Trap Watch

Pro. F

wonderfullife wrote: »

no.

By all means we should have opinions on selection and tactics etc but we should save the talk of the future i.e. Pilkington, Wilson, Hoolahan for after the tournament and focus our discussions on the here and now. It's our first major tournament in 10 years, personally i'd rather discuss who i would like to see playing tomorrow, in what formation etc than discussing Traps future or players for the future. And yeah a bit more "come on ireland" versus "Trap is a stubborn old man" would be more my cup of tea

You know there is a thread for that already and that nobody is forcing you to post in here yeah?

ronsgonawin

wonderfullife wrote: »

Speaking of which:

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Given

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O'Shea

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Dunne

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St. Ledger

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Ward

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Gibson

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Andrews

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Duff

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Keane

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McGeady

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Walters

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I just feel Walters is a better option for the long diagonals. Doyle played ok but has had a difficult season. Walters is in better form, slightly more pace and can hold the ball up. Italy got tremendous joy from long diagonals to Cassano. Granted, they had Pirlo to play those balls. I think Gibson is our best option passing wise so i'd have him in for that reason.

That would be my team, maybe long for Walters

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So put Duff in as an attacking midfielder and drop Keane?

Sounds like people are fixated about how 'modern' our formation is, and have decided that it must be 4 - 5 - 1 irrespective of its workability with the players that are at our disposal.

Paris seems instructive as how the 4 - 4 - 2 can work against superior opposition if the players are on it. I'd drop Whelan for Gibson and Doyle for Walters, but I'd otherwise stay with the formation that best fits the players and skillsets in our squad, and is the formation that they have worked on as a group ad nauseum.

After that it's about the players playing well and us getting a few bounces - as it always was at the outset of this tournament.

The Paris performance came about when the team did the opposite of Trap's normal tactics. The defence and midfield pushed up as a unit and pressured the opposition on the ball. And in possession the team looked for passes and attacked with some numbers. It wasn't a case of everything just clicking and the players being on it, it was a case of adopting more effective tactics after we were forced to go for a win. If we were to do that again now, then I'd be all for the 442 done that way. But we almost certainly won't.

I don't buy for one minute that Andrews and Whelan would have a more difficult time if we changed to 451 tomorrow. Currently they get overrun and leave space for the opposition all over the pitch. If a striker was dropped and an extra central midfielder put in then that would only help them.

LuckyLloyd

grenache wrote: »

Well us anti-Trap brigade have been proven right, as we knew we would. Not much point in keeping clean sheets against Estonia and Armenia if you're going to tactically and physically out-played against decent sides. When the likes of Armenia and Slovakia come to Dublin and dominate possession, you know you're in trouble.

The fact that Trap got us to the Euros has been rendered irrelevant by the pastings we took from Russia and Croatia, and are about to be given by Spain and Italy. I'd rather not qualify if we are going there just to be embarrassed.

Robbie Keane said last week that Ireland were not at the tournament to make up the numbers. With Trap and his anti-football, anti-winning tactics, it appears we are there for nothing else.

Bully for you! You must be absolutely delighted...:rolleyes:

But, eh, how exactly are defeats to sides who are:

- consistently ranked higher than us;
- have considerably more than us in the way of tournament pedigree and experience over the past 10 years;
- have players who are far better than ours technically and consistently turn out for sides of higher quality;

proof that you are "right"? Right about what? That Trapp can only turn the the water into plonk as opposed to fine champagne?

Yet again, I'll ask you what the level of expectation is against sides like this? Should we be beating Croatia and Russia? Should we be playing them off he park?

We got dominated in Moscow (a tough place to go for all comers over the decades) by a superior team (check out their first two games in this competition by the way); and we got beat on Sunday by a better team who got the bounce on the night too.

OH NOES!! BRING ME THE MANAGER'S HEAD POST HASTE!!

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

I'm not sure have you read anything that has been posted so far, but it has been said many times that formations don't have to be inherently defensive or attacking. Likewise, players functions don't have to be completely defensive or attacking.

Plenty of options to play in the hole ( Hoolahan, Pilkington ) and sitting further back should be our two best midfielders, McCarthy and Gibson.

Hoolahan / Pilkington / McCarthy aren't in the squad. I am fully aware that a formation doesn't have to be inherently defensive or attacking, but once you go to a three man central midfield based formation, you require the players at the center of the formation to fulfill certain roles.

