Trap Watch

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

The performance in Paris, which was magnificent, came about when the team played in a way completely opposite to Trap's normal strategy and tactics.

The myth that the players disregarded Trapp's instructions in Paris repeated as fact makes me very sad.

Can you not see the fact we haven't played with those tactics in any other game under Trapp??????

SantryRed

noodler wrote: »

ironbluedun wrote: »

We are by far the worst team in the tournament and to get anything from this match would be a miracle akin to the resurrection.
Keane should be replaced his goose is cooked.

We are not the worst.

We are better than Poland and Ukraine. I don't care that they have been secent over two fcuking games.

We have been decent over two qualifying campaigns.

I seriously wonder if people just tune in for the Championships and forget everything that has gone before.

We have not been decent. We've been tremendously lucky. Truckloads of luck going back to 09. Only thing that went against us was the French game.

SantryRed

If the rumors are true that it's Cox and Keane are up top tonight then Trappatoni should be checked to make sure he's not gone senile. Truly baffled. We are gonna be tonked.

firemansam4

Player for Player we have to be almost the worst or the worst team in these championships - most of our players are playing there domestic game at a level below most players from other teams

we do not have the same quality of players we ever had before in getting to any of the European or world cup finals.

Regardless of what happens in the next 2 games Trap has performed a miracle in getting us to this one!

ronsgonawin

SantryRed wrote: »

If the rumors are true that it's Cox and Keane are up top tonight then Trappatoni should be checked to make sure he's not gone senile. Truly baffled. We are gonna be tonked.

Where did you hear that? Really hope they are only rumours

ronsgonawin

firemansam4 wrote: »

Player for Player we have to be almost the worst or the worst team in these championships - most of our players are playing there domestic game at a level below most players from other teams

we do not have the same quality of players we ever had before in getting to any of the European or world cup finals.

Regardless of what happens in the next 2 games Trap has performed a miracle in getting us to this one!

Most of our players play in the Premier league, which is the best league in the world! Your point is completely inaccurate

I may add that we could have a full team of consistent starters for mid table premier league clubs, which is a dam sight better that the majority of teams in this tournament

Renn

Most of our players play in the Premier league, which is the best league in the world!

ronsgonawin

Renn wrote: »

good point well made!!!

SantryRed

Anyone want a ticket to the game tonight? :pac: I'm very nervous we are going to be embarrassed in front of the whole world tonight. Least I'll see Xaviesta in action!

firemansam4

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Most of our players play in the Premier league, which is the best league in the world! Your point is completely inaccurate

I may add that we could have a full team of consistent starters for mid table premier league clubs, which is a dam sight better that the majority of teams in this tournament

or maybe we could have a full team of players of our players who could be playing for a team like wolves that would just get relegated to the championship!

I think that would be a far more realistic suggestion than yours saying that they would be a mid table club!! :pac:

jmayo

ntlbell wrote: »

You deal realise you're talking about one of the most successful/knoweldgeable/expirenced managers alive on the planet right now?

Just saying.

Who would you prefer? Pat Dolan? Collins? Tallaht Town FC's current manager? your primary school teacher?

I wish to feck people wouldn't drag this out everytime someone challenges Traps management decisions for Ireland.
Yes he has a good record, a great record, but that was in the distant PAST.

This BS is like saying Paul McCartney brings out brilliant albums today because he was in the Beatles and brought out decent albums in the 70s.
Or that Robert Redford is still a fantasstic leading man becuase he was one in the 70s.

Times change and the medium in which people work be it music, movies or indeed football also change.
People who were once at the top of their game, lose it.
I wish people could face that bloody fact.

noodler wrote: »

We are not the worst.

We are better than Poland and Ukraine. I don't care that they have been secent over two fcuking games.

We have been decent over two qualifying campaigns.

I seriously wonder if people just tune in for the Championships and forget everything that has gone before.

Yeah I have forgotten the mauling we got by Russia and how we scraped by Armenia :rolleyes:

Renn wrote: »

Hopefully Ireland combat that by doing something equally desperate by bringing on Paul McShane.

That would throw all of Del Bosques plans awry.

SantryRed wrote: »

If the rumors are true that it's Cox and Keane are up top tonight then Trappatoni should be checked to make sure he's not gone senile. Truly baffled. We are gonna be tonked.

