Apple launches next-gen MacBook Pro with Retina screen

conor.hogan.2

For the Air it makes perfect sense and is fine, for a Pro it is ridiculous.

Hogzy

Eh, Is anyone else out there completely turned off by the fact that the SSD and ram cannot be upgraded.

What if the SSD fails out of the standard warranty period? Apple will charge a bomb to replace it.

And in 3yrs time 8gb of ram will be considered basic i would imagine.


Im absolutely shocked that apple have done this. Iv loved my MB's and MBP's but this is ridiculous.

Hogzy

Colonel Panic wrote: »

A 512GB Crucial M4 is around €450 now from Crucial's own website.

420EUR (at todays rates) from Amazon including delivery and Irish VAT which Amazon cahrges

AlmightyCushion

Hogzy wrote: »

Eh, Is anyone else out there completely turned off by the fact that the SSD and ram cannot be upgraded.

What if the SSD fails out of the standard warranty period? Apple will charge a bomb to replace it.

And in 3yrs time 8gb of ram will be considered basic i would imagine.


Im absolutely shocked that apple have done this. Iv loved my MB's and MBP's but this is ridiculous.

Considering laptops that cost €450 have 6/8GBs of ram (processors that are rubbish in comparison), 8GBs is pretty close to basic as it is. Never thought I'd ever consider 8GBs memory basic mind.

Hogzy wrote: »

420EUR (at todays rates) from Amazon including delivery and Irish VAT which Amazon cahrges

Ebuyer have one for £280 when you use a promo code.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/crucial-512gb-m4-ssd-slim-7mm-280-84-ebuyer-using-10-code-1242457

opinion guy

Hogzy wrote: »

420EUR (at todays rates) from Amazon including delivery and Irish VAT which Amazon cahrges

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Ebuyer have one for £280 when you use a promo code.

http://www.hotukdeals.com/deals/crucial-512gb-m4-ssd-slim-7mm-280-84-ebuyer-using-10-code-1242457

Do they deliver to ROI ?
I thought amazon wouldn't deliver electronics to us

AlmightyCushion

opinion guy wrote: »

Do they deliver to ROI ?
I thought amazon wouldn't deliver electronics to us

Amazon definitely do. Not too sure about eBuyer. They certainly used to although I think that may have changed.

Sad Professor

Hogzy wrote: »

Eh, Is anyone else out there completely turned off by the fact that the SSD and ram cannot be upgraded.

What if the SSD fails out of the standard warranty period? Apple will charge a bomb to replace it.

Then you bring it back to them and quote the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. Or buy Applecare.

In any case, it seems it will be possible to replace the SSD.

And in 3yrs time 8gb of ram will be considered basic i would imagine.

If you think 8GB isn't enough then BTO it with 16GB.

quad_red

Sad Professor wrote: »

The lack of expandability doesn't bother me that much. At least there isn't some crappy unreliable HDD in there, which is why I wouldn't touch the first-gen Air. In fact, apart from the fan, there's no moving parts at all. I'd imagine the percentage of MacBook users who install extra RAM is fairly low anyway.

I would doubt that. Everyone I know who has a macbook/macbook pro has extended it's lifespan with more RAM and a bigger hard drive.

This is just ****

Hogzy

Sad Professor wrote: »

Then you bring it back to them and quote the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act. Or buy Applecare.

In any case, it seems it will be possible to replace the SSD.

If you think 8GB isn't enough then BTO it with 16GB.

If hardware fails outside the warranty period then legislation such as the SOGS act won't bring much satisfaction.

Apple care is very expensive considering what it is.

A hell of a lot of people I know upgrade their ram and hdd on their laptops, it gives the laptop a further boost of life and keeps you from upgrading for another year or two.

Sad Professor

Hogzy wrote: »

If hardware fails outside the warranty period then legislation such as the SOGS act won't bring much satisfaction.

Yes, it will. That's the law. The seller is responsible. The SoG Act will cover you for at least 3 years.

Hogzy

Sad Professor wrote: »

Hogzy wrote: »

If hardware fails outside the warranty period then legislation such as the SOGS act won't bring much satisfaction.

