Trap Watch

plasmaguy

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Okay, last response. I'm properly wondering if you have watched a game all season. Seriously.

Players who are in and out of their club side - Duff, Andrews, St.Ledger. If you recall Robbie Keane starting for us despite literally never playing for Tottenham I think that further buries your Coleman argument. Add to that the calibre of player Coleman competes with for a start.

With McCarthy, he was injured in 2010 for 3 months. The way you are going on you'd swear he had been out for 2 years. I don't care if he pulled out once, what is it to me. Who knows what else he had going on instead of that mickey mouse tournament. Fact is he is a top class player who must start.

Hoolihan not international standard? Strange how he has looked excellent against top class players this season.

And you questioning Clark, Pilkington and Wilson is pretty laughable. These players are all better than members of our squad in similar positions. And are young. Watch a game once in a while, it might do you some good. Come to think of it, has Trap ever been to a game? Similarities are eerie..

So do you think Trap is good enough to manage the Irish team or not? Let's cut to the chase here because you seem to be implying he's made loads of mistakes and in reality he's a bad manager.

The way some of Trap's critics talk, you'd swear they think Steve Staunton done a better job than Trap. Thankfully Trap doesn't play to the gallery or listen to critics, if he did, we wouldn't be at the Euros.

ronsgonawin

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

plasmaguy wrote:

79188564

The team that almost qualified us for WC 2010 was a settled team and not a bad team either, so why drop players who were performing for players who are in and out of their club side such as Coleman, players who had long term injuries such as McCarthy and who withdraw from a squad for no good reason. Houlihan is not international standard I am sorry to say, so lets knock that one on the head. He'd be mauled against the likes of Italy and Spain, even you know that and you don't go trying out players when you need to do well in a game.

Clark, Pilkington and Wilson? seriously like!

Okay, last response. I'm properly wondering if you have watched a game all season. Seriously.

Players who are in and out of their club side - Duff, Andrews, St.Ledger. If you recall Robbie Keane starting for us despite literally never playing for Tottenham I think that further buries your Coleman argument. Add to that the calibre of player Coleman competes with for a start.

With McCarthy, he was injured in 2010 for 3 months. The way you are going on you'd swear he had been out for 2 years. I don't care if he pulled out once, what is it to me. Who knows what else he had going on instead of that mickey mouse tournament. Fact is he is a top class player who must start.

Hoolihan not international standard? Strange how he has looked excellent against top class players this season.

And you questioning Clark, Pilkington and Wilson is pretty laughable. These players are all better than members of our squad in similar positions. And are young. Watch a game once in a while, it might do you some good. Come to think of it, has Trap ever been to a game? Similarities are eerie..

Ha ha maybe he is trap. But you are right I doubt he has watch a game all season including the irish games. But he won't answer me anymore :-)

plasmaguy

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Ha ha maybe he is trap. But you are right I doubt he has watch a game all season including the irish games. But he won't answer me anymore :-)

When you say stupid things like that, is there any point answering you?

SirDelboy18

plasmaguy wrote: »

So do you think Trap is good enough to manage the Irish team or not? Let's cut to the chase here because you seem to be implying he's made loads of mistakes and in reality he's a bad manager.

-I think coming off Staunton anyone would look an improvement which has helped him.
-I think the 3 games against Italy x 2 and France away has given him more time, when in reality those teams were both in disarray.
-I think this campaign we have looked like being over-run too often.
-I think that had we drawn anyone other than Estonia we would not be here right now.
-I think that his team selections, his "system" and his decision making are poor. His treatment of players is very poor.
-I am happy that he has gotten us to a Euro's, but he is not the man to bring us forward. Depending on who might be available - there are plenty of young managers who might like a crack at it.

All my opinion. If he were to pick the best players and play a sensible formation then I would be happy for him to continue. But 4 years on, same story.

plasmaguy

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

-I think coming off Staunton anyone would look an improvement which has helped him.
-I think the 3 games against Italy x 2 and France away has given him more time, when in reality those teams were both in disarray.
-I think this campaign we have looked like being over-run too often.
-I think that had we drawn anyone other than Estonia we would not be here right now.
-I think that his team selections, his "system" and his decision making are poor. His treatment of players is very poor.
-I am happy that he has gotten us to a Euro's, but he is not the man to bring us forward. Depending on who might be available - there are plenty of young managers who might like a crack at it.

