Trap Watch

firemansam4

Ok this is some kind of myth that the players we had in 2002 were no better than what we have now!!! - lets have a look at a few players from the 2002 squad.....

some of World cup 2002 players....

Given - in his prime playing for Newcastle United

Finnan - was in good form playing for Fulhum and soon after got the move to Liverpool

Duff - was in the form of his life for Blackburn and was soon to be snapped up by Chelsea a year later

Robbie Keane - Moved to Spurs in 2002 and was in much better form and more in his prime at that stage in his career

Kenny Cunningham - was in good for for Birmingham where there players voted him player of the year that year


Now what ever you say about the rest of that squad of 2002 which i think would have been on par with the selection we have to choose from now, the players iv'e mentioned were all way better then than what they are now and put in some very big games for us in 2002

LuckyLloyd

grenache wrote: »

If i hear or see this "We're not Brazil" quote again i'll murder someone!


We're only as bad as we are because of Trapattoni's team selection and his continual use of defensive and negative tactics. We had very few top club players at the '02 World Cup, but we still managed to do well at that tournament, despite facing three teams in the world's top 20 at the time. Contrast how Mick McCarthy set up his team at the WC with how Trapattoni went about his business at the Euros. If you knew nothing about football, and watched the 3 Irish games in the last 8 days, you could be forgiven for thinking we were managed by a complete novice, who has no understanding of tactical formations or simple team selection. We were a shambles. The players were not anywhere remotely good enough. The Italian could have picked the best Irish talent available to him - namely McCarthy, Coleman, Hoolahan and Clarke. All regulars for their clubs in the Premier League. Instead he chose third rate guys like Andrews, Whelan and Ward. This poor selection decision was compounded by Trapattoni's complete refusal to go for the jugular and change things around when it was obviously not working. I care not one jot for his record at club level - he's been clearly shown up at international level. The sooner he goes the better. And we can get back to watching football instead of hoofball at Lansdowne Road again.

World's top 10 this time round. Much, much tougher group than 2002. Anyway:

---

Given

---

Kelly--Staunton-Breen

---

Harte

Reid--Holland--Kinsella

---

Kilbane

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

How many of our current squad would have gotten into that team?

RasTa

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

World's top 10 this time round. Much, much tougher group than 2002. Anyway:

---

Given

---

Kelly--Staunton-Breen

---

Harte

Reid--Holland--Kinsella

---

Kilbane

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

How many of our current squad would have gotten into that team?

Was that the starting lineup for 2002? O'Shea and Dunne anyway.

double GG

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

World's top 10 this time round. Much, much tougher group than 2002. Anyway:

---

Given

---

Kelly--Staunton-Breen

---

Harte

Reid--Holland--Kinsella

---

Kilbane

---

Duff

---

Keane

---

How many of our current squad would have gotten into that team?

3 I'd say.

LuckyLloyd

RasTa wrote: »

Was that the starting lineup for 2002? O'Shea and Dunne anyway.

Team that started against Cameroon as far as I remember.

O'Shea to play central defender? I'm not sure that these days he's a better fullback than the two Leeds lads who had spent the couple of years leading up to the tournament at the higher end of the table and business end of European competition.

I think one of him or Dunne gets in ahead of Breen.

double GG wrote: »

3 I'd say.

Not on current form they don't!

Renn

Some stats I was looking at on the paper today - probably easier to take a photo of it but I'll leave that to someone else. Funny how Andrews throwing himself around can give the impression that he was Ireland's best player when he clearly gave away the ball lots. That's not to say Whelan was much better but at least he did give the ball more to the players that could potentially do some damage.


Vs Croatia

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Doyle|Keane|Duff|Walters|Long|Cox|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|3|5|5|4|2|/|3|6|1|5|4|2|0|1|9 (9)|29 (25)|10 (7)
Keith Andrews|-|0|3|4|6|1|7|1|/|1|2|3|1|1|3|3 (2)|41 (21)|19 (10)

Vs Spain

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Keane|Duff|Cox|Walters|Green|McClean|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|0|3|2|1|4|/|3|4|1|3|0|1|0|0|4 (1)|17 (13)|11 (8)
Keith Andrews|-|0|4|3|1|2|3|1|/|1|1|4|0|0|0|6 (1)|30 (13)|12 (6)

Vs Italy

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Doyle|Keane|Duff|Walters|Long|Cox|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|1|4|1|1|1|/|1|1|1|1|6|1|2|0|4 (4)|23 (13)|6 (4)
Keith Andrews|-|1|3|0|5|1|3|2|/|1|1|1|0|0|0|6 (4)|15 (7)|10 (7)

Xavi6

Bump

So he's pissed off yet another player today, this time someone who is by all accounts is one of the most inoffensive lads in the setup.