The four central midfielders we have in the squad have played the majority of their club football as two way central midfielders.

People keep saying 'play 4 - 5 - 1' like it's something you can just decide to do on the day. Our squad hasn't practised it, and they largely don't have the skillset for it and they generally don't play it with their clubs.

And if this is a theoretical conversation over what to do for the 2014 Qualifiers or what we should have done for this tournament I really am wondering where people's heads are at. We play the reigning World and European champions in THIS tournament with THIS squad on THURSDAY.

So what if they haven't practiced it. 4-4-2 never fcuking works against the better teams who play 4-5-1. Russia, Slovakia, Croatia x2, and that's inthe last 12 months. We will be fcuking mauled tomorrow if things don't get changed. Or if we get a massive 10 slices of luck and Spain continually fluff their lines. Look how many chances poxy Hungary got on us last Monday week, do you think the likes of Iniesta/Torres/Fabregas/Xavi/Navas will fluff Their lines? Not a fcuking hope. I hope I'm not witnessing an absolute mauling tonorrow and we change it up.

wonderfullife

SantryRed wrote: »

So what if they haven't practiced it. 4-4-2 never fcuking works against the better teams who play 4-5-1. Russia, Slovakia, Croatia x2, and that's inthe last 12 months. We will be fcuking mauled tomorrow if things don't get changed. Or if we get a massive 10 slices of luck and Spain continually fluff their lines. Look how many chances poxy Hungary got on us last Monday week, do you think the likes of Iniesta/Torres/Fabregas/Xavi/Navas will fluff Their lines? Not a fcuking hope. I hope I'm not witnessing an absolute mauling tonorrow and we change it up.

To be honest i think formations and tactics will go out the window tomorrow and a large Green Bus Eireann bus will arrive outside Shay Givens goal and stay parked there for the whole match. We can debate 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 etc all day long but in practice it'll be 9 men behind the ball for 90 mins and hope we can catch a goal from a counter or setpiece.

SantryRed

wonderfullife wrote: »

SantryRed wrote: »

So what if they haven't practiced it. 4-4-2 never fcuking works against the better teams who play 4-5-1. Russia, Slovakia, Croatia x2, and that's inthe last 12 months. We will be fcuking mauled tomorrow if things don't get changed. Or if we get a massive 10 slices of luck and Spain continually fluff their lines. Look how many chances poxy Hungary got on us last Monday week, do you think the likes of Iniesta/Torres/Fabregas/Xavi/Navas will fluff Their lines? Not a fcuking hope. I hope I'm not witnessing an absolute mauling tonorrow and we change it up.

To be honest i think formations and tactics will go out the window tomorrow and a large Green Bus Eireann bus will arrive outside Shay Givens goal and stay parked there for the whole match. We can debate 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 etc all day long but in practice it'll be 9 men behind the ball for 90 mins and hope we can catch a goal from a counter or setpiece.

Should be ten men behind the ball though :pac:

TaosHum

wonderfullife wrote: »

To be honest i think formations and tactics will go out the window tomorrow and a large Green Bus Eireann bus will arrive outside Shay Givens goal and stay parked there for the whole match. We can debate 4-4-2, 4-5-1, 4-2-3-1 etc all day long but in practice it'll be 9 men behind the ball for 90 mins and hope we can catch a goal from a counter or setpiece.

Thats what I see happening also. The only thing that will upset that is if Spain get an early goal.

LuckyLloyd

TaosHum wrote: »

Thats what I see happening also. The only thing that will upset that is if Spain get an early goal.

If Spain get an early goal we're done. And that was always the case since the draw was made...

wonderfullife

i re-watched the Croatia game. After they scored it was noticeable our defensive line pushed up a bit. Maybe only 5 or 10 yards but definitely pushed up. Obviously needing a goal. When we got the equaliser, nothing really happened for 25 mins, they didnt pose us many problems. Couple of long range shots. Except we dropped deeper again.

I remember that famous shot of Robbie Keane against Estonia saying "lads they have 10 ****ing men!!!!". We need more leaders on the pitch to speak up and say come on to **** here lets go for this a bit more. What can Trap do on the sidelines? He can yank 3 guys off .....we need more leaders. And yeah im talking the likes of a Roy Keane figure.

I think that's something noticeable we lack at the moment. Not talking a player of Roy Keanes caliber but strong personalities who can affect the game on the pitch. I'm a big fan of Robbie Keane for what he has done for Ireland but running around waving his hands , appealing for every decision, is not the leadership we need. Duffer seems a quiet enough bloke, didn't see much communication going on at the back either.

