Trap Watch

Renn

Looks like he's still leaning towards blaming the players (if the paper's translation is true/if they actually made out what he was saying). Saying stuff like the team "could play with their eyes closed" before the tournament suggests to me that the guy believed his own hype - that his team were genuinely good defensively. If he looked at any of the games against the better sides he would have noticed quite the opposite and that none of this should come as a surprise to him.

Then again, he needs to say something to the media and maybe this is his easy option.

noodler

With his comments earlier this week about not knowing why the team seemed so nervous and conceded so early...I have to say they are all thoughts the majority of Ireland fans would have had.

In the press conference on Friday he even said that he, as manager, takes the responsibility.

Non-story to be honest - media chancing their arm.

Renn

More to do with the comment "could play with their eyes closed". I just think he saw this team as an actual solid team - but this was clearly bull as the qualifying campaign showed what this team is capable of doing vs decent opposition. Deluded far too many people going in to this tournament unfortunately.

Xavi6

His faith in Robbie Keane is admirable but ridiculous at this stage.

ctrl-alt-delete

Xavi6 wrote: »

His faith in Robbie Keane is admirable but ridiculous at this stage.

His system and his old reliable's, with the emphasis on old, have been shown up on a grand scale in this tournament.

It basically could not have gone any worse. The players with the most International experience and Trapattoni experience, for me, were the players who come out of this looking worse. Too many to mention, but we all know who they are by now.

I think it would have been the perfect time now, when a few of them should seriously be considering International retirement to change the whole set-up, which obviously will not happen now when the manager has already been signed up for another 2 years.

SirDelboy18

Just equaled the worst ever record in the Euros.

No way I personally can support this excuse for a manager ever again. Needs to go now.

Red Crow

Leaving Whelan, Keane, Duff on is crazy. A lot of people criticised McGeady but he was one our players who looked to play the ball.

McCarthy, Gibson, Coleman, McClean, Long, Clark etc. need to be integrated into the first XI in the next 6-10 months and I don't think Trap is the man to make these changes.

Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Andrews, Duff, Hunt, Keane could all very well retire and at least four of those should.

Nuri Sahin

Eli Manning wrote: »

Leaving Whelan, Keane, Duff on is crazy. A lot of people criticised McGeady but he was one our players who looked to play the ball.

McCarthy, Gibson, Coleman, McClean, Long, Clark etc. need to be integrated into the first XI in the next 6-10 months and I don't think Trap is the man to make these changes.

Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Andrews, Duff, Hunt, Keane could all very well retire and at least four of those should.

Bang on the money.

Renn

Ha, don't blame Shay anyway

noodler

Eli Manning wrote: »

Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Andrews, Duff, Hunt, Keane could all very well retire and at least four of those should.

Should?

Based on these three games?

But, what about the qualifiers which 6 of the 7 players performed very well in over the last 18 months?

double GG

Get him out the door please. After this shocking display I can only imagine if he stays there won't be much people who'd be willing to shell out €35 to watch that shít again.

steelcityblues

Pretty obvious the Duff captaincy was a 'thank you' before announcing the inevitable.

double GG

double GG wrote: »

Get him out the door please. After this shocking display I can only imagine if he stays there won't be much people who'd be willing to shell out €35 to watch that shít again.

You're right it is substandard. Ugly to watch, and gets us 0 points out of 9.

edgecutter

My main concern is the faith in some players.

Whelan has been atrocious, he should not have started this game tonight and I don't believe for one second that anyone would have complained.

Keane has been a great servant to the team, but these games required a different presence upfront not a wee man looking for sniffs.

Ward lumps the ball gives it away, lumps the ball gives it away and lumps the ball gives it away and goal.

Given, I wont criticise as he has been a fantastic servant to Ireland, but a change may be needed.

punk_one82

Eli Manning wrote: »

Leaving Whelan, Keane, Duff on is crazy. A lot of people criticised McGeady but he was one our players who looked to play the ball.

McCarthy, Gibson, Coleman, McClean, Long, Clark etc. need to be integrated into the first XI in the next 6-10 months and I don't think Trap is the man to make these changes.

Given, Dunne, O'Shea, Andrews, Duff, Hunt, Keane could all very well retire and at least four of those should.

Are you having a laugh? He was one of our better players from the first game right until tonight, and one of the few players who showed complete determination and hunger to actually get a result. The rest I agree with apart from Given.

