Junkies

Jimoslimos

Pushtrak wrote: »

You brought up heroin in the smoking thread, and I didn't really want to go in to it as it isn't a topic I am too familiar. Safe in this context still allows for people dying of overdose, doesn't it?

Yes I did, an interesting discussion that was! Overdose is still a risk with any drug, even paracetamol. Injecting carries a level of risk for overdose, which wouldn't be associated with say inhalation - there may well be a case for the development of a heroin e-cig :eek: to treat those who are addicts but don't inject.

Foxhound38

Odysseus wrote: »

Well lets see, getting people into treatment younger has reduce the Hep C and HIV rate with drug users. You used to never see old addicts, I know of two collect their pension and had clients in their late 5os. I know plently of ex/recovering addicts would are clean 5, 1o years plus. Lots of these guys left school with no qualifications now have degrees and masters, some earn more than me.

I constantly acknowledge real problems with treatment in Ireland, but we have saved a lot of lives, reduced criminality, improved quality of live etc with a lot of patients. Could we do better yes, but just look at the sub human etc posts here, between that and constant cut backs any improvements to be made in the future will be more difficult to achieve.

Addiction is no longer the political issue that it was; sadly it will take an increase in deaths, criminality, etc for it to become one again. Without that the money made available for treatment becomes less each year.


My point in my last post was noting that this point about visitors to Ireland is not a new one. Anyway, I'm done for tonight off to bed with me in a fe mins.

And for the record, it does hearten me to hear of some of them turning their lives around. It just seems that so many are unwilling to, and are perfecrtly happy with surviving as a burden on society is all...

I don't think people can really be blamed for being frustrated with this situation

lima

I recently moved back to Dublin after 7 years abroad. I currently live in the north inner city centre in a ground floor apt with a balcony backing out to a large, open laneway with CCTV

BIG MISTAKE

Heroin sub-humans keep getting into my balcony to inject heroin during the day while I'm at work. One sub-human took a massive S*TE on the balcony (apparently it happens during their initial 'rush' after injecting).

They left the needle and a huge SH*TE on my balconly. There are also tons of leftover tinfoil from smoking heroin too.

I keep calling the guards but they can't do anything unless they catch the vermin in the act.

I therefore have to move out to find a more suitable place. Therefore these sub-human underclass have forced me to move dwelling. In my own city.

I have lived in London where people talk about crack, heroin and all sorts of shootings but I have never felt as unsafe as I have in Dublin. It is an absolute disgrace that they are allowed to roam the streets of our capital like this.

Let me assure you that I have been all over the world and Dublin is the place that I have seen the most junkies out of all the places I have been.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS - NEVER MIND ALL THE BANK STUFF GOING ON. TOURISTS ARE LEAVING DUBLIN TELLING THE WORLD IT IS OVERRUN BY HEROIN ADDICTS. DUBLIN'S REPUTATION IS GETTING WORSE.

There's no value in trying to be cool by saying 'a sure I know a gear head, terrible the way it just grips you' etc. Whether they are/were good people etc. is irrelevant - there are heroin addicts buying/selling/injecting Heroin in the city centre of our capital city and something needs to be done about it.

They need to go. I don't care where, but they need to go. They can die for all I care, they need to go.

bogmanfan

As others have said also, Dublin is unique in my experience in the way that junkies tend to be so visible in the city centre. I've lived in Chicago, a city with serious drug problems of its own, but the addicts mainly stuck to their own neighbourhoods, outside of the city centre. They certainly weren't walking down Michigan Avenue or hanging around Navy Pier. Part of the problem with Dublin is that some of the areas with chronic drug problems are located 5 minutes from O'Connell St.

lima wrote: »

I recently moved back to Dublin after 7 years abroad. I currently live in the north inner city centre in a ground floor apt with a balcony backing out to a large, open laneway with CCTV

BIG MISTAKE

Heroin sub-humans keep getting into my balcony to inject heroin during the day while I'm at work. One sub-human took a massive S*TE on the balcony (apparently it happens during their initial 'rush' after injecting).

They left the needle and a huge SH*TE on my balconly. There are also tons of leftover tinfoil from smoking heroin too.

I keep calling the guards but they can't do anything unless they catch the vermin in the act.

I therefore have to move out to find a more suitable place. Therefore these sub-human underclass have forced me to move dwelling. In my own city.

I have lived in London where people talk about crack, heroin and all sorts of shootings but I have never felt as unsafe as I have in Dublin. It is an absolute disgrace that they are allowed to roam the streets of our capital like this.