At the end of the day it's 10 years since our last tournament and i hope it won't be 10 years until our next one, but we should go out and play tomorrow like it will be 10 years. If they give it 100% and we come off being beaten by the better side i don't think anybody will have any complaints. We need each and every one of them to run themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it.

briany

I fear Ireland will be even more nervous than with the Croatia game because they'll be playing defensively and, in all probability, for that one point. For Ireland, it will be all about clinging on in desperation. This means that it will only take one toe poke in the rabble during one of the likely many corners/free kicks Spain are likely to get and it's effectively all she wrote for Ireland.

wonderfullife

I think i speak for everyone in saying i would love it, keegan style, if we went to the Italy game still having a chance to qualify. It would just be such a brilliant match to look forward to know we have some chance to get out of the group.

TaosHum

briany wrote: »

I fear Ireland will be even more nervous than with the Croatia game because they'll be playing defensively and, in all probability, for that one point. For Ireland, it will be all about clinging on in desperation. This means that it will only take one toe poke in the rabble during one of the likely many corners/free kicks Spain are likely to get and it's effectively all she wrote for Ireland.

I actually think it will be the opposite. Pressure is all on Spain IMO as they are the huge favorites and because of the criticism Del Bosque has received over his selection.

For Ireland, the over-optimism that came with the Croatia game is all but gone and its been replaced with over-whelming pessimism. No one is expecting anything from this so, noting to lose really.

Pro. F

wonderfullife wrote: »

i re-watched the Croatia game. After they scored it was noticeable our defensive line pushed up a bit. Maybe only 5 or 10 yards but definitely pushed up. Obviously needing a goal. When we got the equaliser, nothing really happened for 25 mins, they didnt pose us many problems. Couple of long range shots. Except we dropped deeper again.

I remember that famous shot of Robbie Keane against Estonia saying "lads they have 10 ****ing men!!!!". We need more leaders on the pitch to speak up and say come on to **** here lets go for this a bit more. What can Trap do on the sidelines? He can yank 3 guys off .....we need more leaders. And yeah im talking the likes of a Roy Keane figure.

I think that's something noticeable we lack at the moment. Not talking a player of Roy Keanes caliber but strong personalities who can affect the game on the pitch. I'm a big fan of Robbie Keane for what he has done for Ireland but running around waving his hands , appealing for every decision, is not the leadership we need. Duffer seems a quiet enough bloke, didn't see much communication going on at the back either.

At the end of the day it's 10 years since our last tournament and i hope it won't be 10 years until our next one, but we should go out and play tomorrow like it will be 10 years. If they give it 100% and we come off being beaten by the better side i don't think anybody will have any complaints. We need each and every one of them to run themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it.

Pretty much each and every one of them runs themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it every game. I fùcking hate the way the players are getting the stick for the Croatia defeat.

wonderfullife

Pro. F wrote: »

Pretty much each and every one of them runs themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it every game. I fùcking hate the way the players are getting the stick for the Croatia defeat.

sigh you have some sort of chip on your shoulder!!

I know we give it our best every game but we need a Braveheart esque game, and to overuse that stupid cliche , need everyone to give it 110% :pac: I've defended the irish performance in every thread and post on this site. Sloppy goals, poor timing, and outplayed in general play.

Francie Barrett

Pro. F wrote: »

Pretty much each and every one of them runs themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it every game. I fùcking hate the way the players are getting the stick for the Croatia defeat.

Who has given any of the players stick? The tactics and team selection might have been wrong, but I don't think any of the players were accused of not being arsed.

Pro. F

wonderfullife wrote: »

sigh you have some sort of chip on your shoulder!!

I know we give it our best every game but we need a Braveheart esque game, and to overuse that stupid cliche , need everyone to give it 110% :pac: I've defended the irish performance in every thread and post on this site. Sloppy goals, poor timing, and outplayed in general play.

Your empty rhetoric about giving it 110% and your lamenting a lack of leadership on the pitch are both indirectly and directly criticising the players for the defeat.

LuckyLloyd

They give a lot every game, but I think it's fair to point out that there is some disparity in general effort levels between Croatia on Sunday and Paris 2009. Not much, but enough to make a crucial difference.