SirDelboy18

punk_one82 wrote: »

Are you having a laugh? He was one of our better players from the first game right until tonight, and one of the few players who showed complete determination and hunger to actually get a result. The rest I agree with apart from Given.

Best player at this tournament no doubt, but still isn't of the quality of McCarthy or Gibson who both should be regulars. He is also going on 32.

punk_one82

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Best player at this tournament no doubt, but still isn't of the quality of McCarthy or Gibson who both should be regulars. He is also going on 32.

McCarthy yes, but I definitely don't think Gibson is a step up from Andrews although he is fairly old. But it's unfair on Andrews to lump him in with the underperforming(or actually performing to their ability) players whose best days are long gone.

Hank Scorpio

can we get a poll going, I'd be interested to see if people want Trap to stay, I'm undecided

If Trap was to replaced, what's the chances it would be an upgrade?

If Ireland want to have a decent chance of qualifying, stick with him.

The football might not be pretty, but what's the chances of someone with a completely different philopsphy coming in and making Ireland qualify playing passing football??

I would say quite slim.

LuckyLloyd

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Trap was to replaced, what's the chances it would be an upgrade?

If Ireland want to have a decent chance of qualifying, stick with him.

The football might not be pretty, but what's the chances of someone with a completely different philopsphy coming in and making Ireland qualify playing passing football??

I would say quite slim.

Virtually zero I would have thought. Money is a big factor here.

Blatter

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Trap was to replaced, what's the chances it would be an upgrade?

If Ireland want to have a decent chance of qualifying, stick with him.

The football might not be pretty, but what's the chances of someone with a completely different philopsphy coming in and making Ireland qualify playing passing football??

I would say quite slim.

Anybody that bothers their hole to go and watch players and select the best starting 11 available to us, would be an upgrade.

St Legder at CB when he could be playing O'Shea there beside Dunne, and Coleman at RB is ridiculous.

Darron Gibson starts in CM for a top 8 PL side yet he persists with the likes of Whelan and Andrews. No intentions of using James McCarthy, terrible use of McClean, asking Robbie Keane to lead the line against Spain (LOL!), starting Cox, bringing on Paul Green etc. etc.

The list goes on. The man is quite simply a dinosaur, completely past it.

Unfortunately we're stuck with him for the next two years because of the idiocy of the FAI handing him a brand new contract before the Euros.

Corholio

What's an upgrade though? Trapattoni has won 2 trophies at club level in 15 years, one of them in Austria. His glory days of managing was, in football terms, almost a generation ago. It seems noone will be considered an upgrade unless he's won lots of trophies in the 90's.

LuckyLloyd

Blatter wrote: »

Anybody that bothers their hole to go and watch players and select the best starting 11 available to us, would be an upgrade.

St Legder at CB when he could be playing O'Shea there beside Dunne, and Coleman at RB is ridiculous.

Darron Gibson starts in CM for a top 8 PL side yet he persists with the likes of Whelan and Andrews. No intentions of using James McCarthy, terrible use of McClean, asking Robbie Keane to lead the line against Spain (LOL!), starting Cox, bringing on Paul Green etc. etc.

The list goes on. The man is quite simply a dinosaur, completely past it.

Unfortunately we're stuck with him for the next two years because of the idiocy of the FAI handing him a brand new contract before the Euros.

- Coleman had a poor season. He ain't all that though, much like Andy Reid used to, he grows in stature with every Ireland game he doesn't play irrespective of the reality of his ability and potential role (hint: he isn't a right back);
- McCarthy missed out on the squad for reasons beyond Trapp's control;
- Andrews was arguably our best performer of the tournament. Whelan was poor, but his performance was way below what could have been expected of him. Gibson should have played tonight but let's not get carried away - he has been largely poor in a green shirt;

So many of the criticisms are lazy and based on out and out mythology.

There are valid criticisms, but the task was huge and individually the players didn't perform. Talk of sacking him is out and out retarded.

LuckyLloyd

Corholio wrote: »

What's an upgrade though? Trapattoni has won 2 trophies at club level in 15 years, one of them in Austria. His glory days of managing was, in football terms, almost a generation ago. It seems noone will be considered an upgrade unless he's won lots of trophies in the 90's.

So that's more trophies than our previous three managers combined in that time period?

SirDelboy18

Exactly. People go on about Trap, but as was already mentioned, he has 2 trophies in 15 years, one of which was in Austria. The majority of his success came 30 years ago and it is obvious to see that he is a managerial dinosaur incapable, or unwilling to adapt to the modern game.

