be applauded for that. Sadly it is going to take a long time to see the results of that.

Running in a warmup (as long as its light enough and isn't excessive, which in my experience I haven't seen it to be) at that agegroup, is much more about getting kids mentally warmed up and ready to concentrate and listen for the actual warmup, than trying to create the Ivan Drago of football.

CSF

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

I don't know who you could blame that on. I'm odd I suppose in that I enjoy the prospect of coaching almost as much as I do playing.

To be fair the trained coaches in our club are brilliant. I've seen it in the last few years. Guys have been asked to coach the Kennedy cup team, and it's not a hollow gesture.

At the end of the day coaching will never be as glamorous as playing. We can only hope that enough players invest the necessary time in it.

I'd blame it on the Irish population more than anything, we as a nation will never have a huge amount of football interest in anything more than watching whatever football is on TV at the weekend.

Jayob10 wrote: »

People assume theres a lack of willingness to let young lads "express themselves" in games at underage level in Ireland.

And that the Xavi's an Iniesta's of this world did nothing but express themselves.

Its actually the complete opposite. Your bog standard irish underage setup has no structure so young lads do nothing but express themselves. And its counter productive.

Receiving the ball and looking up is not a natural instinct for a young player, even a young Xavi. These lads are drilled on the fundamentals of the game, repetition until its second nature. Its not expression is drilling them on the basics of the game. Over and over and over.

I really don't see how this relates to my post you quoted. I can't see how I even remotely indicated that proper coaching isn't crucial.

applehunter

applehunter wrote: »

Something wrong with the game if Wes Hoolahan can't get in that squad.

Can see him turning into one of those players now seen as the Great white hope...

He's not even integrated into the squad.

Should have been in long ago and been an option from the bench.

Its all wrong with this set up.

carbon nanotube

BKC wrote: »

He has done nothing this season to warrant a place in the squad.

Fair enough, neither have a few of the lads, but it's hardly a "joke" of a decision.

im sure david moyes would suggest otherwise. he is much better than several of the squad players.

kryogen

I have no beef with Coleman being left out, he hasn't had a great season due to injury etc and he will have plenty of chances in the future to help drive the team forward, and it will more then likely be under a new manager because Trap is set in his ways, he does not play certain types of player a lot.

The like of Houlihan/McCarthy etc should also be at the Euros but they are not and have no future under Trap in reality

Jayob10

We are completely in sync with the English game. We will never be that far removed culturally, given we will have to rely on players from the English league in the main.

Its all well and good training them in the basic fundamentals, its always a good thing.

Then Johnny from tallaght goes and signs for Swindon Town or the like where alot of the football instincts are not appreciated or else coached out of him to supplement the teams kick and run style.

Love to see the LOI tied in closer with the universities and IT's, relax work permit rules in order to attract different nationalities of player and this would in turn heighten the standard. Talented irish players would be used to playing different styles.

Until we have a functional league where we can develop our own players week in week out, we'll forever be relying on coaches across the water to provide our young lads with the bread and butter coaching.

CSF

Jayob10 wrote: »

We are completely in sync with the English game. We will never be that far removed culturally, given we will have to rely on players from the English league in the main.

Its all well and good training them in the basic fundamentals, its always a good thing.

Then Johnny from tallaght goes and signs for Swindon Town or the like where alot of the football instincts are not appreciated or else coached out of him to supplement the teams kick and run style.

Love to see the LOI tied in closer with the universities and IT's, relax work permit rules in order to attract different nationalities of player and this would in turn heighten the standard. Talented irish players would be used to playing different styles.

Until we have a functional league where we can develop our own players week in week out, we'll forever be relying on coaches across the water to provide our young lads with the bread and butter coaching.

Looking at where a large number of the players who made our squad/the majority of others wanted to be included in our squad, we do have that league.

Jayob10

kryogen wrote: »

I have no beef with Coleman being left out, he hasn't had a great season due to injury etc and he will have plenty of chances in the future to help drive the team forward, and it will more then likely be under a new manager because Trap is set in his ways, he does not play certain types of player a lot.

The like of Houlihan/McCarthy etc should also be at the Euros but they are not and have no future under Trap in reality

McCarthy opted out due to a family illness, blaming that on Trap is just plain lazy research.

Hoolohan is fastly becoming the new Andy Reid, a technical player yes, a decent option to have on the bench.
Will he vastly improve us? Hell no.

Jayob10

CSF wrote: »

Looking at where a large number of the players who made our squad/the majority of others wanted to be included in our squad, we do have that league.

How do you envision this revolution of coaching you speak of, playing out?

