Ireland vs Croatia - Match thread

shano1888

leonidas83 wrote: »

Croatia arent some football superpower by any stretch. I think we made them look much better than they actually are last night, Greece beat them 2-0 in the qualifiers for gods sake. Two set pieces aswell, thats why we should have gotten a better result against them.

I will be shocked if they pick up another point to be honest.

antodeco

I'm sure this is all part of Traps 'shocker' he mentioned for the tournament. Lose the first game so the other teams think its easy, then go out and destroy them

monkey9

syklops wrote: »

Do teams with existing defences lose 3-1?

Yeah, Ireland lost 3-1 only last night!!

BraziliaNZ

What can we do going forward to the next 2 games? What changes do you think he'll make to the team, if any?

Tellox

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

What can we do going forward to the next 2 games? What changes do you think he'll make to the team, if any?

We can tuck our heads between our legs.

IamtheWalrus

shano1888 wrote: »

I will be shocked if they pick up another point to be honest.

It looks that way but you never know. For Ireland to perform in these tournaments against better quality oppositions we need spirited and heroics with large slices of luck to get through, as well as hoping the opposition don't perform to their best. These events are rare. You eventually be found out, as we were against Croatia. You can't blame bad luck when you lose 3-1.

IamtheWalrus

Francie Barrett wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nc-kgXz_OzU

Ole Ole Ole

Why do we have to make muppets out of ourselves on such big occasions?

Is it unpatriotic of me to cringe at that?

helimachoptor

Hard to know what Trap will do.
We need a win and tbh having the attitude of getting a draw against Spain and beating Italy will not end well.

We should go out and play attacking football and try to beat Spain (unlikely) but the other option is sit with 11 men behind the ball and wait for the inevitable goal.

Banjaxed82

plasmaguy wrote: »

Trap did a good job to get us to the Euros but there is only so much you can do with a team of bottom half of EPL/Championship players against the likes of Croatia.

So it had nothing to do with the system/tactics he plays or his choice of players?

shano1888

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

It looks that way but you never know. For Ireland to perform in these tournaments against better quality oppositions we need spirited and heroics with large slices of luck to get through, as well as hoping the opposition don't perform to their best. These events are rare. You eventually be found out, as we were against Croatia. You can't blame bad luck when you lose 3-1.

I meant Croatia. Ireland WILL get four points!!

leonidas83

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Is it unpatriotic of me to cringe at that?

NO, not at all, im in the exact same both as you;)

syklops

monkey9 wrote: »

Yeah, Ireland lost 3-1 only last night!!

So do you think their defence was intact then?

briany

helimachoptor wrote: »

Hard to know what Trap will do.
We need a win and tbh having the attitude of getting a draw against Spain and beating Italy will not end well.

We should go out and play attacking football and try to beat Spain (unlikely) but the other option is sit with 11 men behind the ball and wait for the inevitable goal.

I just can't see Ireland having the organisation or bottle to hold Spain out for 90 minutes if they decide to defend. Besides that, I can't see them providing the service or having the imagination to get a goal at the other end if Ireland go ahead and attack. If Spain play anything like they can play, it's hard to see anything other than a comprehensive defeat for Ireland.

Mr Alan

Jimmy Iovine wrote: »

Desperately disappointing result. When you see this kind of stuff from the Irish fans over there then ya can't help but smile about it all. Singing the Home and Away theme tune to drown out the Croatians on the tram. Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hHGan5YIWg

That is pretty comical, can someone please provide the full link, can't find it on YouTube and want to mail it to someone

kitakyushu

Mr Alan wrote: »

That is pretty comical, can someone please provide the full link, can't find it on YouTube and want to mail it to someone

You mean this? -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hHGan5YIWg

Pighead

Really disappointing result last night. Thought we were going to go on and win it when we got the equalizer but unfortunately the team couldn't kick on from that. Second goal for them was a real sickener and the fact it was offside didn't help matters either.

secman

Given's recent injuries meant he hadn't trained sharply of late and it showed. The 2 full backs never closed down the crosses, they were lining up all day for the crosses. Playing the 2 wingers on their wrong side definitely doesn't help, they didn't help the full backs to cut out crosses. The 2 wingers keep turning inside to get the ball on their good foot, these type of crosses are easier to defend. McGeady was terrible yet again. The 2 central midfielders are just 2 work horses. We have had 2 years to groom James McCarthy into a palymaker in the middle of the park, every decent side has one. We only created some chances when Croatia sat back to protect their 2 goal lead. Andrews had 3 good half chances especially the free header, not one of them made the keeper work, all off target. Putting Cox on the left wing was mind boggling !!!!!.

