Junkies

paddyandy

We've gone soft on all kinds of wrongdoing over the decades so nothing in the foreseeable future will be done only the usual rhetorical stance from agencies and political groups .There is a lot of apathy here so nothing seriously changes .Throw money at the Electorate and it is happy .

paddyandy

paddyandy wrote: »

We've gone soft on all kinds of wrongdoing over the decades so nothing in the foreseeable future will be done only the usual rhetorical stance from agencies and political groups .There is a lot of apathy here so nothing seriously changes .Throw money at the Electorate and it is happy .

I would imagine that the problem lies closer to the realism that throwing money at junkies, free drugs and free travel etc etc, just gives them carte blanche to spend the rest of their time wrecking everyone else's heads through harassment and anti-social behaviour.

IrishAm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I would imagine that the problem lies closer to the realism that throwing money at junkies, free drugs and free travel etc etc, just gives them carte blanche to spend the rest of their time wrecking everyone else's heads through harassment and anti-social behaviour.

Set up a treatment centre on one of the islands. Fortify it. Dont let them leave until they are clean.

Setting up meth clinics in Dublins city centre so the nations junkballs congregate in tourist areas is insanity.

Outkast_IRE

Lets open a treatment centre which lets them inject clean heroin in a safe environment, then one day in a few months time lets swap the heroin for something which sends them to sleep forever.
Problem taken care of quickly for the entire city in one day.

UglyBolloxFace

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Lets open a treatment centre which lets them inject clean heroin in a safe environment, then one day in a few months time lets swap the heroin for something which sends them to sleep forever.
Problem taken care of quickly for the entire city in one day.

The most insensitive and stupid post I've ever had the displeasure to read.

IrishAm

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Lets open a treatment centre which lets them inject clean heroin in a safe environment, then one day in a few months time lets swap the heroin for something which sends them to sleep forever.
Problem taken care of quickly for the entire city in one day.

The average age for a heroin abuser is 42. Most come from completely fucked up dysfunctional backgrounds and got caught up in drugs when they were very young and naive. Its not like nine year old Anto dreamed of shooting up every day in back street alleys when he grew up.

Lets focus on the scum that deal the smack, pass firm legislation and allow the gardai to crack some heads, instead of dreaming of murdering junkies. Who haven't the longest of lifespans as is.

Ellis Dee

Outkast_IRE wrote: »

Lets open a treatment centre which lets them inject clean heroin in a safe environment, then one day in a few months time lets swap the heroin for something which sends them to sleep forever.

What you are advocating is called murder in most societies - even Ireland.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Anyway, wouldn't that kind of sneaky tactic be a little like the showers in Auschwitz? I hope you wouldn't want to go down that road again:eek:

IrishAm

IrishAm wrote: »

The average age for a heroin abuser is 42. Most come from completely fucked up dysfunctional backgrounds and got caught up in drugs when they were very young and naive. Its not like nine year old Anto dreamed of shooting up every day in back street alleys when he grew up.

Lets focus on the scum that deal the smack, pass firm legislation and allow the gardai to crack some heads, instead of dreaming of murdering junkies. Who haven't the longest of lifespans as is.

I think it's a given at this stage that no matter what approach is taken towards drug dealers, as long as there is so much money to be made there will always be people willing to make it, no matter the consequences.

IrishAm

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I think it's a given at this stage that no matter what approach is taken towards drug dealers, as long as there is so much money to be made there will always be people willing to make it, no matter the consequences.

Lock them up, make them work in chain gangs in full view of their local community on a daily basis. Demean the fuck out of them.

That would knock the glitz and glam off the lifestyle fairly sharpish. Little Johnny might not be so quick to get into dealing then.

Odysseus

IrishAm wrote: »

The average age for a heroin abuser is 42. Most come from completely fucked up dysfunctional backgrounds and got caught up in drugs when they were very young and naive. Its not like nine year old Anto dreamed of shooting up every day in back street alleys when he grew up.

Lets focus on the scum that deal the smack, pass firm legislation and allow the gardai to crack some heads, instead of dreaming of murdering junkies. Who haven't the longest of lifespans as is.

Where are you getting that average age from?

IrishAm

Odysseus wrote: »

Where are you getting that average age from?

From memory of a project I did with my CSPE class.