Let me assure you that I have been all over the world and Dublin is the place that I have seen the most junkies out of all the places I have been.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS - NEVER MIND ALL THE BANK STUFF GOING ON. TOURISTS ARE LEAVING DUBLIN TELLING THE WORLD IT IS OVERRUN BY HEROIN ADDICTS. DUBLIN'S REPUTATION IS GETTING WORSE.

There's no value in trying to be cool by saying 'a sure I know a gear head, terrible the way it just grips you' etc. Whether they are/were good people etc. is irrelevant - there are heroin addicts buying/selling/injecting Heroin in the city centre of our capital city and something needs to be done about it.

They need to go. I don't care where, but they need to go. They can die for all I care, they need to go.

Dionysius2

lima wrote: »

I recently moved back to Dublin after 7 years abroad. I currently live in the north inner city centre in a ground floor apt with a balcony backing out to a large, open laneway with CCTV

BIG MISTAKE

Heroin sub-humans keep getting into my balcony to inject heroin during the day while I'm at work. One sub-human took a massive S*TE on the balcony (apparently it happens during their initial 'rush' after injecting).

They left the needle and a huge SH*TE on my balconly. There are also tons of leftover tinfoil from smoking heroin too.

I keep calling the guards but they can't do anything unless they catch the vermin in the act.

I therefore have to move out to find a more suitable place. Therefore these sub-human underclass have forced me to move dwelling. In my own city.

I have lived in London where people talk about crack, heroin and all sorts of shootings but I have never felt as unsafe as I have in Dublin. It is an absolute disgrace that they are allowed to roam the streets of our capital like this.

Let me assure you that I have been all over the world and Dublin is the place that I have seen the most junkies out of all the places I have been.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS - NEVER MIND ALL THE BANK STUFF GOING ON. TOURISTS ARE LEAVING DUBLIN TELLING THE WORLD IT IS OVERRUN BY HEROIN ADDICTS. DUBLIN'S REPUTATION IS GETTING WORSE.

There's no value in trying to be cool by saying 'a sure I know a gear head, terrible the way it just grips you' etc. Whether they are/were good people etc. is irrelevant - there are heroin addicts buying/selling/injecting Heroin in the city centre of our capital city and something needs to be done about it.

They need to go. I don't care where, but they need to go. They can die for all I care, they need to go.

You speak the plain unvarnished truth but do not expect to find acceptance of it on a wide scale. Lingering somewhere in the Irish subconscious is the idea that people can't really or should not be forced to do anything against their will and so the tolerant attitude to those who resist the norms of society. Our Irish society is being destroyed day by day but nobody least of all our leaders...care.

OldNotWIse

lima wrote: »

I recently moved back to Dublin after 7 years abroad. I currently live in the north inner city centre in a ground floor apt with a balcony backing out to a large, open laneway with CCTV

BIG MISTAKE

Heroin sub-humans keep getting into my balcony to inject heroin during the day while I'm at work. One sub-human took a massive S*TE on the balcony (apparently it happens during their initial 'rush' after injecting).

They left the needle and a huge SH*TE on my balconly. There are also tons of leftover tinfoil from smoking heroin too.

I keep calling the guards but they can't do anything unless they catch the vermin in the act.

I therefore have to move out to find a more suitable place. Therefore these sub-human underclass have forced me to move dwelling. In my own city.

I have lived in London where people talk about crack, heroin and all sorts of shootings but I have never felt as unsafe as I have in Dublin. It is an absolute disgrace that they are allowed to roam the streets of our capital like this.

Let me assure you that I have been all over the world and Dublin is the place that I have seen the most junkies out of all the places I have been.

SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THIS - NEVER MIND ALL THE BANK STUFF GOING ON. TOURISTS ARE LEAVING DUBLIN TELLING THE WORLD IT IS OVERRUN BY HEROIN ADDICTS. DUBLIN'S REPUTATION IS GETTING WORSE.

There's no value in trying to be cool by saying 'a sure I know a gear head, terrible the way it just grips you' etc. Whether they are/were good people etc. is irrelevant - there are heroin addicts buying/selling/injecting Heroin in the city centre of our capital city and something needs to be done about it.

They need to go. I don't care where, but they need to go. They can die for all I care, they need to go.

Thats horrendous, I cant believe all they have put you through. But remember only they have rights. You work and pay your way in society and pay for your apartment etc therefore you do not have anyone to stand up for your rights :mad:

lima

Sorry if my previous post offends anyone with a loved one who is gripped by heroin abuse, my post reflects the emotional suffering a tax paying member of society feels and it's all the addicts own fault for making that one choice to take it in the first place that makes me think of them as sub-human. They only have themselves to blame for losing their place in society.

