Ireland vs Croatia - Match thread

plasmaguy

Like every team who plays the Spanish, we will be chasing shadows for ninety minutes.

Our best formation realistically would be 4-5-1 and I'd even go for Shane Long up front and let him have a run at Pique.

I don't think either Robbie or Doyler will make much inroads against Spain, particularly Robbie.

Trap really has nothing to lose now, he can afford to be a little adventurous. Plan A is out the window at this stage. Might be worth giving McClean a start too.

eagle eye

leonidas83 wrote: »

Im no fan of Andrews but he was one of our best players last night and more than deserves a place in the squad especially over someone like Sami Carruthers

I really don't get this at all. Just because he had a couple of efforts on goal late in the game people are saying he played reasonably well. He was playing central midfield and we were overrun there last night, they didn't even provide any protection to the back four. He was really poor last night as was Whelan imo.

I've seen Keith Andrews play a lot more than most I think given I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan. He always struggles against a top quality midfield but does well against average or worse. I like the guy a lot and really respect the way he has made himself a career in the Premier League after tumbling down the divisions and looking set to be a lower league player for the rest of his days at 27 years old. I don't want to be running down his performance but last night he was very poor, those couple of efforts he had towards the end were when Croatia started to sit back with a two goal lead.

Btw I do think he should be in the squad going forward until we find some talent to play there.

wonderfullife

briany wrote: »

"They can go through, they can go through" - Said by Bilic (straight faced) in the wake of his side's defeat of Ireland about Ireland's prospects. Some credentials he's got there, not only manager of Croatia but also the master of deadpan comedy

I'm sure Bilic is smarter than the average bear!!! Course he wants to give us a bit of optimism and hope....if we take anything off Spain it suits Croatia down to the ground!!!

plasmaguy

eagle eye wrote: »

I really don't get this at all. Just because he had a couple of efforts on goal late in the game people are saying he played reasonably well. He was playing central midfield and we were overrun there last night, they didn't even provide any protection to the back four. He was really poor last night as was Whelan imo.

I've seen Keith Andrews play a lot more than most I think given I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan. He always struggles against a top quality midfield but does well against average or worse. I like the guy a lot and really respect the way he has made himself a career in the Premier League after tumbling down the divisions and looking set to be a lower league player for the rest of his days at 27 years old. I don't want to be running down his performance but last night he was very poor, those couple of efforts he had towards the end were when Croatia started to sit back with a two goal lead.

Btw I do think he should be in the squad going forward until we find some talent to play there.

He set up the penalty shout for Robbie, he got himself into a good position for the header although should have scored.

He was certainly far better than McGeady, St. Ledger and a couple others, to be fair. As for Whelan he was annonymous, at least Andrews set up the penalty chance.

We weren't just overrun in centre of midfield, we were over-run on the wings just as much.

Jayob10

eagle eye wrote: »

I really don't get this at all. Just because he had a couple of efforts on goal late in the game people are saying he played reasonably well. He was playing central midfield and we were overrun there last night, they didn't even provide any protection to the back four. He was really poor last night as was Whelan imo.

I've seen Keith Andrews play a lot more than most I think given I'm a Blackburn Rovers fan. He always struggles against a top quality midfield but does well against average or worse. I like the guy a lot and really respect the way he has made himself a career in the Premier League after tumbling down the divisions and looking set to be a lower league player for the rest of his days at 27 years old. I don't want to be running down his performance but last night he was very poor, those couple of efforts he had towards the end were when Croatia started to sit back with a two goal lead.

Btw I do think he should be in the squad going forward until we find some talent to play there.

even though he is 31 years old I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments

Colonialboy

or to put it this way ..we were beaten by the better teams ...

Villa
Leicester Wolves Sunderland Aston Villa
Stoke spartak moscow west brom fulham
Wolves la galaxy
Subs : Stoke west brom west brom
Rostov
Tottenham Eintract dynamo Zagreb dynamo Zagreb
Sevilla Spurs Spartak Moscow Shaktar Donetsk
Everton Hamburg
Subs used Spurs Dortmund Shaktar Donetsk

hard luck lads. stoke wolves west brom, strike fear into an opponents heart..Still what I love about soccer is the underdog always has a chance, luck,effort and making no mistakes ... not our night though

wonderfullife

eagle eye wrote: »

I really don't get this at all. Just because he had a couple of efforts on goal late in the game people are saying he played reasonably well. He was playing central midfield and we were overrun there last night, they didn't even provide any protection to the back four. He was really poor last night as was Whelan imo.

