Trap Watch

Xavi6

The 'Is he done?' thread was locked but the merits of discussing Trap's team selections and decisions are very much worthy given he's around for the long haul now.

If you didn't hear Off The Ball tonight then I recommend getting the podcast as there's some very good points made by Ken Early and Dion Fanning in light of the latest press conference with Trap.

Cliff notes -

- Trap brought on Cox because he believes that Cox was more likely to score from the left wing, yet Cox told journalists after the game that his job was to help Stephen Ward.

- It wasn't the right situation for James McClean, despite the fact that he excelled when thrown into the Premiership. Given how Andrews was able to get on the end of balls into the box late on then having a winger who can deliver balls rather than a lumbering striker out wide should have been the obvious switch. Or at least a decision between McClean and Hunt.

- Trap said that some of the substitutions were made with the next game in mind, i.e. the decision to take off Keane. This implies that Keane is still seen as the focal point of the attract, yet Fanning and Early believe Keane doesn't fit the system and leaves us playing with effectively ten men a lot of the time. As he did against Croatia. Richard Sadlier said he'd drop him as well.

- Walters will be the likely replacement for Doyle but we'll still have the same problem of Keane if he disappears again.

I'm not the biggest fan of Trap and think he got as easy a ride as possible in the qualifiers which is an often overlooked caveat. I don't believe that he deserved a two year contract before the tournament, and his decisions the other night would back that up.

Let's see how he goes with the line up for Spain...

Liam O

Xavi6 wrote: »

The 'Is he done?' thread was locked but the merits of discussing Trap's team selections and decisions are very much worthy given he's around for the long haul now.

If you didn't hear Off The Ball tonight then I recommend getting the podcast as there's some very good points made by Ken Early and Dion Fanning in light of the latest press conference with Trap.

Cliff notes -

- Trap brought on Cox because he believes that Cox was more likely to score from the left wing, yet Cox told journalists after the game that his job was to help Stephen Ward.

- It wasn't the right situation for James McClean, despite the fact that he excelled when thrown into the Premiership. Given how Andrews was able to get on the end of balls into the box late on then having a winger who can deliver balls rather than a lumbering striker out wide should have been the obvious switch. Or at least a decision between McClean and Hunt.

- Trap said that some of the substitutions were made with the next game in mind, i.e. the decision to take off Keane. This implies that Keane is still seen as the focal point of the attract, yet Fanning and Early believe Keane doesn't fit the system and leaves us playing with effectively ten men a lot of the time. As he did against Croatia. Richard Sadlier said he'd drop him as well.

- Walters will be the likely replacement for Doyle but we'll still have the same problem of Keane if he disappears again.

I'm not the biggest fan of Trap and think he got as easy a ride as possible in the qualifiers which is an often overlooked caveat. I don't believe that he deserved a two year contract before the tournament, and his decisions the other night would back that up.

Let's see how he goes with the line up for Spain...

it will be interesting, Cox on the left is one of the most ridiculous things I've seen in my life, terrible subs and I'd argue that Doyle was a bad choice to start against Croatia...

blinding

Xavi6 wrote: »

The 'Is he done?' thread was locked but the merits of discussing Trap's team selections and decisions are very much worthy given he's around for the long haul now.

If you didn't hear Off The Ball tonight then I recommend getting the podcast as there's some very good points made by Ken Early and Dion Fanning in light of the latest press conference with Trap.

Cliff notes -

- Trap brought on Cox because he believes that Cox was more likely to score from the left wing, yet Cox told journalists after the game that his job was to help Stephen Ward.

- It wasn't the right situation for James McClean, despite the fact that he excelled when thrown into the Premiership. Given how Andrews was able to get on the end of balls into the box late on then having a winger who can deliver balls rather than a lumbering striker out wide should have been the obvious switch. Or at least a decision between McClean and Hunt.

