Unlicenced Drivers

hondasam

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=uk%20police%20statistics%20on%20unaccompanied%20drivers&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CGMQtwIwBg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dorset.police.uk%2Fdefault.aspx%3Fpage%3D4524&ei=5xTWT4PvF4TG0QWivLC7BA&usg=AFQjCNGfeg8q0dBPqsoY3WzU9Yam6ewWdQ

This is from 2010 plenty of offences committed in the UK as well as here.

stoneill

People take chances and risks all the time.
How many times have you been stopped or seen a checkpoint?
If you need to get to work and are still on a learners permit of course you are going to drive - the risk of a checkpoint or getting stopped is so low that it is almost negligible.
I have had a full licence since 1989, in all that time I have been through a total of 2 checkpoints and one of them I was waved through without stopping.

Indricotherium

TheDoc wrote: »

Ah here

Your just jumping to conclusions and are going to keep playing the " breaking the law card".

I've no idea what the test is like, but I'd gather going for it so soon might be a touch early, most people I've spoken to said they were on their permit for a year before applying for their test.

And if you want specifics, I don't feel utterly confident with reversing around corners, certain types of parking and the specifics of the engine fluids ( which I believe is asked during every test). But bar any anomalies or freakish incidents I can't forsee any major issues. I did a mock test on my last lesson and passed, but my instructor advised more practice to hone in on some of the little things.

Maybe there is every possibility that I could pass it if I sat it tomorrow,but I'm not feeling an impending rush to do it, and want to get more practice and experience in before doing it. And when I inquired in the first week of June about waiting times, its about 6-8 weeks according to the lady I contacted by phone.

No ones jumping to conclusions. You've said you break the law and you think it's okay because your mammy and daddy said so.

ABajaninCork

hondasam wrote: »

You really think no one in the UK drives unaccompanied on a prov d/lic?

No, I don't. But the police in the UK TAKE ACTION!! Which is more than can be said for the Gards....

Frankly, I'm sick of the sense of entitlement here. Why not just obey the law, practice with a licensed driver and take your bloody test???

hondasam

ABajaninCork wrote: »

No, I don't. But the police in the UK TAKE ACTION!! Which is more than can be said for the Gards....

Frankly, I'm sick of the sense of entitlement here. Why not just obey the law, practice with a licensed driver and take your bloody test???

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=when%20can%20police%20uk%20seize%20car&source=web&cd=10&sqi=2&ved=0CG8QFjAJ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.west-midlands.police.uk%2Fnp%2Fbirminghameast%2Fnews%2Fnewsitem.asp%3Fid%3D8635&ei=2B7WT-iWNoX80QXExLn1Aw&usg=AFQjCNFO_IKnqfI05S1LFm9_DuKUtJkB_g

The guards here take action as well.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20unaccompanied%20provisional%20licence%20ireland&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F22-learner-drivers-a-day-summonsed-for-breaking-laws-127098.html&ei=gyDWT7LjAeLB0gWax-CRBA&usg=AFQjCNGvvdYsnDx0ikuBrNb4tR-boAWXHA

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

The guards here take action as well.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20unaccompanied%20provisional%20licence%20ireland&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F22-learner-drivers-a-day-summonsed-for-breaking-laws-127098.html&ei=gyDWT7LjAeLB0gWax-CRBA&usg=AFQjCNGvvdYsnDx0ikuBrNb4tR-boAWXHA

No they dont. Almost everyone I know drove for at least a year, most quite a bit longer, unaccompanied on a learners permit, all went through random checks, several were involved in accidents, and Ive never heard of anyone ever be called up for driving unaccompanied. The Gardai simply dont give a toss about the learner driver laws and have absolutely no interest in enforcing them.

ABajaninCork

[QUOTEThe guards here take action as well.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20unaccompanied%20provisional%20licence%20ireland&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F22-learner-drivers-a-day-summonsed-for-breaking-laws-127098.html&ei=gyDWT7LjAeLB0gWax-CRBA&usg=AFQjCNGvvdYsnDx0ikuBrNb4tR-boAWXHA[/QUOTE]

Not as far as I can see. I already gave one example. Direct evidence, rather than taking someone else's word for it. (i.e. my best friend's cousin's, stepfather's auntie). I can point to several others...

hondasam

djimi wrote: »

No they dont. Almost everyone I know drove for at least a year, most quite a bit longer, unaccompanied on a learners permit, all went through random checks, several were involved in accidents, and Ive never heard of anyone ever be called up for driving unaccompanied. The Gardai simply dont give a toss about the learner driver laws and have absolutely no interest in enforcing them.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=learner%20drivers%20in%20court%20ireland&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG8QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2012%2F0518%2F1224316282526.html&ei=FyLWT5HZDoXQhAe9sYjJAw&usg=AFQjCNHJORPnIx4fNKC2uH7zdjYxe0yp0Q

You might not have heard it but it does happen. I know people who drive unaccompanied but I also know people who don't.