Dionysius2

lima wrote: »

Sorry if my previous post offends anyone with a loved one who is gripped by heroin abuse, my post reflects the emotional suffering a tax paying member of society feels and it's all the addicts own fault for making that one choice to take it in the first place that makes me think of them as sub-human. They only have themselves to blame for losing their place in society.

Of course, the Jesuits among us think that we should be prepared to destroy ourselves in our efforts to save the unsaveable. There's a great philosophical argument that goes in that direction.

3ndahalfof6

getuponthis wrote: »

The only solution to the problem is to euthanise the long time users who can never be rehabilitated. this may seem a bit extreme but I would gladly welcome a program which involved rounding them up and ridding them from this earth!

Not only are they a nuisance to everyone but they also cost the state ridiculous amounts of money. I propose a referendum to get this national euthanasia project started!

for 1 minute I thought you wanted to ride them

Odysseus

lima wrote: »

Sorry if my previous post offends anyone with a loved one who is gripped by heroin abuse, my post reflects the emotional suffering a tax paying member of society feels and it's all the addicts own fault for making that one choice to take it in the first place that makes me think of them as sub-human. They only have themselves to blame for losing their place in society.

I think it is very understandable if you find yourself in such a position. My mother has terrible trouble with her neighbour, lets just say I have place 0.75 kg of rat posion down in 2 days. However, I do not blame that behaviour on their addiction.

I can't stand over the gid rid of them, sub-human and such statements that are posted here, but I can understand you feelings. However, sick people need treatment but at the same time forced treatment doesn't work and that is where harm reduction comes in. At the end of the day it is a disorder not a choice.

I think you touch on an interesting point, if/when addiction comes knocking on some peoples doors here through a loved one I wonder if there position would change.

Unavailable for Comment

Apparently the reason Dublin City Centre, for example, appears overrun with junkies is because most treatment centres were centralised from the suburbs to allow better access to services in the late 80s. This simplified the process whereby programs that were oversubscribed could refer patients to other programs close by without patient’s travel issues being a consideration. With some few exceptions this policy has continued uninterrupted since then.

Surely now though it would be a simple matter to centralise the current treatment centres to a location away from urban areas? Somewhere like Thornton Hall for instance? There is no real reason that junkies (as distinct from addicts who may be functional in society or at least dealing with their addiction) cannot be based in an area that is away from both residents and tourists. Judging by junkies' obvious lack of concern for their health, appearance etc where they are based must be an exceptionally minor consideration for them.

So for them it seems it is the acquisition of heroin that is a priority not spending time with family or contributing anything meaningful with their lives. Why then are their rights treated so much more highly than those of regular law abiding citizens? The Government’s unwanted attempts to interdict supplies of heroin in order to protect their health is the direct cause of the increased crime levels we’re familiar with as well as the general climate of fear for those of us unfortunate to live or work in close proximity to junkies.

Instead a national treatment centre in Thornton Hall could dispense heroin. Good quality heroin, given intravenously by trained specialists in hygienic surroundings. None of that ersatz methadone knock off. Instead junkies that attend there can stay in barracks stupefied except when woken for “treatment” or food. Like the Hotel California they'd be free to come and go. Except really what would be the point in leaving? These people are willing to beat the crap out of the elderly for a couple of quid. It would take more effort than that to walk for a bus when they know they'll get another fix in a few hours.

Meanwhile the vast, vast majority of citizens can carry on their lives secure in the knowledge that the days of being pawed at by a junkie pretending to hold a syringe while he roots through your pockets for your belongings are a thing of the past.

Grafton st. in Dublin was overrun with junkies when I was in there yesterday. Are there any parts of Dublin city centre that aren't overrun with junkies hassling and intimidating everyone around them?

This is a serious problem. If you can live here and be intimidated by the amount of junkies, imagine if you're 1000 miles away from home with a map out trying to figure out which wrong turn you took to end up in this ghetto.

Yo! MTV SUCKS

are people only realising now that dublin is such a kip.....

Odysseus

There are more clinics outside of the city than within it. IIRC the are only 4 clinics that dispensed methadone within town, Tallaght actually has more than that.

Bell Butter

I've yet to ever see a junkie give up drugs for good, it's onto the methadone course for the next 15 years whilst scoring occasionally every week or two. Smoking massive amounts of weed and downing lots and lots of sleepers and valium.

And they still have the neck to call themselves clean despite all of the above.

Odysseus

Actually for all those who want something done, write to your TD. Make addiction a political issue again, we might get some better services. I am being serious TD don't want to know about it anymore, because people are busy with other issues.

One new cut back makes it a lot easier for a person to use heroin and it not be picked up at the clinic. Samples have been reduced from 2 a week 18 months ago to now 2 a month, this also means that though who are entitle to have take home doses will have to wait longer for them; thereby meaning they have to go to the clinic every day.