- Trap said that some of the substitutions were made with the next game in mind, i.e. the decision to take off Keane. This implies that Keane is still seen as the focal point of the attract, yet Fanning and Early believe Keane doesn't fit the system and leaves us playing with effectively ten men a lot of the time. As he did against Croatia. Richard Sadlier said he'd drop him as well.

- Walters will be the likely replacement for Doyle but we'll still have the same problem of Keane if he disappears again.

I'm not the biggest fan of Trap and think he got as easy a ride as possible in the qualifiers which is an often overlooked caveat. I don't believe that he deserved a two year contract before the tournament, and his decisions the other night would back that up.

Let's see how he goes with the line up for Spain...

What management experience have Fanning and Early. Not that I am too happy with Traps one trick pony attitude with the Irish team.

Cox actually wasn't the worst the other night despite being out of position. Trap will stick to his system, that's what got the team to the Euros, can't see him mixing it up now too much.

Ken Early is like a broken record re Trap anyway. His opinion doesn't really matter.

If Ireland manage a point in the last 2 games it will be surprising.

Xavi6

blinding wrote: »

What management experience have Fanning and Early.

The same as ourselves posting on this forum obviously but it's interesting to hear the thoughts and opinions of people who are around the players and manager regularly as opposed to just us watching it on the tele.

LuckyLloyd

Ken Early being critical of Trapp? Well I never...

This type of discussion is irrelevant by the way. We aren't a Premiership club that might sack a manager at any time. Trapp WILL be the coach until November 2013 at the earliest. Between now and then he will do things his own way.

The critics can continue pointing out every little error until then, but it is an utterly pointless exercise.

Once we have no mathematical possibility of Brazil qualification (or we've been eliminated from finals of same) it will be relevant to assess how to rip up his framework and do things differently.

Finally, in the context of Irish football's historical record and available players during the last four years, it was ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE for Trapp to be extended for the next campaign. Suggestions to the contrary are incredibly naive.

tigger123

A large part of the responsibility for what happened on Sunday night is down to the players, and how they performed once they crossed the white line.

And Trap bears some responsibility too, I accept that.

But we were simply outclassed and outplayed the other night, and we have , iirc, 8 of our starting 11 playing in the Championship, that's how thin our squad is.

James McClean =/= Deigo Maradona... kinda reminds of the whole 'is Andy Reid equal to, or better than Zinedene Zidane' debate that raged a few years ago.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Ken Early being critical of Trapp? Well I never...

This type of discussion is irrelevant by the way. We aren't a Premiership club that might sack a manager at any time. Trapp WILL be the coach until November 2013 at the earliest. Between now and then he will do things his own way.

The critics can continue pointing out every little error until then, but it is an utterly pointless exercise.

Once we have no mathematical possibility of Brazil qualification (or we've been eliminated from finals of same) it will be relevant to assess how to rip up his framework and do things differently.

Finally, in the context of Irish football's historical record and available players during the last four years, it was ABSOLUTELY APPROPRIATE for Trapp to be extended for the next campaign. Suggestions to the contrary are incredibly naive.

So for the next two years we just sit around, watch the games and pass no comment or judgement because 'that's just the way it is, tough shit?".

Yeah that's not going to work for me, sorry.

For anyone who doesn't know who Ken Early is. I wouldn't be Roy Keane's biggest fan but he fairly shoots Early down in this short inverview. How he gets a job on radio is beyond me.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/the-roy-keane-and-ken-early-interview/

Benimar

tigger123 wrote: »

But we were simply outclassed and outplayed the other night, and we have , iirc, 8 of our starting 11 playing in the Championship, that's how thin our squad is.

Only ONE of the starting XI was playing in the Championship at the end of last season - St Ledger.

Haven't the time now to post in detail but the decision to play Cox on the left was one of the most head scratching decisions I've seen in a while.

G.K.

If you don't count Wolves, there are only 3 in the squad.

