Unlicenced Drivers

TheDoc

Indricotherium wrote: »

No ones jumping to conclusions. You've said you break the law and you think it's okay because your mammy and daddy said so.

That's utter bollox and condescending beyond belief. Its their car, of course they were going to be involved in the discussion. At no point did I say it was ok, I accept fully "I am breaking the law". I've been stopped at a few checkpoints for tax and twice waved on, once asked for license and handed back to me and then moved on.

Stop being a troll please and rehashing everything I say to try fit into your little snide remarks, your not funny, your not witty, your coming accross as a tool.

stoneill wrote: »

Ahh - the naivety of the young dealing with insurance companies.

Yes they will take your money - no you will not be insured if anything happens.

And again, simply more condescending remarks. I was very clear when speaking to the insurance company about being insured in the event of an accident and I was on my own, and they were very clear that I am. As it states on my policy, and as it states on the letter which accompanies it, that is kept in the car, that states I am insured to drive, on my own.

Maybe I'm horridly nieve in my understanding of policy cover, having written confirmation of a specific point of my policy, but I'm pretty sure, I'm covered.

Anyway backing away from this thread, tried to add some input from the perspective of a new and learning driver, but it appears as everyone else here got their practice and experience instantly before sitting a test, I'm just doing it wrong.

hondasam

djimi wrote: »

Whether or not I break the law does not make it right for you to do so. At least Ill admit I bend the speed limits from time to time, am fully prepared to accept the punishment for doing so and do not try and justify it by coming up with ridiculous excuses.

The point I make about drink driving is that its the same arguement; I cant drive home drunk just because I have no other way home, so why is it okay that I can drive unlicensed just because I have no other way of getting from A to B? Do you understand the point Im trying to make?

I understand your point.
I admit to breaking the speed limit and also to coming up with excuses for it but that's me. Drink driving is a big no in my book but it's mostly older drivers who do this tbf.

Mycroft H

hondasam wrote: »

BX 19 wrote: »

Ah here. Apples and oranges there. There is a sizable difference between driving unaccompanied while unqualified and speeding by 10km/h over the speed limit.

No if you want the gardai to enforce the rules of the road then there should be no exceptions.
This was one of my points it's ok for the gardai to ignore something if it suits certain people but they will bang on about others breaking the law.

I never said that. I've said it before that im all for greater enforcement of the road traffic laws. I dislike people speeding as much as you do.

What im getting at is that there is far greater evidence suggesting that learner drivers while driving unaccompanied are more likely to be involved in accidents then someone who speeds by 10km/h (6mph) in excess of the speed limit.

kirving

stoneill wrote: »

Ahh - the naivety of the young dealing with insurance companies.

Yes they will take your money - no you will not be insured if anything happens.

So what you're saying is that these drivers are also uninsured?

I don't drive unaccompanied, because I can't afford the fine. However, the insurance company told me that if I ever did need to drive alone, and had an accident, that I would be insured.

In any accident where a driver is at fault, and has to claim off their own insurane, they have committed an offence. Insurance companies still pay out. There is a possibility that cover would be reduced to the legal minimum of third party, or that they may look for costs (admin costs?). Either way, the driver is still insured.

BX 19 wrote: »

I What im getting at is that there is far greater evidence suggesting that learner drivers while driving unaccompanied are more likely to be involved in accidents then someone who speeds by 10km/h (6mph) in excess of the speed limit.

Fair enough, but how do accident rates compare between unaccompanies learners, accompanied learners, and newly qualified drivers?

Indricotherium

Why can't people just do the test.

It's a piece of piss. Drive around a town for a half an hour, don't cut out, don't brak a light, and make it obvious when you check your blind spot.

It actually couldn't be more straight forward and easy.

Anyone who has had a learner permit for the required 6 months, has any aptitude for driving at all and hasn't done and passed their test is a disgrace.