Seriously don't just post here, get on to your TD, you won't get any of the unethical ideas here, but something can come of it.

Bell Butter

Odysseus wrote: »

One new cut back makes it a lot easier for a person to use heroin and it not be picked up at the clinic. Samples have been reduced from 2 a week 18 months ago to now 2 a month, this also means that though who are entitle to have take home doses will have to wait longer for them; thereby meaning they have to go to the clinic every day.

Seriously don't just post here, get on to your TD, you won't get any of the unethical ideas here, but something can come of it.

This probably why there appears to be more strung out people all over the place.

Unavailable for Comment

Odysseus wrote: »

There are more clinics outside of the city than within it. IIRC the are only 4 clinics that dispensed methadone within town, Tallaght actually has more than that.

Actually that's not true anymore although it's irrelevant anyway as the number of clinics bears no relation to the number of patients that might be seen there. Some clinics might only see four patients regularly while others treat many hundreds of times that.

The facts, as published by the HSE in October 2010, which are the most up to date figures that are available are as follows:

There were 9285 people participating in methadone treatment programmes nationally. Of this 604 got their treatment in prison. Out of the remaining 8681 patients, 3312 patients were attending for treatment through General Practitioners. The remainder or 5368 were treated in HSE clinics. 13 Clinics in total treat 685 addicts outside of the Greater Dublin Region. That leaves 4683 addicts that are treated within Dublin.

Using the relevant electoral areas and the CSO records for them, Dublin city centre has a population of just under 200000. Although this might seem low the city centre has a significant transient population and the vast majority of people who travel there every day don't reside within its environs. The Dublin region as a whole has a population of just over 1000000 so the city centre houses around 20% of that.

Within that area there are 16 methadone treatment clinics. These clinics treat 1911 addicts or 36% of the nation's total of addicts not attending GPs. However that equates to a total of 41% of Dublin's addicts.

That means 20% of the city's population is faced with 40% of the capital's drug problem. I don't see how that isn't considered a problem unless you don't live or work in the City in which case NIMBY is alive and well.

On the other hand Tallaght has six clinics that see 449 patients on a regular basis which is approximately 9.6% of Dublin's addicts.

I think you may be confused with Wicklow as that does have four clinics and deals with 201 addicts. However as this equates to almost a third of all patients seen outside Dublin it is probably overflow from the capital to a certain extent.

Without being facetious I see little difference between the State prescribing addicts methadone interminably or prescribing them heroin if it means the streets are free of them for everyone else.

St.Spodo

As a bleeding-heart liberal, it is depressing to see the state of O'Connell Street these days. The amount of addicts hanging around the main thoroughfare of the city makes the place look like a dive. Something needs to be done about it. I don't have the answer, to be honest.

Odysseus

[QUOTE=Unavailable for Comment;79185435

The facts, as published by the HSE in October 2010, which are the most up to date figures that are available are as follows:

The remainder or 5368 were treated in HSE clinics. 13 Clinics in total treat 685 addicts outside of the Greater Dublin Region. That leaves 4683 addicts that are treated within Dublin.

Without being facetious I see little difference between the State prescribing addicts methadone interminably or prescribing them heroin if it means the streets are free of them for everyone else.[/QUOTE]

What area is this Greater Dublin Area comprised of? I’m out of town a few years now, so may I have miscounted clinics. Is it bigger that the city centre?

What difference a diamorphine programme would have on the issues people are reporting here? It's hard to say, depending on the criteria which are usually very severe, most of the addicts people around here are reporting would not qualify. Diamorphine can't even be prescribed here at the moment, and we would be very conservative if it ever happens over here.

The is a good chance I would be retired before we see it here and I have 20 years service left, in theory in anyway!

whistlingtitan

Are you telling me 600 people in jail are getting drugs off my back(tax) that's an ffing disgrace why are they getting it at all locked up and getting free drugs for gods sake

Tulipout

Bell Butter wrote: »

I've yet to ever see a junkie give up drugs for good, it's onto the methadone course for the next 15 years whilst scoring occasionally every week or two. Smoking massive amounts of weed and downing lots and lots of sleepers and valium.

And they still have the neck to call themselves clean despite all of the above.

Maybe you don't see enough cases.
I be pretty sure that there's plenty of exemptions to your theory.

IrishEyes19

sandmanporto wrote: »

wilmer mclean wrote: »

How can one place in Ireland be more or less Irish then another. How is being a junkie not Irish? How is being a junkie defined by any nationality?

