Junkies

Chucky the tree

SHOVELLER wrote: »

1. Remove clinics from the city centre. I consider myself pretty well travelled but have never seen such a junkie infestation in any other capital city.

2. Revoke all social welfare rights from junkies. It is reprehensible that the taxpayer are literally paying junkies to consume drugs. This would also include revoking their "free" travel passes.

I'll avoid the 3rd suggestion because that is beyond retarded. When you remove all their social welfare how will they pay for their drugs? They won't be doing it by getting jobs.

Odysseus

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

I hope that your "lectures" are more coherent

So my students tell me, but what is so incoherent that you have a difficultly with?

mikemac1

Create a Hamsterdam down by the port

Shift them down there

SHOVELLER

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'll avoid the 3rd suggestion because that is beyond retarded. When you remove all their social welfare how will they pay for their drugs? They won't be doing it by getting jobs.

How is it retarded? It is a serious suggestion. It is criminal that the next generation are already doomed as their kids will be so the cycle will never end.

They will pay for their drugs by robbing and begging which they are already doing.

Ray Palmer

plein de force wrote: »

i wonder who had the bright idea to locate the methadone clinics right slap bang in the middle of the city centre? should have located them in the middle of nowhere and they all seem to have their travel passes so it's not like the poor things will be inconvenienced as they have fcuk all else to do but mug and hassle decent people and fight with each other

A lot of methadone is given out in regular chemists. Every chemist that has a private room has for that very reason. It actually worth noting when looking for a place to live.
City centre clinics are bigger to deal with local population. These people are from the inner city or live there now.
Better to have them there than have public transport have to bring them around.
Not all junkies are as obvious as people think either

RaRaRasputin

Odysseus wrote: »

So my students tell me, but what is so incoherent that you have a difficultly with?

Well, look at the quoted fragment and think about it for a start.
I actually find it a bit confusing to think that a specialist in this area would refer to singled out individuals in that scene as "scum" and try to stand out as objective and reasonable in other posts.

Chucky the tree

SHOVELLER wrote: »

How is it retarded? It is a serious suggestion. It is criminal that the next generation are already doomed as their kids will be so the cycle will never end.

They will pay for their drugs by robbing and begging which they are already doing.

It's a painfully dumb suggestion. The next generation are only doomed if they are allowed be brought up like that are no effort is made to help out their parents. The robbing and begging will only increase even more. Something I'm sure everyone will be delighted with.

Odysseus

SHOVELLER wrote: »

1. Remove clinics from the city centre. I consider myself pretty well travelled but have never seen such a junkie infestation in any other capital city.

2. Revoke all social welfare rights from junkies. It is reprehensible that the taxpayer are literally paying junkies to consume drugs. This would also include revoking their "free" travel passes.

3. Compulsory sterilisation.

Unfortunately only the first option has been even discussed politically. The others are political suicide so will never happen.

If I was wealthy I would pay junkies to be sterilised like that american company mentioned.

So situate the clinics miles away from a patient, then remove their access to free travel that only some get not all, and if they are not working remove the way they would pay to travel. God why did we never think of that before, I will pass that on to my clinical director first thing in the morning. I'm sure he will be kicking himself that he never though of this.

God knows how they will pay for their treatment though, but I'm sure that can be worked out.

SHOVELLER

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It's a painfully dumb suggestion. The next generation are only doomed if they are allowed be brought up like that are no effort is made to help out their parents. The robbing and begging will only increase even more. Something I'm sure everyone will be delighted with.

You will find that your points would have more credence if you debated the subject and not throw insults around.

What is painfully dumb is the reluctance to see what is happening in our capital city every day. The next generation are doomed simply because nothing is being done.

Sterilisation is a radical option and will by no means solve the problem but we are doing everyone a disservice by simply refusing to discuss all options.

SHOVELLER

Odysseus wrote: »

So situate the clinics miles away from a patient, then remove their access to free travel that only some get not all, and if they are not working remove the way they would pay to travel. God why did we never think of that before, I will pass that on to my clinical director first thing in the morning. I'm sure he will be kicking himself that he never though of this.