Mycroft H

djimi wrote: »

No they dont. Almost everyone I know drove for at least a year, most quite a bit longer, unaccompanied on a learners permit, all went through random checks, several were involved in accidents, and Ive never heard of anyone ever be called up for driving unaccompanied. The Gardai simply dont give a toss about the learner driver laws and have absolutely no interest in enforcing them.

My cousin got done for driving unaccompanied a few years back. 300 euro fine.

stoneill

TheDoc wrote: »

A short conversation with the insurer who reviewed the training logs from the instructor and I was granted insurance for being by myself in the car , on a provisional license. To re-iterate, I'm insured, whilst being on my own.

Ahh - the naivety of the young dealing with insurance companies.

Yes they will take your money - no you will not be insured if anything happens.

spacecookie555

djimi wrote: »

hondasam wrote: »

The guards here take action as well.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20unaccompanied%20provisional%20licence%20ireland&source=web&cd=4&ved=0CHMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishexaminer.com%2Fireland%2F22-learner-drivers-a-day-summonsed-for-breaking-laws-127098.html&ei=gyDWT7LjAeLB0gWax-CRBA&usg=AFQjCNGvvdYsnDx0ikuBrNb4tR-boAWXHA

No they dont. Almost everyone I know drove for at least a year, most quite a bit longer, unaccompanied on a learners permit, all went through random checks, several were involved in accidents, and Ive never heard of anyone ever be called up for driving unaccompanied. The Gardai simply dont give a toss about the learner driver laws and have absolutely no interest in enforcing them.

And rightly so because we all don't have full license drivers that we can throw in the car everytime we want to pop to the shop.
I personally dont anyway, my mother and father work very long hours and I dont live at home so theres no one there but im training to be a nurse and would have no way of getting to work cause the buses dont go to nursing homes so what am I to do?? Rent someone out to sit in my car for the day??
And ive never crashed but ive been crashed into by a full licence driver who was speeding with a child in their car and ive nearly been in a lot of accidents because of the cockiness/arrogance of so called full licence drivers! A piece of different coloured paper doesnt make someone a responsible person.

Phew! Rant over!

Mycroft H

TheDoc wrote: »

A short conversation with the insurer who reviewed the training logs from the instructor and I was granted insurance for being by myself in the car , on a provisional license. To re-iterate, I'm insured, whilst being on my own. Pretty unheard of going by the other companies I'd contacted.

lol

Did you get that in writing? Otherwise, it's not worth jack shit

And to correct stoneill's post, you legally will have 3rd party cover when driving unaccompanied, but only that. Forget the insurance company covering your own injuries or your cars damages though.

Mycroft H

spacecookie555 wrote: »

And rightly so because we all don't have full license drivers that we can throw in the car everytime we want to pop to the shop.
I personally dont anyway, my mother and father work very long hours and I dont live at home so theres no one there but im training to be a nurse and would have no way of getting to work cause the buses dont go to nursing homes so what am I to do?? Rent someone out to sit in my car for the day??
And ive never crashed but ive been crashed into by a full licence driver who was speeding with a child in their car and ive nearly been in a lot of accidents because of the cockiness/arrogance of so called full licence drivers! A piece of different coloured paper doesnt make someone a responsible person.

Phew! Rant over!

Get a bicycle. Your not qualified, rant over.

djimi

spacecookie555 wrote: »

And rightly so because we all don't have full license drivers that we can throw in the car everytime we want to pop to the shop.
I personally dont anyway, my mother and father work very long hours and I dont live at home so theres no one there but im training to be a nurse and would have no way of getting to work cause the buses dont go to nursing homes so what am I to do?? Rent someone out to sit in my car for the day??
And ive never crashed but ive been crashed into by a full licence driver who was speeding with a child in their car and ive nearly been in a lot of accidents because of the cockiness/arrogance of so called full licence drivers! A piece of different coloured paper doesnt make someone a responsible person.

Phew! Rant over!

So what youre saying is that its okay to break the law when its an inconvenience for you to obey it?