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/stephen-kelly-trapattoni-statement-787741-Feb2013/?utm_source=twitter_self

Stephen Kelly ‘shocked and disgusted’ by Trapattoni blast

STEPHEN KELLY HIT back at Republic of Ireland manager Giovanni Trapattoni this morning as the public row over the defender’s international future took another turn.

A shocked and disgusted Kelly said comments made by Trapattoni yesterday were “untrue and unwarranted” and insisted that he will always be available to represent his country.

The row came to a head in the aftermath of Ireland’s 2-0 win against Poland when Trapattoni was asked if Kelly would be considered for next month’s qualifiers against Sweden and Austria. The Italian questioned Kelly’s international commitment and claimed that the Reading man did not want to be involved with the national team unless he was guaranteed to play.

“He said, ‘I play or I go home,’” Trapattoni explained, referring to a dispute between Kelly and management ahead of the trip to Faroe Islands last October. “Go home.”

The angry criticism was described by Kelly in a statement this morning as an attempt “to defame my commitment and loyalty to Ireland.”

“It is extremely disappointing for me to have to make this statement,” Kelly, 29, said.


I am simply shocked and disgusted with the untrue and unwarranted comments made by Giovanni Trapattoni. These hurtful and untrue comments have caused distress and upset to myself and my family who have supported me throughout my career and know the level of commitment and passion I have always shown in representing my country.

I have proudly represented Ireland from the age of sixteen, and I have never shown anything other than 100% commitment to my country and my team. I cannot and will not tolerate attempts to defame my commitment and loyalty to Ireland.

Representing Ireland at senior international level has given me some of my proudest moments in my professional career, and for me captaining my country will always be my greatest achievement.

It saddens me greatly that I should have to defend my good character and reputation in a profession I love, however, I refuse to allow anyone to question my passion for representing Ireland. I will continue as always to proudly be available for my country.

The end of his tenure can't come soon enough for me.

The_Kew_Tour

What he said about Kelly was a disgrace being honest.

Rule NO 1 in management. Never your players in public.

Bowlardo

rarnes1 wrote: »

If Trap was to replaced, what's the chances it would be an upgrade?
.

Anything would be an upgrade. We could get Mick back

The_Kew_Tour

I would have Mick back in no time.

Not sure he would coem back at this moment in time with him doing well at Ipswich.

The_Kew_Tour

Renn wrote: »

Some stats I was looking at on the paper today - probably easier to take a photo of it but I'll leave that to someone else. Funny how Andrews throwing himself around can give the impression that he was Ireland's best player when he clearly gave away the ball lots. That's not to say Whelan was much better but at least he did give the ball more to the players that could potentially do some damage.


Vs Croatia

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Doyle|Keane|Duff|Walters|Long|Cox|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|3|5|5|4|2|/|3|6|1|5|4|2|0|1|9 (9)|29 (25)|10 (7)
Keith Andrews|-|0|3|4|6|1|7|1|/|1|2|3|1|1|3|3 (2)|41 (21)|19 (10)
Vs Spain

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Keane|Duff|Cox|Walters|Green|McClean|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|0|3|2|1|4|/|3|4|1|3|0|1|0|0|4 (1)|17 (13)|11 (8)
Keith Andrews|-|0|4|3|1|2|3|1|/|1|1|4|0|0|0|6 (1)|30 (13)|12 (6)
Vs Italy

Passes From|Passes To|Given|St Ledger|Ward|O'Shea|Dunne|Whelan|McGeady|Andrews|Doyle|Keane|Duff|Walters|Long|Cox|Long Pass|Medium Pass|Short Pass
Glenn Whelan|-|1|4|1|1|1|/|1|1|1|1|6|1|2|0|4 (4)|23 (13)|6 (4)
Keith Andrews|-|1|3|0|5|1|3|2|/|1|1|1|0|0|0|6 (4)|15 (7)|10 (7)

To be honest I can never forgive Whelan for the 2nd Crotia goal. He basically just stood still for moment leaving huge gap for Croatia to exploit and they did.