The problem with Trapp is, he is a tactical dinosaur, the game has moved on. Jaysus even Italy have a paly amker in Pirlo. Its sad to see the palyers being used this way, i'm sure they would prefer to play. Look at what the did in Paris when allowed to paly.

Secman

the realpigiron

briany wrote: »

I just can't see Ireland having the organisation or bottle to hold Spain out for 90 minutes if they decide to defend. Besides that, I can't see them providing the service or having the imagination to get a goal at the other end if Ireland go ahead and attack. If Spain play anything like they can play, it's hard to see anything other than a comprehensive defeat for Ireland.

The only option is to play a high tempo game and keep as high a line as possible. It's a high risk option, but it is the ONLY option. They might surprise Spain and rattle them like they did with France in Paris. It's their only hope of any kind of a result that saves face - even a gallant defeat.

Ireland do not have the technical ability to soak up pressure against a team like Spain. If Ireland attempt to sit back and soak up Spanish pressure with the hopes of hitting them on the break they will be absolutely hammered.

Mr Alan

kitakyushu wrote: »

You mean this? -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hHGan5YIWg

Thanks a million. Annoying trying to get it when posting from phone!

briany

the realpigiron wrote: »

The only option is to play a high tempo game and keep as high a line as possible. It's a high risk option, but it is the ONLY option. They might surprise Spain and rattle them like they did with France in Paris. It's their only hope of any kind of a result that saves face - even a gallant defeat.

Ireland do not have the technical ability to soak up pressure against a team like Spain. If Ireland attempt to sit back and soak up Spanish pressure with the hopes of hitting them on the break they will be absolutely hammered.

I think will be something Ireland try to do but the difference is that in Paris, Ireland played a French side who didn't want to know at times, who arrogantly thought they'd already done enough to qualify which was a huge help. On Thursday, however, Ireland will be playing the World/Euro champions who are still in the mix to qualify and will be looking very much toward picking up a handy 3 points vs. (let's face it, rightly) the least fancied team in group C. As much as I try to try, it's hard to imagine a tactic - high line, deep line, whatever - that will be rewarded and won't be punished if the Spanish show up.

aidan24326

shano1888 wrote: »

I meant Croatia. Ireland WILL get four points!!

No we won't. There isn't a chance of it now.

secman wrote: »

Look at what the did in Paris when allowed to play.

People often reference the Paris performance but that has to be taken in context, in that we were playing a French team who weren't up for it, some of them not even wanting to play for Donkey Domenech. Plus they would have been a bit complacent aswell having won in Dublin.

Last night we were shown up as the limited team we are. There's no creativity at all in this Ireland team. The only way we were ever going to score was from a corner or a freekick.

The lads on RTE called it right. That we get away with giving the ball away so much against poorer teams because they haven't got the quality to take advantage but that against better opposition like Croatia we got punished, and it's hard to see how we'll get away with it against Spain either.

ben.schlomo

Something which really irritated me in the second half was Duffs delivery on set pieces, absolutely woeful, high looping bombs, not an ounce of whip on the ball, he has to be removed from set piece duties when McGeady isnt on the pitch. We rely massively on set pieces as we are so devoid of creativity and to have each and every one of his wasted is just criminal.

Leftist

shano1888 wrote: »

I meant Croatia. Ireland WILL get four points!!

plasmaguy

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

So it had nothing to do with the system/tactics he plays or his choice of players?

Traps a great manager and has forgotten more about tactics and "systems" whatever that is supposed to mean in the context of football, than you or most people on here will ever know, so lets knock that one on the head right away.

The Croatian midfield have Modric in the middle of the park, the Italians have Pirlo, the Spanish Xavi.

Have we anyone to compare with that? I am Keith Andrews biggest fan but he's not in the same league as them. There is no-one in Ireland or the UK of Irish nationality of the same quality as the three centre midfielders I mentioned.