And you think he should be sacked after the Euros. Ok well at least you are honest about that, I give you credit for that. Many Trap critics are very evasive if you ask them should Trap be sacked.

ronsgonawin

plasmaguy wrote: »

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Ha ha maybe he is trap. But you are right I doubt he has watch a game all season including the irish games. But he won't answer me anymore :-)

When you say stupid things like that, is there any point answering you?

But plas you have to see where I'm coming from you are coming out with statements that make no sense, as pointed out by myself and previous posts. You come out with the same statement even though you have been proved to be wrong. It's not even personal opinion.

SirDelboy18

plasmaguy wrote: »

And you think he should be sacked after the Euros. Ok well at least you are honest about that, I give you credit for that. Many Trap critics are very evasive if you ask them should Trap be sacked.

All depending who is available. The last thing we need is to be taken back to Staunton levels. At least with Trap, we don't lose too often, somehow. But yes, I believe there are better options.

ntlbell

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

-I think coming off Staunton anyone would look an improvement which has helped him.
-I think the 3 games against Italy x 2 and France away has given him more time, when in reality those teams were both in disarray.
-I think this campaign we have looked like being over-run too often.
-I think that had we drawn anyone other than Estonia we would not be here right now.
-I think that his team selections, his "system" and his decision making are poor. His treatment of players is very poor.
-I am happy that he has gotten us to a Euro's, but he is not the man to bring us forward. Depending on who might be available - there are plenty of young managers who might like a crack at it.

All my opinion. If he were to pick the best players and play a sensible formation then I would be happy for him to continue. But 4 years on, same story.

You deal realise you're talking about one of the most successful/knoweldgeable/expirenced managers alive on the planet right now?

Just saying.

Who would you prefer? Pat Dolan? Collins? Tallaht Town FC's current manager? your primary school teacher?

ntlbell

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

At least with Trap, we don't lose too often, somehow.

Because he makes very good use out of a very limited bunch of players?

He does make what seem to me some odd desicions but it's probably you know something about him having a depth of knowedlege of football that's forgotten more about football than you or i will ever know or understand.

Orando Broom

ntlbell wrote: »

What a bizzare thread.

But I think hunt has to start and will start. If he's not named tomorrow. I actually won't bother turning on the tele

Hunt?? Are you that big into sheepdog trials?

SirDelboy18

ntlbell wrote: »

Because he makes very good use out of a very limited bunch of players?

Not even going there again.

ntlbell wrote: »

You deal realise you're talking about one of the most successful/knoweldgeable/expirenced managers alive on the planet right now?

Just saying.

Who would you prefer? Pat Dolan? Collins? Tallaht Town FC's current manager? your primary school teacher?

Yes I'm aware of who he is, what he may have accomplished in the past has absolutely no bearing on how he is performing in his current role.

In my opinion, we should look towards a good, young manager. That is the way forward and I agree with it.

Managers who we should look at: Malkay Mackay, Eddie Howe, Marcus Babbel, Luis Garcia Plaza. All people, who in my view, will be managing top clubs in the next 5 years. I would prefer to stay away from the likes of Curbishley who have been around forever.

Manager who I would love, but probably wouldn't come - Brian McDermott.

All just my opinion I must re-iterate.

briany

I think Hunt is quite a character and I like that but in no way do I think that means he should start over Duff or McGeady. Hunt sometimes makes a good impact sub because his energy and occasional unpredictability can ruffle opponents as well as give the team mates a lift. On the other hand, he doesn't possess the greatest amount of finesse.

Pro. F

Orando Broom wrote: »

Hang on a second. Trap did not coach Stephen Ward to roll a pass five yards behind Glen Whelan.

Obviously he didn't coach him to do that no, but players stringing passes together and playing their way out of trouble is something that requires more than just the coach not coaching them to do the opposite. It requires active coaching and practice and it is obviously something that the Irish team don't work on nearly enough in training. Limited and all as these players are, they play well below their ability for Ireland when it comes to stringing passes together.

Then you have the fact that Trap never selects players based on their link up play, but rather their work rate, discipline and other such factors. Every indication we have - from what we see on the pitch, from what we hear from Trap and the players and from the players Trap selects - is that keeping and using possession is not in any way prioritised or worked towards.