Whelan made mistakes at crucial times.

TaosHum

Not trying to defend Trap, but do you think alot of there problems in communication come from his insistence on trying to use English as much as possible? Obviously, I don't know whether he uses Manuela in training or in private discussions with players, but much like the Long situation a while back, both sides seem to have contradictory stances.

Rhys Essien

TaosHum wrote: »

Not trying to defend Trap, but do you think alot of there problems in communication come from his insistence on trying to use English as much as possible? Obviously, I don't know whether he uses Manuela in training or in private discussions with players, but much like the Long situation a while back, both sides seem to have contradictory stances.

Ah now,if it was issues with 1 or 2 players fair enough,but at this stage its probably 22 players.

Should the players call a vote and get it over with.

On a sidenote,Trap and Tardelli are laughing their asses off every second minute,and Delaney is as bad as them.They cant believe their luck.They should be all fcuked out.

thebaz

at this stage , regardless of results , I wish he would just go - we need a Keano type figure , to tell him a few home truths - I find it hard to get excited about his team , regardless of results , his brand of football ... no , don't get me started

Xavi6

The thing is, there are reasons to be positive. It's just that the current manager refuses to let them flourish.

It's time to freshen things up on the park and in a managerial sense.

Soups123

thebaz wrote: »

at this stage , regardless of results , I wish he would just go - we need a Keano type figure , to tell him a few home truths - I find it hard to get excited about his team , regardless of results , his brand of football ... no , don't get me started

Completely understand, I am the same I've been a season ticket holder for about 10+ years and this is the first time I have really not been too interested in the team will almost certainly not renew.

brianregan09

Being honest Trap is a bit of a c.unt being honest even the other day the way he was talking about Houlihan one of the best midfielders in the premiership at the moment and he's going on about his age FFS ? but then has the likes of Shea still playing,

Anyone who's willing to fight for there place in the team, Trap insults them , Its a load of crap if ya ask me and I actually hate when international weeks come around now because of him, This week was the worst we had a positive result and he still manages to make an arse of himself by what he said about Stephen Kelly who looks like a lad if you shouted in his direction he'd cry ,

applehunter

Old man set in his ways.

Still using an interpretor after what is it 4/5 years????

He has done this job half arsed and is laughing all the way back to his bank in Italy.

Speaking of Trap Watch, I hope he watched the game last night.

Hopefully last nights result will see us get over the hangover of his era, the low expectations, players being told they were just not good enough, the rows because he couldn't speak English, his fondness for his bizarre favourites like Cox, Green and Sammon, finishing 4th in a group, record defeats v Germany...oh God I'm making myself remember it again...

stiffler123

Deleted User wrote: »

Speaking of Trap Watch, I hope he watched the game last night.

Hopefully last nights result will see us get over the hangover of his era, the low expectations, players being told they were just not good enough, the rows because he couldn't speak English, the fondness for his bizarre favourites like Cox, Green and Sammon, finishing 4th in a group, record defeats v Germany...oh God I'm making myself remember it again...

You didn't wait long to stick the boot in. I remember qualifying for the Euos with Trap, good times.

upandcumming

Deleted User wrote:

Hopefully last nights result will see us get over the hangover of his era, the low expectations, players being told they were just not good enough, the rows because he couldn't speak English, his fondness for his bizarre favourites like Cox, Green and Sammon, finishing 4th in a group, record defeats v Germany...oh God I'm making myself remember it again...

I think Cox is a great player!

LuckyLloyd

I remember two great qualification efforts and the excitement and anticipation of our first tournament in a decade.

The_Kew_Tour

Trap will always have a warmt in my heart. He got us inches from World Cup and qualified for Euros.

He should have left then, but he owes me nothing. I hate to tarnish one disaster campaign(and it was disaster) and forget good work before that.

stiffler123

:pac:

stiffler123 wrote: »

You didn't wait long to stick the boot in. I remember qualifying for the Euos with Trap, good times.

So recalling his regime now that we finally seem to have turned the corner is "sticking the boot in"?

Your choice of words suggests you're not giving him a glowing review yourself!

stiffler123

Deleted User wrote: »

:pac:

So recalling his regime now that we finally seem to have turned the corner is "sticking the boot in"?

Your choice of words suggests you're not giving him a glowing review yourself!

You didn't recall it, you took a massive dump on it. I have fond memories of the Trap era, a playoff and qualification from 3 campaigns is a very good return.