Yes, it will. That's the law. The seller is responsible. The SoG Act will cover you for at least 3 years.

I'm a trainee solicitor and everything you have said here is absolute nonsense, it's quite clear you do not know the law in this area.
Have a look at the link I copied below, also have a good look at the act you're claiming you know so much about. There is absolutely nothing about a 3 year warranty on laptops or ANY goods for that matter.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1980/en/act/pub/0016/sec0012.html#sec12

Sad Professor

Relax!

You're right, it doesn't anything about 3 years. I never claimed that it did. It says a "reasonable" period. And 3 years is a reasonable amount of time for a laptop to last.

thecommander

Sad Professor wrote: »

And 3 years is a reasonable amount of time for a laptop to last.

It's quite subjective, are there any cases in Ireland that have gone the distance?

Sad Professor

It usually doesn't go to court. The seller will just replace/repair the item after they receive the claim.

Apple acknowledge on their own website that as a seller they are required by European law to cover products for at least 2 years and longer in Ireland.

http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

ancientoracle

Sad Professor wrote: »

It usually doesn't go to court. The seller will just replace/repair the item after they receive the claim.

Apple acknowledge on their own website that as a seller they are required by European law to cover products for at least 2 years and longer in Ireland.

http://www.apple.com/ie/legal/statutory-warranty/

I know across Europe the law states 2 years, but that doesn't apply to Ireland. I looked through the look you provided and couldn't find anything about the 'longer in Ireland' part. Although yes the SOGS act does provide coverage for a reasonable amount of time, and IMHO all goods should be covered for at least 2 years.

Sad Professor

It's in the footnotes:

Some EU member states, including Finland, Ireland, UK, Netherlands and Sweden, have a claim period that is longer than 2 years from date of delivery

Yes, as I've pointed out many times, the 2 years part of the EU Directive was never translated into Irish law. That's because Irish law already provides better protection.

jenno86

AFAIK There was an EU directive that covered longer than the Irish act. But I don't think it was transposed into Irish law.

Sad Professor

jenno86 wrote: »

AFAIK There was an EU directive that covered longer than the Irish act. But I don't think it was transposed into Irish law.

No, as I said above, by not setting a time frame, Irish law provides better protection.

Personally, I wish they had added the 2 year part in. It would mean less protection, but at least it would be clear. As it stands, there is a lot of confusion amongst consumers, with most under the mistaken impression that the manufacturer's warranty is the only comeback they have.

Amalgam

On a mass production level, the price between soldered and unsoldered RAM would be negligible.

How can this play into the company's favour over the next year or so if problems arise..

Extra risk for the consumer and the company, for different reasons.

No problem with the laptops overall, lovely items, but still, bloody hell..

conor.hogan.2

Sad Professor wrote: »

That's because Irish law already provides better protection.

Have you ever used this "against" Apple? How did it work out? What sort of things does it cover? Better than Applecare?

Sad Professor

No, I've never tried to get anything repaired under consumer law. But based on anecdotal evidence, I get the impression that it's a pain the arse. Especially if you are dealing with some poor fool in a call centre in India. And in the case of Apple, there's also the dual relationship: they are both the manufacturer and the seller, and it's easy for them to act dumb and say "sorry, sir, your warranty is expired". You would almost be better off buying from a bricks-and-mortar reseller who you can walk back into. They probably won't be anymore receptive, quite the contrary, but at least your relationship with them is clear.

As for AppleCare, outside of the US the biggest advantage of getting it is the the convenience and the telephone support. You won't have to threaten Apple with a small claims court and get passed on to several supervisors, etc, to get them to repair your machine. Consumer law covers the same things as AppleCare for the most part: manufacturing defects. Having said that, if you look that page I linked to, Apple are a bit sneaky in differentiating between defects present at the time of purchase and ones that develop later. While Apple are probably being true to the letter of the law, I assume legal precedent and common sense means that a judge won't ask you to prove that your logic board was faulty when you bought it.

