Trap Watch

SantryRed

plasmaguy wrote: »

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Backs up my thoughts on you and your knowledge of football. Jacks long ball was totally different, when he knocked it long the first thing the midfield did was press up and "Put them under pressure".

So you are in favour of hoofing it up front and then midfielders following up?

I suppose next you will say it's all Trap's fault we qualified for the Euros

And where did you manage again that gives you the right to question the most successful manager in European Club history?

It's not Trap's fault he gets to work with a bunch of hoofers for a few weeks of every year who learned their trade hoofing the ball around the fields of England for years.

That's my last post on this thread.

All I'll say is well done Trap and the lads, if they lose 5-0 in each of the remaining game, I'll still applaud them.

As for the bandwagoners, who show up when Ireland reaches a tournament to criticize this or that, they are a complete disgrace!

I'll probably get a week's ban for that, but who cares.

Delighted because you haven't a clue and don't argue your point.

plasmaguy

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And how many ****ing times do we have to say that nobody, absolutely nobody is expecting us to play like Barcelona. You do realise there is more than 2 ways to play football dont you? Actually no, you probably dont

Hmm Trap's opinion or yours?

I think I will go with Trap on this one Since like most of Trap's critics on here, it's doubtful if you ever managed a team at any serious level.

SantryRed

plasmaguy wrote: »

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

And how many ****ing times do we have to say that nobody, absolutely nobody is expecting us to play like Barcelona. You do realise there is more than 2 ways to play football dont you? Actually no, you probably dont

Hmm Trap's opinion or yours?

I think I will go with Trap on this one Since like most of Trap's critics on here, it's doubtful if you ever managed a team at any serious level.

Why don't we lock every thread on the site then? :rolleyes: if you can't see what's wrong with the Irish team then I'm baffled

Orando Broom

Magic Pips wrote: »

I think our opinions on the matter are closer than you think. Of course throwing money at something (especially the way ireland is right now) would be folly.

I only wanted to broach the subject as a 'btw', i think if we continue down the path we'd derail the thread.

We can agree that ireland, and the players currently at the disposal of the management are not what they should be?
I have respect for what Trap has done over the years, he's into his 70's now and out dated (please dont mention SAF, he has been at one club for millennia now and performs to the highest level). I appreciate what he's done to get us here. My fear is now that we're here we dont take the chances to let the youth lose.

Possibly we are thinking along similar lines, sure. I'd not be a rabid Trap fan. I'm really grateful for what he has done for the team. however I'd like to see the future being addressed. I was really frustrated with the 3-2 in Aviva. really frustrated but we're in the Euros by hook or by crook so any concerns I had/have could be invalidated.

I think there are some very good players outside of the Trap 23/26 he likes to use but I think these guys have to take part of the blame. trap is a disciplinarian, a strict one, you toe the line or you fúck off. I think trap has had four years now and I think there certainly should be greater flexibility in his squads. Does he constantly need to be reaffirmed of the quality of Andrews, Whelan Given and Keane? The friendlies going froward from Euro 2012 I'd like to see Houilhan (I think he's too old at 30) Robbie Brady, Ciaran Clark, Marc Wilson and James McCarthy be trusted to do a job for Ireland in at least one friendly.

Andy Reid was told go to bed and chose to sit up battering away on a guitar and sipping pints. That is why he is out. Having said that he has hardly stuck two fingers up to Trap since.

On the bold,I'd like you to elaborate a wee bit on this before I agree or disagree.

Magic Pips

plasmaguy wrote: »

Hmm Trap's opinion or yours?

I think I will go with Trap on this one Since like most of Trap's critics on here, it's doubtful if you ever managed a team at any serious level.

Is that you Sir Alex?? apologies. I will halt my bandwagon jumping slander immediately. I yield to your years of experience and sound arguments.

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

So you're saying Andy Reid is as good as Pirlo, Xavi and Modric? I've heard it all now! This is typical of the hyberbole that comes from the Anti Trap brigade.