GLaDOS

Not sure what the point of dragging this up is, last night would have been considered a vintage Trap performance from his first 2 campaigns.

ScienceNerd

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Not sure what the point of dragging this up is, last night would have been considered a vintage Trap performance from his first 2 campaigns.

When we beat Germany, you don't see the point in remembering our last competitive meeting at home?

I find that unusual, in fact in so many sports and games you hear the "and remember when these last met here...".

Anyway, I won't forget it. We were utterly walloped. It makes last night even better, the thought that we may have finally left that dark era behind us. Let's not try and say it was a good night and good times.

Faugheen

ScienceNerd wrote: »

Not sure what the point of dragging this up is, last night would have been considered a vintage Trap performance from his first 2 campaigns.

I don't think this was a vintage Trap performance at all.

Yes, the football on show wasn't great, but it was far from the 'hoof it up to Walters and hope for the best tactic' that was deployed every single time. There were spells in the game that where we dominated Germany, and I don't mean just up in the air.

Trap brought great excitement to this country by qualifying for the Euros, but in reality, what was the point? We went over there to avoid defeat and ended up being embarrassed and the laughing stock of the tournament. We were never going to win it, so why not at least 'put 'em under pressure' and make a good account of ourselves as the 'Fighting Irish' like we renowned for doing?

If we make it to France, I hope we at least take this approach and ****ing go for it because we've nothing more to lose. We've shown now that we can beat good teams if we have a go. There's real belief in this side now and I don't think you could say the same about Trap's.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote: »

When we beat Germany, you don't see the point in remembering our last competitive meeting at home?

I find that unusual, in fact in so many sports and games you hear the "and remember when these last met here...".

Anyway, I won't forget it. We were utterly walloped. It makes last night even better, the thought that we may have finally left that dark era behind us. Let's not try and say it was a good night and good times.

As already said we qualified for the Euros under Trap which is hardly a dark era.

Imo you just feel like having an argument this morning so you pick on this because you know there will be loads of people reading it. I can't think of any other reason for this utter nonsense you are posting.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

Imo you just feel like having an argument this morning so you pick on this because you know there will be loads of people reading it. I can't think of any other reason for this utter nonsense you are posting.

Imo you want to talk about me, which is a bit...weird. But PM me if you want to discuss me and your fascinating analysis of my moods...:D

Let's talk about Trap. And celebrate how a win can help us finally forget the 6-1 drubbing and the manager who led us into it.

LuckyLloyd

Trapp was sacked over two year's ago now. It is well in the past. I felt he did a good job overall but happily got behind O'Neill (while caveating that the football would be similar, which it has been) and have continued to hope for the very best every time we take the field.

Last night with a few inches here and there could have been 1 - 4 and held up as the signature repudiation of O'Neill's management career. But what joy that we were on the right side of variance and to see the hard graft of our players (who always give us their best) rewarded.

Trapp was going anyway, 2014 was his last hurrah if he made it. I'm not sure why people feel the need to be bitter about his reign. Release those feelings - it's bad for the soul.

Kirby

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Trapp was sacked over two year's ago now. It is well in the past. I felt he did a good job overall but happily got behind O'Neill

Surely its relevant though? Rafa and Kenny are also in the past and you frequently bring them up while comparing them to Hodgson and Rodgers. Why is okay for Liverpool but somehow different for Ireland?

I'm delighted we won and trap hadnt even entered my mind to be honest....but it is interesting to think of the difference in how we were hammered 6-1 a while back and how good we were in both games against the same German team this campaign. It's an interesting thought.

LuckyLloyd

Kirby wrote: »

Surely its relevant though? Rafa and Kenny are also in the past and you frequently bring them up while comparing them to Hodgson and Rodgers. Why is okay for Liverpool but somehow different for Ireland?

I'm delighted we won and trap hadnt even entered my mind to be honest....but it is interesting to think of the difference in how we were hammered 6-1 a while back and how good we were in both games against the same German team this campaign. It's an interesting thought.

Natural end points. I don't talk about Hodgson much at all tbh, it was obviously time for him to get ****ed out when he was.

As I said, Trapp was sacked towards the end of what would have been his last campaign no matter what happened. He was sacked when it was over from a competitive perspective. A natural break point, and his successor was a very reasonable choice.