Another advantage of AppleCare is that Apple will sometimes overlook user inflicted damage.

conor.hogan.2

Cheers, I rang Apple support out of warranty and they were very helpful but this was only for a laptop charger so not very applicable to bigger problems.

Sad Professor

Did they replace it? Apple are generally supposed to be pretty good for replacing chargers out of warranty, especially if they pose a fire risk. Although you would probably need to bring it into them or a service provider.

conor.hogan.2

Yeah the replaced it with no cost to me.

Courier to the door to deliver and collect (I wasn't there so they just delivered and left the old one though)

The new ones (the slick but rip prone ones) are always ripping/fraying apparently so I did not need to show it to anyone.

opinion guy

One thing about Apple also - they are conscious of repeat customers. I was having trouble with courier pickup of unwanted iphone. On the phone to apple and they said to me 'oh we see you've been a good customer over the years - just pop it in the post yourself and send us the bill'

This was after they'd already organised a courier (who was **** but presumably it cost apple)

Anyhow long and short of this is - if I was not getting satisfaction from them on an issue, I'd point out my purchasing history and ask how they feel about keeping my repeat business

Zapp Brannigan

The new magsafe adapters are like the old ones for macbooks, so the cable runs perpendicular to the adapter, I don't like it.

Saw the retina yesterday and it is amazing looking. The system is lightning quick, had logic up and running ready to edit a track in about 8 seconds. Unreal!

Also about the Applecare, I buy it on my machines purely because it's less hassle and the service you get is amazing (it helps that I live in a country where there is an Apple store so there's no shipping involved).

conor.hogan.2

Zapp Brannigan wrote: »

The new magsafe adapters are like the old ones for macbooks, so the cable runs perpendicular to the adapter, I don't like it.

Yeah those ones, form over practicality. They fray very easy and are just awkward.

opinion guy

For anyone that is wondering - I popped into CompuB near Grafton Street today and they don't have the retina mac in yet - they said maybe next week

Greentree_uk

opinion guy wrote: »

For anyone that is wondering - I popped into CompuB near Grafton Street today and they don't have the retina mac in yet - they said maybe next week

Retina will be in dundrum

opinion guy

Greentree_uk wrote: »

Retina will be in dundrum

I'm sure it will be in all their stores???
You confuse me

Jarren

opinion guy wrote: »

I'm sure it will be in all their stores???
You confuse me

They actually say only in Dundrum store


http://compub.com/

opinion guy

Jarren wrote: »

They actually say only in Dundrum store


http://compub.com/

Oh right- maybe thats just tomorrow. They told me they would have it anyhow in town.

I notice by the way from your link - 10% off all macs in compub Dundrum tomorrow !

Sad Professor

Yeah, I assume they mean Dundrum will be the first to have them.

Is anyone considering getting one the new Retina Pros btw?

tylerdurden94

Sad Professor wrote: »

Yeah, I assume they mean Dundrum will be the first to have them.

Is anyone considering getting one the new Retina Pros btw?

I'm certainly leaning towards it, wonder how many they will have in Dundrum tomorrow? I see in the link it says 10% off all Macs is there anyway they would do that for the new one on its first day of launch?

opinion guy

tylerdurden94 wrote: »

I'm certainly leaning towards it, wonder how many they will have in Dundrum tomorrow? I see in the link it says 10% off all Macs is there anyway they would do that for the new one on its first day of launch?

Thats what they are advertising.

If they won't give it to you at that price kick up a stink about false advertising. Take a screen shot and a print out with you

tylerdurden94

opinion guy wrote: »

Thats what they are advertising.

If they won't give it to you at that price kick up a stink about false advertising. Take a screen shot and a print out with you

According to their Twitter page its only a display Retina but you can pay & order, just tweeted them asking is the 10% off inclusive of the new model.

Do compub/any other premium apple resellers do student discounts?

Duggys Housemate

I was going to get one but unhappy with the soldering, thinking of getting more memory and an SSD for my 2010 model.

Sad Professor

Apple are already selling it with 10-12 percent off to students.

tylerdurden94

Sad Professor wrote: »

Apple are already selling it with 10-12 percent off to students.