I do agree with you that such heroic efforts should be lauded when they are produced. We have no right to expect such sacrifice every game (it isn't really possible either). Their general effort levels are plenty.

Idbatterim

do you think the likes of Iniesta/Torres/Fabregas/Xavi/Navas will fluff Their lines?

No/YES/No/No/No

plasmaguy

SantryRed wrote: »

Should be ten men behind the ball though :pac:

10-0-0!

wonderfullife

granted i cant stand that clown, but Adrian Durham just now on talksport:

"ireland been the worst team of the tournament. i'm going for 3-0 to Spain. It'll be like Muhammad Ali boxing a dwarf (laughs)". He followed that by saying "england were the better team against France"

Ok he may very well be spot on about us but i'd just love it if we somehow prove the likes of him wrong. Beauty of it is we still have the chance to do that.

Orando Broom

Pro. F wrote: »

Pretty much each and every one of them runs themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it every game. I fùcking hate the way the players are getting the stick for the Croatia defeat.

Hang on a second. Trap did not coach Stephen Ward to roll a pass five yards behind Glen Whelan.

Ireland, the players played badly. A lot of players were off thier game. If you asked them they would, themselves feel they played badly. Trap did not do that.

I agree to a point with the sentiments of those who question the tactics but that is only one aspect. Had Ireland put in a Paris esque performance or even a performance like the second half against Russian in the Aviva they might well have snuck a draw.

The arguments here are becoming very entrenched with the viewpoints becoming more and more polarised. The Irish situation is a little more nuanced that manager tactics v players responsibility. both sides have to take a look at themselves.

Question, Pro F.

Do you think Ward, O'Shea, Given, Whelan, McGeady Keane or Doyle played well? Do you think they even played to their own acceptable levels?

I know that second part is difficult to answer but do you think they'd have come off the field with a feeling that they acquitted themselves. Personally I believe a lot of those players felt they let themselves down with a flat insipid performance. That is just my opinion. I have no evidence to prove my case, obviously.

plasmaguy

There's only so much Trap can do and once they cross the white line there isn't much more he can do, particularly if they are technically poor. You can have the greatest system in the world, but if you don't have players with a bear minimum of ability, then you will always struggle.

Let's be honest, Ireland is a team of journey men pros who usually fall out of favour at whatever club they are at. Sad to admit it but its true. We have no world class players anymore, just a good team spirit and discipline, which ironically Trap instilled.

We would not have qualified for the Euros without the discipline Trap instilled.

I think Trap has been a victim of his own success. Immediately before he came along, our ambition was to get a good result against Cyprus. Now people are wondering why we can't get a good result against Croatia, Spain and Italy. It was the same in Jack Charlton's era. Before Charlton, Ireland were a joke, Charlton takes over and people like Dunphy blame Charlton because we weren't in the WC semi final or something like that.

Again, Trap has worked miracles with a limited group of players, and anyone who argues our players aren't very limited is talking bull.

G.K.

There are some players who are less limited that Trap has had no time for.

briany

wonderfullife wrote: »

granted i cant stand that clown, but Adrian Durham just now on talksport:

"ireland been the worst team of the tournament. i'm going for 3-0 to Spain. It'll be like Muhammad Ali boxing a dwarf (laughs)". He followed that by saying "england were the better team against France"

Ok he may very well be spot on about us but i'd just love it if we somehow prove the likes of him wrong. Beauty of it is we still have the chance to do that.

Such a bad and lazy analogy.

It should be some, er, famous Spanish boxer versus, y'know, a leprechaun..........

plasmaguy

Like who? Foley? He's average to be honest, not even an international standard player, although neither is McShane.

He's given most players a chance.

I don't think chopping and changing every game to accommodate the flavour of the month would have helped us to be honest.

To accommodate McClean for example would mean dropping McGeady, and McGeady did alright in the qualifiers.

Pro. F

plasmaguy wrote: »

Like who? Foley? He's average to be honest, not even an international standard player, although neither is McShane.

He's given most players a chance.

You are such a deliberate spoofer it is unreal. He was obviously not talking about Foley and Trap has obviously given some players much less of a chance than others. I'm not even that interested in the other players debate, but when somebody puts a simple point to you you lie through your teeth and pretend you have the attention span of a gnat rather than treat their argument reasonably.