Let me put it this way :
I am from Wexford and Dub have always called me a culchie! They look down on native Wexfordians and have invaded North Wexford! Dubs and Liverpoolians have something in common: THE ACCENT! DUBS AND OUTSIDE THE PALE HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON : THEY ARE ON THE SAME ISLAND!
Dubs think they are more Irish than the rest of the island because they are the capital but they are not more Irish!
Americans come to Ireland thinking Dublin is the most Irish part and all they see is the sad displays Dublin has to offer while on some sad tour organised by American tour companies.
If you want the real Ireland go to all 4 provinces! You can get a real taste then.. Dublin is not Ireland, it's just the administrative capital!

Jesus christ. stay on topic. this is a discussion on drug use, not the joe duffy show!!

Odysseus

whistlingtitan wrote: »

Are you telling me 600 people in jail are getting drugs off my back(tax) that's an ffing disgrace why are they getting it at all locked up and getting free drugs for gods sake

Actually it is called progress, not all of the jails sadly. Two of my mates work in Mountjoy giving it out; Wheatfield also has treatment. If you are on methadone when you enter prison your treatment is continued. What do you want people denied medical treatment whilst they are locked up too?

Or are you one of those people who think Mountjoy is a holiday camp, without ever seeing the inside of it; it really is a kip, prisons don't bother me but I really hate going in there. It needs to be knocked down ASAP. Before it is said I have not problem with people getting locked up; most of my clients I would see in either prison; have committed a crime that required them too be jailed.

Bell Butter

Tulipout wrote: »

Maybe you don't see enough cases.
I be pretty sure that there's plenty of exemptions to your theory.

I doubt it.

mattjack

Bell Butter wrote: »

I doubt it.

People do succeed and get away from heroin addiction leaving methadone behind as well.

OldNotWIse

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

Jesus christ. stay on topic. this is a discussion on drug use, not the joe duffy show!!

Lol I cant believe this post (the one you replied to) - strangely I cannot find it now... :rolleyes: Talk about a rant

MysticalRain

Odysseus wrote: »

Actually for all those who want something done, write to your TD. Make addiction a political issue again, we might get some better services. I am being serious TD don't want to know about it anymore, because people are busy with other issues.

One new cut back makes it a lot easier for a person to use heroin and it not be picked up at the clinic. Samples have been reduced from 2 a week 18 months ago to now 2 a month, this also means that though who are entitle to have take home doses will have to wait longer for them; thereby meaning they have to go to the clinic every day.

Seriously don't just post here, get on to your TD, you won't get any of the unethical ideas here, but something can come of it.

I think that's a good idea in a general sense. But the city centre business community have been complaining to their TDs about the junkie scourge for years now. The only way I can see the problem ever being delt with is if there is some kind of major embarrassing incident that creates enough of a **** storm that they will finally be forced to deal with the issue. Like a murder of an American tourist in broad daylight on O'connell street or something similar.

Bell Butter

mattjack wrote: »

People do succeed and get away from heroin addiction leaving methadone behind as well.

I bet it's as low as 1 or 2% which means most don't. I know plenty from school days and they're horrid scummy people that have brought children into the situation. Disgusting stuff.

Welfare distributed as cash needs to be removed from these people and the a welfare card needs to be brought out that can buy food only.

Every fúcking week my Missus gets a call from her sister looking for money to feed their child because they've scored all the welfare money.

She had the neck to say that we should be giving them money every week or the child would starve. He uses all his welfare for gear and then she's on the phone looking for money.

whistlingtitan

Odysseus wrote: »

whistlingtitan wrote: »

Are you telling me 600 people in jail are getting drugs off my back(tax) that's an ffing disgrace why are they getting it at all locked up and getting free drugs for gods sake

Actually it is called progress, not all of the jails sadly. Two of my mates work in Mountjoy giving it out; Wheatfield also has treatment. If you are on methadone when you enter prison your treatment is continued. What do you want people denied medical treatment whilst they are locked up too?

Or are you one of those people who think Mountjoy is a holiday camp, without ever seeing the inside of it; it really is a kip, prisons don't bother me but I really hate going in there. It needs to be knocked down ASAP. Before it is said I have not problem with people getting locked up; most of my clients I would see in either prison; have committed a crime that required them too be jailed.

Back up a second and loose the tone lively first I think prison is far to easy and were did I say medical treatment???? Drugs are not medical treatment there drugs full stop these people are in jail for breaking the law
And when you knock them where are you putting all the holiday makers????
Yet another do gooder save the world
Oh reminds me of a song ……

mattjack

Bell Butter wrote: »

I bet it's as low as 1 or 2% which means most don't. I know plenty from school days and they're horrid scummy people that have brought children into the situation. Disgusting stuff.

Welfare distributed as cash needs to be removed from these people and the a welfare card needs to be brought out that can buy food only.