I'm not actually a student but was thinking I could ask a friend to purchase it for me.

Also quick question, how reliable is Mac2Sell now that there has been new releases? I've input my details and it's showing up as being worth €1,220.

Elessar

It's getting harder and harder to quench my desire for this machine, despite its expense.

I have a mid-2010 MBP 15" and this is better in every way. From benchmarks it's roughly 3x as fast, at least 2x as powerful GPU (the 330m could never really play modern games at decent levels), better screen, thinner and lighter, USB 3, faster and larger SSD than even the SSD I have in this MBP etc. Basically a significant upgrade, even windows machines can't touch it atm. I'm delighted to finally see a Class 1 GPU in there, it's mid range but upper-mid range; the Alienware M14x gaming machine has the same GPU but is much thicker!

I use my MBP all the time and it is a desktop replacement. Mostly web surfing, but the odd game and a lot of high def video watching and downloading large 10GB+ files off usenet (i.e. a lot of I/O repairing/unpacking operations on the disk).

I was all poised to spend the same amount on a Clevo high end laptop with top end, upgradeable GPU and CPU. Dunno what to do!

unklerosco

Elessar wrote: »

I use my MBP all the time and it is a desktop replacement. Mostly web surfing, but the odd game and a lot of high def video watching and downloading large 10GB+ files off usenet (i.e. a lot of I/O repairing/unpacking operations on the disk).

I was all poised to spend the same amount on a Clevo high end laptop with top end, upgradeable GPU and CPU. Dunno what to do!

Would this not be overkill for your needs? Also, as a dekstop replacement does the size matter that much?

On another topic, these things are gonna be a nightmare to sell on the secondhand market in years to come... Buying one without a warranty would be risky business seeing as they are near enough impossible to repair... But sure that's years away, I do see them dropping in value a fair bit due to that single fact.

Sad Professor

I think it's exaggerating a little to say they are impossible to repair. The RAM is soldered to the motherboard, yes, but how often does Apple's RAM fail? The battery is replaceable, as is the SSD. Apple won't sell you the parts to do it yourself, but that doesn't mean you can't get them elsewhere. So while it might be expensive, those components are replaceable.

Some of Apple's previous notebooks were far harder to repair. I had an old iBook G4 which you basically had to completely disassemble to get at the hard drive.

The main issue with the Retina Pro is the RAM. You have to buy it upfront and pay Apple prices in order to future proof the machine. So for that reason, waiting a while until there's a cheaper Retina Pro in a year or two's time is probably a good idea.

unklerosco

Is the battery not glued onto the chassis? Wouldn't say it's too easy to get out if that's the case. Proprietary HD's aint gonna be cheap. The screen is one piece, replacing that would be fairly pricey... Fair enough, the chances of something going wrong are fairly slim but there is the possibility and the costs for repair wouldn't be cheap... Anyways, tis not a huge issue... I doubt anyone that buys this will go for just the std warranty, there'll be plenty of applecare warranties purchased with them.....

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before but is there a reason for the rather huge difference in price between here and the USA? I know there's always been differences but €500+ is a heck of a difference...

Elessar

unklerosco wrote: »

Would this not be overkill for your needs? Also, as a dekstop replacement does the size matter that much?

Overkill. I dunno, is it?

I guess in a sense it is, but if you were to configure the old MBP to a similar spec to the new MBR it would cost the same or more. I do need a decent GPU though, and the screen would be brilliant for watching HD movies, as well as the apparently great speakers (ones in the current MBP are poor by any standards). The more I think about it the less of an overkill and the more of a must have upgrade it seems. I don't normally want to, I kept my first core2duo MBP for 4 years and would have kept this one had Apple not released this beauty and changed the face of computing yet again.