I felt Benitez and Dalglish deserved more time, particularly in the context of their successors not being managerial upgrades.

And in terms of the comparison - bear in mind Trapp got us to the Euros in a more difficult qualification context. Let's hope O'Neill finishes the job Sunday so we can really draw comparisons.

Kirby

Kirby wrote: »

Surely its relevant though? Rafa and Kenny are also in the past and you frequently bring them up while comparing them to Hodgson and Rodgers. Why is okay for Liverpool but somehow different for Ireland?

I'm delighted we won and trap hadnt even entered my mind to be honest....but it is interesting to think of the difference in how we were hammered 6-1 a while back and how good we were in both games against the same German team this campaign. It's an interesting thought.

It is interesting. Not sure why the need to whitewash the bad days away, or why we can't invoke Trap...there is a pretty direct and very obvious link when it comes to Ireland v Germany. Particularly as a fair few were saying that the worst thing about O'Neill's reign is how depressingly similar it was to those really bad days. It's why we should celebrate last night even more, it draws a line under the mess that was 2012 and 2013 and the air of depression around games, public interest, ticket sales etc.

eagle eye

Deleted User wrote: »

It is interesting. Not sure why the need to whitewash the bad days away, or why we can't invoke Trap...there is a pretty direct and very obvious link when it comes to Ireland v Germany. Particularly as a fair few were saying that the worst thing about O'Neill's reign is how depressingly similar it was to those really bad days. It's why we should celebrate last night even more, it draws a line under the mess that was 2012 and 2013 and the air of depression around games, public interest, ticket sales etc.

The bad days, dark days for Irish football were a long time ago now. I'd say about 30-40 years ago when we couldn't quality for a World Cup or European Championships with teams that included Lawrenson, McGrath, O'Leary, Hughton, Heighway, Brady and Giles.

I lived through that period and to see Trap qualify for a Euro's with the bunch of players he had was incredible.

Ferris_Bueller

Nights like the playoff v France, qualifying for the euros, drawing twice with Italy, they're the nights I remember from the Trap era. They don't happen too often but when the entire nation gets behind the team like last night it really is a memorable occasion, and there were a good few of those nights in Traps reign. The last campaign was obviously a major disappointment but no point in letting a dislike for the manager ruin some of the few good memories we have of supporting our country over the past ten years.

briany

I hope the aul' trickster was watching the game last night and feeling a pang of pride or two. He gave the country two campaigns where we believed in the team and a few memorable nights. In spite of the turgid football that was often played, we at least enjoyed those brief, but great moments, and they were more, overall, than what we'd seen in the Kerr-Stan era.

If O Neill matches what Trap did he'll be doing well.

eagle eye

eagle eye wrote: »

The bad days, dark days for Irish football were a long time ago now. I'd say about 30-40 years ago when we couldn't quality for a World Cup or European Championships with teams that included Lawrenson, McGrath, O'Leary, Hughton, Heighway, Brady and Giles.

I lived through that period and to see Trap qualify for a Euro's with the bunch of players he had was incredible.

They were bad days when we couldn't qualify...but then again only 8 teams did.

Now sure half of the continent seems to qualify as the numbers have increased greatly, so of course it's much easier to get through - if we do so again we'll be there with NI, Iceland and co.

If you thought the achievement incredible, I can see why you are annoyed that I have brought up what I thought was a horror show in 2012, as perfectly demonstrated by the difference in our results against Germany - we'll just agree to differ.

Lukker-

The main difference for me between Trap and O'Neill is the selection of players. Donkey's who could do a job would start and players who were playing PL football on the bench.

LuckyLloyd

Lukker- wrote: »

The main difference for me between Trap and O'Neill is the selection of players. Donkey's who could do a job would start and players who were playing PL football on the bench.

O'Neill started:

Daryl Murphy over Long
Stephen Ward over McGeady essentially

And subbed Randolph on ahead of Forde

The world did not explode in furious anger.

patmac

Meh he did ok, but his football was puke and it's hard to forgive him for wasting 5 years of Wes in his prime.

Paully D

Unbelievable, really. One (fantastic) result and the digs start flying, while the (largely) rubbish we've played under O'Neill so far during his reign is forgotten and being re-labelled as Brazil 1970-esque.

It's probably worth pointing out that in any other year we'd still be needing to go to Poland on Sunday and win (or manage a score draw of 2-2 or greater) to even make a playoff, something Trapattoni managed to guide Ireland to twice when only 1st place went through automatically and only 2nd place made a playoff. An undeniably more difficult achievement.