I do reckon he has Alyzeimers or something.
There has to be some rational explanation why he would see Cox as a better bet to put on ahead of one of the best new wingers in the last 6 months of the premiership ?

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Most of our players play in the Premier league, which is the best league in the world! Your point is completely inaccurate

Ehh most of our players play in at best mid table teams in the Premiership.
How many players do we have in the top teams ?
The gulf in class between the top 5 or 6 in the PL and the rest is huge.

We have three front line players who played with the worst team in the league.
We have another two defenders who played with a team that scraped by relegation.
Granted they are two of our and that clubs best.

ronsgonawin wrote: »

I may add that we could have a full team of consistent starters for mid table premier league clubs, which is a dam sight better that the majority of teams in this tournament

Do we have one world class player in our squad ?
Do we have one player who played Champions League or even top Europa League football ?
The sad thing with Trap is even if we did have some of those he would probably ignore them.

TheDoc

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Most of our players play in the Premier league, which is the best league in the world! Your point is completely inaccurate

He is very much spot on lets go through it in some harrowing detail

Given
Part of a Villa side who were dirt this season. Can't fault him too much, I dont want a big Given post, but I think the praise he got over the years was OTT. Good shot stopper, lacked positional play, prescence in the box and distribution. But I'm happy we have him and hes done well for us big time.

Westwood
9 appearances last season

St Ledger
Leicester have wanted to move him on for a while. Was struggling to break into the team in the Championship and a deal to move him on was on the cards in Jan. African cup of nation departures forced the manager to keep him. Hes got games when Leicster were desperate.

Dunne
Again part of a rubbish Villa side who were terrible this year. His formidable partnership with Collins looked on the rocks, and alot of talk was that he'd stopped looking after himself as he was previously. Looked pretty poor in the league this season.

Ward
A long stint at Wolves that resulted in alot of positional changes and one solid season. Relegated last year and exposed horribly at left back

McGeady
Once claimed by Celtic colleagues " Can be as good as Messi". His developement went sideways after he started believeing his own hype and he has drifted of into below mediocrity.

Duff
Had a few peak years but never got back to them, still the best diver in the game not to be labelled a diver, but hes past it now.

Whelan
For a long time sat in the Stoke reserves and struggled to impress. Had more of an impact this season but I think it was down to lack of midfield resources on their part.

Andrews
31 years old, has had a pretty lackluster couple of years. The blackburn move was due to Ince who got the boot pretty fast, and he was stuck in a club where the management didnt rate him, did ok at Ipswich and its debatable how he will do at West brom with less then 20 games there.

Keane
Moved to the USA, no one in the premier league were interested, got serious money and happy misses and mother in law. His career finished when he took the move, and in fairness he has been pretty poor over there hampered by injuries and lackluster performances

Doyle
Couldn't get a game for the PL whipping boys last season, granted having a lay off with injury.

Cox
Less then 50 games or something for West Brom in three seasons. Spends most of his time on the bench or playing for the reserves.

Paul Green
Mist most of the season with injury, and then got dropped from the squad with Derby. He doesnt actually have a club at the moment....

Paul McShane
Hull have loaned him to two clubs , where he has played less then 12 games for both. They couldnt pay someone to take him. Barnsley finish 21st in the Championship...

And I could go on and on.

But I think I've made my point...

Looking in the squad, McClean, Long, Kelly, Gibson, O Shea and Walters are really the only players that have had in anyway shape or form consistent decent season for their clubs....

And are on the bench...

ronsgonawin

firemansam4 wrote: »

or maybe we could have a full team of players of our players who could be playing for a team like wolves that would just get relegated to the championship!

I think that would be a far more realistic suggestion than yours saying that they would be a mid table club!! :pac:

WHAT??

noodler

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Hold on a minute, did YOU not watch the qualifying campaign, because this happening was plain for everybody to see.

?
What was clear to see?

jmayo wrote: »

Yeah I have forgotten the mauling we got by Russia and how we scraped by Armenia

Please don't roll your eyes - it weakens your points considerably.

If you have forgotten that, have you forgotten that we were the only team to get 6 points from Armenia in qualifying? That they trounced Slovakia 3-1 and 0-4? Theat they held the Russians in Yerevan?

The Armenian stick really is a curious weapon with which to beat this Irish team.

SantryRed wrote: »

We have not been decent. We've been tremendously lucky. Truckloads of luck going back to 09. Only thing that went against us was the French game.