He made some good tackles, had 7 shots in the match and covered the most distance of anybody on the park on either side (according to the official UEFA stats):

Andrews - 11,769 metres
Duff - 11,748 metres
Vukojevic - 11,413 metres

He was by some way our best player, which is not saying much, but comparing his performance to Whelan is a disservice to Keith, he was head and shoulders above Whelan.

Colonialboy

wonderfullife wrote: »

He made some good tackles, had 7 shots in the match and covered the most distance of anybody on the park on either side (according to the official UEFA stats):

Andrews - 11,769 metres
Duff - 11,748 metres
Vukojevic - 11,413 metres

He was by some way our best player, which is not saying much, but comparing his performance to Whelan is a disservice to Keith, he was head and shoulders above Whelan.

Andrews covers that much distance cos he spends alot of time runnig backwards when we have possession.
Have you heard of 'give and go' .. Andrews version is 'give and go backwards'
You wont take an opponent out of the game if your midfielder wont give and go for the return doesnt have to be everytime but 50% would be good enough. He has the engine to run up and down all day, that should be part of our plan, release him forward and let someone fill in the gap.

Nothing worse than midfielder coming to get the ball from the back four, recieve it and knock it back and then raise his arm and point upfield to hoof it..

What was impressive was when he did get forward on his own ball we put them under pressure, especially at 1-0 down, but when we went 1-1 the whole team dropped too deep on top of the back four.

He got turned so easy by Modric, he should have learnt a bit after his first few shimmys as to what he does.

plasmaguy

Colonialboy wrote: »

Andrews covers that much distance cos he spends alot of time runnig backwards when we have possession.
Have you heard of 'give and go' .. Andrews version is 'give and go backwards'
You wont take an opponent out of the game if your midfielder wont give and go for the return doesnt have to be everytime but 50% would be good enough. He has the engine to run up and down all day, that should be part of our plan, release him forward and let someone fill in the gap.

Nothing worse than midfielder coming to get the ball from the back four, recieve it and knock it back and then raise his arm and point upfield to hoof it..

What was impressive was when he did get forward on his own ball we put them under pressure, especially at 1-0 down, but when we went 1-1 the whole team dropped too deep on top of the back four.

He got turned so easy by Modric, he should have learnt a bit after his first few shimmys as to what he does.

He covers that much distance because he is a box to box player.

Name me a single Irish player who played better than Andrews last night?

I know there is an anti Andrews Bandwagon and most of the people who jump on it don't really understand football or just allow others dicate what they think themselves.

An unbiased assessment of last nights game would tell you that Andrews was the only one who at least looked like scoring and creating.

He was not at fault for the goals, all of which came from defensive mistakes at setpieces.

If the defence didn't mess up and Ireland won that game, people would be hailing Andrews a hero.

It's easy to focus on Andrews because he's in the middle of the park.

But a lot of players last night just didn't turn up, it wasn't their fault, the Croats just were excellent I thought.

Blaming Andrews for everything is just populist nonsense by people who make no serious attempt to analyse games or where our short comings were last night.

Andrews was our best player by a long long way.

G.K.

Doyle, Duff and Walters were better in my opinion.

noodler

I thought Andrews was decent without really standing out.

Not something I would really argue about - best 5 players were all Croatian.

Oh, I am letting myself build up the Spanish game now - as if we have a chance! Its the hope that gets you!

sonic85

plasmaguy wrote: »

I know there is an anti Andrews Bandwagon and most of the people who jump on it don't really understand football or just allow others dicate what they think themselves.

He was not at fault for the goals, all of which came from defensive mistakes at setpieces.

that bit in bold seems to be a default statement when one person doesnt agree with anothers opinion. must be loads of people on this forum that dont understand football then because ive seen that phrase used numerous times.

i actually thought he was partially at fault for the first goal to be honest. he was only a few yards off the line yet made no attempt to head the ball clear. just let it float over his head

edgecutter

Andrews shouldn't be getting any flak, he is what he is and he will always try. I thought whelan was very poor last night and if we are to play two in the mid then he should be sacrificed for Gibson.

G.K.

I agree over that.