Forde, McShane, Sledge

Banjaxed82

rarnes1 wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't know who Ken Early is. I wouldn't be Roy Keane's biggest fan but he fairly shoots Early down in this short inverview. How he gets a job on radio is beyond me.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/the-roy-keane-and-ken-early-interview/

That's harsh. Early's pretty Insightful and makes a lot of good points. But above that, he's a bit of craic on off the ball and his deadpan delivery is great.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

So for the next two years we just sit around, watch the games and pass no comment or judgement because 'that's just the way it is, tough shit?".

Yeah that's not going to work for me, sorry.

You can pass whatever comments you want, but it's a pointless exercise. The landscape in terms of national playing pool will be very different in 18 - 24 months time than it is now. As such, crying over what Trapp isn't using now is kind of pointless. Will Hoolahan be worthy of selection in two years time? Will Ireland have been welcomed into the fold? Will Robbie Brady be playing in the premiership week in, week out? And so on, and so on.

Bleat away all you like, it won't change anything. It will become a relevant and interesting conversation in due course, but not until his current deal is finished.

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't know who Ken Early is. I wouldn't be Roy Keane's biggest fan but he fairly shoots Early down in this short inverview. How he gets a job on radio is beyond me.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/the-roy-keane-and-ken-early-interview/

BUT HE'S GREAT CRAIC!!!! :rolleyes:

_blank_

Hoolahan?

You know he's 30 yeah?

tolosenc

Big Trap fan, but I have to say that his man management, in terms of Foley and McLean at least, should be called into question. Very unprofessional. If he doesn't change things up for the World Cup, then I'll probably start becoming a dissenter.

Xavi6

Des wrote: »

Hoolahan?

You know he's 30 yeah?

11 years almost since his Shels debut :eek:

LuckyLloyd

Des wrote: »

Hoolahan?

You know he's 30 yeah?

Yes.

What is your question?

Big Trap fan, but I have to say that his man management, in terms of Foley and McLean at least, should be called into question. Very unprofessional. If he doesn't change things up for the World Cup, then I'll probably start becoming a dissenter.

Changes, no changes; mistakes, no mistakes; dissent, no dissent - it doesn't matter in this case. This isn't an argument that needs to be won or lost because the future of the coach is know. He has one more full campaign after which he probably retires anyway given his age even if we qualified again and wanted to keep him.

The Irish Rugby situation is different because there is no fixed road ahead.

BraziliaNZ

I thought Doyle was one of the better performers, at least he held on to the ball for a bit here and there. Keane was anonymous but he's never going to be dropped. McClean looks like a solid strong lad, I'd like to see him there instead of McGeady, maybe put Duff on the right, but it's never going to happen . A heroic defeat at best on Thursday but the reality is this is like Bohemians playing Barcelona.

I would say McClean will feature quite alot in the next campaign if he keeps performing well for his club.

noodler

I would hope at least 4 or 5 new faces will be in the squad for the World Cup games.

It doesn't matter who our manager is or what players he chose for Thursday - any Irish manager would have to try and park the bus.

That being said - if we concede early in our system then we are screwed. If we had kept the croatians out for half and hour I think the game would have been so much more interesting as they slowly get frustrated and we start coming more and more into the game.

We must keep the Spanish out for the first 30 minutes.

LuckyLloyd

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I thought Doyle was one of the better performers, at least he held on to the ball for a bit here and there. Keane was anonymous but he's never going to be dropped. McClean looks like a solid strong lad, I'd like to see him there instead of McGeady, maybe put Duff on the right, but it's never going to happen . A heroic defeat at best on Thursday but the reality is this is like Bohemians playing Barcelona.

Nah, it's like Wolves / Aston Villa playing Barcelona. You have a chance if every bounce goes your way; you play to 100%; they have an off day.