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

I think Trap has been a victim of his own success. Immediately before he came along, our ambition was to get a good result against Cyprus. Now people are wondering why we can't get a good result against Croatia, Spain and Italy. It was the same in Jack Charlton's era. Before Charlton, Ireland were a joke, Charlton takes over and people like Dunphy blame Charlton because we weren't in the WC semi final or something like that.

No, people are not wondering why we ant get results against Italy and Spain. Where has anyone suggested we should? Once again you just make stuff up and your comment on the pre charlton era is just plain, wilful ignorance and nothing else. We had great players and teams in the late 70's and 80's and with even a modicum of luck could have qualified.Your phrase 'something like that' sums you up really.

Coillte_Bhoy

plasmaguy wrote: »

Like who? Foley? He's average to be honest, not even an international standard player, although neither is McShane.

He's given most players a chance.

I don't think chopping and changing every game to accommodate the flavour of the month would have helped us to be honest.

To accommodate McClean for example would mean dropping McGeady, and McGeady did alright in the qualifiers.

He could have accommodated him on Sunday instead of Cox but hey you ignore the facts why not.

parasite

wonderfullife wrote: »

granted i cant stand that clown, but Adrian Durham just now on talksport:

"ireland been the worst team of the tournament. i'm going for 3-0 to Spain. It'll be like Muhammad Ali boxing a dwarf (laughs)". He followed that by saying "england were the better team against France"

Ok he may very well be spot on about us but i'd just love it if we somehow prove the likes of him wrong. Beauty of it is we still have the chance to do that.

That was Michael Robinson from here : http://www.as.com/english/articulo/michael-robinson-spain-vs-ireland/20120613dasdenspo_2/Tes

LuckyLloyd

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/internationals/euro-2012/spain-v-ireland/winner

Could people please look at the above and drink it in a little. Ireland are trading as far out as 14 / 1 to win tomorrow's game. People should try and keep things in perspective.

Let's say Trapp did exactly what some of you want. Had tried out every flavour of the month premiership player. Had spent time in matches and in training developing a 4 - 5 - 1 alternative. Had dropped Keane / started McClean or whatever else you're having for the craic. How much would all that increase our one in 14 chance against Spain?

Our opponents in this group are far better than we are. Keep believing that is all on the coach if you like.

Banjaxed82

So Trap has gone against a 46 game tradition and won't be naming his team til before kick off. Why now?

Coillte_Bhoy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/internationals/euro-2012/spain-v-ireland/winner

Could people please look at the above and drink it in a little. Ireland are trading as far out as 14 / 1 to win tomorrow's game. People should try and keep things in perspective.

Let's say Trapp did exactly what some of you want. Had tried out every flavour of the month premiership player. Had spent time in matches and in training developing a 4 - 5 - 1 alternative. Had dropped Keane / started McClean or whatever else you're having for the craic. How much would all that increase our one in 14 chance against Spain?

Our opponents in this group are far better than we are. Keep believing that is all on the coach if you like.

Dont think anyone is suggesting we would be anything other than huge underdogs tomorrow, regardless

The_B_Man

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

So Trap has gone against a 46 game tradition and won't be naming his team til before kick off. Why now?

Hopefully he's earning his wages with some master stroke !!

Banjaxed82

The_B_Man wrote: »

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

So Trap has gone against a 46 game tradition and won't be naming his team til before kick off. Why now?

Hopefully he's earning his wages with some master stroke !!

If he's delaying naming team only to change Walters for doyle then that's ridiculous.

Renn

Spanish won't know what hit them.

plasmaguy

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/internationals/euro-2012/spain-v-ireland/winner

Could people please look at the above and drink it in a little. Ireland are trading as far out as 14 / 1 to win tomorrow's game. People should try and keep things in perspective.

Let's say Trapp did exactly what some of you want. Had tried out every flavour of the month premiership player. Had spent time in matches and in training developing a 4 - 5 - 1 alternative. Had dropped Keane / started McClean or whatever else you're having for the craic. How much would all that increase our one in 14 chance against Spain?

Our opponents in this group are far better than we are. Keep believing that is all on the coach if you like.

You know the narrative of the anti Trap brigade as well as anyone by now, I'm sure Lucky.....our team of journey men/bottom half of the EPL pros would be world beaters if it wasn't for Trap holding them back which is what they usually argue. Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out.

I don't think there is any real alternative to Trap out there as manager of Ireland at the moment, so while he makes the occassional mistake as do all good managers, he's brought the team on a long way and laid some good foundations.