Poor old Andy Reid, our greatest midfielder ever, better than Brady, Giles and Keane put together, better than Xavi and Pirlo, should be world player of the year, and so on and so forth.

Where is Andy Reid these days by the way?

Why do you keep going on with this nonsense? Nobody is saying anything of the sort. What is wrong with you?

Orando Broom

plasmaguy wrote: »

Hmm Trap's opinion or yours?

I think I will go with Trap on this one Since like most of Trap's critics on here, it's doubtful if you ever managed a team at any serious level.

To be fair to those who oppose your viewpoint, and I'd be inclined towards agreeing with you on several points, it's unlikely many of his defenders on the board have managed to a serious level either.

G.K.

plasmaguy wrote: »

Just to remind people of the quality of creative midfielders other teams in this competition have:

Russia have Arshavan
Croatia have Moderic
Spain have Xavi
Italy have Pirlo
France have Nasri
Holland have Snider
Chech Republic have Radisky

jmayo wrote: »

Who are Snider and Radisky ?


Do we have any creative midfielder on the team, or in the squad or hiding somewhere in England that has the quality of these players?

Ehh anytime an Irish player or eligible player appears who is in any way akin to a player that has a bit of skill and can use the ball, it does appear that Trap either has a run in with them menaing they are dropped or they are ignored and pushed to the periphery of the squad.

Has anyone cared to notice the players that Trap has had major toruble with ?
First there was Andy Reid, then he couldn't get or didn't want Ireland back.
Then we had the treatment of McCarthy and Seamus Coleman.
Now we have him publicly stating that he doesn't think McClean, one of the brightest prospects in the last 6 months of the PL, is not good enough and that a so so striker who can't get his game for his club is better out of position than him.

How come the English manager thinks Oxlade Chamberlain is good enough to start ?

Now I am not saying any of the above are the same quality as Sneijder, Pirlo, Modric, Nasri, Ribbery, Xavi, Fabregas, etc, but they are a damm sight better than Whelan, Andrews, Green, McGeady, and Gibson.

plasmaguy wrote: »

So you're saying Andy Reid is as good as Pirlo, Xavi and Modric? I've heard it all now! This is typical of the hyberbole that comes from the Anti Trap brigade.

Poor old Andy Reid, our greatest midfielder ever, better than Brady, Giles and Keane put together, better than Xavi and Pirlo, should be world player of the year, and so on and so forth.

Where is Andy Reid these days by the way?

Nobody claimed that Andy Reid is as good Xavi, Pirlo, Modric. Just like nobody said Ireland should play like Barca.

And btw, that 'you've never managed' argument is tripe. Sometimes coaches are clearly wrong. Even sucessful ones.

Stop misrepresenting what people have said, and don't use the 'you've never managed' argument.

plasmaguy

G.K. wrote: »

plasmaguy wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Nobody claimed that Andy Reid is as good Xavi, Pirlo, Modric. Just like nobody said Ireland should play like Barca.

And btw, that 'you've never managed' argument is tripe. Sometimes coaches are clearly wrong. Even sucessful ones.

Stop misrepresenting what people have said, and don't use the 'you've never managed' argument.

Fine, I'm outta this thread anyways.

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

Hmm Trap's opinion or yours?

I think I will go with Trap on this one Since like most of Trap's critics on here, it's doubtful if you ever managed a team at any serious level.

What? Why dont you answer my point instead of posting inane drivel. No, i havent managed at a serious level, im sorry i didnt realise that was a requirement for posting on football forums. Your dying for someone to ask you have you managed at a serious level arent you?

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

G.K. wrote: »

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fine, I'm outta this thread anyways.

...

Magic Pips

Orando Broom wrote: »

On the bold,I'd like you to elaborate a wee bit on this before I agree or disagree.

Orando Broom wrote: »

The friendlies going froward from *before* Euro 2012 I'd like to *have* see Houilhan (I think he's too old at 30) Robbie Brady, Ciaran Clark, Marc Wilson and James McCarthy be trusted to do a job for Ireland in at least one friendly.