Ah come on - you are a much better poster than that.

That Trap has been a lucky manager is without question (Georgia in neutral Mainz, mystery penalty in the home Georgia game, Russia away, drawing Estonia etc and probably a few other subjective points relating to performances where we could have lost but didn't).

However, we are talking about performances over two qualfiying campaigns in which we lost just two games to France and Russia. We haven't lost an away competititive game under Trap, we beat France over 90 minutes, we resigned our Cyprus nightmares to the past with back-to-back wins, we held our nerve in Yerevan when no other team in the group could, and we have consistently gotten wins against the lower seeds in our groups which of course is a necessity).

Thats not even mentioning Paris.

What you may mean is we have rarely been attractive but that is not the sole factor in deciding results. Being resolute, concentrating and working your arse off have shown that we have been decent.

Christ, we have gone up around 25 places in the rankigns since Trap took over, have been runners-up in our groups twice and would have been good value to get to the last World Cup.

I am sorry SantryRed, I understand you might be coming from a purist point of view but I am not going to take away the fact the this group of players, no matter their style or ability, have at least been decent since Trap took over.

ronsgonawin

TheDoc wrote: »

He is very much spot on lets go through it in some harrowing detail

Given
Part of a Villa side who were dirt this season. Can't fault him too much, I dont want a big Given post, but I think the praise he got over the years was OTT. Good shot stopper, lacked positional play, prescence in the box and distribution. But I'm happy we have him and hes done well for us big time.

Westwood
9 appearances last season

St Ledger
Leicester have wanted to move him on for a while. Was struggling to break into the team in the Championship and a deal to move him on was on the cards in Jan. African cup of nation departures forced the manager to keep him. Hes got games when Leicster were desperate.

Dunne
Again part of a rubbish Villa side who were terrible this year. His formidable partnership with Collins looked on the rocks, and alot of talk was that he'd stopped looking after himself as he was previously. Looked pretty poor in the league this season.

Ward
A long stint at Wolves that resulted in alot of positional changes and one solid season. Relegated last year and exposed horribly at left back

McGeady
Once claimed by Celtic colleagues " Can be as good as Messi". His developement went sideways after he started believeing his own hype and he has drifted of into below mediocrity.

Duff
Had a few peak years but never got back to them, still the best diver in the game not to be labelled a diver, but hes past it now.

Whelan
For a long time sat in the Stoke reserves and struggled to impress. Had more of an impact this season but I think it was down to lack of midfield resources on their part.

Andrews
31 years old, has had a pretty lackluster couple of years. The blackburn move was due to Ince who got the boot pretty fast, and he was stuck in a club where the management didnt rate him, did ok at Ipswich and its debatable how he will do at West brom with less then 20 games there.

Keane
Moved to the USA, no one in the premier league were interested, got serious money and happy misses and mother in law. His career finished when he took the move, and in fairness he has been pretty poor over there hampered by injuries and lackluster performances

Doyle
Couldn't get a game for the PL whipping boys last season, granted having a lay off with injury.

Cox
Less then 50 games or something for West Brom in three seasons. Spends most of his time on the bench or playing for the reserves.

Paul Green
Mist most of the season with injury, and then got dropped from the squad with Derby. He doesnt actually have a club at the moment....

Paul McShane
Hull have loaned him to two clubs , where he has played less then 12 games for both. They couldnt pay someone to take him. Barnsley finish 21st in the Championship...

And I could go on and on.

But I think I've made my point...

Looking in the squad, McClean, Long, Kelly, Gibson, O Shea and Walters are really the only players that have had in anyway shape or form consistent decent season for their clubs....

And are on the bench...

You have named 6 players at the end who are all starters, thats half a team!! your rather long winded post just left out the best players to make you look good.

TheDoc

I'd have to agree to some point with the above, you can't argue with the results, but there has definitely being a large amount of riding or luck.

And as pointed out by the RTE panel we have a tendancy to surrender possession alot which we havn't really been hurt due to the lack of guile of opposing teams, but I think one of the underlying points is that against decent opposition we will get punished.

Russia
Republic of Ireland
Armenia
Slovakia
FYR Macedonia
Andorra

That was a shockingly weak group that we didn't walk through, but again it shouldnt be expected for us too. We are, despite what anyone would like to dream, in that category of teams.