LuckyLloyd

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Exactly. People go on about Trap, but as was already mentioned, he has 2 trophies in 15 years, one of which was in Austria. The majority of his success came 30 years ago and it is obvious to see that he is a managerial dinosaur incapable, or unwilling to adapt to the modern game.

His managerial record and experience in that 15 years still far outstrips the managers we had before him, the potential names bandied about before he joined us, and the likely level of replacements if he leaves...

bookie basher

Corholio wrote: »

What's an upgrade though? Trapattoni has won 2 trophies at club level in 15 years, one of them in Austria. His glory days of managing was, in football terms, almost a generation ago. It seems noone will be considered an upgrade unless he's won lots of trophies in the 90's.

He won most of his trophies in the 80's when he had platini,boniek, brady & half the italian world cup winning team from 1982.
King kenny won a **** load in the 80's too but he is completely past it/ out of touch with modern football. Managers like players have a shelf life too

Corholio

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So that's more trophies than our previous three managers combined in that time period?

The point wasn't that at all, It's the fact that some people hail him as some sort of mythical genius from not much recent evidence.

SirDelboy18

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- Coleman had a poor season. He ain't all that though, much like Andy Reid used to, he grows in stature with every Ireland game he doesn't play irrespective of the reality of his ability and potential role (hint: he isn't a right back);
- McCarthy missed out on the squad for reasons beyond Trapp's control;
- Andrews was arguably our best performer of the tournament. Whelan was poor, but his performance was way below what could have been expected of him. Gibson should have played tonight but let's not get carried away - he has been largely poor in a green shirt;

So many of the criticisms are lazy and based on out and out mythology.

There are valid criticisms, but the task was huge and individually the players didn't perform. Talk of sacking him is out and out retarded.

No they aren't.

Coleman is a young player who has to compete with the likes of Pienaar for a starting berth. He did well when given a chance this season. He certainly had more of an impact than Duff/Hunt. Plus, he is young and will only get better.

Gibson has been poor before, when he never played football for United. Now that he starts week in week out, and has developed a great deal of consistency, he should undoubtedly be first choice for Ireland.

The vast majority of criticisms are perfectly valid.

The talk of sacking him is not retarded. If someone like Brian McDermott would come in then we would be doing so much better in every regard. Any good young manager who embraces modern football, with some sort of track record would be nice.

steelcityblues

I can see half full stadiums for most of the qualifiers and friendlies, after this.

Mr.Nice Guy

The calls for these new players confuse me because most of the names mentioned are wide men and that is not where we have a problem. As for the CMs mentioned, well Andrews I would say came out of the tournament with the most credit (red card aside) and while I'd welcome Gibson or McCarthy to be tried ahead of Whelan, that's something I think could happen under Trap anyway. So it's not like the team requires major surgery imo.

Where I think we could do with a change of approach is from a tactical standpoint ahead of the upcoming WC campaign, but I think Trap merits time to take us forward in that regard. We have a bloody challenging group with Germany in there and a Swedish side that tends to grind out results.

The tournament was a disappointment but if lessons can be learnt then we will be stronger for it. Two play-offs in two tournaments is good going and with Germany looming I'd very much take a third play-off spot if we can get it.

Corholio

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The calls for these new players confuse me because most of the names mentioned are wide men and that is not where we have a problem. As for the CMs mentioned, well Andrews I would say came out of the tournament with the most credit (red card aside) and while I'd welcome Gibson or McCarthy to be tried ahead of Whelan, that's something I think could happen under Trap anyway. So it's not like the team requires major surgery imo.

Where I think we could do with a change of approach is from a tactical standpoint ahead of the upcoming WC campaign, but I think Trap merits time to take us forward in that regard. We have a bloody challenging group with Germany in there and a Swedish side that tends to grind out results.

The tournament was a disappointment but if lessons can be learnt then we will be stronger for it. Two play-offs in two tournaments is good going and with Germany looming I'd very much take a third play-off spot if we can get it.

To be honest I think that's all most people are asking for. That and a few chances for other players. Still don't think Andrews is the guy for midfield though. He's had more shots than any of our other players but his actual midfield play has been mostly poor. He was completely second rate before his few half chances at the end against Croatia, I think these cloud peoples judgements.