I'd add in Coleman, mcClean, Long (by far the most dynamic irish attacker for me). Players that while they are present in some cases, dont feature in the managers plan B - which i dont think we have.

Xavi6

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fine, I'm outta this thread anyways.

Your usual bullshit followed by disappearing act when called on it. Consistent, I'll give you that.

~Rebel~

plasmaguy wrote: »

Fine, I'm outta this thread anyways.

Its astonishing how often this is the end of these little debates.

Orando Broom

~Rebel~ wrote: »

Its astonishing how often this is the end of these little debates.

How do end an internet debate? Has one ever actually been ended?

Leaves.

plasmaguy

Tried to report a few posts there, but it won't let me at work.

Suffice it to say I quit threads when the garbage count from a number of posters reaches overload and it becomes a childish slagging match, eg coilte bhoy's post above.

Couple of internet hardmen on I see, pathetic to say the least.

Have fun ladies!

noodler

Its been this way for years now.


I was critical of him not using Andy Reid in either match against Georgia or Montenagro. I was absolutely shocked at the first home game against Cyprus where we let them have the ball for most of the game - this was my first serious criticism of Trap - he doesn't cut his cloth to suit the style of opposition at all.

It is the home games where we look the worst as you might expect - nobody can deny how much we have improved away from home.

But those who defend him without accepting that anything could be done better (with little risk to his system) like to portray the style criticisms as a Barcelona or Stoke ultimatum.

We have much to be grateful to Trap for and he has been a great appointment (I'd rather be here fearing a lashing from Spain than not be here at all) but two points I feel strongly about:

1) After 4 or 5 years the team's stlye of play should be progressing a little better, some degree of fluidity or an emerging pattern. It still looks incredibly disjointed at times.

2) I fear that when he goes, the rebuilding job will be all the tougher for the next manager because Trap will have stick with the 30-somethings until his last game and not only will personnel have to be changed but the entire mindset.

However, on the plus side, the next manager may well recieve the benefit of a second seeding for qualifiers as well as almost certainly having a higher ranking.

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

Tried to report a few posts there, but it won't let me at work.

Suffice it to say I quit threads when the garbage count from a number of posters reaches overload and it becomes a childish slagging match, eg coilte bhoy's post above.

Couple of internet hardmen on I see, pathetic to say the least.

Have fun ladies!

Oh dear, its you that keeps ascribing views to others that they have not espoused so you can then go on a rant against something that wasnt even posted. Very odd behaviour. By the way how many 'last posts' do you intend making?

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

Its been this way for years now.


I was critical of him not using Andy Reid in either match against Georgia or Montenagro. I was absolutely shocked at the first home game against Cyprus where we let them have the ball for most of the game - this was my first serious criticism of Trap - he doesn't cut his cloth to suit the style of opposition at all.

It is the home games where we look the worst as you might expect - nobody can deny how much we have improved away from home.

But those who defend him without accepting that anything could be done better (with little risk to his system) like to portray the style criticisms as a Barcelona or Stoke ultimatum.

We have much to be grateful to Trap for and he has been a great appointment (I'd rather be here fearing a lashing from Spain than not be here at all) but two points I feel strongly about:

1) After 4 or 5 years the team's stlye of play should be progressing a little better, some degree of fluidity or an emerging pattern. It still looks incredibly disjointed at times.

2) I fear that when he goes, the rebuilding job will be all the tougher for the next manager because Trap will have stick with the 30-somethings until his last game and not only will personnel have to be changed but the entire mindset.

However, on the plus side, the next manager will may recieve the benefit of a second seeding for qualifiers as well as almost certainly having a higher ranking.

A very rational post. I think Ireland are lucky because the 30 somethings will go during his tenure. Richie Dunne has a chronic injury complaint. International football may be sacrificed. Duffer may go too. Robbie and Given I'd live with them sticking it out. I'd wager Trap could reduce Robbie to impact sub.

Second point on your rational post.

YOU'RE A WITCH!!!!!

BURRRRRRN HIIIIIM!!!!

G.K.

I'll re-open this in 5 minutes.