Is it wrong?

Odysseus

IrishAm wrote: »

From memory of a project I did with my CSPE class.

Is it wrong?

I hsave no stats to counter it with but in my professional experience yes

themandan6611

you'd think most would be dead by that age

christmas2012

From what i have seen a lot of heroin users are getting younger,and younger,there from all sorts of backgrounds..

Got hassled there on william street in limerick there the other day then was called a **** and he walked off when he realised i didnt have any money to give him.Im broke meself.

Most of them are in hostels getting dole anyhow..

IrishAm

Odysseus wrote: »

I hsave no stats to counter it with but in my professional experience yes

Younger or older?

We got the info from a local group in our area that deals with junkballs.

Caliden

Odysseus wrote: »

I hsave no stats to counter it with but in my professional experience yes

Personal experience only could give skewed results though.

Odysseus

IrishAm wrote: »

Younger or older?

We got the info from a local group in our area that deals with junkballs.

Junkballs nice use of language there

Odysseus

Caliden wrote: »

Personal experience only could give skewed results though.

Not if it concurs with other professionals

lima

UglyBolloxFace wrote: »

The most insensitive and stupid post I've ever had the displeasure to read.

Why? They are dead already, it would be giving society a great hand

captain caveman

Found a syringe on the beach... kind of buried in the sand. What if I'd have been an inquisitive toddler or even just someone in bare feet?? Its a sad story when you see someone with an addiction, but for fcuk sake, dont bother the rest of us with it... I dont want to give you change, I dont want to catch your diseases from your dirty needles, I dont want to see you have a sh1t off O'Connell St when I'm on my way to work and I dont want my taxes paying for your well-being. Put em all on The Blasket Islands and leave em too it I say...

christmas2012

then that would **** up the blasket islands lol..

whistlingtitan

IrishAm wrote: »

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

I think it's a given at this stage that no matter what approach is taken towards drug dealers, as long as there is so much money to be made there will always be people willing to make it, no matter the consequences.

Lock them up, make them work in chain gangs in full view of their local community on a daily basis. Demean the fuck out of them.

That would knock the glitz and glam off the lifestyle fairly sharpish. Little Johnny might not be so quick to get into dealing then.

They started this in parts of America but they make them wear pink boiler suits and walk them through town it is already having an effect there

scamalert

didnt bother reading through all the thread,but the whole $hit springs not from the junkies,scumbacks or other low lifes in this country,its the law and non existence of guns for guards to do their jobs,every week theres a coplaint thread about how someone got harassed or pushed around by some scum-backs,and did F,all to defend themselves,even if possibility arose to to smash 16y olds head into the curb for that, the person would be facing jail time and other troubles for the rest of life,same goes for the gardai,they cant do F*** in this country without full wan called out to take care of couple inbreeds.Now the $hit heads can do whatever they want and if they are unlucky they get to court to get a slap on hand and back on the street.until they are allowed to shot eejits in the day light, and bang their heads until they are in coma nothing will change.(anyway joke of the country it is,especially since ive seen the video not so long ago where the travelers where taking over the motorway for the races) and guards escorted them :pac: since everyone of them at the end was some sort of criminal,but no dont blame them they were raised that way and society lets it,let em live that way its part of culture isint it. :rolleyes:

shanered

I think heroin users can live to decent ages once they have a continuing habit and they are not suddenly taken off it for some reason.
I dont think the problem lies with the garda having firearms, not like they would shoot a scumbag or junkie for hassling somebody in the city center, its much more the attitude and lack of reporting and proper affermitave action rather then their firepower, I believe the guards would only realyy need firearms in the event of weapons being used against them or as a quick way to save anothers life from an assailant, while still in the latter all ways bar the fatal means should be tried before shoot to kill which would have to be limited to certain situations.
And I don't believe introducing guns into the garda force would be a good move as the result will as with nearly every armed police force, mistaken killings of trigger happy rookies. Nearly every police force has had dodgy police which love to have the power of pointing a gun into peoples faces as a profession. Its just what happens.....
but on the issue of junkies, they should have facilities provided away from the tourist areas or in one centralised location and a heavy crack down on any public harrassment.