I give Trap a lot of credit for getting us to the Euros, but when we lack that sort of quality in the centre of the park, ie world class distributors of the ball, you will always be on the back foot. If we had such a world class distributor we should play him. The nearest we'd have is Stephen Ireland, but he's unreliable.

aidan24326

plasmaguy wrote: »

. The nearest we'd have is Stephen Ireland, but he's unreliable.

Stephen Ireland isn't a whole lot better than what we have.

jmayo

plasmaguy wrote: »

Traps a great manager and has forgotten more about tactics and "systems" whatever that is supposed to mean in the context of football, than you or most people on here will ever know, so lets knock that one on the head right away.

Correction Trap WAS a great manager.
I think you are onto something when you say he has forgotten stuff.
He must be suffering from Alyzeimers or something becuase he appeared to have forgotten he had one of the best young wingers in the Pl on the bench and instead chose to put on a so so centre forward in his position.

plasmaguy wrote: »

The Croatian midfield have Modric in the middle of the park, the Italians have Pirlo, the Spanish Xavi.

Modric is not the be all and end all, granted he is way better than any of ours.
We could have had McCarthy playing, but even when available Trap chose to ignore him.
He has also chosen to ignore Seamus Colman and people like Wes Holihan.
Instead we have people like mcshambles, ward and doyle whose form has been poor all season.

plasmaguy wrote: »

I give Trap a lot of credit for getting us to the Euros

A lot of it was sheer luck and some world class displays by old hands like Dunne and Given who prevented last night occurring in Moscow.

plasmaguy

jmayo wrote: »

Correction Trap WAS a great manager.
I think you are onto something when you say he has forgotten stuff.
He must be suffering from Alyzeimers or something becuase he appeared to have forgotten he had one of the best young wingers in the Pl on the bench and instead chose to put on a so so centre forward in his position.



Modric is not the be all and end all, granted he is way better than any of ours.
We could have had McCarthy playing, but even when available Trap chose to ignore him.
He has also chosen to ignore Seamus Colman and people like Wes Holihan.
Instead we have people like mcshambles, ward and doyle whose form has been poor all season.



A lot of it was sheer luck and some world class displays by old hands like Dunne and Given who prevented last night occurring in Moscow.

You simply cannot ignore the fact that the Croatians were technically a superior side to us and all the systems and tactics and strategy and whatever you want to call it in the world will not change that.

It will be the same against the Spanish, they are far superior individually/technically than us and we will have very little possession of the football. That's not Trap's fault, in fact it's no-ones 'fault' as the Spanish are inidividually great players.

Tactics and systems only get you so far in football, you need technical ability as well which a lot of our players don't have.

As for comparing Wes Houlihan with Modric, that's clutching at straws to be honest.

Jayob10

Lads i'm getting the Ireland job after the tournament. And this will be my first squad. Out with the old and in with the new

Keepers
Shay Given, Kieron Westwood, David Forde

Defenders
Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson, Greg Cunningham, Aidy White, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea, Sean St.Ledger, Ciaran Clark, Shane Duffy, Alex Pearce

Midfielders
Aiden McGeady, Robbie Brady, Damien Duff, James McClean, David Meyler, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy, Stephen Ireland, Glen Whelan, Jeff Hendrick, Samir Carruthers, Wes Hoolohan

Strikers
Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Kevin Doyle, Robbie Keane, Anthony Stokes

Some players would not pull on the green shirt again regardless of excellent attitude. They just don't possess the quality required- Paul McShane, Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Keith Andrews, Stephen Hunt, Andy Keogh, Paul Green.

leonidas83

plasmaguy wrote: »

You simply cannot ignore the fact that the Croatians were technically a superior side to us and all the systems and tactics and strategy and whatever you want to call it in the world will not change that.

It will be the same against the Spanish, they are far superior individually/technically than us and we will have very little possession of the football. That's not Trap's fault, in fact it's no-ones 'fault' as the Spanish are inidividually great players.

Tactics and systems only get you so far in football, you need technical ability as well which a lot of our players don't have.

As for comparing Wes Houlihan with Modric, that's clutching at straws to be honest.