Colonialboy

plasmaguy wrote: »

... most of the people who jump on it don't really understand football or just allow others dicate what they think themselves. "

He was not at fault for the goals, all of which came from defensive mistakes at setpieces.

now who doesnt understand football...
The goals came from croatia pissing thru our midfield like it wasnt there , the midfield sitting too far back on top of the defense and the midfield having no plan on how to retain the ball and force the croats back..
its an inevitability about it , we got away with it against Russia, but last night our luck ran out and the oppossition scored from all the possession and chances our midfield allows them to create.

I thought Duff was our best player on the night, St Ledger was good too, Andrews was his usually self, coming to get the ball but never doing anything with it, never taking an opponent out of the game and not playing many triangles in the midfiled driving forward.

Im not player bashing, I admire Andrews for working his socks off and giving it all on the pitch, Id just love to see him play with more confidence and attack minded.

Roll on Spain, I hope the lads put the result behind them and go out on Thursday and give a better account of themselvs.

plasmaguy

Ah well you can't please everyone. I thought Andrews was one of our better players last night, tried hard, played a good constructive pass to Keane which forced the defender to come through the back of him and was a stonewall penalty which wasn't given because the ref bottled it for other reasons. Andrews also had a good header near the end. He's usually constructive on the ball and generally he's been one of Ireland's best players in the Trap era and was a big factor in us getting to the tournament.

I don't remember Keane or Doyle having one shot on target last night. McGeady was poor as were a number of others.

Modric is a world class player and whoever we put in midfield would struggle against him, we need to be realistic about that and Ireland has no world class midfielders.

Finally, let's cut the whinning and just enjoy the tournament. We're in a very tough group and it was always going to be hard to do well. We were unlucky last night in some respects but that's football.

niallo27

Trap says McLean didn't play because he shoulders were very heavy.

Tellox

I'm finding it a bit shocking that so many people are pointing fingers at Given and Trap, claiming it's entirely their fault that we got throttled by the better team.

Given is probably the only really good player we have at our disposal at the moment - but as good as he is, he can't one-man us into the finals. This shíteology of the 3rd goal being his fault because it bounced off his head - what, were you expecting him to glance at the football travelling at around 30mph, realise it was hitting the inside of the post, and make a conscious decision to not make a dive for it?

Trap is probably the best manager we'll ever see fronting the Irish Squad - unfortunately, unless he can find a way to allow us to play 22 players on the pitch at any one time, become clairvoyant, and personally birth/raise/train children with an Irish woman, we will not have a team that is capable of beating anyone in our group.

Our current selection of players are of a poor standard overall, and tbh were incredibly lucky to even qualify for the Euro. We've another 2 days of drinking out of it regardless - try to ignore the results, and enjoy yourselves with your family and friends.

noodler

Tellox wrote: »

I'm finding it a bit shocking that so many people are pointing fingers at Given and Trap, claiming it's entirely their fault that we got throttled by the better team.

Given is probably the only really good player we have at our disposal at the moment - but as good as he is, he can't one-man us into the finals. This shíteology of the 3rd goal being his fault because it bounced off his head - what, were you expecting him to glance at the football travelling at around 30mph, realise it was hitting the inside of the post, and make a conscious decision to not make a dive for it?

Trap is probably the best manager we'll ever see fronting the Irish Squad - unfortunately, unless he can find a way to allow us to play 22 players on the pitch at any one time, become clairvoyant, and personally birth/raise/train children with an Irish woman, we will not have a team that is capable of beating anyone in our group.

Our current selection of players are of a poor standard overall, and tbh were incredibly lucky to even qualify for the Euro. We've another 2 days of drinking out of it regardless - try to ignore the results, and enjoy yourselves with your family and friends.

I respect you defending Given but have you forgotten a win in Paris over 90 minutes? A draw with Croatia recently? Two draws and a win over Italy? A draw in Moscow?

I hope the team and management are aiming a little higher than you are.

This tournament aside, I hope Trap (given it will be his 5th year in the job) will be able to blood the odd new player, trust the ones we have a bit more and introduce just a little bit of additional flexibility into the team.

Nothing seismic - just a little bit of progression.

kryogen

Ridiculous decision

Tellox

noodler wrote: »

I respect you defending Given but have you forgotten a win in Paris over 90 minutes? A draw with Croatia recently? Two draws and a win over Italy? A draw in Moscow?

I hope the team and management are aiming a little higher than you are.

This tournament aside, I hope Trap (given it will be his 5th year in the job) will be able to blood the odd new player, trust the ones we have a bit more and introduce just a little bit of additional flexibility into the team.