If all of these kids join English clubs at 14-16?

By that reasoning, we are actually only responsible for their more formative years. 16-19 is the crucial stage of development for the really talented kids.

We will still be developing players for export and at a younger age than any successful football nation

SirDelboy18

Jayob10 wrote: »

How do you envision this revolution of coaching you speak of, playing out?

If all of these kids join English clubs at 14-16?

By that reasoning, we are actually only responsible for their more formative years. 16-19 is the crucial stage of development for the really talented kids.

We will still be developing players for export and at a younger age than any successful football nation

Doyle, Long, McClean, Fahey, Ward, Coleman just some of those who have moved from the LOI

applehunter

Who was the langer with in the crowd with the whistle?

CSF

Jayob10 wrote: »

How do you envision this revolution of coaching you speak of, playing out?

If all of these kids join English clubs at 14-16?

By that reasoning, we are actually only responsible for their more formative years. 16-19 is the crucial stage of development for the really talented kids.

We will still be developing players for export and at a younger age than any successful football nation

I haven't spoken of any revolution of coaching, just getting our coaches qualified to do what they do. We're a few steps behind if we can't even get kids to be at a high level technically at 14-16.

All of these kids aren't joining English clubs at 14-16 by the way. 6 of the squad named by Trappatoni before injuries came from our national league. If you add the likes of Coleman and Hoolahan who many would argue should be in the squad, and then add the fact that 9 of the current Irish squad did not grow up in Ireland and are thus irrelevant to this scenario then we're not looking so bad.

donfers

is anyone worried about a hiding in the spanish game?

or will we defend like trojans for 85 minutes, then concede a late one that deflects in off O'shea's nose after a spanish player handled in the build-up?

so a hiding or our usual moral victory defeat - because i can't see it being anything but one of those two options at the moment

maybe i'll get more optimistic nearer the kick-off

ireland to beat spain in soccer next week and ireland to beat nz in rugby and we'd have beaten the two best in the world in soccer and rugby in a couple of days, it would be the greatest week in irish sporting history and the parties.....naw even while i am writing that i am not buying into it, it wouldn't even pass for entry into the fantasy genre

CSF

donfers wrote: »

is anyone worried about a hiding in the spanish game?

or will we defend like trojans for 85 minutes, then concede a late one that deflects in off O'shea's nose after a spanish player handled in the build-up?

so a hiding or our usual moral victory defeat - because i can't see it being anything but one of those two options at the moment

maybe i'll get more optimistic nearer the kick-off

ireland to beat spain in soccer next week and ireland to beat nz in rugby and we'd have beaten the two best in the world in soccer and rugby in a couple of days, it would be the greatest week in irish sporting history and the parties.....naw even while i am writing that i am not buying into it, it wouldn't even pass for entry into the fantasy genre

New Zealand can beat Ireland whatever score they like if it means Ireland can sneak a 0-0 draw against the Spanish.

kryogen

Jayob10 wrote: »

McCarthy opted out due to a family illness, blaming that on Trap is just plain lazy research.

Hoolohan is fastly becoming the new Andy Reid, a technical player yes, a decent option to have on the bench.
Will he vastly improve us? Hell no.

Oh yeah! Forgot about McCarthys dad, the point is not completely lost though, he is not likely to get the game time he deserves under Trap, Hoolohan is a talented player who has good ball retention skills and capable of a bit of magic.

Andy Reid he is not.

I see you agree that he should be in the squad anyway so no point in continuing with that one anyway

Xavi6

Before the tournament I thought we could get something out of the Spain game, defend them into boredom as such, but having watched us play in that game tonight...

kryogen

applehunter wrote: »

Who was the langer with in the crowd with the whistle?

He was at it at both ends

Jayob10

CSF wrote: »

I haven't spoken of any revolution of coaching, just getting our coaches qualified to do what they do. We're a few steps behind if we can't even get kids to be at a high level technically at 14-16.

All of these kids aren't joining English clubs at 14-16 by the way. 6 of the squad named by Trappatoni before injuries came from our national league. If you add the likes of Coleman and Hoolahan who many would argue should be in the squad, and then add the fact that 9 of the current Irish squad did not grow up in Ireland and are thus irrelevant to this scenario then we're not looking so bad.

we have plenty of kids at 14-16 at a high level. Its the early move to the UK that sees our involvement in their development come to an end. Then their fate (and ultimately Irish national teams) are in the hands of the UK clubs.