MadYaker

This problem is worse in Dublin than most places. I've certainly never seen it in Galway, If you're around at night theres always a few drunks like any other town but I've never been hassled by any smack heads. I've been on a few nights in Dublin but never had it happen to me, though my friends who are in college there say its quite common in the city centre. Theres not much point in the gardai arresting the junkies themselves, they need to go after the dealers and people bringing it into the country.

MadYaker

scamalert wrote: »

didnt bother reading through all the thread,but the whole $hit springs not from the junkies,scumbacks or other low lifes in this country,its the law and non existence of guns for guards to do their jobs,every week theres a coplaint thread about how someone got harassed or pushed around by some scum-backs,and did F,all to defend themselves,even if possibility arose to to smash 16y olds head into the curb for that, the person would be facing jail time and other troubles for the rest of life,same goes for the gardai,they cant do F*** in this country without full wan called out to take care of couple inbreeds.Now the $hit heads can do whatever they want and if they are unlucky they get to court to get a slap on hand and back on the street.until they are allowed to shot eejits in the day light, and bang their heads until they are in coma nothing will change.(anyway joke of the country it is,especially since ive seen the video not so long ago where the travelers where taking over the motorway for the races) and guards escorted them :pac: since everyone of them at the end was some sort of criminal,but no dont blame them they were raised that way and society lets it,let em live that way its part of culture isint it. :rolleyes:

You're post is misinformed and your view of the justice system in this country is a bit inaccurate. Giving the gardai guns and allowing them to "shot eejits in day light", as you put it, would create far more problems than it would solve.

christmas2012

I think limerick is getting bad enough,(been to dublin and ya it is just worse..all strewn across the floozy in the jacuzzi and all along the gresham drunks everywhere and the spire,its like a giant fookin needle)in limerick right now,you cant walk down the main strips of street without getting hassled or bumped into for change,they were even standing outside poundshops(all i can afford when i save up for my outings),it can be quite intimidating when seeing junkies hanging around in the late evening nightime,they can get a bit desperate,i was shouted at the other day by a junkie passing by,they need to clean the streets up have more gards out on the beat..i notice they only frequent the same places cant be that hard to at least move them on,i know were all on hard times,but these guys get free bed and bord in hostels and some dole money and there out begging!?its just crazy..somebody needs to do something about it,but i have to agree going after the dealers bringing this stuff into the country needs to be sorted out first,i heard two guys died from bad heroin in the steamboat quay an area that is notorious for drugs in limerick..the gards must know who the dealers are,it cant be too hard to know who they are if they are in those circles of dealing with junkies and small time crooks etc..

scamalert

shanered wrote: »

And I don't believe introducing guns into the garda force would be a good move as the result will as with nearly every armed police force, mistaken killings of trigger happy rookies. Nearly every police force has had dodgy police which love to have the power of pointing a gun into peoples faces as a profession. Its just what happens.....
but on the issue of junkies, they should have facilities provided away from the tourist areas or in one centralised location and a heavy crack down on any public harrassment.

why most countries forces have firearms and irish guards cant ? also why someone with over 10 criminal offences is still on the streets ?its same story as with the banks people who make create law and legalize it they sit in government houses,live in some posh areas and have no clue what goes in the streets or how people are supposed to live on minimum wage(sorry for such comparing but There is much truth in it if you think.)

scamalert

christmas2012 good idea spike all the heroin coke with rat poison,and we have level 1 cleared in a day wouldn't cost even 10e per town.

A_Sober_Paddy

Best way to fix the junkie problem...

Taint a batch of Heroin with some seriously toxic substance and will be kill the user off with even the smallest amount. Give then tainted product to known dealers and let them sell it.

After a few months, the herds of junkies have been tinned out, and crime will be down and the fear of doing off Heroin will be at an all time high, thus more fear of using it.

/junkies

christmas2012

even if somebody does that there will always be junkies remember they have an addiction they will do literally anything to get their hands on their fix even if there is a risk it might be mixed the wrong way or mixed with the wrong material they dont care they are desperate..

Odysseus

To all those sh!tting on about toxic gear, some contaminated heroin was sold in a community I work recently. Thankfully it would not kill someone, but a small amount left people not going what they have do for about a week.