God knows how they will pay for their treatment though, but I'm sure that can be worked out.

Situate the clinics away from the city centre where junkies are openly hassling tourists and natives.

As a moderator you should know better than smart ass replies.

Odysseus

RaRaRasputin wrote: »

Well, look at the quoted fragment and think about it for a start.
I actually find it a bit confusing to think that a specialist in this area would refer to singled out individuals in that scene as "scum" and try to stand out as objective and reasonable in other posts.

I speak of those individuals in post #199 and also state that this cannot be projected on to all addicts, but you did not quote that post. All addicts are individuals some are good, some are bad, some are nice some are not.

However, I am dealing with that particular situation without calling for their human rights to be taken off then. It is clear enough to me. I would have to recheck that post but around that area of this thread I point out that some people will be a certain way whether they are addicts or not, and I would like to see them access better treatment whatever my personal not professional feeling about those specific individuals are.

dr.bollocko

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Situate the clinics away from the city centre where junkies are openly hassling tourists and natives.

As a moderator you should know better than smart ass replies.

He is subject to the same rules here as anyone else. Please leave out the personal commentary.

Odysseus

SHOVELLER wrote: »

You will find that your points would have more credence if you debated the subject and not throw insults around.

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Situate the clinics away from the city centre where junkies are openly hassling tourists and natives.

As a moderator you should know better than smart ass replies.

Does your first point not have any reference to your second. Seriously, you also state that they should lose all welfare, so how will they get there, and you don't want free treatment, so how do they pay for it.

By the way I am just a poster here.

Gummy Panda

SHOVELLER wrote: »

Odysseus wrote: »

So situate the clinics miles away from a patient, then remove their access to free travel that only some get not all, and if they are not working remove the way they would pay to travel. God why did we never think of that before, I will pass that on to my clinical director first thing in the morning. I'm sure he will be kicking himself that he never though of this.

God knows how they will pay for their treatment though, but I'm sure that can be worked out.

Situate the clinics away from the city centre where junkies are openly hassling tourists and natives.

As a moderator you should know better than smart ass replies.

And watch everywhere protest about the clinics being in their back yard. The reason they're in the city centre is due to lack of a community that can amount a protest or object planning permission.

Odysseus

There are a lot of clinics outside of the city, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Lucan etc

Gummy Panda

Odysseus wrote: »

There are a lot of clinics outside of the city, Ballyfermot, Tallaght, Lucan etc

That's true but aren't they sold to the community as a means to repair it. I don't think areas would be happy if people are being shipped in from other areas.

Odysseus

Gummy Panda wrote: »

That's true but aren't they sold to the community as a means to repair it. I don't think areas would be happy if people are being shipped in from other areas.

Correct, but all the clinics in town with the exception of the Trinity Court, have local catchment areas. However, we are about to loose some of the smaller community clinics.

jay-me

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I actually do care about junkies bothering tourists - they come here to spend money, which we need as the place is in a state of chasis. We need them telling their friends back home about how pleasant the place is (as they might decide to follow suit and come see for themselves, spending more money here in the process), not about how much of a drug problem we have here.

Hold on a second in fairness every country I have visited abroad has had it's own share of citizens abusing drugs and alcohol and living homeless.. This hasn't in anyway tarnished my view of the places I have visited and I would return to most of them despite their drug / drink problems.. America is overrun with drugs and poverty, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to visit it again.. I think tourists realise that there are unfortunate people in every country and Ireland isn't any different.. What they do get to enjoy is relative safety (a lot safer than most other places) and amazing scenery and the renowned craic.

Foxhound38

jay-me wrote: »

Hold on a second in fairness every country I have visited abroad has had it's own share of citizens abusing drugs and alcohol and living homeless.. This hasn't in anyway tarnished my view of the places I have visited and I would return to most of them despite their drug / drink problems.. America is overrun with drugs and poverty, doesn't mean I wouldn't like to visit it again.. I think tourists realise that there are unfortunate people in every country and Ireland isn't any different.. What they do get to enjoy is relative safety (a lot safer than most other places) and amazing scenery and the renowned craic.