Everybody calm down.

G.K.

Right, open again.

Renn

jmayo

plasmaguy wrote: »

jmayo wrote: »

Ehh anytime an Irish player or eligible player appears who is in any way akin to a player that has a bit of skill and can use the ball, it does appear that Trap either has a run in with them menaing they are dropped or they are ignored and pushed to the periphery of the squad.

Has anyone cared to notice the players that Trap has had major toruble with ?
First there was Andy Reid, then he couldn't get or didn't want Ireland back.
Then we had the treatment of McCarthy and Seamus Coleman.
Now we have him publicly stating that he doesn't think McClean, one of the brightest prospects in the last 6 months of the PL, is not good enough and that a so so striker who can't get his game for his club is better out of position than him.

How come the English manager thinks Oxlade Chamberlain is good enough to start ?

Now I am not saying any of the above are the same quality as Sneijder, Pirlo, Modric, Nasri, Ribbery, Xavi, Fabregas, etc, but they are a damm sight better than Whelan, Andrews, Green, McGeady, and Gibson.

So you're saying Andy Reid is as good as Pirlo, Xavi and Modric? I've heard it all now! This is typical of the hyberbole that comes from the Anti Trap brigade.

Poor old Andy Reid, our greatest midfielder ever, better than Brady, Giles and Keane put together, better than Xavi and Pirlo, should be world player of the year, and so on and so forth.

Where is Andy Reid these days by the way?

You appear to have huge difficulty reading ?
I never said he was a world class player.
See the above highlighted in bold...

BTW no one, but yourself has said these things and no one has said that we should be capable of playing like Barcelona, but you just keep spouting the same stuff.

G.K. wrote: »

I'll re-open this in 5 minutes.

Everybody calm down.

BTW that was longer than 5 minutes, I think there was some time wasting going on.

LuckyLloyd

Some people have been chipping away at Trapp right since that Cyprus home game and the omission of Andy Reid. They complained all the way through the WC Campaign and were sharpening their knives in advance of the second leg in Paris - but a magnificent performance kept the grumbling at bay.

Then the next campaign began, we gritted it out against Armenia and the dissenters came out in full force. They bayed and bleated all the way through from there - were furious following Slovakia at home and wanted to lynch him after Russia away. There was constant hand wringing following the announcement of EVERY squad.

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.

Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Meanwhile the rest of us have been enjoying a frankly thrilling ride the past four years and are excited at the prospect of facing the mighty Spain in a finals.

Moneymaker

noodler wrote: »

Its been this way for years now.


I was critical of him not using Andy Reid in either match against Georgia or Montenagro. I was absolutely shocked at the first home game against Cyprus where we let them have the ball for most of the game - this was my first serious criticism of Trap - he doesn't cut his cloth to suit the style of opposition at all.

It is the home games where we look the worst as you might expect - nobody can deny how much we have improved away from home.

But those who defend him without accepting that anything could be done better (with little risk to his system) like to portray the style criticisms as a Barcelona or Stoke ultimatum.

We have much to be grateful to Trap for and he has been a great appointment (I'd rather be here fearing a lashing from Spain than not be here at all) but two points I feel strongly about:

1) After 4 or 5 years the team's stlye of play should be progressing a little better, some degree of fluidity or an emerging pattern. It still looks incredibly disjointed at times.

2) I fear that when he goes, the rebuilding job will be all the tougher for the next manager because Trap will have stick with the 30-somethings until his last game and not only will personnel have to be changed but the entire mindset.

However, on the plus side, the next manager may well recieve the benefit of a second seeding for qualifiers as well as almost certainly having a higher ranking.

This is by far the most sensible post in this thread.

Trap has done more good then bad, but it's certainly valid to question the team selection, tactics and style of play.

I don't even think we operate our defensive system all that well. Time and time again teams have played through us far too easily, we've given away poor goals and our shape looks non existent at times.

Frankly I find the omission of McClean baffling, Trap says he's not ready for "big games", then why bring him?