WTF, u serious, Wes is a deadly player, have u seen him play for Norwich this season

leonidas83

Jayob10 wrote: »

Lads i'm getting the Ireland job after the tournament. And this will be my first squad. Out with the old and in with the new

Keepers
Shay Given, Kieron Westwood, David Forde

Defenders
Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson, Greg Cunningham, Aidy White, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea, Sean St.Ledger, Ciaran Clark, Shane Duffy, Alex Pearce

Midfielders
Aiden McGeady, Robbie Brady, Damien Duff, James McClean, David Meyler, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy, Stephen Ireland, Glen Whelan, Jeff Hendrick, Samir Carruthers, Wes Hoolohan

Strikers
Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Kevin Doyle, Robbie Keane, Anthony Stokes

Some players would not pull on the green shirt again regardless of excellent attitude. They just don't possess the quality required- Paul McShane, Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Keith Andrews, Stephen Hunt, Andy Keogh, Paul Green.

Im no fan of Andrews but he was one of our best players last night and more than deserves a place in the squad especially over someone like Sami Carruthers

plasmaguy

Jayob10 wrote: »

Lads i'm getting the Ireland job after the tournament. And this will be my first squad. Out with the old and in with the new

Keepers
Shay Given, Kieron Westwood, David Forde

Defenders
Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson, Greg Cunningham, Aidy White, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea, Sean St.Ledger, Ciaran Clark, Shane Duffy, Alex Pearce

Midfielders
Aiden McGeady, Robbie Brady, Damien Duff, James McClean, David Meyler, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy, Stephen Ireland, Glen Whelan, Jeff Hendrick, Samir Carruthers, Wes Hoolohan

Strikers
Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Kevin Doyle, Robbie Keane, Anthony Stokes

Some players would not pull on the green shirt again regardless of excellent attitude. They just don't possess the quality required- Paul McShane, Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Keith Andrews, Stephen Hunt, Andy Keogh, Paul Green.

WTF?? :rolleyes:

He was the only one who tried last night, was good against Latvia home and away and Russia away, France in Paris and most other games. He's one of our most consistent players and always gives 110%. I'd say he's the first man on Trap's teamsheet or one of the first.

Jayob10

plasmaguy wrote: »

You simply cannot ignore the fact that the Croatians were technically a superior side to us and all the systems and tactics and strategy and whatever you want to call it in the world will not change that.

It will be the same against the Spanish, they are far superior individually/technically than us and we will have very little possession of the football. That's not Trap's fault, in fact it's no-ones 'fault' as the Spanish are inidividually great players.

Tactics and systems only get you so far in football, you need technical ability as well which a lot of our players don't have.

As for comparing Wes Houlihan with Modric, that's clutching at straws to be honest.

I think Hoolohan's stock is rising every minute we lose the ball. He is far from the technical genius he is being made out to be. He would not improve the starting XI.

But he should have been given time to prove he is worthy of a squad place. Makes much more sense to have a different kind of player like him on the bench as opposed to Paul Green. That cannot be disputed.

tolosenc

plasmaguy wrote: »

You simply cannot ignore the fact that the Croatians were technically a superior side to us and all the systems and tactics and strategy and whatever you want to call it in the world will not change that.

Yep. I mean, we didn't loose possession solely by playing hoofball. We couldn't put 5 passes together without turning it over. We were just outclassed.

I see that we have players to play a different style of game, but I don't see any technically great Irish players that would make this aspect of our game much better.

Francie Barrett

Jayob10 wrote: »

Keepers
Shay Given, Kieron Westwood, David Forde

Defenders
Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson, Greg Cunningham, Aidy White, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea, Sean St.Ledger, Ciaran Clark, Shane Duffy, Alex Pearce

Midfielders
Aiden McGeady, Robbie Brady, Damien Duff, James McClean, David Meyler, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy, Stephen Ireland, Glen Whelan, Jeff Hendrick, Samir Carruthers, Wes Hoolohan

Strikers
Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Kevin Doyle, Robbie Keane, Anthony Stokes

Nice squad. I would start with the following team. Midfield would be key with McCarthy playing the defensive breaker up of play, Gibson acting as the deep lying playmaker and Hoolahan as the maestro who links up the attack.

---

Given
Coleman - Dunne - Duffy - Clark
McClean - Gibson - McCarthy - Duff

---

Hoolahan

---

Long

Jayob10

leonidas83 wrote: »

Im no fan of Andrews but he was one of our best players last night and more than deserves a place in the squad especially over someone like Sami Carruthers

He'll be 32 years old at the beginning of World Cup qualifying. 34 by the time the world cup rolls around.