Coaching for those who stay in ireland from 16-19 isn't all that hectic.

having 6 players that came from the league of ireland may be an indicator of why the irish team is suffering. Some claim its because the league is improving, I think different.
Most of these players, Doyle, Forde, Ward, Long, McClean et al have a smaller ceiling of potential in my opinion. None have developed into really top players, McClean has been promising but i suspect he will plateau like the rest have.

The infrastructure around the league has to change, we need to invest heavily in developing our own league and giving not just those who dont make it in england, but the best of our kids the chance to play in an irish league. Take total control of their development.

Its pie in the sky right now, but ultimately we need a functioning and competitive league on a european level if we want to control our own destiny in terms of long term player development and implementing a philosophy on how the game should be played.

kitakyushu

CSF wrote: »

New Zealand can beat Ireland whatever score they like if it means Ireland can sneak a 0-0 draw against the Spanish.

It's eggball. New Zealand can beat Ireland by whatever score they like and it'll still make no difference to me.

kryogen

I actually hope the All Blacks give Ireland a proper pasting as its the only way I am likely to make any money off the game, other then that I couldnt care less

wonderfullife

applehunter wrote: »

Who was the langer with in the crowd with the whistle?

couldnt believe it either, especially on our goal, i was like "where the **** was the foul there?".

Worst thing is, if we could hear it surely the players could, must have made it very difficult on the day (it's instinctive to stop playing when you hear a whistle).

Kerrydude1981

We were the better team after we went down 1 nil,we passed the ball well and slowly got ourselves back into the game,then we scored and we went back to the plan,invited pressure on,couldnt keep the ball and paid the price,bloody sickening to be a Kerryman and an Ireland fan yesterday,roll on thursday,our backs are to the wall,we are no hopers please god we will come out and give the performance of our lives

applehunter

87% thought Ireland would beat Croatia according to RTE poll.

What does that prove?

Helix

applehunter wrote: »

87% thought Ireland would beat Croatia according to RTE poll.

What does that prove?

nothing we didnt already know

the realpigiron

applehunter wrote: »

Who was the langer with in the crowd with the whistle?

I really hope that he is identified by CCTV footage or whatever. Surely there will be a few in the crowd who will be able to identify the eejit and the security can make sure he is not allowed into any other game in the tournament.

kingshankly

Holy **** just had someone at work tell me trappatoni hasn't a clue and where it all went wrong.
yet last Friday I had to explain the offside rule to him.
:mad:

ROCKMAN

Just trying to find some hope for Thursdays match and all I can think is we have nothing to lose so maybe we can find a Paris like performance where we just when for it.

Will it happen ...doubt it but one can only dream............

Leftist

very disappointing, all their goals were lucky in some manner. Maybe not the third.

We are desperatly limited but props to the dawgs for fighting like badgers after going 3-1 down.

That's it then, Italy looked good against Spain and well, spain are going to embarrass us.

Mr. Loverman

Thank god my great grandmother was Spanish. I can just about trick myself into believing I am entitled to support Spain as well.

My great grandfather was English, but eh I dunno.

helimachoptor

Ireland to beat Spain to get our hopes up and then lose badly to Italy

niallo27

applehunter wrote: »

87% thought Ireland would beat Croatia according to RTE poll.

What does that prove?

That people can come up with statistics to prove anything. 14% of all people know that.

Banjaxed82

helimachoptor wrote: »

Ireland to beat Spain to get our hopes up and then lose badly to Italy

Nothing would surprise me more actually.

One good thing is that we have 2 games that are essentially must win, so none of this sitting deep nonsense. Sad thing is even if we do play as good as Paris, we're banking on Spain/Italy somehow having an offensive off day....

Leftist

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Nothing would surprise me more actually.

One good thing is that we have 2 games that are essentially must win, so none of this sitting deep nonsense. Sad thing is even if we do play as good as Paris, we're banking on Spain/Italy somehow having an offensive off day....

and remembering that france were atrocious then. As witnessed in the world cup group stages.

Xavi6

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Nothing would surprise me more actually.

One good thing is that we have 2 games that are essentially must win, so none of this sitting deep nonsense. Sad thing is even if we do play as good as Paris, we're banking on Spain/Italy somehow having an offensive off day....

Heh, good one

BraziliaNZ

I think we were very lucky in qualifying for this tournament to begin with. We could have lost by 3 or 4 goals in Moscow, we were well beaten by Russia at home, and scraped past the other lower tier teams in our group.
Last night we didn't get any of the luck, our luck was bad and we were due a pasting at some stage. I don't think we would have qualified if we had drawn anyone but Estonia, we haven't played well since Paris, one decent attacking performance and we didn't even win the game, yet we all harp on about it.
I'm hoping for a miracle but we could lose by 3 or 4 goals against Spain, sigh.