TheDoc

Just one final post

I understand that this thread has come out of an article post today and notice the high amount of unsupervised learners in accidents. Its a weird one in that I cant defend breaking the law, its one of those ones where its difficult to get the point accross and I see there is a very hostile reception here to people driving unaccompanied when they shouldnt.

Anyway reviewing this thread and some of the good points made I booked in for my test there, and appears I'm good to go in mid july. Thinking about the issues I could potentially face in the test, there is nothing I can't get better at by then.

I would say however there was a good opportunity by man to make constructive posts and instead of being overly hostile and attempting to be smart and snide, to actually be informative and in a way mature and educational as to what I'm doing is a bad idea and why ( i might not agree, but I might take something on board).

Anyways ill pop back end of july to wag my finger at the next permit poster.

hondasam

Indricotherium wrote: »

Why can't people just do the test.

It's a piece of piss. Drive around a town for a half an hour, don't cut out, don't brak a light, and make it obvious when you check your blind spot.

It actually couldn't be more straight forward and easy.

Anyone who has had a learner permit for the required 6 months, has any aptitude for driving at all and hasn't done and passed their test is a disgrace.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20test%20statistics%20pass%20rate%20ireland%202011&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FRSA%2FLearner-Drivers%2FThe-Driving-Test%2FDriving-Test-Centre%2FPass-Rates%2F&ei=-0HWT8esFITChAffx5XRAw&usg=AFQjCNFluCECfhknpebCwYYGvs-UlLWv5A

Why do so many people fail if it's so easy?

Indricotherium

hondasam wrote: »

Indricotherium wrote: »

Why can't people just do the test.

It's a piece of piss. Drive around a town for a half an hour, don't cut out, don't brak a light, and make it obvious when you check your blind spot.

It actually couldn't be more straight forward and easy.

Anyone who has had a learner permit for the required 6 months, has any aptitude for driving at all and hasn't done and passed their test is a disgrace.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20test%20statistics%20pass%20rate%20ireland%202011&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FRSA%2FLearner-Drivers%2FThe-Driving-Test%2FDriving-Test-Centre%2FPass-Rates%2F&ei=-0HWT8esFITChAffx5XRAw&usg=AFQjCNFluCECfhknpebCwYYGvs-UlLWv5A

Why do so many people fail if it's so easy?

That's incredible, looks like I bucked the trend in Naas!

I'd be booking Sligo if I had to do it again!!! : )

Jimbob 83

cackhanded

hondasam wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=driving%20test%20statistics%20pass%20rate%20ireland%202011&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CFUQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsa.ie%2FRSA%2FLearner-Drivers%2FThe-Driving-Test%2FDriving-Test-Centre%2FPass-Rates%2F&ei=-0HWT8esFITChAffx5XRAw&usg=AFQjCNFluCECfhknpebCwYYGvs-UlLWv5A

Why do so many people fail if it's so easy?

Because they've spent the last two years driving around on their own picking up lots of bad habits which they continue to display while doing the test.

hondasam

cackhanded wrote: »

Because they've spent the last two years driving around on their own picking up lots of bad habits which they continue to display while doing the test.

That is probably part of the reason but not for everyone. I think sometimes people fail on silly things and nerves get to some people.

spacecookie555

djimi wrote: »

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Well fair play to you for telling them.
But so far youve admitted to "breaking the law" by going 10km over the speeding limit thats still breaking the law, the speeding limits are there for a reason and speed is the biggest killer on the roads, it was even on the news today about harsher punishments for speeding. And THIS way of thinking thats it ok im only a little bit over needs to change. I have never broke the speeding limit, ever.
And drunk driving has no bearing on this debate, and no one should ever do it full licence or not.

Whether or not I break the law does not make it right for you to do so. At least Ill admit I bend the speed limits from time to time, am fully prepared to accept the punishment for doing so and do not try and justify it by coming up with ridiculous excuses.