It was Ward giving away possession cheaply in this case. But it was nothing uncommon at all. It's the exact type of thing we see countless times in a game from all the players against all sorts of opposition, no matter how weak. When there is such a persistent pattern combined with the obvious direction of Trap's strategy then yeah, I absolutely blame Trap for us giving the ball away too much.

Orando Broom wrote: »

Ireland, the players played badly. A lot of players were off thier game. If you asked them they would, themselves feel they played badly. Trap did not do that.

I agree to a point with the sentiments of those who question the tactics but that is only one aspect. Had Ireland put in a Paris esque performance or even a performance like the second half against Russian in the Aviva they might well have snuck a draw.

The arguments here are becoming very entrenched with the viewpoints becoming more and more polarised. The Irish situation is a little more nuanced that manager tactics v players responsibility. both sides have to take a look at themselves.

Question, Pro F.

Do you think Ward, O'Shea, Given, Whelan, McGeady Keane or Doyle played well? Do you think they even played to their own acceptable levels?

I know that second part is difficult to answer but do you think they'd have come off the field with a feeling that they acquitted themselves. Personally I believe a lot of those players felt they let themselves down with a flat insipid performance. That is just my opinion. I have no evidence to prove my case, obviously.

The Ireland players under Trap always play like they played the other night. We always give up ridiculous amounts of space in front of the back four and end up relying on last ditch tackles and point blank saves, we always surrender possession too cheaply and we always are extremely blunt on the counter attack. The only difference was that this time the centre backs and keeper didn't bail us out. I guarantee you Orondo that if the Croatians' second goal had been correctly ruled out and if Keane's penalty had been correctly given and scored to finish the game 2-2 then most people would be lauding the performance as disciplined and gritty.

The performance in Paris, which was magnificent, came about when the team played in a way completely opposite to Trap's normal strategy and tactics. There was no chance of that type of performance the other night because we were following a plan that would not allow that to happen.

I don't agree that the second half against Russia was that much of a different performance to the 90 minutes against Croatia. You also have to take the temperature difference and time of season into account. The Irish players despite how much heart they show are not bottomless pits of stamina and playing defensive reactive football is very energy sapping.

With regards to the players you asked about specifically. I would say that Given was weak on the first goal, but he has saved our asses countless times, you cannot rely on that to happen every time. Ward was the same as normal - sometimes solid sometimes dodgy. Whelan was the same as normal - hopeless. O'Shea was normal - his demise is much over-hyped. McGeady did his usual. Keane did his usual and as usual he gets stick because he didn't score despite the fact that his performances are always the exact same and he scores about 50% of the time. Doyle played slightly better than he has the last while and won a good few headers.

If you actually asked the players I wouldn't be surprised if they feel like they played poorly. I wouldn't be surprised if they feel like they've played poorly after most Ireland games these days.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

They give a lot every game, but I think it's fair to point out that there is some disparity in general effort levels between Croatia on Sunday and Paris 2009. Not much, but enough to make a crucial difference.

I do agree with you that such heroic efforts should be lauded when they are produced. We have no right to expect such sacrifice every game (it isn't really possible either). Their general effort levels are plenty.

The Paris performance came about when we played with a completely different strategy and tactics. You can't ignore that.

Yeah, we definitely agree on the second bit.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

http://www.oddschecker.com/football/internationals/euro-2012/spain-v-ireland/winner

Could people please look at the above and drink it in a little. Ireland are trading as far out as 14 / 1 to win tomorrow's game. People should try and keep things in perspective.

Let's say Trapp did exactly what some of you want. Had tried out every flavour of the month premiership player. Had spent time in matches and in training developing a 4 - 5 - 1 alternative. Had dropped Keane / started McClean or whatever else you're having for the craic. How much would all that increase our one in 14 chance against Spain?

Our opponents in this group are far better than we are. Keep believing that is all on the coach if you like.

Bullshít. Nobody is saying that it's Trap's fault that we are 14/1 against Spain. You know that too. That is a Plasmaguy style of argument.

plasmaguy wrote: »

And you think he should be sacked after the Euros. Ok well at least you are honest about that, I give you credit for that. Many Trap critics are very evasive if you ask them should Trap be sacked.

Who have you asked on here whether Trap should be sacked? I bet you won't answer because once again you are making shít up.

Pro. F

gosplan wrote: »

And with all due respect, that's why I said that you were on a rant and others have also alluded to it.