Nothing seismic - just a little bit of progression.

Against France, a severe underperformance from the home side, while we punched way above our belt - the Irish side have never managed to carry form like that on a consistent basis; mostly because you would need an underperforming opponent to allow us to run the pitch as we did in Paris.

We always perform well against Italy, likely because Trap would know them inside out. I'm expecting us to take home a consolation point in that match.

And I think it's fair to say that the team and management are not aiming any higher than I am, considering the efforts they put in towards having gang rape aired live on RTE yesterday.

noodler

Tellox wrote: »

Against France, a severe underperformance from the home side, while we punched way above our belt - the Irish side have never managed to carry form like that on a consistent basis; mostly because you would need an underperforming opponent to allow us to run the pitch as we did in Paris.

We always perform well against Italy, likely because Trap would know them inside out. I'm expecting us to take home a consolation point in that match.

And I think it's fair to say that the team and management are not aiming any higher than I am, considering the efforts they put in towards having gang rape aired live on RTE yesterday.

Sometimes I think the team would get less stick if they didn't bother qualifying for anything.

They did try yesterday. They always try.

briany

Tellox wrote: »

Against France, a severe underperformance from the home side, while we punched way above our belt - the Irish side have never managed to carry form like that on a consistent basis; mostly because you would need an underperforming opponent to allow us to run the pitch as we did in Paris.

We always perform well against Italy, likely because Trap would know them inside out. I'm expecting us to take home a consolation point in that match.

And I think it's fair to say that the team and management are not aiming any higher than I am, considering the efforts they put in towards having gang rape aired live on RTE yesterday.

Sounds like Fair City has gone in a gritty new direction.

No, I think the gang rape thing is a bit strong. It's as simple as this, Ireland are a team with no plan B and when the chips were down yesterday, they had no effective answer but play as they were playing and hope. That play was no different to how they played against Slovakia, Russia and Bulgaria, say, over the last two q'fying campaigns but the difference is that that Croatia had the class and the presence of mind to expose the weaknesses within, and they got a bit of luck but sometimes fortune favours you, sometimes it does not. Also, Ireland looked like a team over excited and awed by the occasion and were making unusually bad errors at the back, even coming from the likes of Dunne who is thought of as one of the most composed and dependable players on that team. Despite all that, 3-1 is not some kind of mauling but it is a terribly disappointing result from what many seen as Ireland's most winnable game and an indictment of the Trapattoni project.

If this ends up being as bad as we all fear, we'll pay a big cost for qualification and participation at the Euros because it'll possibly turn a whole generation of youngsters and bandwagoners off the Irish team as well as deaden the morale of the squad, hasten retirements and create a rift between the remaining players/incoming players and the manager as their belief in his tactics diminishes and their desire to carry them out.

plasmaguy

briany wrote: »

because it'll possibly turn a whole generation of bandwagoners off the Irish team

And this is supposed to be a bad thing??

briany

plasmaguy wrote: »

And this is supposed to be a bad thing??

Well yes, because they will generate some goodwill and revenue - if things are going well.... A few will turn into diehard fans as well though and that's no bad thing.

WallyGUFC

helimachoptor wrote: »

Beating Spain would be the best footballing result Ireland will ever have achieved by a big margin.
however.. we'd then go and get spanked by Italy

Beating Spain would probably be the biggest shock in the history of the international game, especially given current circumstances. Our only hope is for "headbanger" Ramos to get sent off early

ColeTrain

WallyGUFC wrote: »

Beating Spain would probably be the biggest shock in the history of the international game, especially given current circumstances. Our only hope is for "headbanger" Ramos to get sent off early

PP have us at 10/1. It would surprise most but hardly that big of a shock!

ColeTrain

Tellox wrote: »

Our current selection of players are of a poor standard overall, and tbh were incredibly lucky to even qualify for the Euro. We've another 2 days of drinking out of it regardless - try to ignore the results, and enjoy yourselves with your family and friends.

Ignore the results? That's a cop out.

There are some great teams at this tournament but everyone of them is beatable on their day. See Denmark beating Holland.

We're paying a manager 1.5 million a year and have a squad that is based around the so called best league in the world. We should be looking to give every team a game.

briany

I'd be totally speechless if Ireland beat Spain but it's not going to happen. We'll something magical on par with a Disney underdog sports film. We need to have the team coming off the bus in Gdansk in a conga line, Robbie leading, singing,

"'We're at the Euros now, you know they can't believe, Ireland, we have a football team!"