Unearthly

Looks like we are going to do a Greece as talked about.

Except It's a Greece 08

abouttobebanned

As many posters have said, we were always going to be whipping boys in this tournament. We're not playing our best players and we're not playing to our strengths. Trap's strange management decisions have been forgotten because we managed to qualify.

The truth is, as a nation, there was a lot to be embarrassed about last night. Italy and Spain are going to have fun against us. After last nights display they'll more than likely drop key players as well.

Leftist

are we the worst team in the tournament?
probably. Czech republic are a close 2nd worst but they almost beat us at home recently.

abouttobebanned

We are of course.

helimachoptor

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Nothing would surprise me more actually.

One good thing is that we have 2 games that are essentially must win, so none of this sitting deep nonsense. Sad thing is even if we do play as good as Paris, we're banking on Spain/Italy somehow having an offensive off day....

Agreed.. i'm pinning my hopes on a Paris like showing

Colonialboy

applehunter wrote: »

87% thought Ireland would beat Croatia according to RTE poll.

What does that prove?

13% of residents are Croats. ;-)

hard luck lads, Im too dissapointed to be critical , but Im very proud of the fans and that the team never gave up.

klose

Gutted, nothing to take from the game bar our crosses maybe. The ref didn't exactly help us either Tbf but we still got what we deserved, had we got that peno and scored it would have been a very different end to the game, its and buts though.
Still delighted were there and loving every moment and am really looking forward to the next 2games. God only knows what will happen, the head says well well get destroyed and the heart says other wise.
It must be said what a credit to the country the supporters, most vocal I've seen yet, even out on the town everyone was in great form.

Coybig!!

Maximus Alexander

All else aside, just watched the highlights and I was too upset last night to pay any mind, but I'm proper proud of the Irish support at the game. Belting out The Fields of Athenry at full time, almost brings a tear to the eye.

I'd imagine the lads on the field must have felt like ****, but that has to lift the spirits a little.

karma_

Given was definitely not fit and should not have played. Trap got into a hole of his own making last night, why on earth did he name the team so early then stick with it, even after the lessons of Hungary. McGeady should never have been taken off just as the game changed to a phase where Ireland needed to attack, the ball could have been worked out to him more. Not to mention the strange decision of Cox and Walters before Long.

Very disappointing night.

kfallon

Limited squad but what annoyed me the most was the goals we gave away, you'd think we'd be solid from set plays but we conceded terrible goals. If you are gonna give away cheap goals you'll get punished and we did. Tournament is over now for us but still we may as well go out and enjoy the next game.

And I have to say St Ledger's header was a belter but that's where the praise ends unfortunately!

MUSEIST

The irish support was immense yesterday but the performance was depressing and inept. Bilic won the tactical battle clearly and really impressed me. They nulified the irish threat.

BraziliaNZ

MUSEIST wrote: »

The irish support was immense yesterday but the performance was depressing and inept. Bilic won the tactical battle clearly and really impressed me. They nulified the irish threat.

Our gameplan is ridiculously obvious, a 2 year old could win the tactics battle. Can anyone see Trap making any changes? I'm not sure Gibson would improve things but he can't be much worse than Whelan.

leonidas83

Bringing Cox on for McGeady when we were chasing the game has to be the strangest decision ive seen in some time from Trap. It was a perfect opportunity to bring McClean on, nothing to lose, no pressure on him. Cox looked lost numerous times on the wing.

Its hard to be critical of Trap when he's taken us to our first euro's in over twenty years but he's got to start giving new blood a chance. There's no point in us qualifying for major tournaments if were going to get humiliated when we get there. For Houlihan, Coleman, not be considered for this tournament & having Long, Walters and McClean on the bench is beyond conservative especially considering what the alternative is. Theres no point in us being loyal to players who are just not good enough at this level.

I wonder how the team below would have got on against Croatia playing a more positive style of football last night

Given

Coleman Dunne O'Shea Ward


McClean Houlihan McCarthy Duff


Walters Long

fryup

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I don't think we would have qualified if we had drawn anyone but Estonia.

spot on, had it been any other team we wouldn't have qualified we used up all our luck drawing them in the play off

Francie Barrett

MUSEIST wrote: »

The irish support was immense yesterday but the performance was depressing and inept. Bilic won the tactical battle clearly and really impressed me. They nulified the irish threat.

Yep. He watched us a few times in friendlies before the match yesterday and set his team up perfectly to counter our threat. There were shades of Mike Bassett England Manager in the way were setup

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDMx3kYe7ZY