We have a squad of good pros who mostly play at the top level albeit for teams who are nowhere near good enough to get into the Champions League. We're up against, respectively:

- a squad who has 60% of players on the level our squad exists on; and 40% of a Champions League type quality;
- a squad entirely made up of Champions League type quality including some of the best players in the world;
- a squad of mostly Champions League quality without the elite stars at present;

People can scream and cry about our selection, but the other options won't go that far to closing the disparity involved in each tie.

born2bwild

rarnes1 wrote: »

For anyone who doesn't know who Ken Early is. I wouldn't be Roy Keane's biggest fan but he fairly shoots Early down in this short inverview. How he gets a job on radio is beyond me.

http://www.newstalk.ie/2012/sport/the-roy-keane-and-ken-early-interview/

God, what a pair. I would not like to meet either of them.

gosplan

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

People can scream and cry about our selection, but the other options won't go that far to closing the disparity involved in each tie.

Complaining about the selection is basically criticism for dummies. It's what dunphy does because your average housewife can understand it and it's what plain old begrudging posters with no real knowledge of the game have done about every Irish football and rugby team since boards began and they never have to say 'well maybe Andy Reid isn't what we thought he was' because they've just moved onto the next glaring omission.

I'm enjoying this thread though.

Magic Pips

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nah, it's like Wolves / Aston Villa playing Barcelona. You have a chance if every bounce goes your way; you play to 100%; they have an off day.

We have a squad of good pros who mostly play at the top level albeit for teams who are nowhere near good enough to get into the Champions League. We're up against, respectively:

- a squad who has 60% of players on the level our squad exists on; and 40% of a Champions League type quality;
- a squad entirely made up of Champions League type quality including some of the best players in the world;
- a squad of mostly Champions League quality without the elite stars at present;

People can scream and cry about our selection, but the other options won't go that far to closing the disparity involved in each tie.

This is my big gripe. We are embracing mediocrity. McClean/McCarthy/Reid not world beaters, but players that can play technically good football (albeit reid is a fat lazy ****e - im talking about ability).

These are the players we should have our kids/young players looking to emulate, not andrews and whelan. By accepting mediocrity now we damage and limit the ability of future footballers.

monkey9

I enjoy the Off The Ball show as they have good guests on and i don't mind Ken Earley at all. But one thing that does my head in about him is when he asks someone a question and leaves the answer hanging, waiting for someone to answer it and making them guess for ages, like he's holding a lecture or something!! Just hurry up and answer you own question ffs!!

Orando Broom

Magic Pips wrote: »

This is my big gripe. We are embracing mediocrity. McClean/McCarthy/Reid not world beaters, but players that can play technically good football (albeit reid is a fat lazy ****e - im talking about ability).

These are the players we should have our kids/young players looking to emulate, not andrews and whelan. By accepting mediocrity now we damage and limit the ability of future footballers.

I'd like my kids to be disciplined and be able to follow instructions too.

Andy Reid was an ego who thought the squad would revolve around him. With Trap your work ethic and discipline and ability to be a team player counts.

There is more to influencing children that just a wand of a left foot. If you are looking for soccer players for children to look up to cite, Iniesta and Messi. They have everything, technique, ability, skill discipline, a work ethic, no ego and team spirit.

Magic Pips

Orando Broom wrote: »

...to look up to cite, Iniesta and Messi. They have everything, technique, ability, skill discipline, a work ethic, no ego and team spirit.

I did specify ability in the reid case. But do you think iniesta/messi are borne from watching players like andrews and whelan.

BTW i've a lot of time for their work ethic, and mixed into a team who tries to play football could work.

We dont try and play football, so when we are two goals down its game over.

LuckyLloyd

Magic Pips wrote: »

This is my big gripe. We are embracing mediocrity. McClean/McCarthy/Reid not world beaters, but players that can play technically good football (albeit reid is a fat lazy ****e - im talking about ability).

These are the players we should have our kids/young players looking to emulate, not andrews and whelan. By accepting mediocrity now we damage and limit the ability of future footballers.