Size is important to me yeah, don't think I could go smaller, I was actually hoping to get a next-gen 17" MBP (or the Clevo) but they've been discontinued. The level of portability to me extends only to the confines of my house.

unklerosco

Would the screen really make any difference to HD Movies? Is a 1080p screen not the best way to watch a full HD movie, any larger and the movie has to be scaled for the resolution.. Or has Apple built in a fancy scaler for the MBP(I assume thats how it deals with the resolution anyway). But surely a 1080p movie is gonna look now sharper than it would on a full HD panel... Obviously the new display has great black/contrast levels which I suppose is the biggest + when it comes to watching movies etc.

Sad Professor

VAT accounts for most of the price difference between here and the US.

Re battery, Apple or an AASP can replace it. The Irish prices aren't up yet but the French site says 200 euro.

conor.hogan.2

Sad Professor wrote: »

You have to buy it upfront and pay Apple prices in order to future proof the machine. So for that reason, waiting a while until there's a cheaper Retina Pro in a year or two's time is probably a good idea.

That is 2 major problems though:

You have to buy more so it won't be sluggish in 2 years
and
You have to pay Apples prices of Ram which is far from cheap. I am glad I do not need a machine now.

They have a really really unhealthy obsession with thin laptops to the detriment of other more important things.

Zapp Brannigan

For me 16gigs of RAM is c.$180 CAD including shipping and import taxes. From Apple it's 200 dollars all in, which is very reasonable.

opinion guy

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

That is 2 major problems though:

You have to buy more so it won't be sluggish in 2 years
and
You have to pay Apples prices of Ram which is far from cheap. I am glad I do not need a machine now.

They have a really really unhealthy obsession with thin laptops to the detriment of other more important things.

Well I agree with your first two points, I can't agree with the unhealthy obsession business.

I think you have to agree they've certainly pushed on laptop tech beyond what anyone else in the market were doing. Even this new RMBP - it may not suit everyone, that's why they are keeping the legacy model, but it does seriously up the ante for the ultrabook market.

Apple will refine the RMBP and Lenovo, Sony etc will come up with different strategies to compete. Who knows perhaps by the time Apple phase out the legacy MBP, components will have shrunk enough that they will be able to add back in user changeable RAM.

If Apple thought they could get away with throwing out ODD, ethernet, and user changeable RAM and HDD they would have done it. They obviously knew they wouldnt' get away with that - at least not in one go. So they kept the legacy model on. I actually wonder when that decision was made and do they pay attention to chatter on sites like macrumours.

Wibbs

maggy_thatcher wrote: »

My current MBP is getting a little long in the tooth (it's an Oct'06 model), so an upgrade is needed soon, but I'm really unsure about spending that kind of money.

Get one of the just gone end of line MBP's MT. You'll get a discount, or should for an "old" machine, or keep an eye on the refurbished section on apple's website and get one there. While I get the various reasonings behind it(most don't upgrade/sell it as a consumer item/makes it cheaper and thinner etc), for a power user it's a bit of a pain. Good for Apples coffers of course as power users will now upgrade more as it will be a case of having to. They're extending the iphone model across as much of the range as they can. Sealed unit, increasingly app store software installations(no dvd drive etc, which I predicted a year ago), no third party upgrades inc users having a go out of warranty, more control of the platform across the board. I personally don't like the direction they're heading, never mind the apple markup on such "innovations".

I've been a mac user for nearly 20 years through thick and thin for biz and pleasure and I well know my way around them, but TBH I could see myself going over to the "dark side" down the line on the hardware front anyway when my late model MBP goes bang(very nice machine BTW). Then again I'm not so enamored with their OS "upgrades" either. Lion is slower than SL on the same machine. Uses more battery on portables too. It's gui has taken a turn for the daft in a couple of places too. The by default lack of scroll bars an obvious one(oh look the iphone model again). Yes of course one can switch it off and switch off the reverse scrolling thingy(for how long one wonders), but while a good idea for the restricted real estate of a handheld, it's daft for the rest of the range and how the feck it got past some obvious questions is beyond me. If someone has to ask why, I'd suggest applying for a job in apples current GUI dept.

In short for me personally these would be a great AIR replacement at a (much)lower pricepoint, but a pretty lacklustre and empty replacement for a pro mac portable. All my humble of course and we'll see how it plays out down the line.