Yes we have limited players, yes we probably couldn't do an awful lot better but questions should be rightly asked of Trap. I've seen very little evolution of the squad, very few signs that things will improve or that the talent we do have is being nutured properly.

On the flip side, it seems that Trap can't do anything right and people are far too quick to get on his back which is frankly ridiculous.

Orando Broom

Moneymaker wrote: »

This is by far the most sensible post in this thread.

Trap has done more good then bad, but it's certainly valid to question the team selection, tactics and style of play.

I don't even think we operate our defensive system all that well. Time and time again teams have played through us far too easily, we've given away poor goals and our shape looks non existent at times.

Frankly I find the omission of McClean baffling, Trap says he's not ready for "big games", then why bring him?
Yes we have limited players, yes we probably couldn't do an awful lot better but questions should be rightly asked of Trap. I've seen very little evolution of the squad, very few signs that things will improve or that the talent we do have is being nutured properly.

Everyone, on this point can we hang Trap after the fact. for all you or I know McCleanc could be the first name on the sheet for Thursday. Just because he told Tony O'Donoghue and Tony told us doesn't make it true. McClean might know he is starting but Trap wants to keep the hype bullshíte down several nothches. Imagine if he announced McClean's inclusion last night?? End of the internet!

Coillte_Bhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.

Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Meanwhile the rest of us have been enjoying a frankly thrilling ride the past four years and are excited at the prospect of facing the mighty Spain in a finals.

Do you really believe there are many people out there like that? So, who are they?

jmayo

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people have been chipping away at Trapp right since that Cyprus home game and the omission of Andy Reid. They complained all the way through the WC Campaign and were sharpening their knives in advance of the second leg in Paris - but a magnificent performance kept the grumbling at bay.

Then the next campaign began, we gritted it out against Armenia and the dissenters came out in full force. They bayed and bleated all the way through from there - were furious following Slovakia at home and wanted to lynch him after Russia away. There was constant hand wringing following the announcement of EVERY squad.

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.

Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Meanwhile the rest of us have been enjoying a frankly thrilling ride the past four years and are excited at the prospect of facing the mighty Spain in a finals.

It's all a conspiracy, right ?

All a bunch of begrudgers, right ?
Just because some people can see how things could be better and how farnkly baffling decisons have and are being made you would rather everyone just tows the line.

A very typical attitude that reminds what has gotten our economy to where it is today. :rolleyes:

Moneymaker

Orando Broom wrote: »

Everyone, on this point can we hang Trap after the fact. for all you or I know McCleanc could be the first name on the sheet for Thursday. Just because he told Tony O'Donoghue and Tony told us doesn't make it true. McClean might know he is starting but Trap wants to keep the hype bullshíte down several nothches. Imagine if he announced McClean's inclusion last night?? End of the internet!

True, but I was more referring to the Croatia game.

Orando Broom

Moneymaker wrote: »

True, but I was more referring to the Croatia game.

Ah fair enough. I read it as the upcoming games.

LuckyLloyd

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Do you really believe there are many people out there like that? So, who are they?

Do you read this forum?

Colonialboy

Trap might have great club credentials, but his International record with Ireland and Italy isnt exactly stellar, particularily when it comes to the finals tournaments. I admire him and the team , but I can still be critical.

In the context of Il Trap , what do Mexico, Croatia (x2), South Korea, Denmark and Sweden all have in common.
Intl teams he has managed have been knocked out or dropped points against those teams in Euro or World Cup finals tournaments.
taken from his wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Trapattoni
Stuttgart

However, during his 20 games at the helm, Stuttgart produced poor results. Denmark internationals Jon Dahl Tomasson and Jesper Grønkjær openly criticized their coach, claiming he was afraid to attack. Trapattoni responded by dropping both players to the bench.

LuckyLloyd

Colonialboy wrote: »

Trap might have great club credentials, but his International record with Ireland and Italy isnt exactly stellar, particularily when it comes to the finals tournaments. I admire him and the team , but I can still be critical.