SirDelboy18

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The calls for these new players confuse me because most of the names mentioned are wide men and that is not where we have a problem. As for the CMs mentioned, well Andrews I would say came out of the tournament with the most credit (red card aside) and while I'd welcome Gibson or McCarthy to be tried ahead of Whelan, that's something I think could happen under Trap anyway. So it's not like the team requires major surgery imo.

Where I think we could do with a change of approach is from a tactical standpoint ahead of the upcoming WC campaign, but I think Trap merits time to take us forward in that regard. We have a bloody challenging group with Germany in there and a Swedish side that tends to grind out results.

The tournament was a disappointment but if lessons can be learnt then we will be stronger for it. Two play-offs in two tournaments is good going and with Germany looming I'd very much take a third play-off spot if we can get it.

You make some fair points. But there is simply no getting past the obvious.

Trap had months to prepare for these exact teams and know how they were going to line up. It isn't a mystery, it wasn't some new tactical innovation - they played largely as everybody expected.

Yet, he made 1 change throughout the competition - Cox in for Doyle, and we played a version of a 4-4-2 in every game. That is simply not good enough.

If they had picked our opponents at random the day before a game, then Trap would still have employed the exact same approach.

Blatter

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

- Coleman had a poor season. He ain't all that though, much like Andy Reid used to, he grows in stature with every Ireland game he doesn't play irrespective of the reality of his ability and potential role (hint: he isn't a right back);
- McCarthy missed out on the squad for reasons beyond Trapp's control;
- Andrews was arguably our best performer of the tournament. Whelan was poor, but his performance was way below what could have been expected of him. Gibson should have played tonight but let's not get carried away - he has been largely poor in a green shirt;

So many of the criticisms are lazy and based on out and out mythology.

There are valid criticisms, but the task was huge and individually the players didn't perform. Talk of sacking him is out and out retarded.

Coleman might not have had a great season, but there is now way that St Ledger should be in the team when he's around. He presents a perfect opportunity to move O' Shea into his most comfortable position, centre back. I'd prefer a player in the team that has played regularly for Everton in spells throughout the season rather than a bench warmer for Leicester City.

McCarthy missed out on the squad for reason's beyond Trapattoni's control, but do you honestly think he would have used him if he was available?

Andrews was a good physical presence at set pieces and struck a few decent shots, beyond that he was poor imo. You want your CM to keep the ball as well as possible and give good protection to the back 4. He did neither.

What did you honestly make of him asking Robbie Keane to lead the line against the Spanish? Somebody who isn't great at holding the ball up, isn't great in the air, offers little physical presence and lacks pace. It was one of the stupidest decisions at this level I've ever seen. You could argue if he had played Walters it'd have made no difference to the result, but he has a responsibility to pick a team that gives us the best chance of a result and he just didn't do that. And he didn't do it throughout the tournament.

Renn

People should really start looking at his tournament record and see that he struggles when he comes up against good teams - i.e. teams he doesn't have to worry about in qualifying.



World Cup 2002 (Qualifying group: Romania, Georgia, Hungary and Lithunia)

Italy 2 – 0 Ecuador
Italy 1 – 2 Croatia
Mexico 1 – 1 Italy

Korea Republic 2-1 (a.e.t) Italy



Euros 2004 (Qualifying group: Wales, Serbia & Montenegro, Finland and Azerbaijan)

Denmark 0 – 0 Italy
Italy 1 – 1 Sweden
Italy 2 – 1 Bulgaria



Euros 2012 (Qualifying group: Russia, Armenia, Slovakia, Macedonia and Andorra)

Republic of Ireland 1–3 Croatia
Spain 4–0 Republic of Ireland
Italy 2–0 Republic of Ireland

Francie Barrett

Pass completion ratio for tonight.

Given: 50%
O'Shea: 63%
St. Ledger: 62%
Dunne: 61%
Ward: 53%
McGeady: 64%
Whelan: 36%
Andrews: 58%
Duff: 48%
Keane: 60%
Doyle: 51%

Whelan @ 36% is an absolute shocker. He is supposed to be a professional footballer!

LuckyLloyd

Renn wrote: »

People should really start looking at his tournament record and see that he struggles when he comes up against good teams - i.e. teams he doesn't have to worry about in qualifying.