You dont have a drivers license. Justify it any way you want in your head but that does not change the fact that you do not hold a license to drive a car. You hold a license to learn how to drive a car, which is not the same thing. As soon as learners in this country get that drummed into their head the better.

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=learner%20drivers%20in%20court%20ireland&source=web&cd=7&ved=0CG8QFjAG&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnewspaper%2Fireland%2F2012%2F0518%2F1224316282526.html&ei=FyLWT5HZDoXQhAe9sYjJAw&usg=AFQjCNHJORPnIx4fNKC2uH7zdjYxe0yp0Q

You might not have heard it but it does happen. I know people who drive unaccompanied but I also know people who don't.

Im sure it happens occasionally, but it should happen every time. There should be no exceptions. The vast majority of learners can drive unaccompanied for as long as they want completely safe in the knowledge that they will not get prosecuted, even if caught. No amount of articles saying a handful get done for it will change that. They could prosecute ten times the amount that they do every day and they would only be scratching the surface of the problem. There is no fear or incentive for learners to obey the law.

JerCotter7

Do away with the whole 12 lessons and 6 month wait. Let you sit the test as soon as you think you are able for it. I had 3 lessons and passed. Had to wait 6 months though for it so I drove away by myself.

hondasam

It's easy to pick on learner drivers, we all break the rules of the road and anyone that say's they don't are telling little white lies.
You could say the same for all road offences, gardai do not prosecute enough people but yet if we are caught we all want to get off with a caution.

Mister Jingles

Decrease the price of the driving test and give the driving test an overhaul, and that includes testers. That should help this issue.

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

It's easy to pick on learner drivers, we all break the rules of the road and anyone that say's they don't are telling little white lies.
You could say the same for all road offences, gardai do not prosecute enough people but yet if we are caught we all want to get off with a caution.

In fairness there is a world of difference between me driving at 90 on an 80 stretch of dual carraigeway and potentially dangerously inexperienced driver being allowed to toddle along on their merry way after being stopped by a Garda. A learner driver is just that; a learner. There is now way of differentiating between learners who have been driving for two years and are well able to pass the test, and those who have spent less than 5 minutes behind the wheel of a car. Thats why they all need to be treated the same; as if they are the very bottom of the scale.

It has nothing to do with fairness or anything like that; its a serious safety and the attitude towards it in this country is a disgrace. Only in Ireland would we take the attitude "ah sure its grand, let them off" and then cricisize those who dare to speak out against the problem.

spacecookie555

djimi wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

And rightly so because we all don't have full license drivers that we can throw in the car everytime we want to pop to the shop.
I personally dont anyway, my mother and father work very long hours and I dont live at home so theres no one there but im training to be a nurse and would have no way of getting to work cause the buses dont go to nursing homes so what am I to do?? Rent someone out to sit in my car for the day??
And ive never crashed but ive been crashed into by a full licence driver who was speeding with a child in their car and ive nearly been in a lot of accidents because of the cockiness/arrogance of so called full licence drivers! A piece of different coloured paper doesnt make someone a responsible person.

Phew! Rant over!

So what youre saying is that its okay to break the law when its an inconvenience for you to obey it?

You dont have a drivers license. Justify it any way you want in your head but that does not change the fact that you do not hold a license to drive a car. You hold a license to learn how to drive a car, which is not the same thing. As soon as learners in this country get that drummed into their head the better.

But didnt you just say above that almost everyone you know does it?? Do you tell them that?? Its just not practical, people have to get to work, they have to drop the kids to school etc... Irelands public transport is just not up to a standard that can accomodate this, if it was many including myself would use it instead of driving. The reason the guards dont care is because they have a bit of cop on and realise that the way the world should be and the way it is are two very different things.

hondasam

djimi wrote: »

In fairness there is a world of difference between me driving at 90 on an 80 stretch of dual carraigeway and potentially dangerously inexperienced driver being allowed to toddle along on their merry way after being stopped by a Garda. A learner driver is just that; a learner. There is now way of differentiating between learners who have been driving for two years and are well able to pass the test, and those who have spent less than 5 minutes behind the wheel of a car. Thats why they all need to be treated the same; as if they are the very bottom of the scale.

It has nothing to do with fairness or anything like that; its a serious safety and the attitude towards it in this country is a disgrace. Only in Ireland would we take the attitude "ah sure its grand, let them off" and then cricisize those who dare to speak out against the problem.