In the context of Il Trap , what do Mexico, Croatia (x2), South Korea, Denmark and Sweden all have in common.
Intl teams he has managed have been knocked out or dropped points against those teams in Euro or World Cup finals tournaments.
taken from his wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Trapattoni
Stuttgart

However, during his 20 games at the helm, Stuttgart produced poor results. Denmark internationals Jon Dahl Tomasson and Jesper Grønkjær openly criticized their coach, claiming he was afraid to attack. Trapattoni responded by dropping both players to the bench.

You realise that there is an awful lot on that wikipedia page that is positive, right? You have to hunt for negatives like the above tbh.

Also, Italy did get robbed in 2002 in one of the more controversial refereeing performances of the last 10 years or so.

ronsgonawin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people have been chipping away at Trapp right since that Cyprus home game and the omission of Andy Reid. They complained all the way through the WC Campaign and were sharpening their knives in advance of the second leg in Paris - but a magnificent performance kept the grumbling at bay.

Then the next campaign began, we gritted it out against Armenia and the dissenters came out in full force. They bayed and bleated all the way through from there - were furious following Slovakia at home and wanted to lynch him after Russia away. There was constant hand wringing following the announcement of EVERY squad.

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.



Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Meanwhile the rest of us have been enjoying a frankly thrilling ride the past four years and are excited at the prospect of facing the mighty Spain in a finals.

Lucky your right. When trap was appointed I loved the guy turned our fortunes around, got us playing for each other again. But your right a few silly results and I began to start questioning did he have another way to play, after realising that he didn't I wanted someone to take us on from there, but it never happened and I think the results and performances have been getting worse over the last couple of years.

No matter what I spout about trap though, I have followed my country all around Europe and will continue to do so and will be in the pub cheering us on come Thursday night, but I like most people know we are capable of alot better and I think our players deserve more respect from trap.

noodler

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people have been chipping away at Trapp right since that Cyprus home game and the omission of Andy Reid. They complained all the way through the WC Campaign and were sharpening their knives in advance of the second leg in Paris - but a magnificent performance kept the grumbling at bay.

Then the next campaign began, we gritted it out against Armenia and the dissenters came out in full force. They bayed and bleated all the way through from there - were furious following Slovakia at home and wanted to lynch him after Russia away. There was constant hand wringing following the announcement of EVERY squad.

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.

Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Meanwhile the rest of us have been enjoying a frankly thrilling ride the past four years and are excited at the prospect of facing the mighty Spain in a finals.

I think you are being just a little too cynical but:

I have to admit at times I honestly don't know if we are keep clean sheets by chance (i.e. we are still conceding lots of chances) or is it by design.

I have to admit also, in my most critical moments, I have really feared what the chosen tactics would get us if we actually qualified.

However, as I said, qualifying is the main thing.


Off-topic. I quite like the idea of Tardelli getting the job in the future. I think there'd be a little more balance there without any serious departure from the system.

51 hours until our country does battle with the reigning World and Europan Champions with the whole world watching!

LuckyLloyd

noodler wrote: »

51 hours until our country does battle with the reigning World and Europan Champions with the whole world watching!

God, it's class when you hear it like that!

Pro. F

noodler wrote: »

That is weak sauce man!

So basically, if an otherise good team has a bad campaign against us then we forever decide that the group was easy? They won in Moscow, we couldn't beat them and they dominated us at the Aviva.

I didn't think they had a bad campaign against us. We couldn't beat them and they dominated us in Lansdowne Road as you say. Slovakia got a great result in Moscow, but other than that their results were very ordinary. 2-0 aggregate over Andorra, 2-1 aggregate over Macedonia and hammered home and away against Armenia. I would much rather the team seeded just above us to suffer to fifth seeds like they did than the, more normal, other way round.

noodler wrote: »

I disagree completely. They gave EVERYBODY a game in Yerevan - not just Ireland, but Slovakia, Macedonia and Russia.

They were very good and no amount of revisionism is going to change that fact - I can't believe anybody could stoop to saying they were not impressive! That is about as impressive a performance from a 5th seed you are ever likely to see.