As for Trap being a bad tournament manager, the quality in the group stages of the Euros is usually far higher than the groups stages of a WC where you usually have weaker sides such as Saudi Arabia.

SirDelboy18

plasmaguy wrote: »

Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out.

Reading your posts is so frustrating.

Just to re-iterate for the 1000th time, Trap has good players at his disposal and either leaves them on the bench or doesn't pick them in the squad. Everybody is aware of what Trap has to deal with.

"Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out". - Dare I say, irony?

plasmaguy

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Reading your posts is so frustrating.

Just to re-iterate for the 1000th time, Trap has good players at his disposal and either leaves them on the bench or doesn't pick them in the squad. Everybody is aware of what Trap has to deal with.

"Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out". - Dare I say, irony?

Name me the good players and also the players you would drop without annoying them so much they'd pack it in?

A question for you and all the other Trap critics...do you think Trap should be sacked after the Euros if we lose our remaining two games?

And if you name McCarthy who was ruled out of the Euros, I'm just going to stick you on ignore as there is only so much I can take.

SirDelboy18

plasmaguy wrote: »

Name me the good players and also the players you would drop without annoying them so much they'd pack it in?

A question for you and all the other Trap critics...do you think Trap should be sacked after the Euros if we lose our remaining two games?

As I have said on page 4 of this thread, the following should be integrated into the squad: Clark, Pilkington, Hoolihan, Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy. Between them these players barely have 90 minutes of game time under Trap - an appalling fact.

Of the current squad, One or both of Long/Walters should be starting. McClean should be starting. Gibson should be starting. Kelly should be starting.

- In terms of Trap, I personally would want to know some alternatives. The last thing I want is somebody of Staunton's calibre. I think he has shown an unwillingness to adapt and give players a chance. I am personally sick of the fact that he persists with the wrong system and the wrong players, so yes, I would be in favour of getting rid of Trapattoni depending on who might come in.

ronsgonawin

plasmaguy wrote: »

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Reading your posts is so frustrating.

Just to re-iterate for the 1000th time, Trap has good players at his disposal and either leaves them on the bench or doesn't pick them in the squad. Everybody is aware of what Trap has to deal with.

"Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out". - Dare I say, irony?

Name me the good players and also the players you would drop without annoying them so much they'd pack it in?

A question for you and all the other Trap critics...do you think Trap should be sacked after the Euros if we lose our remaining two games?

And if you name McCarthy who was ruled out of the Euros, I'm just going to stick you on ignore as there is only so much I can take.

Can you put someone on ignore?

And again its not all about the players its the set up of the team and they way we play. Have you seriously ever watched a game, tell me a game in the last qualifier that we played well!

yomtea98

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

As I have said on page 4 of this thread, the following should be integrated into the squad: Clark, Pilkington, Hoolihan, Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy. Between them these players barely have 90 minutes of game time under Trap - an appalling fact.

Of the current squad, One or both of Long/Walters should be starting. McClean should be starting. Gibson should be starting. Kelly should be starting.

- In terms of Trap, I personally would want to know some alternatives. The last thing I want is somebody of Staunton's calibre. I think he has shown an unwillingness to adapt and give players a chance. I am personally sick of the fact that he persists with the wrong system and the wrong players, so yes, I would be in favour of getting rid of Trapattoni depending on who might come in.

Appaling but would it make that much differnce?Are they that much better than what we already have

Banjaxed82

yomtea98 wrote: »

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

As I have said on page 4 of this thread, the following should be integrated into the squad: Clark, Pilkington, Hoolihan, Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy. Between them these players barely have 90 minutes of game time under Trap - an appalling fact.

Of the current squad, One or both of Long/Walters should be starting. McClean should be starting. Gibson should be starting. Kelly should be starting.

- In terms of Trap, I personally would want to know some alternatives. The last thing I want is somebody of Staunton's calibre. I think he has shown an unwillingness to adapt and give players a chance. I am personally sick of the fact that he persists with the wrong system and the wrong players, so yes, I would be in favour of getting rid of Trapattoni depending on who might come in.

Appaling but would it make that much differnce?Are they that much better than what we already have

Are you actually serious?

plasmaguy

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

As I have said on page 4 of this thread, the following should be integrated into the squad: Clark, Pilkington, Hoolihan, Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy. Between them these players barely have 90 minutes of game time under Trap - an appalling fact.

Of the current squad, One or both of Long/Walters should be starting. McClean should be starting. Gibson should be starting. Kelly should be starting.