I would never question the work rate or commitment of our players. I know there's players starting that hate playing trap's way but would always give everything regardless. Come to think of it, the only person who enjoys it must be dunne because he's just asked to stick to what he does best and generally comes out like a hero. Everyone else is so constrained by the setup, which additionally insults the midfielders by basically labelling them all no-talent sh1tkickers ... but they still give everything, all of them.

What I started off this whole thing with was the comment that mentally, they weren't quite in the zone. Additionallly, I lay that responsibility at trap's doorstep because he prepares the team but shanked clearances, goals of second and third balls that we've been eating up for a few years now, conceding right at the start and right on either side of halftime - we didn't hit the ground running.

The post where you said I was ranting and implied that I wouldn't reply to logic was nothing but logical and reasonable. You know that so stop lying.

I get the difference you are on about between the players putting effort in and being mentally on their game, but I don't agree with you that them not being in the zone was the difference between Sunday and other important games where we've got results, where Dunne and Given have been super human and we've had large slices of luck.

ntlbell

briany wrote: »

I think Hunt is quite a character and I like that but in no way do I think that means he should start over Duff or McGeady. Hunt sometimes makes a good impact sub because his energy and occasional unpredictability can ruffle opponents as well as give the team mates a lift. On the other hand, he doesn't possess the greatest amount of finesse.

We're going to play Spain. who the hell needs finesse???

we need "warriors" and mcgeady is no freaking warriror. there's no room for his sort of nonsense tomorrow.

SirDelboy18

ntlbell wrote: »

We're going to play Spain. who the hell needs finesse???

we need "warriors" and mcgeady is no freaking warriror. there's no room for his sort of nonsense tomorrow.

Then why is Robbie Keane playing? Furthest thing from "warrior" I could possibly imagine.

briany

ntlbell wrote: »

We're going to play Spain. who the hell needs finesse???

we need "warriors" and mcgeady is no freaking warriror. there's no room for his sort of nonsense tomorrow.

We need people who can make things happen. McGeady's not perfect but I'd look toward him to make things happen quite a bit more than Hunt. And yes, Ireland do need some finesse. They will have to try and actually play, impose themselves on the game somewhat because sitting back for 90 mins will be suicidal in terms of Ireland's chances. Spain will score if Ireland go backs to the wall, probably several times.

ntlbell

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Then why is Robbie Keane playing? Furthest thing from "warrior" I could possibly imagine.

Well I imagine he won't be playing in midfield for a start.

Wild guess.

SirDelboy18

ntlbell wrote: »

Well I imagine he won't be playing in midfield for a start.

Wild guess.

What difference does it make?

ntlbell

briany wrote: »

We need people who can make things happen.

not tomorrow, we need people who can _stop_ things happening. not run down the wing and fall over. It's not the day for it, if there ever is one.

briany wrote: »

McGeady's not perfect but I'd look toward him to make things happen quite a bit more than Hunt. And yes, Ireland do need some finesse. They will have to try and actually play, impose themselves on the game somewhat because sitting back for 90 mins will be suicidal in terms of Ireland's chances. Spain will score if Ireland go backs to the wall, probably several times.

Spain _will_ score if we have some ronaldo wannabe falling over the ball every 5 minutues down the wing. they _might_ not score if we can lift a few of them out of it in the midfield.

To think we can get the ball down and play around spain tomorrow is just not based in reality.

ntlbell

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

What difference does it make?

I give up what difference does having Robbie keane _not_ playing in irelands midfield against Spain compared to him playing up front.

is there a prize here.

BraziliaNZ

eek, don't be surprised if he bolsters the midfield with Paul Green!

SirDelboy18

ntlbell wrote: »

I give up what difference does having Robbie keane _not_ playing in irelands midfield against Spain compared to him playing up front.

is there a prize here.

You never mentioned midfield before. So less of the cynicism.

Strikers will need to be the first line of defense, will need to be combative, just like the midfield. Robbie Keane is none of those things.

Did I win the prize?

ntlbell

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

You never mentioned midfield before. So less of the cynicism.

Strikers will need to be the first line of defense, will need to be combative, just like the midfield. Robbie Keane is none of those things.

Did I win the prize?

Are you suggesting Robbie Keane doesn't close defenders down?