Well, if we follow your logic then every team that ever challenged us for a play-off spot was muck.

And "Team like Armenia" is probably where our disagreement lies - you sre still thinking of them as 5th seed no-hopers when they had disproven this assertion completely by the time the game in question came about.

For fifth seeds they were excellent, I agree. I would still much rather strong fifth seeds to normal strength second seeds. When you go into the final match and those fifth seeds get their keeper sent off raising his hands to block outside the box and then a defender passes it into their own net from two yards out under no pressure, it's just not that surprising. They are a team I would be glad to have to compete against for second spot in any qualifying group.

I had thought we could all agree that it was an easy group, but we can't. Football is just like that - always loads of room for debate.

Borat_Sagdiyev

Look folks Trap is definitely not without his flaws - there have been several baffling decisions throughout the campaign including Sunday's game.

But to be having some sort of "WTF is he doing?" type of reaction after one game is out of order.

Let's at least wait until Euro 2012 is over before we decide how it went for us eh ?

I'll put my faith in him for the time being. Of course there are things that could be done differently, yes there are improvements to be made, but he has gotten us this far so I'll give him a chance.

Bowlardo

I think trap did a great job in getting us there when you think of the players at his disposal.
I think he still of management formation etc is ideal for getting us to qualify for a tournament but when you get there you do really have to go for it.
We did not go for it. Then again we are playing 3 teams that are in the top ten in the world if we did go out we could get torn apart altogether


We cannot fault the players for effort but whether they are very limited or the manger has to take some responsibility for how we are playing.
We are blessed to have some serious wingers in the squad yet it always take to many touches to get the ball out wide....I have yet to set McGeady get the ball where he did not have two players on him....obviously they are double teaming him but the fact we are so pedestrian moving the ball around has something to do with it as well.

I’ll be total honest and did not watch some of the qualifying matches as it made my eyes bleed and my heart sink. This is international football and it is only about results. Trap is result man. He gets results and that all that matters to me. We really needed to qualify for a tournament and he has delivered on that so it is hard to argue with that

I can understand why some people have the knives out for him. He really does not give a fiddlers **** about what we think. He has made little or no attempt to speak the language. He interviews are a pile of dithering non sense. He has never watched a player. He ignores any player that is form.

noodler

noodler wrote: »

51 hours until our country does battle with the reigning World and Europan Champions with the whole world watching!

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

God, it's class when you hear it like that!

What?

Europan??

SantryRed

We need 4-5-1 to have any chance in all fairness. And with Duff and McGeady on the wings it'd actually suit us.

noodler

SantryRed wrote: »

We need 4-5-1 to have any chance in all fairness. And with Duff and McGeady on the wings it'd actually suit us.

I agree with Walters up top.

Usually I wouldn't agree but I will cry if we concede early again.

LuckyLloyd

ronsgonawin wrote: »

but I like most people know we are capable of alot better

"Know"? Based on what? We didn't qualify for '04 / '06 / '08

We were ranked 50th in the world. What is "alot better" for you? Define it. Be precise. Explain what such an assertion is predicated upon.

During 1986 - 1994 we were better, but we had far better players. In the run up to 2002 we were better but we had arguably the most effective player in the world on the pitch, and the players reacted savagely to the manner of his departure which saw us through the group.

Eveything that people are so sure would be better in terms of different players or tactics are untested. Where does this certainty of where we should be come from??

Orando Broom

noodler wrote: »

I agree with Walters up top.

Usually I wouldn't agree but I will cry if we concede early again.

I won't. I'll just lorry the pints into me. No let up. No heed, just pure lorrying.

LuckyLloyd

Conceding early against Spain would be a disaster...

ronsgonawin

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

"Know"? Based on what? We didn't qualify for '04 / '06 / '08

We were ranked 50th in the world. What is "alot better" for you? Define it. Be precise. Explain what such an assertion is predicated upon.

During 1986 - 1994 we were better, but we had far better players. In the run up to 2002 we were better but we had arguably the most effective player in the world on the pitch, and the players reacted savagely to the manner of his departure which saw us through the group.