In that group Russia were the only team that actually had the power to punish our lose possession, and I expected Slovakia to a certain extent, but if that group had someone like a Greece,Sweden or Denmark, we would have been in alot more trouble (considerable mediocre European teams, but can punish slack teams)

ronsgonawin

noodler wrote: »

?
What was clear to see?

Ireland performances!! Would love to sit down and watch a game with some of you and see what you see.

Gone Drinking

Came back from Poznan at 12 last night, pissed as a fart. In work now dying today.

Wish I was back there

I booked last minute on Friday night after a few pints and rang the boss to say I wouldn't be in till Thursday, thought he'd cover for me, but instead he ratted me out and I've to go to a formal HR meeting. The dzopes.

All the lads went off to Gdansk and I went home, even after they offered me a place to stay up there for the rest of it.

Ah well, at least I got the one match in!

ooPabsoo

TheDoc wrote: »

Looking in the squad, McClean, Long, Kelly, Gibson, O Shea and Walters are really the only players that have had in anyway shape or form consistent decent season for their clubs....

And are on the bench...

Excellent post Doc

ronsgonawin wrote: »

You have named 6 players at the end who are all starters, thats half a team!! your rather long winded post just left out the best players to make you look good.

Against Croatia...

McClean - Didn't play at all

Long- Didn't start

Kelly- Didn't play

Gibson- Didn't play

Walters- Didn't start....

His "Long winded" post was absolutely spot on imo...whereas your post..couldn't actually be more wrong.

Do you even watch football?

LuckyLloyd

'Trapp WAS a great manager, but that was decades ago!'

So our rise from 50th to 18th in the rankings and qualification for our first major tournament in 10 years is down to what, osmosis? Would it have happened with any manager in charge, is that what people are suggesting?

We're about to go out against Spain tonight and you people can't give Trapp ANY credit?

Awful, awful nonesense.

ronsgonawin

ooPabsoo wrote: »

Excellent post Doc



Against Croatia...

McClean - Didn't play at all

Long- Again, Didn't play

Kelly- Didn't play

Gibson- Didn't play

Walters- Didn't play....

His "Long winded" post was absolutely spot on imo...whereas your post..couldn't actually be more wrong.

Do you even watch football?

Did you read my post???? I said we could have a team, get your facts right before you post.

noodler

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Ireland performances!! Would love to sit down and watch a game with some of you and see what you see.

??

Decent - i.e. performances which have garnered enough points for us to only be beaten twice in around 25 qualifying games and be runners-up in our groups twice.

You probably mean entertaining.

TheDoc

ronsgonawin wrote: »

You have named 6 players at the end who are all starters, thats half a team!! your rather long winded post just left out the best players to make you look good.

Someone above pointed out.

The last few guys all benched bar O'Shea. It wasn't to make my post look better, it was to highlight the players we START, never mind have in the squad. There was lads I even omitted entirely because they just weren't worth mentioning really.

And in all honesty, my posts arn't making me look good, your replies are.

I don't mean to be the dick but you need to step back and look at what your posting. Its this sort of blind fanboism that is absolutely 100% cringe, and embarassing.

I'd say your on Facebook, like so many people on my timeline

"COYBIG, beating Spain tonight?"

And thats grand if its just a bit of support, but when people start getting thick and saying how it shows no national spirit, thats cultist in the highets of forms

SantryRed

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Trapp WAS a great manager, but that was decades ago!'

So our rise from 50th to 18th in the rankings and qualification for our first major tournament in 10 years is down to what, osmosis? Would it have happened with any manager in charge, is that what people are suggesting?

We're about to go out against Spain tonight and you people can't give Trapp ANY credit?

Awful, awful nonesense.

I give him credit for getting us here yes. But come on, any manager could have gotten us from 50th to close enough to were we are. Staunton left us in a Poxy position and now all his results are gone obviously we've improved to roughly where we should be.

ronsgonawin

TheDoc wrote: »

Someone above pointed out.

The last few guys all benched bar O'Shea. It wasn't to make my post look better, it was to highlight the players we START, never mind have in the squad. There was lads I even omitted entirely because they just weren't worth mentioning really.

And in all honesty, my posts arn't making me look good, your replies are.

I don't mean to be the dick but you need to step back and look at what your posting. Its this sort of blind fanboism that is absolutely 100% cringe, and embarassing.

I'd say your on Facebook, like so many people on my timeline

"COYBIG, beating Spain tonight?"