People never arrested are facing jail, some of the abuses that happened to people without their knowledge, imagine it was you sister. Be of course I sure you think they deserve it.

scamalert

christmas2012 wrote: »

even if somebody does that there will always be junkies remember they have an addiction they will do literally anything to get their hands on their fix even if there is a risk it might be mixed the wrong way or mixed with the wrong material they dont care they are desperate..

One more down then
Speaking seriously some of them could be detoxed and brought back into society ,but what about the scum who cause other troubles,and the cost that every taxpayer pays for.

IrishAm

whistlingtitan wrote: »

They started this in parts of America but they make them wear pink boiler suits and walk them through town it is already having an effect there

I would imagine it is. What states?

IrishAm

MadYaker wrote: »

This problem is worse in Dublin than most places. I've certainly never seen it in Galway.

There may not be many junkies in Galway, but there are a lot of Galway junkies in Dublin.

Most of the methadone and treatment clinics are based in Dublin. Thus, most of Irelands junkies reside in Dublin.

A_Sober_Paddy

Odysseus wrote: »

To all those sh!tting on about toxic gear, some contaminated heroin was sold in a community I work recently. Thankfully it would not kill someone, but a small amount left people not going what they have do for about a week.

People never arrested are facing jail, some of the abuses that happened to people without their knowledge, imagine it was you sister. Be of course I sure you think they deserve it.

I'd be more concerned for the person that "my sister" may attack to get money to buy this gear.

I'm lucky enough to have 2 brothers who are smart enough not to get messed up with drugs...A group of my mates do drugs regularly(not heroin) but I've since made an effort to stay away from them as I'd like to not get caught up with the stuff. It been about 5 months since I spoke to any of them and I'm not regretting it one bit.

Odysseus

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

I'd be more concerned for the person that "my sister" may attack to get money to buy this gear.

I'm lucky enough to have 2 brothers who are smart enough not to get messed up with drugs...A group of my mates do drugs regularly(not heroin) but I've since made an effort to stay away from them as I'd like to not get caught up with the stuff. It been about 5 months since I spoke to any of them and I'm not regretting it one bit.

Not all addicts actually attack people or steal to get gear. Some shock horror pay for it from working.

IrishAm

Odysseus wrote: »

Some shock horror pay for it from working.

Very few chronic heroin abusers work, in fairness.

A_Sober_Paddy

Odysseus wrote: »

Not all addicts actually attack people or steal to get gear. Some shock horror pay for it from working.

IrishAm wrote: »

Very few chronic heroin abusers work, in fairness.

Well from my experience with Heroin users, is that they steal...

Worked in a shop for 4 and a half years and the amount of scum who I caught trying to steal tin foil, I just gave them a free sheet from the deli...half with the hope that I'd not being ever seeing them again

SHOVELLER

First move must be get them out of the city centre. Any sane person would agree to that.

christmas2012

yeah i notice in limerick they are congregating around o connell street even,that never used to happen,they were always in groups around william street usually coming from ballinacurra or the hostels or there abouts..never saw as many there the other day,i got hassled bumped into and called a **** all because i couldnt afford to throw a few cents,these fellas get everything free on top of their dole and there out sponging too!

little swift

here we go again everybody bashing the junkies. its not their fault that society cant handle their perdicaments. the drugs they use have been pushed on them by drug pushers who dont give a toss about anybody encluding you or i. they just see money signs on any lost souls that happens to fall into their trap.and also even if their was no junkies in the country there still would be crime. so its not just the junkies robbing and stealing.people just have to wake up and and realise there is worst things out there than just the junkies who are only a small part of what goes on in this country. lets start putting the blame on the people you and i elected to run this country because they for one dont seem to be worried about whats goes on out side of their nice little nook they call the dail. and all those people giving out about the junkies should count them selfs lucky because you dont live in the junkie relm so you dont reaily know how they live.its eazy for you and bloody hard for them.
education and treatment is safest way of going about solving the problem rather than arming the garda

christmas2012

im not suggesting to arm the gards and shoot them,im totally against that approach,hey im all for them getting the help they need,theres lots of treatment clinics in ireland at the mo where they can get their methadone treatments

Bobby Baccala

The ignorance in this thread is fúcking disgusting. "kill them all, they're basically already dead" "They're what's wrong with society" the same kind of shít is being said over and over again. The majority of you people have probably never sat down and talked to a heroin addict in your life have you? Well they live a fúcking daily struggle every day that you people couldnt even bare to imagine.