Eveything that people are so sure would be better in terms of different players or tactics are untested. Where does this certainty of where we should be come from??

"Alot better" from me is being able to pass the ball!! That's it defined!!

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Some people have been chipping away at Trapp right since that Cyprus home game and the omission of Andy Reid. They complained all the way through the WC Campaign and were sharpening their knives in advance of the second leg in Paris - but a magnificent performance kept the grumbling at bay.

Then the next campaign began, we gritted it out against Armenia and the dissenters came out in full force. They bayed and bleated all the way through from there - were furious following Slovakia at home and wanted to lynch him after Russia away. There was constant hand wringing following the announcement of EVERY squad.

When the playoff draw was being made some were genuinely disappointed that we had Estonia, and later sick that we had done a great job away and secured qualification.

Then they saw the draw for the finals and licked their lips in anticipation of finally being 'proved right'. They froathed at the mouth when McClean wasn't instantly made a starter, and they tutted at our performance against Hungary.

I guess Sunday finally made their day?

Your portrayal of people who criticise Trap as wanting Ireland to lose is dishonest and childish.

You act like you have some special connection to the team because you agree with the managers decisions, whereas those who disagree are on the outside. It's not true. People expressing their opinion on a manager's decisions on a football forum are not committing some thought crime and selling their country out. They are doing nothing more than discussing football on a football forum.

When you lump everybody who has ever said something you disagree with on a wide range of issues related to Trap's reign into ''some people'' then it is easy to paint the many different arguments in a false light and pretend like everybody who has disagreed with Trap have been united and unreasonable on every occasion of disagreement.

Yeah, well done.

kev9100

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Conceding early against Spain would be a disaster...

On the other hand though, if Given and Dunne are in "God" mode and we hold out, just imagine how amazing that would be. Optimism Lives!

Father Damo

Orando Broom wrote: »

I thought this too. It was the main thing that worried me. One of the things I had underpinning our hopes was that we'd be the best conditioned team at the finals. I thoguht at the Bosnia game we looked great. full of running and sharp. I thought maybe one last day of hell in Italy would see a wind down of effort to the Croatia game. It seems the players were knackered by Hungary.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/competitions/euro-2012/9312639/Euro-2012-Giovanni-Trapattoni-rejects-talk-of-overtraining-his-Republic-of-Ireland-players-ahead-of-Croatia-opener.html

And I might imagine over- working the same 14 players in training could be the problem here tbh. Was it McGeady that demanded a rest day because he felt the first choice players were being trained to death, there certainly seemed to be a serious lack of momentum towards the end of the 2nd half. As full of hope as I was, beyond 70 odd the flow of the game in my mind had me knowing the Croats could see we were worn out and just needed to play it handy amongst themselves.

I still rate Trap but we need a serious re think. I reckon he will go backs to the wall for a goaless draw, same as in Moscow, and then try for a win against an Italy side that are not nearly as bad as their prior recent form suggested they were. It is a dangerous way of doing it, especially if Croatia win vs Italy, on 6 points, and leaves it a dogfight between the last 3 (Croatia with the pressure off, playing a second string side, would give Spain advantage in the last game, which if we only manage a draw against them is us as good as out. If Croatia have qualified by game 2, which I see as being likely, Spain will play against their second choice side whilst Jelavic and the likes are rested, and therefore will likely beat them. And with Italy fighting for their lives, dangerous mix. tbh with that set up for the final games a draw against Spain is not even good enough, and yet it is too hard to see a win)

Corholio

plasmaguy wrote: »

Sometimes I think Trap should just show the ungrateful bandwagoners who show up at tournament time and whose "education" of football comes from listening to Giles and Dunphy, both of whom had their go at qualifying as either manager or player and failed, the two fingers and quit.

Then we might get a proper manager like that Paul Jewell bloke or maybe Howard Wilkinson or Terry Venables.

We'd never qualify for any tournament but we'd play a nice brand of football.

Ah the good old fallacy that if we play or even attempt to play better football we'll be automatically crap.