I want out kids/young players to see a team of Irishmen giving it socks in a major championship, being roared on win / lose / draw by thousands of their countrymen from the stands. I want them to see that, and realise that good things can come out of this country and we can do anything if we set out mind to it.

If it requires "archaic" football to achieve that, fair enough.

I think that is a far better marker for our young people than trying to play good football and never getting to the big game. Irish football spent the 70's / first half of the 80's and a very depressing two years in the last decade trying to do just that.

Father Damo

Tough one really. This only one of a handful of matches were we showed any type of fluid play and attack, and failed. tbh the only matches against good opposition I recall us playing utterly defensive, negative football was France pt 1 and Russia away. We lost against France and narrowly drew Russia. I can see a backs to the wall, frustrate Spain, I dont even know if we will attack or he will take a gamble on a draw (lets be honest, Trap knows Italy probably better than Ireland, if he reckons a scoreless draw is the way to go, thats the way to go)

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I want out kids/young players to see a team of Irishmen giving it socks in a major championship, being roared on win / lose / draw by thousands of their countrymen from the stands. I want them to see that, and realise that good things can come out of this country and we can do anything if we set out mind to it.

If it requires "archaic" football to achieve that, fair enough.

I think that is a far better marker for our young people than trying to play good football and never getting to the big game. Irish football spent the 70's / first half of the 80's and a very depressing two years in the last decade trying to do just that.

Archaic football achieved sweet feck all the other night and our kids didn't see anything resembling 'Irishmen giving it socks', hence people rightly questioning the manager who put that team out there.

Father Damo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

.

I think that is a far better marker for our young people than trying to play good football and never getting to the big game. ....... very depressing two years in the last decade trying to do just that.

Did we? Im not sure we had any tactic at all under Stan tbh. It was planless go out there kick it around and get some goals if we can with little direction or specifics, Carsley himself said that vs Wales they were given some very basic orders along the lines of the above.

Orando Broom

Xavi6 wrote: »

Archaic football achieved sweet feck all the other night and our kids didn't see anything resembling 'Irishmen giving it socks', hence people rightly questioning the manager who put that team out there.

See this is the thing that was not a vintage Irish performance. It was a total non-performance.

We did not do a single thing right that we normally do. we were abject in the basics of clearing our lines and playing the wrong ball in the middle. We gave away two if not three balls in midfield, something we never do. when we cede possession it is usually high up the pitch from one of Dunne's raked diagonal passes out to the wingers. Without being too harsh on him it is usually McGeady that was the cause of the loss because he tried sometihng. Sunday night we were couching up possession thirty yards from our goal. The Jelavic goal was a result of one such cough-up.

If Ireland was sucker punched 1-0 after a titanic defensive reguard (see Russia without the nil) action then you could question the system but we were really poor defensively. We looked nervous and uncomfortable. Given in the tunnel looked like he was about to chuck his lunch. I think Ireland got serious stage fright. There was zero intent or intensity. I think this time they were expected this time (unlike other years) to produce a performance, they didn't. Maybe now that they are all but out (in the minds of any one who watches football) they'll shock the life out of Spain with a performance of committment and intensity.

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Archaic football achieved sweet feck all the other night and our kids didn't see anything resembling 'Irishmen giving it socks', hence people rightly questioning the manager who put that team out there.

Archaic football got us to the other night. And Keith Andrews was an Irishman giving it socks - coincidentally one of the players that your ilk would drop immediately if given a chance.

Question all you like. He got us in the big game and got his contract extension and will retire one of life's winners when it expires - further qualification or no.

LuckyLloyd

Orando Broom wrote: »

See this is the thing that was not a vintage Irish performance. It was a total non-performance.

We did not do a single thing right that we normally do. we were abject in the basics of clearing our lines and playing the wrong ball in the middle. We gave away two if not three balls in midfield, something we never do. when we cede possession it is usually high up the pitch from one of Dunne's raked diagonal passes out to the wingers. Without being too harsh on him it is usually McGeady that was the cause of the loss because he tried sometihng. Sunday night we were couching up possession thirty yards from our goal. The Jelavic goal was a result of one such cough-up.