I really do think the problem is far more "in your face" to Dublin tourists though. When was the last time you where able to negotiate around town for any reasonable length of time without getting hassled by a junkie or seeing someone else get hassled? I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt it would be the majority of times - certaintly isn't for me!

jay-me

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I really do think the problem is far more "in your face" to Dublin tourists though. When was the last time you where able to negotiate around town for any reasonable length of time without getting hassled by a junkie or seeing someone else get hassled? I'm sure it's possible, but I doubt it would be the majority of times - certaintly isn't for me!

Fair point but I have found the same thing in many of the European cities I have visited and China is overrun with beggars, New York is the same also. My point is that despite this I wouldn't allow these things be the focus of my holidays and i wouldn't say tourists visiting here would either.

Esoteric_

Should just round them all up, get an uninhabited island, plonk them all on it for three days, with minimal food and water, and a random weapon each. All have to kill each other off within 3 days, Battle Royale style. The winner gets a bag of heroin. Unbeknownst to him/her, though, the heroin is laced with arsenic.

Everybody wins!

aaronjumper

LyndaMcL wrote: »

Should just round them all up, get an uninhabited island, plonk them all on it for three days, with minimal food and water, and a random weapon each. All have to kill each other off within 3 days, Battle Royale style. The winner gets a bag of heroin. Unbeknownst to him/her, though, the heroin is laced with arsenic.

Everybody wins!

You have put a lot of thought into this :eek:

Esoteric_

aaronjumper wrote: »

You have put a lot of thought into this :eek:

I actually had this exact discussion the other day with my friend. :pac:

Ray Palmer

Clitlady wrote: »

People here seem to forget that junkies are real people with real souls too you know?

nobody has a soul,religious nonsense

Gummy Panda

Ray Palmer wrote: »

nobody has a soul,religious nonsense

I do.

I'm black and I'm proud.

Smidge

Gummy Panda wrote: »

I do.

I'm black and I'm proud.

Yeah, but are you a northsider?

Gummy Panda

mishkalucy wrote: »

Yeah, but are you a northsider?

Yes I am.

/brings horse into lift

mattjack

danielle_door wrote: »

Picture the scene:

sitting in Burger King 6pm, waiting for someone to arrive, two junk bags (1 male, 1 female) sit down at a table in the middle of the eating area.

The female proceedes to struggle to remove her Drug paraphernalia from inside herself and hand it to her friend.

He then goes to the toilets to shoot up or whatever.

Really nice tuesday evening in the capitol city.

D

You saw an addict remove from inside herself swabs,citric,water,barrels,spikes,filters, possibly a spoon,filters,maybe tourniquet and heroin from herself ?

nokia69

whistlingtitan wrote: »

As dealers were brought up I like the Chinese solution to this straight up shoot them in the head …period !!!!bet it would help but again bloody pc brigade
I know some here will be all "shocked" by that but these people are dealing death and destruction and the punishment should fit the crime

As for the users less of the namby pamby people DECIDE to take drugs in the first place we have plenty of small islands of the west couast
Caught using drugs packed off to one no choice no pc crap hard core rehab go back on the drugs once released straight 5 year term in a lock down third time your use to civilised society is no longer needed

By the time the Communist Party came to power in 1949, there were approximately 20 million opium addicts in China. Chairman Mao, no student of Mill, decided that the only answer to the problem was ruthlessness. As Dalrymple writes, Mao gave the Chinese opium addicts “a strong motive to give up and the rest of the population a strong motive not to start. He shot the dealers out of hand, and any such addicts who did not give up their habit. The carrot for addicts was life and the stick was death. It would not be going too far to say that, within a mere three years, Mao produced more cures than all the drug clinics in the world before or since, or indeed to come. He was the greatest drug worker in history.

drdeadlift

nokia69 wrote: »

By the time the Communist Party came to power in 1949, there were approximately 20 million opium addicts in China. Chairman Mao, no student of Mill, decided that the only answer to the problem was ruthlessness. As Dalrymple writes, Mao gave the Chinese opium addicts “a strong motive to give up and the rest of the population a strong motive not to start. He shot the dealers out of hand, and any such addicts who did not give up their habit. The carrot for addicts was life and the stick was death. It would not be going too far to say that, within a mere three years, Mao produced more cures than all the drug clinics in the world before or since, or indeed to come. He was the greatest drug worker in history.