The point I make about drink driving is that its the same arguement; I cant drive home drunk just because I have no other way home, so why is it okay that I can drive unlicensed just because I have no other way of getting from A to B? Do you understand the point Im trying to make?

Ah I do get your point alrite, I wish I had a full licence there id be much more comfortable to be honest, im just finishing off lessons then booking my test in d next month, fingers crossed.
But you have to see my point too thats its not the most practical, its a bad system which leads to bad habits, in my opinion you should be thought to drive properly in school and have re-tests every few years but until we do something like that things arent going to change. Im not going to give up my education and job because thats what id have to do.
I totally get where you're coming from and respect your opinion but we all break the law at some stage, giving out to someone for doing it when you do it yourself is a bit pot kettle black though you'd have to agree.

cackhanded

hondasam wrote: »

That is probably part of the reason but not for everyone. I think sometimes people fail on silly things and nerves get to some people.

And I'm sure sometimes it is silly things / nerves. But according to this, poor driving skills appears to be the major cause.

http://diaireland.com/articles/page/Top+10+Reasons+For+Failing+Your+Practical+Car+Driving+Test/

Chris_Heilong

Another thread aimed at frustration as to why learners are allowed drive illegally, there lot of them if you use the search function and as your stats show only 1 in 15 accidents involve learners, statistically that's very good, guess they are not all driving around looking for someone to crash into. The system for learning to drive in this country has come on leaps and bounds and they are revising it all the time, soon the will have the R plate system like you have in the UK.

Mister Jingles

Currently discussing this on FM104.

BeerSteakBirds

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Another thread aimed at frustration as to why learners are allowed drive illegally, there lot of them if you use the search function and as your stats show only 1 in 15 accidents involve learners, statistically that's very good, guess they are not all driving around looking for someone to crash into.

I don't know what the solution is. Many learners seem to obey the rules of the road better than drivers who already have their license. But then again you have the idiots in skangermobiles with their Burberry caps, L Plates and triple spoilers. Maybe learners should be allowed drive unaccompanied so long as it's only in the uncoolest looking spoiler free tiny ''Smart'' car possible with a capped speed on a required low rev weak engine and in industrial estates between defined out of office certain hours and with new road signs on the roads entering the estate so people know whats what. But I am not sure which estates would be suitable... so I cant say

The fastest way to pass your test is to get your own car which you know inside out and to drive unaccompanied. Even faster would be to do your test in an automatic and concentrate on observation instead of gear changes. Everytime you get into a different car even if it is the same make of car it is a slightly different drive until you get to know the engine. A learner driver who does his test in a big skangermobile almost deserves to fail. A tiny sub 1 Litre car which is easy to park and easy to do a U Turn etc in is the easiest way to go and I don't understand why more learners don't go for their test in something like that. It should be very hard to fail in one of those.

Learners have to cope with a lot of pressures which licensed drivers don't get so much. Tailgating and bad drivers who already mysteriously have a license is a problem for everyone but I discovered something really messed up when I took my sister out to teach her how to drive. There seems to be a type of licensed driver who is a total bully. Once they see someone with an L plate they tailgate them on purpose and use the horn etc on purpose. As an experienced driver who loves and perfects everything about driving I even discovered this type of bully when I forgot to take down my sisters L plates from my own car. Driving without due care and attention should include an offence of bullying learner drivers in my opinion.

Davidth88

slimjimmc wrote: »

Section 35 of the Road Traffic Act allows for a Learner Permit to be accepted in defence of a no-licence charge, so while they do not hold a Driving Licence the Learner Permit can be accepted as being ok.
http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/2006/en/act/pub/0023/sec0011.html#sec11



Section 38

I am not an expert , but if you were not to cherry pick the act you would see just above this that this is ONLY valid if ...

"(4) A learner permit has effect in accordance with its terms and conditions."

The terms and conditions being displaying L plates ( which most don't do ) and having a licenced driver with them .