If Ireland was sucker punched 1-0 after a titanic defensive reguard (see Russia without the nil) action then you could question the system but we were really poor defensively. We looked nervous and uncomfortable. Given in the tunnel looked like he was about to chuck his lunch. I think Ireland got serious stage fright. There was zero intent or intensity. I think this time they were expected this time (unlike other years) to produce a performance, they didn't. Maybe now that they are all but out (in the minds of any one who watches football) they'll shock the life out of Spain with a performance of committment and intensity.

The best 120 minutes produced by an Irish team in the 10 years since Asia was in Paris when everyone and their mother had written us off.

Logically, we have no hope whatsoever on Thursday. So hopefully some magic can happen again. I live in hope...

Orando Broom

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The best 120 minutes produced by an Irish team in the 10 years since Asia was in Paris when everyone and their mother had written us off.

Logically, we have no hope whatsoever on Thursday. So hopefully some magic can happen again. I live in hope...

Absolutely. It's knockout football from now on. It's the end of the road for Dunne, Keane, Duff and Given. This is their chance to shake a few trees.

Xavi6

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Archaic football got us to the other night. And Keith Andrews was an Irishman giving it socks - coincidentally one of the players that your ilk would drop immediately if given a chance.

Not necessarily, Andrews is the sort of player needed to allow the more creative talents to flourish. I wouldn't however play him AND Whelan in the same side.

Also, pointing to one player who can hold his head up high just reinforces my point.

Question all you like. He got us in the big game and got his contract extension and will retire one of life's winners when it expires - further qualification or no.

For some of us what happens in the big game is just as, if not more, important than just getting there.

Francie Barrett

For a supposedly great manager (who we are paying through the nose for!), Trap got eaten alive by Bilic tactically. Before the game, this is what Bilic had to say about us.

"On Sunday we will fight for every ball and for every inch of the pitch. I don't see how Ireland can trouble us. Their football is very simple and not difficult to analyse."

It's clear that Bilic knew that our players would be up for this and that it would be a physical contest. He also knew the exact team that would line out and exactly how we would play. Bilic set out his stall perfectly.

From the first whistle, you saw the Croatian players playing a high line and pressing our defenders who dutifully panicked and hoofed the ball away. When we did play the long ball, the Croatian team (other than Modric) were all 6ft+, strong and quick and were easily able to overwhelm Keane and Doyle. What we desperately needed to do was to go to 451 and to sacrifice a striker to bring on a player who is comfortable on the ball. Hoolahan was the obvious choice, but barring that, Gibson might have done a job. Instead, we maintained our usual rigidity with frightened players either kicking the ball away or panicking and losing possession too easily.

I fully accept that in a major competition that we are going to have to play defensively. What kills me is that Trap seems to equate playing defensive with getting rid of the ball anytime we get near it. As the Croatian game showed, if we are up against a determined team with any kind of ability who can match us physically, we are going to get destroyed.

Renn

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Archaic football got us to the other night. And Keith Andrews was an Irishman giving it socks - coincidentally one of the players that your ilk would drop immediately if given a chance.

Question all you like. He got us in the big game and got his contract extension and will retire one of life's winners when it expires - further qualification or no.

It got Ireland there and prepared them for something entirely different. Apart from Russia the group wasn't that difficult. You would have to go back years to find a win in a competitive game vs a good team. Years. This team has decided to go backwards instead of forwards and the result of that is there for all to see.

Magic Pips

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

...your ilk would drop immediately if given a chance.

Question all you like. He got us in the big game and got his contract extension and will retire one of life's winners when it expires - further qualification or no.

I said they could work in a team built properly to play football, even if it was a plan B!??!!?!?