Interesting.So all we need now is someone with a pair of balls in government.

mattjack

nokia69 wrote: »

By the time the Communist Party came to power in 1949, there were approximately 20 million opium addicts in China. Chairman Mao, no student of Mill, decided that the only answer to the problem was ruthlessness. As Dalrymple writes, Mao gave the Chinese opium addicts “a strong motive to give up and the rest of the population a strong motive not to start. He shot the dealers out of hand, and any such addicts who did not give up their habit. The carrot for addicts was life and the stick was death. It would not be going too far to say that, within a mere three years, Mao produced more cures than all the drug clinics in the world before or since, or indeed to come. He was the greatest drug worker in history.

That's a nice cut and paste.

drdeadlift

mattjack wrote: »

That's a nice cut and paste.

Still interesting

mattjack

drdeadlift wrote: »

Still interesting

'Tis interesting. From New Something ? or a technical magazine

drdeadlift

mattjack wrote: »

'Tis interesting. From New Something ? or a technical magazine

thats it

flanno_7hi

To say I know **** all about heroin would an insult to fcuk all.
But this thread reminds me of a day a few years ago i headed up to Dublin from UL for an interview. Had a few hours to burn before heading out to some industrial estate somewhere so had a stroll around town.
Was in the Ilac centre and went in to McDs to take a pre-interview post-trainjourney dump. Pulling some bogroll out of the dispenser a feckin needle falls out. Missed my leg by a couple of inches. Scared the fookin bajaysus out of me. I said to the manager there who barely batted an eyelid.

I defo think it has gotten worse around dublin centre though. The luas seems to be riddled with the cnuts these days.

mattjack

drdeadlift wrote: »

thats it

I'll be honest , I read it last year.

mattjack

flanno_7hi wrote: »

To say I know **** all about heroin would an insult to fcuk all.
But this thread reminds me of a day a few years ago i headed up to Dublin from UL for an interview. Had a few hours to burn before heading out to some industrial estate somewhere so had a stroll around town.
Was in the Ilac centre and went in to McDs to take a pre-interview post-trainjourney dump. Pulling some bogroll out of the dispenser a feckin needle falls out. Missed my leg by a couple of inches. Scared the fookin bajaysus out of me. I said to the manager there who barely batted an eyelid.

I defo think it has gotten worse around dublin centre though. The luas seems to be riddled with the cnuts these days.

I'd say that cleared your bowels..

flanno_7hi

jay-me wrote: »

Fair point but I have found the same thing in many of the European cities I have visited and China is overrun with beggars, New York is the same also. My point is that despite this I wouldn't allow these things be the focus of my holidays and i wouldn't say tourists visiting here would either.

Which part of NYC is that? As far as I've noticed the Tourist areas seem to have been cleaned up no end. Barely see a beggar when I've there except in the park.

drdeadlift

mattjack wrote: »

I'll be honest , I read it last year.

still interesting

flanno_7hi

mattjack wrote: »

I'd say that cleared your bowels..

Well It did scare the **** out of me. I then proceeded to leave my laptop in the taxi and realise while in the interview. I blame the junkie (and not my ****ty interview technique for not getting the job haha) It totally freaked me out and I was a bit on edge all day. It doesnt help that needles freak me out. I can't watch people inject themselves even on tele and in movies.

Odysseus

flanno_7hi wrote: »

Well It did scare the **** out of me. I then proceeded to leave my laptop in the taxi and realise while in the interview. I blame the junkie (and not my ****ty interview technique for not getting the job haha) It totally freaked me out and I was a bit on edge all day. It doesnt help that needles freak me out. I can't watch people inject themselves even on tele and in movies.