We need to construct a new midfield for the beginning of the new campaign and I would be disappointed if Andrews was part of it to be honest.

He was decent last night yes, but I'd base it on the bigger picture rather than last nights performance.

Long and short of it, Whelan and Andrews are neither ball winners or ball players. Neither possess the desired pace or engine to get box to box or to press effectively.
The future will be Meyler and McCarthy, i'd actually favour us playing a 3 man midfield to stiffle opposition.

Everyone talks about the need to play more attractive football, but theres an argument to be made that we'd be better if we could actually stifle opposition more effectively. We don't play much football in midfield, but take a look we don't win much ball either. All Andrews and Whelan provide are two bodies who keep their shape.
Good teams will play through them, any midfielder who drops between the lines gives static 4-4-2 central midfielders, fits. Neither of them can go man for man as they don't have the physical gifts.

I think its unrealistic to expect us to find midfielders to dictate the play and pull the strings. But for a country like Ireland we should have no problem finding quick, athletic ball winners for the middle of the field who can press effectively and win possession.

If you don't have these qualities you simply have to get an extra man into midfield and sacrifice a striker. Against better sides you simply have to do this.

In our current system one of the strikers is rendered redundant by playing percentage long balls. When the ball breaks back into midfield we are 9 times out of ten beaten to the second ball.

plasmaguy

Jayob10 wrote: »

I think Hoolohan's stock is rising every minute we lose the ball. He is far from the technical genius he is being made out to be. He would not improve the starting XI.

But he should have been given time to prove he is worthy of a squad place. Makes much more sense to have a different kind of player like him on the bench as opposed to Paul Green. That cannot be disputed.

You could be right but against the likes of Spain, I think it may be a case of needing to park the bus. Will be interesting to see what approach Trap takes, go for the normal 4-4-2 and risk the Spanish midfield running the show, or go 4-5-1 and crowd the midfield.

I don't think Doyle or Keane will see much of the ball against the Spanish, that said, the are a very small team bar Pique and one or two others, so setpieces might be our best chance, corners, free kicks, etc. as we have 4 or 5 big players.

I reckon Traps approach will be 4-5-1 with either a forward dropping back as an extra midfielder or else dropping a forward and playing someone like Hunt who never stops running and tackling. Then hope to nick a goal from a setpiece.

Trap may be a "dinosaur" but I'm sure he knows how to park the bus, in fact he probably invented it decades ago.

Francie Barrett

Jayob10 wrote: »

The future will be Meyler and McCarthy, i'd actually favour us playing a 3 man midfield to stiffle opposition.

I would be more confident that Jeff Hendrick would make the step up than Meyler. Derby player of the year and was exceptional when I saw him last year. Has only just turned 20 as well.

secman

A creative player like Moderic prob would not get a game under Trapp, seems if you have flair you are out.......... something about MENTALITY according to Trapp.
Can't understand Liam Brady not having a go at Trapp over this as he suffered under Jack Charlton.

Its great to see managers like SAF and Martin o'Neill, where age doesn't matter, good enough is what matters.

The brand of footy under Trapp is SO frustrating to watch...........

Hopefully we get a good response from the lads and get a draw against Spain, keeps it somewaht alive..............


Secman

the realpigiron

Jayob10 wrote: »

Lads i'm getting the Ireland job after the tournament. And this will be my first squad. Out with the old and in with the new

Keepers
Shay Given, Kieron Westwood, David Forde

Defenders
Seamus Coleman, Marc Wilson, Greg Cunningham, Aidy White, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea, Sean St.Ledger, Ciaran Clark, Shane Duffy, Alex Pearce

Midfielders
Aiden McGeady, Robbie Brady, Damien Duff, James McClean, David Meyler, Darron Gibson, James McCarthy, Stephen Ireland, Glen Whelan, Jeff Hendrick, Samir Carruthers, Wes Hoolohan

Strikers
Shane Long, Jonathan Walters, Kevin Doyle, Robbie Keane, Anthony Stokes

Some players would not pull on the green shirt again regardless of excellent attitude. They just don't possess the quality required- Paul McShane, Stephen Ward, Darren O'Dea, Keith Andrews, Stephen Hunt, Andy Keogh, Paul Green.