And for the record i think your ilk show blind loyalty and accept mediocrity.

Orando Broom

Renn wrote: »

It got Ireland there and prepared them for something entirely different. Apart from Russia the group wasn't that difficult. You would have to go back years to find a win in a competitive game vs a good team. Years. This team has decided to go backwards instead of forwards and the result of that is there for all to see.

So backwards was qualifying for the Euros? Ah here.

Orando Broom

Magic Pips wrote: »

I said they could work in a team built properly to play football, even if it was a plan B!??!!?!?

And for the record i think your ilk show blind loyalty and accept mediocrity.

Come off it. McCarthy blew qualification three times with a better squad, playing better football. credit where credit is due, in fairness.

LL is not showing blind loyalty. Just realism.

Renn

Renn wrote: »

It got Ireland there and prepared them for something entirely different. Apart from Russia the group wasn't that difficult. You would have to go back years to find a win in a competitive game vs a good team. Years. This team has decided to go backwards instead of forwards and the result of that is there for all to see.

Ireland have qualified for a tournament for the first time in 10 years, jumped way up the rankings which means a higher seeding for the next campaign.

How is this going backwards ?

Surely backwards would have been finishing 4th/5th in the qualifiers?

Renn

Orando Broom wrote: »

So backwards was qualifying for the Euros? Ah here.

Backwards was not allowing the team to play any football in a group that they could easily do so. To experiment a little. To try and not be ****ing predictable. At least they'll be able to do this for 2016 (well, I hope they'll do that...).

LuckyLloyd

Xavi6 wrote: »

Not necessarily, Andrews is the sort of player needed to allow the more creative talents to flourish. I wouldn't however play him AND Whelan in the same side.

Also, pointing to one player who can hold his head up high just reinforces my point.



For some of us what happens in the big game is just as, if not more, important than just getting there.

St. Ledger, Dunne and Doyle all played their hearts out too.

One can't exist without the other I'm afraid. Getting us there (and gaining a respectable standing in World Football again) has been achieved through consistent application of a system that gets the best out of our limited resources. You want to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

In any case, just like the Andy Reid rubbish from a few years back time will reveal all...

Francie Barrett

Orando Broom wrote: »

See this is the thing that was not a vintage Irish performance. It was a total non-performance.

We did not do a single thing right that we normally do.

I would argue that the players did try their best, but the Croatians simply didn't allow us to play our typical game.

SirDelboy18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

In any case, just like the Andy Reid rubbish from a few years back time will reveal all...

At the time Reid was playing great football and deserved to play. Just because he isn't playing to that standard currently doesn't take away from the fact that he once was and fully deserved to play.

Francie Barrett

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I would argue that the players did try their best, but the Croatians simply didn't allow us to play our typical game.

Croatia are a much better footballing side, simple as that and were much better on the night.

SirDelboy18

rarnes1 wrote: »

Croatia are a much better footballing side, simple as that and were much better on the night.

Because we refuse to play anything other than a very limiting system, simple as that.

Renn

rarnes1 wrote: »

Croatia are a much better footballing side, simple as that and were much better on the night.

When's the last time Ireland beat a much better footballing side in a competitive fixture? I'm going with 01/09/01 vs Netherlands.

Seaneh

People saying "qualifying is a big achievement for us" and using that as justification for Trap's "system".

You do realise we had one of the weakest groups in qualifying?

Besides Russia the best team was ****ing Armenia, a team made up of players who are mostly championship level with a few semi professionals and a ****ing amature Goal Keeper.

If we hadn't gotten to the play offs it would have been an unqualified disaster.

After that, we got the easiest draw in the playoffs, Estonia are about as good as Norn Iron, if we hadn't beaten them it would have been a disgrace.

Have some perspective.


The only time we played team of any quality in qualifiying in Russia they raped us at home and we were unbelieveably lucky to not concede about 5 in Russia.


Trap doesn't have a system, he never has, he's a dinosaur.