I'm not disagreeing with you but the test is rubbish. I think it should be held over five days with some driving everyday and a written test as well.
On the last day you are judged on your driving skills. The way it is now anyone can be lucky on the day and drive away thinking great I passed but are still crap at driving.
Some good drivers fail on little things and there is a pass/fail ratio for the day plus the mood of the instructor.

spacecookie555

spacecookie555 wrote: »

But didnt you just say above that almost everyone you know does it?? Do you tell them that?? Its just not practical, people have to get to work,.

Do they suddenly wake up one morning with a job and no licence? No. If they're that desperate they can start early and prepare before they get a job

djimi

spacecookie555 wrote: »

But didnt you just say above that almost everyone you know does it?? Do you tell them that?? Its just not practical, people have to get to work, they have to drop the kids to school etc... Irelands public transport is just not up to a standard that can accomodate this, if it was many including myself would use it instead of driving. The reason the guards dont care is because they have a bit of cop on and realise that the way the world should be and the way it is are two very different things.

Of course I told them!

Whether or not its practical/convenient is utterly and totally irrelevant. If you need to drive then get a license. Otherwise you are not licensed and permitted to drive a car unaccompanied. Thats the bottom line; there is nothing more to it.

The way the world should be? That its okay for potentially dangerously unsuitable drivers to drive on a learners permit unaccompanied because they have to drop the kids off to school/go down the shops for a pint of milk? I will never be able to get my head around this line of thinking...

Question: I live out in the backarse of nowhere and there is no public transport or taxis. Is it okay for me to drive home the five or so miles from the pub with a few drinks in me? After all, its just not practical for me to not to.

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not disagreeing with you but the test is rubbish. I think it should be held over five days with some driving everyday and a written test as well.
On the last day you are judged on your driving skills. The way it is now anyone can be lucky on the day and drive away thinking great I passed but are still crap at driving.
Some good drivers fail on little things and there is a pass/fail ratio for the day plus the mood of the instructor.

I agree with you about the test and the state of this system in general in this country, but in fairness that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and is a totally different topic for discussion!

Auguste Comte

spacecookie555 wrote: »

ive nearly been in a lot of accidents

Phew! Rant over!

This speaks volumes.
Has it occurred to you that maby you were the cause of the near misses and the more qualified experienced drivers saved your bacon.

hondasam

djimi wrote: »

I agree with you about the test and the state of this system in general in this country, but in fairness that is completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand and is a totally different topic for discussion!

fair enough point taken.

Gardai here use discretion considering lots of drivers live in the country and have no public transport available.
It's all well saying prepare before hand etc but if you live 10/20 miles from the nearest town it's not easy.
The waiting list was ridiculous for some time with people waiting 12 months for tests and then another wait to resit if you failed.

spacecookie555

Auguste Comte wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

ive nearly been in a lot of accidents

Phew! Rant over!

This speaks volumes.
Has it occurred to you that maby you were the cause of the near misses and the more qualified experienced drivers saved your bacon.

Haha ye because a full licence driver overtaking me on a bend and almost forcing me into a ditch is my fault...

djimi

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha ye because a full licence driver overtaking me on a bend and almost forcing me into a ditch is my fault...

How do you know they were fully licensed? A shocking amount of learners do not bother with L plates because they (rightly unfortunately) beleive that it makes them immune to the law.

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

Gardai here use discretion considering lots of drivers live in the country and have no public transport available.
It's all well saying prepare before hand etc but if you live 10/20 miles from the nearest town it's not easy.
The waiting list was ridiculous for some time with people waiting 12 months for tests and then another wait to resit if you failed.

The point is that there is no room for discretion. How does the Garda know that the learner they let drive away isnt someone who has spent less than an hour behind the wheel of a car, and that they wont run a red light or miss a stop sign and cause a pileup?

Its a ridiculous notion that someone is immune from the law because they live in an area that is inconvenienced by that law. If you live out in the backarse of nowhere then its all the more incentive to get up off your arse and learn to drive. I grew up in the middle of nowhere. I got insured the minute I turned 17 and had a full license within 6 months, because I had no other option if I wanted to actually get out of the village I lived in! Saying that you have no other option but to drive on a learners permit is absolute nonsense.

Auguste Comte

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Haha ye because a full licence driver overtaking me on a bend and almost forcing me into a ditch is my fault...

Anybody having lots of near misses is doing something wrong, not anticipating what's likely to happen, not reading the road,conditions, other road users correctly but these are skills that are gained with experience.