Every fúcking week my Missus gets a call from her sister looking for money to feed their child because they've scored all the welfare money.

She had the neck to say that we should be giving them money every week or the child would starve. He uses all his welfare for gear and then she's on the phone looking for money.

I think its around 10 to 15 % , some addicts have to go through slips a few times before become drug free.

I know quite a few completely clean.

There's a theory going around that when addicts reach their late thirties/early forties they often just stop by cutting down themselves with no treatment.

In and around 3/4 who try heroin never become addicted.

An interesting example is Vietnam era soldiers returning to the US often gave up their heroin use on arriving home.

Very sorry about your family/sis in law.

Bell Butter

mattjack wrote: »

I think its around 10 to 15 % , some addicts have to go through slips a few times before become drug free.



Very sorry about your family/sis in law.

It's going on years so I'm used to it, they get rent allowance which they score with as well, and then they're phoning up looking for us to travel to Dublin so they can move again. This happens about every 6 to 9 months. They shouldn't have been allowed to have children. This is why I'm all for the sterilization bit.

It's evil I know, but having kids around drugs and people coming in and out of your house while you score and lie there in a heap is detrimental to a childs upbringing. I know the childs future is fúcked tbh.

Odysseus

whistlingtitan wrote: »

Back up a second and loose the tone lively first I think prison is far to easy and were did I say medical treatment???? Drugs are not medical treatment there drugs full stop these people are in jail for breaking the law
And when you knock them where are you putting all the holiday makers????
Yet another do gooder save the world
Oh reminds me of a song ……

I will decide on how I write my post thanks, the was no offense maean. I supply psychological treatment to addicts and who writes their script is supplying medical treatment. That is the reality, no I think it is this, treatment is treatment provided by a profession. Just because you do not think it is medical treatment does not make it so.

Have you seen inside Mountjoy, lots of people who are not criminals do, I did not argue that they did not break the law. I am interested to know how you have make up you opinion of jail being to easy. As I said most of the people I see there have broken the law, that is why they are there.

Far from a do do gooder, if I write a report for the courts to help them decide on what way they will deal with a case, if the person is not engaging with treatment it says so, just because I believe in ethics and human rights, does not mean I don't think people should be jailed, but at least I know what the prisons are like.

I think most of the officers working in Mountjoy are glad of the fact that treatment was introduced a good few years back.

Odysseus

Bell Butter wrote: »

I doubt it.

I see people every week who have.

Odysseus

Bell Butter wrote: »

It's going on years so I'm used to it, they get rent allowance which they score with as well, and then they're phoning up looking for us to travel to Dublin so they can move again. This happens about every 6 to 9 months. They shouldn't have been allowed to have children. This is why I'm all for the sterilization bit.

It's evil I know, but having kids around drugs and people coming in and out of your house while you score and lie there in a heap is detrimental to a childs upbringing. I know the childs future is fúcked tbh.

I am not being funny here, really hound the fcuk out of social services if the child is at risk. That is what they are there for, even though they are massively understaffed, which is why you have to hound them sometimes.

If the child is at risk it can be removed from the situation.

Best username ever

Odysseus wrote: »

I see people every week who have.

There must be very few of them around. Or another poster said, a lot older early 40's.

Odysseus

Best username ever wrote: »

There must be very few of them around. Or another poster said, a lot older early 40's.

You wouldn't know these people, my next client is five years clean, working in a good job, wife and child, just got a morgage.

mattjack

Best username ever wrote: »

There must be very few of them around. Or another poster said, a lot older early 40's.

How would you know a former addict ? treatment does work for some.

Foxhound38

Odysseus wrote: »

I am not being funny here, really hound the fcuk out of social services if the child is at risk. That is what they are there for, even though they are massively understaffed, which is why you have to hound them sometimes.

If the child is at risk it can be removed from the situation.

+1 - if the child is in a bad situation, the oligation is on you to do something about it

Dwellingdweller

mattjack wrote: »

I think its around 10 to 15 % , some addicts have to go through slips a few times before become drug free.

I know quite a few completely clean.

There's a theory going around that when addicts reach their late thirties/early forties they often just stop by cutting down themselves with no treatment.

In and around 3/4 who try heroin never become addicted.

An interesting example is Vietnam era soldiers returning to the US often gave up their heroin use on arriving home.

Very sorry about your family/sis in law.

The key difference in Vietnam is that the prevalence of Heroin being used IV (injecting it) was pretty much 0%. It was usually smoked. Ask any opiate user about heroin and they'll say, it's nothing special mostly, but when injected it's a totally different beast. I've seen many examples of people who have used heroin recreationally, i.e once every 2 weeks on a measured basis, but the key thing about them is they don't inject. It's not uncommon for these people who use responsibly to have a stable family life, good job etc. The needle is the problem in Ireland and abroad with regards to heroin use.