TBH it does not seem that traumatic, was is just a needle it? Did it have a cover around it? Did it look used? By that I mean could you see blood on it. At the end of the day it had the strong effect on you, and of course it should have been there. I don't mean to negate the effect the experience had on you, or condone the person responsible for it. Maybe I'm just more used to such exposure, but it does gel for me.

As I said I'm not trying to belittle your experience, just trying to understand your reaction. It did not touch you, you are responsible enough to not touch it and report it. Thankfully it was you and not a child who discovered it.

flanno_7hi

Odysseus wrote: »

TBH it does not seem that traumatic, was is just a needle it? Did it have a cover around it? Did it look used? By that I mean could you see blood on it. At the end of the day it had the strong effect on you, and of course it should have been there. I don't mean to negate the effect the experience had on you, or condone the person responsible for it. Maybe I'm just more used to such exposure, but it does gel for me.

As I said I'm not trying to belittle your experience, just trying to understand your reaction. It did not touch you, you are responsible enough to not touch it and report it. Thankfully it was you and not a child who discovered it.

No you are misunderstanding me. I've always been afraid of needles, not just because of this. This didn't have an effect on me really just made me feel a bit off thinking about it on the day. I've seen much worse things in my life that would give me nightmares than seeing a needle. Just thought it was a ****ty thing to happen.

Foxhound38

Does it not say something about the state of modern Ireland that we should be used to such things? Fair enough, I'm glad a child didn't come across the needle, but also what if it was a tourist? What impression would that leave of our country? Again, going back to what I said earlier in the thread, to have tourists going home and reporting "I had a lovely holiday, but it really struck me that Ireland has such a massive heroin problem" isn't good enough...

Odysseus

I just remembered reading an article in a local newspaper in Jersey CI not USA about Dublin having a significant heroin problem. I can't remember what year but I worked there between 89 and 94. So it should not really be new news to people outside of Ireland. Fcuk I feel old after remembering that.

Foxhound38

Odysseus wrote: »

I just remembered reading an article in a local newspaper in Jersey CI not USA about Dublin having a significant heroin problem. I can't remember what year but I worked there between 89 and 94. So it should not really be new news to people outside of Ireland. Fcuk I feel old after remembering that.

And it would seem we haven't made too much progress in the intervening period...

Nodin

Early 80's was the first big wave of heroin here, afaik.

kryogen

Nightly death squads is not the worst idea in the world to be honest.

Eventually people will come around to my way of thinking

flanno_7hi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-UQADb6y5U


Hamsterdam. Keep them out out of the way.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Nodin wrote: »

Early 80's was the first big wave of heroin here, afaik.

I often wonder at that.

I grew up in Ballymun during the period (I was an 80's teen). A lot of my mates died from heroin OD's, and local chemists were easily broken into then too ~ with easy access then to the dangerous drugs cabinet (all seem's so innocent now).

Looking back I feel most of my mates who died did so through ignorance of drug use than anything else.

Odysseus I love reading your posts on this subject, you sometimes remind me of a mate who was an addict and ended up councilling out in Coolmine.

Odysseus

Foxhound38 wrote: »

And it would seem we haven't made too much progress in the intervening period...

Well lets see, getting people into treatment younger has reduce the Hep C and HIV rate with drug users. You used to never see old addicts, I know of two collect their pension and had clients in their late 5os. I know plently of ex/recovering addicts would are clean 5, 1o years plus. Lots of these guys left school with no qualifications now have degrees and masters, some earn more than me.

I constantly acknowledge real problems with treatment in Ireland, but we have saved a lot of lives, reduced criminality, improved quality of live etc with a lot of patients. Could we do better yes, but just look at the sub human etc posts here, between that and constant cut backs any improvements to be made in the future will be more difficult to achieve.

Addiction is no longer the political issue that it was; sadly it will take an increase in deaths, criminality, etc for it to become one again. Without that the money made available for treatment becomes less each year.


My point in my last post was noting that this point about visitors to Ireland is not a new one. Anyway, I'm done for tonight off to bed with me in a fe mins.