2 of my uncles were heroin addicts and both died of overdoses. 1 of them was my fathers best friend, he's gone and it nearly destroyed my father to see him go. All you ignorant fúcks sit there and think you know what's right. "just kill them all". yeah think of the addicts families that have to stand by and watch their family members destroy themselves. Next time fúcking think about what you people say before wishing death upon drug addicts.

Capt'n Midnight

The King of Moo wrote: »

I know what it means. In fact, that's kind of my point. Both "junkie" and "heroin addict" mean the same thing, but "junkie" has far greater negative connotation, and is more dehumanising, in my opinion.

"Heroin addict" forces a person to remember that whatever their opinion of them, junkies are people who are addicted to heroin, and not sub-human monsters.

I disagree.

It's like the difference between an alcoholic and a functioning alcoholic.

You can be an addict without being a junkie.

To me the word junkie implies a likelyhood of scumbaggery

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

People have an adverse reaction to the concept but when dealing with drug abuse you basically need to decide do you want to cure the junkie of their addiction (which is costly, normally fails badly and usually is attempted through a flawed process) or do you want to limit the junkies adverse affect of society.

You can't cure people from an addiction

They have to want to be cured.

So until then best that can be done is damage limitation.

In the overall economic context the damage done during the number of residential burglaries and the levels of theft and supply of stolen goods and court times and cashflow to other criminals means that there should be proper clinics.

Capt'n Midnight

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

How would you get rid of junkies? Seriously. It's not like you can just put out a notice: "Would all junkies please congregate outside Starbucks at 8pm on Friday so we can round ye all up and shoot ye up."

fyp :pac:

Odysseus

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Well from my experience with Heroin users, is that they steal...

Worked in a shop for 4 and a half years and the amount of scum who I caught trying to steal tin foil, I just gave them a free sheet from the deli...half with the hope that I'd not being ever seeing them again

We give it out free now, much better quality, made for smoking heroin on. The foil we give out causes less damage to the lungs. We have been giving out crack pipes too. I can hear all the "my taxes" fcukers almost having a heart attack at that.

Piste

I wonder if there's a case to be made for providing free heroin with clean needles but with the stipulation that any women receiving the heroin should receive the Depot Provera injection (contraceptive injection that lasts for 3 months) to prevent children being born into families of addicts or being born with a heroin addiction themselves. It seems like a good idea, but at the same time having such a strict control over someone's fertility is a bit unsettling. Though then again, you could argue that giving up their right to children is the price they should have to pay for state-funded and issued clean heroin.

That being said, heroin addicts don't tend to have that much sex anyway. (this is something I heard from an Infectious Diseases consultant who deals with a lot of heroin addicts).

Providing clean needles and heroin could well save the HSE more money in the long term as they wouldn't have to pay for chronic diseases like Hep C and HIV, and if the heroin is clean and always the same amount there's a much lower risk of OD so they wouldn't be coming into A&E with overdoses.

Odysseus

Piste wrote: »

I wonder if there's a case to be made for providing free heroin with clean needles but with the stipulation that any women receiving the heroin should receive the Depot Provera injection (contraceptive injection that lasts for 3 months) to prevent children being born into families of addicts or being born with a heroin addiction themselves. It seems like a good idea, but at the same time having such a strict control over someone's fertility is a bit unsettling. Though then again, you could argue that giving up their right to children is the price they should have to pay for state-funded and issued clean heroin.


That being said, heroin addicts don't tend to have that much sex anyway. (this is something I heard from an Infectious Diseases consultant who deals with a lot of heroin addicts).

Providing clean needles and heroin could well save the HSE more money in the long term as they wouldn't have to pay for chronic diseases like Hep C and HIV, and if the heroin is clean and always the same amount there's a much lower risk of OD so they wouldn't be coming into A&E with overdoses.

We used to offer it to those who wanted it, but due to cut backs it is no longer offerred

Heroins user can have a lot of sex

Odysseus

christmas2012 wrote: »

im not suggesting to arm the gards and shoot them,im totally against that approach,hey im all for them getting the help they need,theres lots of treatment clinics in ireland at the mo where they can get their methadone treatments

Which are all being cut back in the services we can offer