Dwellingdweller

MysticalRain wrote: »

I think that's a good idea in a general sense. But the city centre business community have been complaining to their TDs about the junkie scourge for years now. The only way I can see the problem ever being delt with is if there is some kind of major embarrassing incident that creates enough of a **** storm that they will finally be forced to deal with the issue. Like a murder of an American tourist in broad daylight on O'connell street or something similar.

How would you get rid of junkies? Seriously. It's not like you can just put out a notice: "Would all junkies please congregate outside Starbucks at 8pm on Friday so we can round ye all up and shoot ye." It's a complex problem, and the root of it lies with the supply. Stop the heroin getting into Dublin and you stop the junkie scourge. However that's pretty much impossible. If people want to use drugs, and the drugs are available, it's pretty much fruitless to try and stop them. What we can do is bring in a system of repercussions where, if a junkie goes out in the street begging for money, the consequences are so heavy that they won't do it again. How to do that? I don't know. But it's what has to be done.

Bobby Baccala

I was in town last saturday for the Jay Z and Kanye concert, first thing i saw when i got off the bus on oconnell street was 4 junkies having a lovely old fashioned brawl at the top of north earl street, with cans in their hands of course. And where the fúck were the garda? Nowhere to be seen!! oconnell street is usually littered with garda, not a single one in sight when that pack of scum was making a show of the irish in front of countless tourists.

Oracle

But isn't the junkie "problem" really just a symptom of a dysfunctional and decaying society? That's something we don't want to face up to. The visible junkies show that society isn't working and that makes us feel uncomfortable.

charlemont

And this is what our so called police force is concerned about ...

...http://www.thejournal.ie/increase-in-cannabis-production-a-concern-garda-commissioner-124168-Apr2011/

THE GARDA COMMISSIONER has expressed concern over the increase of cannabis grow houses, with 60 facilities being uncovered in the past ten months.
More than €6 million worth of cannabis has been seized by gardaí over the same time period. Garda Commissioner Martin Callinan said that organised crime gangs had switched to the area of cannabis production following the shutting down of head shops because the business offered a high return for little maintenance, RTÉ reports. However, Callinan said there were other reasons behind the increased presence of grow houses in the state.
He added that 40 people were due before the courts.
Gardaí set up Operation Nitrogen ten months ago to tackle the increase in cannabis production in Ireland. Callinan said that investigators were making “significant in-roads” in tackling the criminal gangs involved.

The Heroin dealers must be laughing all the way to the bank. We are obviously all aware of the trouble and hassle Heroin addicts are causing across the country yet there is really nothing being done about, If the Gardaí put the half the effort into seizing Heroin that they do regarding Weed then we would see results.

Heroin addicts are ill because of their addiction, So they will and do commit opportunistic and random crimes which when you think about it are easy for the Gardaí to solve, Shoplifting, Handbag snatches. etc..
Much easier than solving corruption, Robberies etc.

Due North

Unavailable for Comment wrote: »

Apparently the reason Dublin City Centre, for example, appears overrun with junkies is because most treatment centres were centralised from the suburbs to allow better access to services in the late 80s. This simplified the process whereby programs that were oversubscribed could refer patients to other programs close by without patient’s travel issues being a consideration. With some few exceptions this policy has continued uninterrupted since then.

Surely now though it would be a simple matter to centralise the current treatment centres to a location away from urban areas? Somewhere like Thornton Hall for instance? There is no real reason that junkies (as distinct from addicts who may be functional in society or at least dealing with their addiction) cannot be based in an area that is away from both residents and tourists. Judging by junkies' obvious lack of concern for their health, appearance etc where they are based must be an exceptionally minor consideration for them.

So for them it seems it is the acquisition of heroin that is a priority not spending time with family or contributing anything meaningful with their lives. Why then are their rights treated so much more highly than those of regular law abiding citizens? The Government’s unwanted attempts to interdict supplies of heroin in order to protect their health is the direct cause of the increased crime levels we’re familiar with as well as the general climate of fear for those of us unfortunate to live or work in close proximity to junkies.

Instead a national treatment centre in Thornton Hall could dispense heroin. Good quality heroin, given intravenously by trained specialists in hygienic surroundings. None of that ersatz methadone knock off. Instead junkies that attend there can stay in barracks stupefied except when woken for “treatment” or food. Like the Hotel California they'd be free to come and go. Except really what would be the point in leaving? These people are willing to beat the crap out of the elderly for a couple of quid. It would take more effort than that to walk for a bus when they know they'll get another fix in a few hours.