I'm starting to think maybe I or you are in the wrong thread and we're discussing different players/managers

I'm talking about ireland's most successful striker and one of the best managers in the world.

you seem to be talking about some guy who plays in the dodder.

maybe ronald kone?

plasmaguy

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

eek, don't be surprised if he bolsters the midfield with Paul Green!

If he does, then even I will be calling for him to be sacked.

I would drop McGeady, as people have pointed out, he will be redundant against the Spanish as he was against the Croatians. Techincally better players tend to hold the ball better than us and that won't change no matter what system we try or whether we try our best to keep the ball, it still won't change as these teams have the players to retain the ball better, example Xavi and Inniesta.

We will need workhorses tomorrow, so I'd favour Hunt who is a workhorse. Five man midfield, Hunt, Whelan, Andrews, Gibson and Duff.

Forget about us scoring from open play, there's little chance of that. Try to stop them scoring from open play, bring Keane back as well as a sixth midfielder if needs be, and hope to god we get a few setpieces and Dunne, St. Ledger or O'Shea nicks one.

SirDelboy18

ntlbell wrote: »

Are you suggesting Robbie Keane doesn't close defenders down?

I'm starting to think maybe I or you are in the wrong thread and we're discussing different players/managers

I'm talking about ireland's most successful striker and one of the best managers in the world.

you seem to be talking about some guy who plays in the dodder.

maybe ronald kone?

I'm certain Robbie Keane is not the "warrior" type that you have suggested Stephen Hunt is. Completely anonymous against Croatia. Robbie certainly doesn't have the work-rate of Doyle, Walters or even Long.

It's you, don't worry. But I'm done now. You think Stephen Hunt is a better option than James McClean. Don't know what to say to that. McClean offers a greater threat and has a good work rate. Clearly haven't watched him this year.

One of the best managers in the world, please. He had success in the past but is certainly not one of the best managers in the world currently.

noodler

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

eek, don't be surprised if he bolsters the midfield with Paul Green!

Thats not ****ing funny!

Orando Broom

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

eek, don't be surprised if he bolsters the midfield with Paul Green!

BAAAAANNNNN HIIIIIM!!!!!!'

Orando Broom

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

eek, don't be surprised if he bolsters the midfield with Paul Green!

BAAAAANNNNN HIIIIIM!!!!!!

monkey9

wonderfullife wrote: »

granted i cant stand that clown, but Adrian Durham just now on talksport:

"ireland been the worst team of the tournament. i'm going for 3-0 to Spain. It'll be like Muhammad Ali boxing a dwarf (laughs)". He followed that by saying "england were the better team against France"

Ok he may very well be spot on about us but i'd just love it if we somehow prove the likes of him wrong. Beauty of it is we still have the chance to do that.

Or maybe it'll be 1-0 to Ireland, you know, a bit like Muhammad Ali boxing George Foreman!!

briany

ntlbell wrote: »

not tomorrow, we need people who can _stop_ things happening. not run down the wing and fall over. It's not the day for it, if there ever is one.



Spain _will_ score if we have some ronaldo wannabe falling over the ball every 5 minutues down the wing. they _might_ not score if we can lift a few of them out of it in the midfield.

To think we can get the ball down and play around spain tomorrow is just not based in reality.

Ireland are all about stopping things happening, usually in the final third before their own goal, that's pretty much the team's M.O. but in light of Sunday's performance that tac will need some modification . One way to stop things happening would be to try and not give the ball to the Spanish and certainly not needlessly as we saw happen so often vs. Croatia (and many other times). Whatever way you look at it, this does mean getting on the ball, players working for each other all over the pitch, and trying to dictate things somewhat.

ntlbell

briany wrote: »

Ireland are all about stopping things happening, usually in the final third before their own goal, that's pretty much the team's M.O. but in light of Sunday's performance that tac will need some modification . One way to stop things happening would be to try and not give the ball to the Spanish and certainly not needlessly as we saw happen so often vs. Croatia (and many other times). Whatever way you look at it, this does mean getting on the ball, players working for each other all over the pitch, and trying to dictate things somewhat.