I'd say Robbie Keane will quit international football at the end of this tournament. He's kind of semi-retired playing in the MLS at this stage.

What we really need when Euro 2012 is over is a change of manager. I think Trap did a great job when he managed to get this team qualified for this tournament, but he must realise himself that he can't take this team any further. He is placing an Italian style system on our players which has worked up to a point, but without technically strong players like what Italy have the system is ultimately restrictive. I reckon we need someone new with a fresh approach to come in and expand on what Trap has built. I know we wont sack Trap, but perhaps he will see he can take the team no further himself.

Jayob10

plasmaguy wrote: »

You could be right but against the likes of Spain, I think it may be a case of needing to park the bus. Will be interesting to see what approach Trap takes, go for the normal 4-4-2 and risk the Spanish midfield running the show, or go 4-5-1 and crowd the midfield.

I don't think Doyle or Keane will see much of the ball against the Spanish, that said, the are a very small team bar Pique and one or two others, so setpieces might be our best chance, corners, free kicks, etc. as we have 4 or 5 big players.

I reckon Traps approach will be 4-5-1 with either a forward dropping back as an extra midfielder or else dropping a forward and playing someone like Hunt who never stops running and tackling. Then hope to nick a goal from a setpiece.

Trap may be a "dinosaur" but I'm sure he knows how to park the bus, in fact he probably invented it decades ago.

Trap has made a career out of parking the bus and trying to absorb pressure in order to nick a goal on the break.

I believe we can be more effective at doing this. As i said, expecting champagne one touch passing is pie in the sky. But we can be more solid.

We don't have an effective defensive midfielder for instance who can stifle an opposition playmaker for instance. We are just intent to let other do their own thing asking them to "go ahead and try and break us down". The problem is the better sides will break us down.

Higher tempo, more aggression and pressing in the midfield is needed in my opinion. Whelan and Andrews don't win any possession nor can they dictate play.

I actually get angry when I see Andrew or Whelan making shapes in the middle of the field, holding their central position when they have no real intention of receiving the ball. you dont have to be Xavi or Pirlo to be someone who will always provide an outball.

I simply refuse to believe these 2 are the best we can come up with. I'm not a fan of Gibson either but surely he is a better option.

We can do what Trap wants to do, but more effectively with just a few small changes. With whats there, i'd be moving JOS into the centre with Dunne. I'd get Stephen Kelly at right full and ask him to provide an overlap.

I'd drop Keane right back into the midfield, the tip of the diamond and give him a licence to get on the ball when he is deep.

Teams know what to do against us, double up on the wingers and we can do nothing. centrally we are devoid of any ideas. The philosophy is to get it wide and see what happens. When that avenue is closed its a case of punt it up the field and see what happens.

Trap gets far too much credit, its not exactly a scientific approach.

There are many ways to plat defensive football, I think he is choosing the wrong way, and also the wrong personnel.

Jayob10

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I would be more confident that Jeff Hendrick would make the step up than Meyler. Derby player of the year and was exceptional when I saw him last year. Has only just turned 20 as well.

Meyler is an athlete, can cover ground and can win possession. We have nothing like this in the squad. I'm not claiming he is a world beater, but he is a different option.
A player who would be ideal for playing a pressing game, a player who can frustrate a typical opposition number 10.

Whelan and Andrews don't do this, they revert to holding their shape and ask and opponent to try and play through them.

You can be proactive in frustrating opponents, looking to win possession rather than hoping you can force an error.

The Spain game is going to be very interesting. Ireland rely on unforced errors in order to win the ball back. the 2 banks of 4 being like a wall. But Spain make damn all unforced errors. They will just wait and wait and wait, keep ball.

Its not inconceivable that we won't get a kick.

plasmaguy

Well given the players we have in the squad, I don't think we are going to outclass Xavi and Inniesta(if he plays in midfield) in terms of spraying the ball about and threading nice neat through balls onto fast attackers.

I don't think Wes Houlihan or James McCarthy equally would outclass them in this department either, we aren't going to score more goals than Spain by playing open expansive football in the middle of the park.

I think the formula for dealing with the Spanish and Barcelona midfield has been well tried, it's 4-5-1. We really aren't going to outplay the likes of Xavi, Inniesta, Silva or play better footie than them, no matter who we had in there, Houlihan, McCarthy, Coleman and so on.