Tellox

ColeTrain wrote: »

Ignore the results? That's a cop out.

There are some great teams at this tournament but everyone of them is beatable on their day. See Denmark beating Holland.

We're paying a manager 1.5 million a year and have a squad that is based around the so called best league in the world. We should be looking to give every team a game.

If I paid attention to the results, I'd wind up in an early grave from the drinking I'd do.

Denmark were a complete underdog, and they performed far better than Ireland did in their first match. Holland underperformed, and as such, Denmark went through. Ireland put in their standard performance, and were completely outclassed by a better team - and we're up against an even better team on Wednesday.

Trap on a nice pay package still doesn't mean he can magic good players into existence for our remaining matches.

I'm all for supporting the team, but Christ, people are forgetting how lucky we are to even have gotton this far. We got through with a stroke of luck on many occasions, and it was only a matter of time before we - excuse the pun, dropped the ball. The team are a total shadow of their former glory, and have no real driving force on the pitch.

Like many others, for me, Euro 2012 is about having a get together with mates, and having a few drinks while watching some good football. It's a bit depressing that we have to watch the good football putting Ireland down, but either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I feel a bit bad for the guys who travelled over for the Croatia match though, that must've been painful from the stands.

ColeTrain

Tellox wrote: »

If I paid attention to the results, I'd wind up in an early grave from the drinking I'd do.

Denmark were a complete underdog, and they performed far better than Ireland did in their first match. Holland underperformed, and as such, Denmark went through. Ireland put in their standard performance, and were completely outclassed by a better team - and we're up against an even better team on Wednesday.

Trap on a nice pay package still doesn't mean he can magic good players into existence for our remaining matches.

I'm all for supporting the team, but Christ, people are forgetting how lucky we are to even have gotton this far. We got through with a stroke of luck on many occasions, and it was only a matter of time before we - excuse the pun, dropped the ball. The team are a total shadow of their former glory, and have no real driving force on the pitch.

Like many others, for me, Euro 2012 is about having a get together with mates, and having a few drinks while watching some good football. It's a bit depressing that we have to watch the good football putting Ireland down, but either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I feel a bit bad for the guys who travelled over for the Croatia match though, that must've been painful from the stands.

I agree with most of that. It's fustrating watching it play out like that. There was a very anti-climatic feeling after the game on Sunday. Maybe we've just been spoilt punching above our weight at major tournaments but I still think we could have given better though and let ourselves down to an extent.

I expect the team to give us a good committed performance against Spain. That coupled with some Moscow style luck and you never know. You'd still have to expect a comfortable Spanish win.

stiffler123

Spain lost to Switzerland in the group stages of the World Cup. It's a big ask, but you never know. Early goal from a set piece and then defend like Spartans for the rest of the game. Could happen.

Colonialboy

The similarity to the first 2 goals we shifted against Croatia and the goal France scored against England are glaring, and speak volumes about the style of the English game in which our players play.

Given unsighted for the first goal against Croatia, too many midfielders sitting on top of the defense, a headed goal by a player almost on his knees with no Irish player putting him under pressure.

The second goal V Croatia , again player allowed room to make a shot not under pressure and it rebounded off Andrews a midfielder sitting too deep and then pinged to Ward etc... Andrews should have been further out putting the player taking the shot under pressure before he set himself up.

France goal V England, France played it around 25 yards from goal and the English midfield sitting inside the 18 yard box and then Nasri sets himself for a shot and a last despairing lunge from Gerrard but again Hart was unsighted and saw the ball late.

Even the 3rd goal with O'Shea not closing the Croatian down and allowing him to pick out the cross. I think the continentals get tighter faster and close you down quicker by closing down in pairs and not just letting one player try to close down.

Its a mad game, thats why I love it, roll on Spain good luck to the Irish squad.

TwoShedsJackson

briany wrote: »

"They can go through, they can go through" - Said by Bilic (straight faced) in the wake of his side's defeat of Ireland about Ireland's prospects. Some credentials he's got there, not only manager of Croatia but also the master of deadpan comedy

Well he's hardly going to say 'no, they're fu<ked!'.

noodler

TwoShedsJackson wrote: »

Well he's hardly going to say 'no, they're fu<ked!'.

Also, he would rather we actually put in performances against Spain and Italy!