- In terms of Trap, I personally would want to know some alternatives. The last thing I want is somebody of Staunton's calibre. I think he has shown an unwillingness to adapt and give players a chance. I am personally sick of the fact that he persists with the wrong system and the wrong players, so yes, I would be in favour of getting rid of Trapattoni depending on who might come in.

Trap unlike his critics is not into chopping and changing to include flavour of the months, if he did he'd never have a settled team.

The team that almost qualified us for WC 2010 was a settled team and not a bad team either, so why drop players who were performing for players who are in and out of their club side such as Coleman, players who had long term injuries such as McCarthy and who withdraw from a squad for no good reason. Houlihan is not international standard I am sorry to say, so lets knock that one on the head. He'd be mauled against the likes of Italy and Spain, even you know that and you don't go trying out players when you need to do well in a game.

Clark, Pilkington and Wilson? seriously like!

Trap has been consistant, he keeps a consistant team, he doesn't experiement in crucial qualification matches which makes sense, as only an idiot would start experimenting in these games. He had tried out a lot of players in friendlies, but then again he also uses friendlies to improve his first 11.

As for being frustrated, I also get very frustrated with Trap's critics who'd have a different team every week to accomodate flavour of the month.

Chopping and changing during qualification would not do us much good.

yomtea98

Yes.If we played Mclean,Coleman,Walters,Hoolahan etc I feel we would play better but would still be beaten by Croatia like on Sunday,though not as badly

briany

The_B_Man wrote: »

Hopefully he's earning his wages with some master stroke !!

As far as I can see, with the squad he has and with the tactics he has used up 'til now, there's nothing that he'll come out with that's going to shake things up. I predict a change of two starting players and a slight rejigging of the forward setup.

plasmaguy

Banjaxed82 wrote: »

Are you actually serious?

Which players would you drop for the Spanish match and who would you replace them with?

ntlbell

plasmaguy wrote: »

Which players would you drop for the Spanish match and who would you replace them with?

What a bizzare thread.

But I think hunt has to start and will start. If he's not named tomorrow. I actually won't bother turning on the tele

gosplan

Pro. F wrote: »

Pretty much each and every one of them runs themselves into the ground and play like their lives depend on it every game. I fùcking hate the way the players are getting the stick for the Croatia defeat.

And with all due respect, that's why I said that you were on a rant and others have also alluded to it.

I would never question the work rate or commitment of our players. I know there's players starting that hate playing trap's way but would always give everything regardless. Come to think of it, the only person who enjoys it must be dunne because he's just asked to stick to what he does best and generally comes out like a hero. Everyone else is so constrained by the setup, which additionally insults the midfielders by basically labelling them all no-talent sh1tkickers ... but they still give everything, all of them.

What I started off this whole thing with was the comment that mentally, they weren't quite in the zone. Additionallly, I lay that responsibility at trap's doorstep because he prepares the team but shanked clearances, goals of second and third balls that we've been eating up for a few years now, conceding right at the start and right on either side of halftime - we didn't hit the ground running.

SirDelboy18

plasmaguy wrote:

79188564

The team that almost qualified us for WC 2010 was a settled team and not a bad team either, so why drop players who were performing for players who are in and out of their club side such as Coleman, players who had long term injuries such as McCarthy and who withdraw from a squad for no good reason. Houlihan is not international standard I am sorry to say, so lets knock that one on the head. He'd be mauled against the likes of Italy and Spain, even you know that and you don't go trying out players when you need to do well in a game.

Clark, Pilkington and Wilson? seriously like!

Okay, last response. I'm properly wondering if you have watched a game all season. Seriously.

Players who are in and out of their club side - Duff, Andrews, St.Ledger. If you recall Robbie Keane starting for us despite literally never playing for Tottenham I think that further buries your Coleman argument. Add to that the calibre of player Coleman competes with for a start.

With McCarthy, he was injured in 2010 for 3 months. The way you are going on you'd swear he had been out for 2 years. I don't care if he pulled out once, what is it to me. Who knows what else he had going on instead of that mickey mouse tournament. Fact is he is a top class player who must start.

Hoolihan not international standard? Strange how he has looked excellent against top class players this season.

And you questioning Clark, Pilkington and Wilson is pretty laughable. These players are all better than members of our squad in similar positions. And are young. Watch a game once in a while, it might do you some good. Come to think of it, has Trap ever been to a game? Similarities are eerie..