Very pessimistic about the Spanish match.

jmayo

plasmaguy wrote: »

You simply cannot ignore the fact that the Croatians were technically a superior side to us and all the systems and tactics and strategy and whatever you want to call it in the world will not change that.

I am not ignoring fact that they have some skilful players, but lets face it they are nothing of the ability of the Croatian team of the 90s.
My point is that our tactics and systems were also shown up last night.
BTW it wasn't just that the Croats were better in terms of skill, they are also a big physical side and they bossed the likes of Dunne.

plasmaguy wrote: »

It will be the same against the Spanish, they are far superior individually/technically than us and we will have very little possession of the football. That's not Trap's fault, in fact it's no-ones 'fault' as the Spanish are inidividually great players.

The Spanish are far more gifted than the Croats, but they don't have the physicality.
Hell they don't even sometimes play with a centre forward of any sort.
But their ability to keep the ball and make cutting passes is what will crucify us.
You can make up somewhat for a deficit in skill by having tactics and systems where people do a job and stick to it.
We didn't last night.

For example see how the Greeks won the damm.

plasmaguy wrote: »

As for comparing Wes Houlihan with Modric, that's clutching at straws to be honest.

Did I compare them in terms of ability ?
What I was trying to allude to is the fact Trap will not contenance giving these guys a chance and surely some of the guys left out have more to offer than some of the ones on the pitch never mind the ones on the bench.

plasmaguy wrote: »

WTF?? :rolleyes:

He was the only one who tried last night, was good against Latvia home and away and Russia away, France in Paris and most other games. He's one of our most consistent players and always gives 110%. I'd say he's the first man on Trap's teamsheet or one of the first.

As Padraig Harrington said, usually to be always consistent one must always be average, or words to that affect.
And in terms of the likes of Andrews and Whelan the word average comes to mind.

plasmaguy

jmayo wrote: »

As Padraig Harrington said, usually to be always consistent one must always be average, or words to that affect.
And in terms of the likes of Andrews and Whelan the word average comes to mind.

Andrews is usually outstanding for Ireland and very often our best player, he's back helping out the defence and making blocks and crucial tackles, his passing is better than a lot of people give credit for, example his pass to Keane for the penalty shout, his shooting is usually good, probably the best on the team, he's usually a good header in the air. He was the only one who looked anyways decent last night and he's a real box to box player.

There was no-one else apart from Andrews last night who came away from that game with any great credit.

So credit where credit is due to Andrews.

There is no point being a world class player if you are no-where to be seen on the big occasion and some of our so called world class players were invisible last night.

wonderfullife

I know it's totally pie in the sky right now but can you just imagine the buzz going into the Italy game if we somehow beat Spain!!!! The worst we would mathematically be is level 2nd on 3 points and at best (with a croatia win) table would be:

Croatia - 6
Ireland - 3
Italy - 1
Spain - 1

If Croatia draw:

Croatia - 4
Ireland - 3
Italy - 2
Spain - 1

Beat Spain and cheer on the Croats and we face Italy with our destiny in our hands!!!!!! (or get spanked 4-1 by Spain meh)!

Dare to dream!!!!!!!! It would rank right up there with Giants Stadium, Stuttgart etc if we could somehow do it

helimachoptor

wonderfullife wrote: »

Dare to dream!!!!!!!! It would rank right up there with Giants Stadium, Stuttgart etc if we could somehow do it

Beating Spain would be the best footballing result Ireland will ever have achieved by a big margin.
however.. we'd then go and get spanked by Italy

wonderfullife

helimachoptor wrote: »

Beating Spain would be the best footballing result Ireland will ever have achieved by a big margin.
however.. we'd then go and get spanked by Italy

Buzz Killington!!! Damn your pragmatic realism

IvySlayer

One positive, I got Croatia in the sweepstake at work...

helimachoptor

wonderfullife wrote: »

Buzz Killington!!! Damn your pragmatic realism

Haha i'm not that pragmatic!
I think if we gave it our all we'd nick a a win (in now way shape or form would we out play them) however our players would be so wrecked from the 90 mins they'd have nothing left in the tank against Italy

briany

"They can go through, they can go through" - Said by Bilic (straight faced) in the wake of his side's defeat of Ireland about Ireland's prospects. Some credentials he's got there, not only manager of Croatia but also the master of deadpan comedy