World Cup 2002 (Qualifying group: Romania, Georgia, Hungary and Lithunia)

Italy 2 – 0 Ecuador
Italy 1 – 2 Croatia
Mexico 1 – 1 Italy

Korea Republic 2-1 (a.e.t) Italy



Euros 2004 (Qualifying group: Wales, Serbia & Montenegro, Finland and Azerbaijan)

Denmark 0 – 0 Italy
Italy 1 – 1 Sweden
Italy 2 – 1 Bulgaria



Euros 2012 (Qualifying group: Russia, Armenia, Slovakia, Macedonia and Andorra)

Republic of Ireland 1–3 Croatia
Spain 4–0 Republic of Ireland
Italy 2–0 Republic of Ireland

2002 - do you remember that game? There was a reason he wasn't sacked.

2004 - eliminated on five points with a positive goal difference. Hardly awful?

Renn

Yes I do remember that game, thanks. Fact of the matter is that he's got a poor record when it comes to tournaments. 2 wins in 10 tournament matches. Not particularly good. His style just gets found out at the top level

And I never said awful. Just stating some facts here.

Sean Bateman

"We are not Brazil"

The salient quote.

Trap's biggest critics (e.g. Dunphy, Roddy Collins, etc) are not fit to lace the man's boots from a managerial perspective.

Our squad is rubbish.

We're the worst team in the Euros by a mile. It's a miracle and an achievement that we're there at all.

When Trap took over we were a rabble being hammered by the likes of Cyprus. Let's look at the facts:

- We're the only country in the Euros with no representatives in this year's Champions League.

- You've to go down to 38th in the world to find the next footballing nation with no players in the Champions League.

- None of our players are at top seven clubs in the Premiership.

Trap can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...he sets us up so negatively 'cause we're so bad...qualification is in itself a miracle.

LuckyLloyd

Renn wrote: »

Yes I do remember that game, thanks. Fact of the matter is that he's got a poor record when it comes to tournaments. 2 wins in 10 tournament matches. Not particularly good. His style just gets found out at the top level

And I never said awful. Just stating some facts here.

Nothing wrong with his style in 2002 tbh. He got gipped in one of the most horrendous refereeing displays at the top level of the game (that's not my opinion by the way). And 2004 was again, rather unlucky, considering that the two Nordic sides played out a statistically unlikely result to eliminate him.

There's far more grey here than people are willing to allow.

LuckyLloyd

In any case folks, like it or lump it:

- Trapp is here two more years;
- He then will retire;

If he succeeds we go to Brazil. If he fails, you guys get to pat each other on the back before the slate is wiped clean.

It's all mapped out.

aidan24326

His reistance to change is the big problem for me, because change is essential ahead of the WC qualifiers, both in personnel and in tactical approach. I don't think I've ever seen a manager so completely rigid and inflexible in his approach.

Tonight was a chance to change things around a bit, maybe bring in Gibson and McClean and start Shane Long, with a view to the future.

Instead he picks his 100% predictable lineup yet again, and with the usual couple of rather pointless substitutions. The selection of Cox against Spain, leaving Robbie alone upfront, the bizarre decision to bring on Green etc etc. Trap did not cover himself in glory and has serious questions to answer imo.

Barr

Don't think I can take another 2 years of trap

Corholio

Sean Bateman wrote: »

"We are not Brazil"

The salient quote.

Trap's biggest critics (e.g. Dunphy, Roddy Collins, etc) are not fit to lace the man's boots from a managerial perspective.

Our squad is rubbish.

We're the worst team in the Euros by a mile. It's a miracle and an achievement that we're there at all.

When Trap took over we were a rabble being hammered by the likes of Cyprus. Let's look at the facts:

- We're the only country in the Euros with no representatives in this year's Champions League.

- You've to go down to 38th in the world to find the next footballing nation with no players in the Champions League.

- None of our players are at top seven clubs in the Premiership.

Trap can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...he sets us up so negatively 'cause we're so bad...qualification is in itself a miracle.

If you posted that on San Marino or Faroe Island boards, it'd be great. But it's posts like that will always allow Trap to play the way he does and pick the players he does. He sets us up so negatively because he's Italian and it's the way he's always done it at international level, with very little success. You might as well copy and paste that for after the World Cup qualifying unless he changes his mindset.

Renn

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Nothing wrong with his style in 2002 tbh. He got gipped in one of the most horrendous refereeing displays at the top level of the game (that's not my opinion by the way). And 2004 was again, rather unlucky, considering that the two Nordic sides played out a statistically unlikely result to eliminate him.

There's far more grey here than people are willing to allow.