Meanwhile the vast, vast majority of citizens can carry on their lives secure in the knowledge that the days of being pawed at by a junkie pretending to hold a syringe while he roots through your pockets for your belongings are a thing of the past.

Something like little Amsterdam in TV show The Wire?:cool:

Dionysius2

The present situation is so bad that the Government should set up a Commission under the Chairmanship of some properly focused pragmatic person from the business world to examine :

(a) what we are doing currently in regard to the national problem of
illegal drug consumption and availability

and

(b) what we should be doing based on a review of what has worked
effectively in other jurisdictions.

The Commission should be time limited and tasked to find not reasons why this is happening but solutions that have escaped us in the past. The methadone protocol and the hopeless yet persistent reliance on law enforcement to beat drug addicts into some sort of compliance together with the constant trumpeting of cannabis grow house detection as some sort of successful control measure in drug law enforcement should be examined rigorously in terms of the manner in which these measures serve the objectives of the legislature.

In particular, the completely outrageous and apparently uninhibited way in which drug seizures are valued (millions here and there.....all grown from seedlings ) thereby ensuring constant perpetuation by those in pursuit of unearned riches cries out for the most critical examination by our state administrators but alas we wait in vain.

The Comission's report would provide a roadmap for an area of Irish life that is badly served by existing services.

mattjack

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

The key difference in Vietnam is that the prevalence of Heroin being used IV (injecting it) was pretty much 0%. It was usually smoked. Ask any opiate user about heroin and they'll say, it's nothing special mostly, but when injected it's a totally different beast. I've seen many examples of people who have used heroin recreationally, i.e once every 2 weeks on a measured basis, but the key thing about them is they don't inject. It's not uncommon for these people who use responsibly to have a stable family life, good job etc. The needle is the problem in Ireland and abroad with regards to heroin use.

How many examples ?would, by saying ,you've seen many examples mean that you have an interest ? like a teacher,medical or treatment worker .

Once every two weeks is 26 times a year .When their tolerance increases ,suggests they may need to use more and more.

Someone who smokes heroin every two weeks should be sourcing foil from an exchange because of the risks of impurities in household foil and its hard to hide smoking because of the very distinct odour.

Roughly a quarter of people who use heroin develop an addiction.

In Ireland of people who use heroin one third smoke and two thirds inject, I've no idea where you live but if you know five who smoke then there's ten who inject.Quite a strain on a community.

Economically its more advantageous for your local dealer to have IV users rather than people smoking unless he's got high morals and he's happy to see them smoke only.

I don't know anybody who smokes heroin recreationally, I know quite a few who smoke it when trying to avoid a relapse back onto the needle and I know young addicts smoking who's tolerance is changing and finding they need more and more to get any effect,cost wise it starts to become more viable to move from smoking to injecting.

Don't disregard the Vietnam example its fairly well documented and acknowledged,
soldiers did return home addicted to heroin.

OldNotWIse

Oracle wrote: »

But isn't the junkie "problem" really just a symptom of a dysfunctional and decaying society? That's something we don't want to face up to. The visible junkies show that society isn't working and that makes us feel uncomfortable.

We're not all disfunctional. Some of us work and have relationships and children and responsibilities and goals etc. This thing of placing a blanket "blame" on society for every problem is a cop out.

Odysseus

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

The key difference in Vietnam is that the prevalence of Heroin being used IV (injecting it) was pretty much 0%. It was usually smoked. Ask any opiate user about heroin and they'll say, it's nothing special mostly, but when injected it's a totally different beast. I've seen many examples of people who have used heroin recreationally, i.e once every 2 weeks on a measured basis, but the key thing about them is they don't inject. It's not uncommon for these people who use responsibly to have a stable family life, good job etc. The needle is the problem in Ireland and abroad with regards to heroin use.

No it is not a significant number of users in treatment have no history of IVDU.

Dionysius2

Foxhound38 wrote: »

Was walking through O'Connell Street last night (not late mind, around 8PM) and was hassled no less than 4 times in the space of as many minutes by the zombies - one of whom was so off his tits shuffling about the place I was seriously considering ringing an ambulance on him before he inched off into the Burger King where they can keep an eye.

To me, it's an annoyance but I'm about as used to it as anyone else at this stage. What really gets up my goat is when I see them hassling tourists, as I did last night. What sort of image does that send out about Ireland, at a time when we really need the tourism?

Is it just me, or has the problem gotten worse in the last 2 or so years - every city in the country just seems to be crawling with junkies and the gardai do nothing about it. What can be done about this? Obviously our current ways of managing the problem aren't working out...

I find myself wondering to what extent the OP was served by the discourse of the thread ? To what extent was the OP's central question addressed : "What can be done about it ? "