That's why we deploy Gibson, someone who can dictate a bit pick out some nice passes and as much as one can against spain try and keep possesion.

aidan just won't give you this, plus his concentration levels for defending are non existant, again. balanced up against what he gives you going forward you can't accept this as you could for say nani or ronaldo.

so ciao ciao

briany

ntlbell wrote: »

That's why we deploy Gibson, someone who can dictate a bit pick out some nice passes and as much as one can against spain try and keep possesion.

aidan just won't give you this, plus his concentration levels for defending are non existant, again. balanced up against what he gives you going forward you can't accept this as you could for say nani or ronaldo.

so ciao ciao

Gibson at best would be a slight improvement over Whelan but a game changer he would not. McGeady has been able to get himself into crossing positions and his end product has come on a long way. It's a pity his position is not under much threat as it really seemed to raise him up a gear when it seemed it was.

"ciao ciao"....Jaysus.

noodler

Doyle and Keane won't be dropped.

Yet Keane can't play up front on his own.

So....I assume Trap will just play Walters and Keane.

But if Walters' recent form is anything to go by then he will make the ball stick a bit better and maybe we can actually get stepped up for a portion of the game.

G.K.

plasmaguy wrote: »

You know the narrative of the anti Trap brigade as well as anyone by now, I'm sure Lucky.....our team of journey men/bottom half of the EPL pros would be world beaters if it wasn't for Trap holding them back which is what they usually argue. Most are completely disconnected from the reality of the quality of player Trap has to deal with day in day out.

I don't think there is any real alternative to Trap out there as manager of Ireland at the moment, so while he makes the occassional mistake as do all good managers, he's brought the team on a long way and laid some good foundations.

As for Trap being a bad tournament manager, the quality in the group stages of the Euros is usually far higher than the groups stages of a WC where you usually have weaker sides such as Saudi Arabia.

This is getting beyond a joke. Stop misrepresenting what people say. Final warning.

[-0-]

http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/2012/0613/324900-trapattoni-calls-on-players-to-adhere-to-game-plan/

Looks to me like there won't be many changes and we'll play similar to how we did against Croatia.

This is my best guess at the lineup for tomorrow.

---

Given

---

O'Shea, St. Ledger, Dunne, Ward
McGeady, Whelan, Gibson, Andrews, Duff,

---

Keane

---

I would prefer to see:

---

Given

---

---

O'Shea, Dunne, Ward

---

---

St. Ledger

---

---

Whelan, Gibson, Andrews

---

McClean

---

Duff--

---

Cox

---

Adolf Hipster

plasmaguy wrote: »

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

As I have said on page 4 of this thread, the following should be integrated into the squad: Clark, Pilkington, Hoolihan, Wilson, Coleman, McCarthy. Between them these players barely have 90 minutes of game time under Trap - an appalling fact.

Of the current squad, One or both of Long/Walters should be starting. McClean should be starting. Gibson should be starting. Kelly should be starting.

- In terms of Trap, I personally would want to know some alternatives. The last thing I want is somebody of Staunton's calibre. I think he has shown an unwillingness to adapt and give players a chance. I am personally sick of the fact that he persists with the wrong system and the wrong players, so yes, I would be in favour of getting rid of Trapattoni depending on who might come in.

Trap unlike his critics is not into chopping and changing to include flavour of the months, if he did he'd never have a settled team.

The team that almost qualified us for WC 2010 was a settled team and not a bad team either, so why drop players who were performing for players who are in and out of their club side such as Coleman, players who had long term injuries such as McCarthy and who withdraw from a squad for no good reason. Houlihan is not international standard I am sorry to say, so lets knock that one on the head. He'd be mauled against the likes of Italy and Spain, even you know that and you don't go trying out players when you need to do well in a game.

Clark, Pilkington and Wilson? seriously like!

Trap has been consistant, he keeps a consistant team, he doesn't experiement in crucial qualification matches which makes sense, as only an idiot would start experimenting in these games. He had tried out a lot of players in friendlies, but then again he also uses friendlies to improve his first 11.

As for being frustrated, I also get very frustrated with Trap's critics who'd have a different team every week to accomodate flavour of the month.

Chopping and changing during qualification would not do us much good.

Please seek medical help because you're a complete idiot.

TheDoc

I've an opinion on the irish team that divides opinion between my mates anyway.

I was never a Trap supporter from day one. It was a very indictive and obvious path of what style of football we were going to play. And for a gent of his age, who had a very trusted system that simply does not work at international level, nevermind with our calibre of players, it was going to tough to watch.