Faugheen wrote: »

Trap brought great excitement to this country by qualifying for the Euros, but in reality, what was the point? We went over there to avoid defeat and ended up being embarrassed and the laughing stock of the tournament. We were never going to win it, so why not at least 'put 'em under pressure' and make a good account of ourselves as the 'Fighting Irish' like we renowned for doing?

Which is exactly what we've done in almost every single one of the games O'Neill has been in charge of to date. Easily forgotten after a result like last night I guess.

Paully D

Paully D wrote: »

Unbelievable, really. One (fantastic) result and the digs start flying, while the (largely) rubbish we've played under O'Neill so far during his reign is forgotten and being re-labelled as Brazil 1970-esque...

Who compared us with Brazil? That would be silly alright, but reading back through posts I can't see who you're referring to?

Liam O

Ireland have lost one qualification game. Bad home draws with Poland and Scotland but we were the better team in both imo. There are encouraging signs based on that if nothing else because there have been previous qualification campaigns where we almost fell over the line with a lot of bad play and teams walking all over us.

TheCitizen

Paully D wrote: »

Unbelievable, really. One (fantastic) result and the digs start flying, while the (largely) rubbish we've played under O'Neill so far during his reign is forgotten and being re-labelled as Brazil 1970-esque.

It's probably worth pointing out that in any other year we'd still be needing to go to Poland on Sunday and win (or manage a score draw of 2-2 or greater) to even make a playoff, something Trapattoni managed to guide Ireland to twice when only 1st place went through automatically and only 2nd place made a playoff. An undeniably more difficult achievement.



Which is exactly what we've done in almost every single one of the games O'Neill has been in charge of to date. Easily forgotten after a result like last night I guess.

Incredible that you continue with your inaccurate, stupid and bitter gibberish.

You thought Dick Advocaat was great for Sunderland 'cos he was close to tears when he kept them up and he didn't hang around for a pay off. He didn't need a pay off, he just wanted to get out.

I've nothing against Advocaat, he kept Sunderland up, so did MON, but you've got some ridiculous axe to grind with MON about Sunderland and you drag it into the Ireland thread. You come across like a spotty teenager ranting and raving and without a clue. Give it a rest.

briany

For '10 and '12 the team faced off against an imploding second seed and a handy enough 4th seed. To say it was more of a challenge and more of an achievement what Trap did, you first have to look at the opposition that Ireland faced, plus the team's own strength and morale. Weighing all those factors up vs. now, I'd say the impressiveness of what's been achieved is about the same.

Arghus

TheCitizen wrote: »

Incredible that you continue with your inaccurate, stupid and bitter gibberish.

Great result last night, but I think the points Paully D made are fair enough.

If it was any other campaign we'd be staring down the barrel of elimination at this stage. Thankfully this time round, third in the group counts for something. I think that's a valuable piece of perspective, when it comes to weighing O'Neills achievements to date beside those of Trap. Seems to me that's what Paully was trying to say. And I can't see mention of Advocat anywhere in his post.

Corholio

Arghus wrote: »

Great result last night, but I think the points Paully D made are fair enough.

If it was any other campaign we'd be staring down the barrel of elimination at this stage. Thankfully this time round, third in the group counts for something. I think that's a valuable piece of perspective, when it comes to weighing O'Neills achievements to date beside those of Trap. Seems to me that's what Paully was trying to say. And I can't see mention of Advocat anywhere in his post.

I've never understood the whole 'any other year we'd be third and out' disaster talk. I'd expect Ireland to battle and try and win every game, but Poland and Germany ahead of us would hardly have been an unreal disaster to happen. Like any other time not qualifying it would have been disappointing, but you'd swear we would have finished behind the Faroes and Luxembourg with some of the 'we're very lucky' stuff that knocks around.

TheCitizen

Arghus wrote: »

Great result last night, but I think the points Paully D made are fair enough.

If it was any other campaign we'd be staring down the barrel of elimination at this stage. Thankfully this time round, third in the group counts for something. I think that's a valuable piece of perspective, when it comes to weighing O'Neills achievements to date beside those of Trap. Seems to me that's what Paully was trying to say. And I can't see mention of Advocat anywhere in his post.

Let Paully D speak for himself. He has an agenda against MON and that's what is behind the "points" that he is making.