Tbh, setting out with teams like this is kinda crappy if you ask me:

Gianluigi BUFFON
Christian PANUCCI
Paolo MALDINI
Fabio CANNAVARO
Francesco TOTTI
Cristiano DONI
Alessandro NESTA
Luigi DI BIAGIO
Damiano TOMMASI
Gianluca ZAMBROTTA
Christian VIERI

Plus here's some possession stats fwiw:

World Cup 02: Vs Ecuador (60%) Vs Croatia (47%) Vs Mexico (60%) Vs Korea (56%)


Just doesn't set up his team to hold on to the ball imo.

noodler

I have been battling some idiocy in the last week or so saying that Robbie Keane is crap and Shay Given is crap etc.

However, saying we just don't have the players is a cop-out.

We never had the players to qualify from this group perhaps, but we have the players to be playing and winning some games more convincingly than we do.

Samba

No matter what happens, it's going to be a bitter sweet outcome with Trap.

If he goes, we may well get all the changes we're calling for with a new manager, but it's likely our chances of qualifying for the WC are going to be dramatically reduced imo.

It's really just a case of deciding what we want, better odds of qualifying through ugly football, or take a chance on a new slate with a different manager.

We looked like the team that qualified for about 20 minutes of the whole competition, I'm worried that confidence levels are so low, the team won't recover from this as long as Trap is in charge.

SirDelboy18

Fantastic manager who we should do anything and everything to get.

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/international/2012/0520/321709-brian-mcdermott-reveals-republic-ambition/

grenache

Sean Bateman wrote: »

"We are not Brazil"

The salient quote.

Trap's biggest critics (e.g. Dunphy, Roddy Collins, etc) are not fit to lace the man's boots from a managerial perspective.

Our squad is rubbish.

We're the worst team in the Euros by a mile. It's a miracle and an achievement that we're there at all.

When Trap took over we were a rabble being hammered by the likes of Cyprus. Let's look at the facts:

- We're the only country in the Euros with no representatives in this year's Champions League.

- You've to go down to 38th in the world to find the next footballing nation with no players in the Champions League.

- None of our players are at top seven clubs in the Premiership.

Trap can't make a silk purse from a sow's ear...he sets us up so negatively 'cause we're so bad...qualification is in itself a miracle.

If i hear or see this "We're not Brazil" quote again i'll murder someone!


We're only as bad as we are because of Trapattoni's team selection and his continual use of defensive and negative tactics. We had very few top club players at the '02 World Cup, but we still managed to do well at that tournament, despite facing three teams in the world's top 20 at the time. Contrast how Mick McCarthy set up his team at the WC with how Trapattoni went about his business at the Euros. If you knew nothing about football, and watched the 3 Irish games in the last 8 days, you could be forgiven for thinking we were managed by a complete novice, who has no understanding of tactical formations or simple team selection. We were a shambles. The players were not anywhere remotely good enough. The Italian could have picked the best Irish talent available to him - namely McCarthy, Coleman, Hoolahan and Clarke. All regulars for their clubs in the Premier League. Instead he chose third rate guys like Andrews, Whelan and Ward. This poor selection decision was compounded by Trapattoni's complete refusal to go for the jugular and change things around when it was obviously not working. I care not one jot for his record at club level - he's been clearly shown up at international level. The sooner he goes the better. And we can get back to watching football instead of hoofball at Lansdowne Road again.

Mitch Connor

firemansam4 wrote: »

Ok this is some kind of myth that the players we had in 2002 were no better than what we have now!!! - lets have a look at a few players from the 2002 squad.....

some of World cup 2002 players....

Given - in his prime playing for Newcastle United

Finnan - was in good form playing for Fulhum and soon after got the move to Liverpool

Duff - was in the form of his life for Blackburn and was soon to be snapped up by Chelsea a year later

Robbie Keane - Moved to Spurs in 2002 and was in much better form and more in his prime at that stage in his career

Now what ever you say about the rest of that squad of 2002 which i think would have been still probably better than the selection we have to choose from now, these players iv'e mentioned were all way better then than what they are now and put in some very big games for us in 2002

Finnan - Coleman
Duff - McClean
Keane - Long

We then have players like McCarthy, Hoolahan, Gibson, Clark who Trap continuously ignores. We don't have world class talents, but Traps persistence with players like Green and McShane as well as his archaic tactics means we are limiting the use of the talented players we do have. Our EC squad is worse than it needs to be.

I would still say the wold cup 2002 side was better, but with the right players selection it would be much closer.