I've gone completely off watching Ireland play and attending matches, I'm not paying those criminal prices to watch the dross we attempt on the pitch.

Looking at the players we deploy and use it leaves little to be proud off, and even moreso to get excited about. I couldn't believe the bollox people were talking about us having a chance. And when I'd put forward my realistic outlook on the tournament I was branded as "having no national pride" and being a pessimistic ****e.

I'm sorry for predicting we would lose all three games, and be lucky to score, but in my view its silly to think we would get anything out of this tournament. The calibre of player we use and the style is just shocking and a recipe to get slaughtered. There are supposidly weaker teams then us there? Bollox, we are by miles the weakest. The Ukraine and Poland are even playing decent passages of play.

The utilisation of Simon Cox, a West Brom striker who has played less then 50 games in 3 years, and spends most of his time on the bench or in the reserves, coming on ahead of the breakthrough Irish talent in the premier league, was the straw that broke the camels back for me, and I turned the game off and went about other business.

Unfortunately it would appear we have to deal with Trap until the end of his contract, where I hope he and all his staff are let go. The prospect Tardelli will be taking over makes me extremely dissapointed, as it will be a continuation of a poor interpretation of our team and nation.

I would personally like a young enough manager, doesn't neccesaraily have to have experience of international football, to take us through a learning process. To develop a passing and possession game that we can be proud of and actually want to watch and support. To implement what pretty much every other country and club does IN THE WORLD. Get a system that promotes ability and technical skill, and have it as the staple point throughout the age groups of our national setup. Not what we have currently have, 4 different systems outside of the senior team.

Glen Whelan, Keith Andrews, Paul Green (I cant believe he plays for Ireland) while great at working hard and running, that means absolutely 0 for a midfield with zero ability. And maybe they do, but the system we play essentially fires the ball over them time and time again, you can see in games they dont even drop into areas to pickup the ball.

If anyone tells me that this is the best the country has to offer in the centre of the park, shoot me stone dead. Trap can give me a ring and I'll give him directions to the local team so he can have a nosey at a few lads who have technical ability in the middle of the park....

It's a pretty dire affair, and while it was great to have our team at the Euros, I take very little from the fact we are the whipping boys and considered a really really poor team, and anyone loosing to us is a potential crisis talk for their respective manager. Thats the way the foreign press report it, and thats pretty sad for a team in the Euros, and moreso for what we have been led to believe about our " solid team".

I fully expect a royal spanking by Spain, and Italy ( cant believe the gob****es that thought Italy would be the whipping boys of this group) and hopefully its a wake up call. There are too many poor players in our squad and I don't want to believe its the best we can muster.

I don't believe for one second the ****e people spout about " o the calibre of players he has to deal with". Yes, he does have to deal with poor quality players, because he is picking poor quality squads. There is absolutely NOTHING to loose from playing younger more creative and technically gifted players, and there is a serious amount to gain.

Looking at the squad there on the UEFA website is pretty sad reading. But considering we are going to get an education against Spain, with one last meaningless game against Italy I'd probably want a line up off

Westwood
O-Shea ----Dunne---St Ledger---Kelly
Hunt---Gibson---Andrews----McClean
Walters
Long

Westwood is looks to be the longterm replacement for Given. I'd be getting him bled here and to be honest, I'd be starting him more often for the national side. Won't get into my Given thing, its even more opinion dividing.

Ward for me is poor. His one job in possesion that was asked was to hoof balls long, which he couldn't do with any degree of accuracy. Not first team standard.

I'd be looking for two new centre halves. Dunne while showing some heroic displays, is having a torrid time at club level, and indications are hes back to not looking after himself. St.Ledger is at the best of times struggling to impress in the Championship...need a look through the younger levels here and promote some young centre halves, McShane is a durt backup.

Duff actually showed a bit of a suprise performance in terms of little bursts of pace, good to see he still falls over like a feather winning us those free kicks. Coleman should be getting the nod each and every time when fit.

McGeady, I'm not a fan off at all. His development went completely off the beating track and he is now a very much under average winger. Dont see a way for him to get back on track. McClean to get the nod everytime if his developement keeps on track.

Paul Green, I shouldn't have to go into, although should be providing a massive boost for all young irish players that literally anyone can get into the squad regardless of ability.

Whelan is a decent workhorse, and to be fair "might" posses some sort of passing ability, but its not being asked of him. Watching him for Stoke he doesnt seem that great, and really should only be utilised in a three man centre midfield.

I'd have Gibson in simply because he is getting regular game time for Everton and using it well, he could very much get his developement back on track and become a decent midfielder. Not great, but solid and decent, which is better then what we have. Andrews I'd leave there simply because we don't have options, but if McCarthy comes into the fold he'd be in instead of Andrews, with Gibson playing a more secluded holding role.

Keane should be hanging up his boots. Great servant, but a passenger at this stage. His move to the US had very little to do with football and we have a few options now. If long continues in the decent form hes showed at West Brom, should be a considerable replacement.

Doyle is a mystery. Hes our Dirt Kuty except without any sort of goal return or threat. Spent most of the season either injured or on the bench with Wolves. Walters has been decent for Stoke, becoming a main stay and has the added benefit of actually being rather intellegent when not in possession. If we need a big man up top, then go for him.

Bit of a novel post, but everyone is passionate about its national team. Unfortunately my passion is mostly with the continued disappointment at being one of the poorest teams in Europe, and having to put up with just rubbish play every game. And I can hold my hand up and say that I was of this negative opinion of the manager from the start, and not having an OTT reaction to be being beaten by a vastly superior side.

LuckyLloyd

SirDelboy18 wrote: »

Not even going there again.



Yes I'm aware of who he is, what he may have accomplished in the past has absolutely no bearing on how he is performing in his current role.

In my opinion, we should look towards a good, young manager. That is the way forward and I agree with it.

Managers who we should look at: Malkay Mackay, Eddie Howe, Marcus Babbel, Luis Garcia Plaza. All people, who in my view, will be managing top clubs in the next 5 years. I would prefer to stay away from the likes of Curbishley who have been around forever.

Manager who I would love, but probably wouldn't come - Brian McDermott.

All just my opinion I must re-iterate.

Why does youth matter? It hasn't stopped Alex Ferguson or Del Bosque the past few years.

'We need young players.' 'We need a young manager.'

Football Manager has a lot to answer for imo.

LuckyLloyd

Pro. F wrote: »

The performance in Paris, which was magnificent, came about when the team played in a way completely opposite to Trap's normal strategy and tactics.

The myth that the players disregarded Trapp's instructions in Paris repeated as fact makes me very sad.

ironbluedun

We are by far the worst team in the tournament and to get anything from this match would be a miracle akin to the resurrection.
Keane should be replaced his goose is cooked.

noodler

ironbluedun wrote: »

We are by far the worst team in the tournament and to get anything from this match would be a miracle akin to the resurrection.
Keane should be replaced his goose is cooked.

We are not the worst.

We are better than Poland and Ukraine. I don't care that they have been secent over two fcuking games.

We have been decent over two qualifying campaigns.

I seriously wonder if people just tune in for the Championships and forget everything that has gone before.

Renn

Jesus, I wish I could forget the last few years of Irish football. Early to say who's the worst in the tournament etc but Ireland surely down there in that category. Poland and Ukraine have shown far more to suggest that they're above that status.

BraziliaNZ

Maybe the team should wear sleeveless shirts a la Cameroon and scare them with their hilarious House of Pain tattoos

ronsgonawin

noodler wrote: »

We are not the worst.

We are better than Poland and Ukraine. I don't care that they have been secent over two fcuking games.

We have been decent over two qualifying campaigns.

I seriously wonder if people just tune in for the Championships and forget everything that has gone before.

Hold on a minute, did YOU not watch the qualifying campaign, because this happening was plain for everybody to see.

BraziliaNZ

If we can keep them scoreless for half an hour, they'll start to lose the head, and do something desperate, like bring on a striker.

Renn

Hopefully Ireland combat that by doing something equally desperate by bringing on Paul McShane.

Banjaxed82

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

If we can keep them scoreless for half an hour, they'll start to lose the head, and do something desperate, like bring on a striker.

I don't know. Maybe if Spain aren't getting any clear cut chances; hitting bars, last ditch tackles, Given heroics, then maybe they'll panic.

But if their chances involve all the above, then Spain will just chip away with the belief that it's only a matter of time.

ooPabsoo

noodler wrote: »

We are better than Poland and Ukraine. I don't care that they have been secent over two fcuking games.

Ah come on now, whatever about Ukraine, we're definitely not better than Poland.