And thats grand if its just a bit of support, but when people start getting thick and saying how it shows no national spirit, thats cultist in the highets of forms

I meant starters for their clubs. Sorry I did not make that clear but if you Looked back at what I am posting about you would know that.

ooPabsoo

You have named 6 players at the end who are all starters

ronsgonawin wrote: »

Did you read my post???? I said we could have a team, get your facts right before you post.

5 of the 6 players he named are not starters...like you said they were. Pretty sure you need to get your facts right before you start telling other people they're wrong.

gosplan

SantryRed wrote: »

I give him credit for getting us here yes. But come on, any manager could have gotten us from 50th to close enough to were we are. Staunton left us in a Poxy position and now all his results are gone obviously we've improved to roughly where we should be.

What a load of rubbish. Seriously, you just can't give him any credit, can you?

Scotland are currently 41st and Wales are currently 38th. Why don't you go tell their FA's that you know how to get them into the top 20 because they have squads that are pretty comparable to ours.

Your argument starts from the assumption that ireland will automatically beat everyone in the last qualifying group and then the manager will be judged on how he faresagainst Slovakia and Russia.

So tell me how many other managers dropped zero points to teams seeded lower than them in the qualifying for this. if it's a given, then surely loads? No?

SantryRed

Also,

If it is true we are going 4-5-1 tonight then fair play to Trappatoni for realising his stubbornness would have got us murdered tonight. I don't agree with the personnel choice but I can see the thinking behind mcgeady in centre mid field as he could provide the spark or the pass to put Robbie in. I really think Walters should be starting and Hunt/McClean on the left but how and ever.

I'm off out to begin the Pre drinks before the game. Even though Sunday was disappointing Gdansk is still hopping and there will be a fantastic atmosphere in the ground tonight. Hopefully we can get our 1 in a hundred result and sneak a 1-0 tonight. If we've a chance in making the quarters against Italy it'd be fantastic. coybig.

TheDoc

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

'Trapp WAS a great manager, but that was decades ago!'

So our rise from 50th to 18th in the rankings and qualification for our first major tournament in 10 years is down to what, osmosis? Would it have happened with any manager in charge, is that what people are suggesting?

We're about to go out against Spain tonight and you people can't give Trapp ANY credit?

Awful, awful nonesense.

Are you suggesting that Trap is the only man that could have done it?

Well drilled
Hard working
Organised

The ^ is what many people accredit Trap with. And its utter bollox. Any professional football team should be the above without a manager on a fat salary having to come in and do.

Like no one is saying he has done a dirt job, there is just disagreements on the perceived progress of the team and how we play.

I would definitely, with 100% certainty, that there are other managers that could have got us through that qualifying group. Now that's not to be intentionally vague and open ended I see how that can be read, but at the time of Traps appointment, and at the time of the start of campaign, there was managers available who could have probably done it no question.

And if I'm not mistaken, the ranks between 20-70 can have MASSIVE jumps with limited, minimal success, open to correction on that one, but I thought I read that a short string of wins/draws can propel a team up in excess of 10+ places.

I can give Trap the credit that he got the job and has delivered and no one can question that. But its come at a pretty pricey cost financially, where we have had to splash the big bucks to attract someone to come in and just get us a qualification.

We havnt spent big bucks on bringing someone in to develop a system through our national setup and leave behind a footprint for others to follow. When the Trap era is gone his philosophies won't stick at all, its a very old motto/system.

International level and relative success is all about possession football and technical ability. And even countries that didn't have it, have gone lengths to develop it.

We are still stuck 5 years behind the English model where we hold pace,power and strength over ability and technical prowess. The English FA just spent a **** ton on a new training facility to start honing players in technically.

Nearly every nation in Europe has had a visit to La Masa and taken away from ideas or thoughts on how to build a foundation to produce and nurture national team talent, not entirely relying on the players club for developement.

We still pick lads for our schoolboy teams based on the club they play for, and not their ability (witnessed first hand with lads i played with). At some point we are going to need to stop, take a little hit to success in order to lay the foundations for a brighter outlook.

TheDoc

gosplan wrote: »

Scotland are currently 41st and Wales are currently 38th. Why don't you go tell their FA's that you know how to get them into the top 20 because they have squads that are pretty comparable to ours.

Should be noted that both have deployed national plans to develop training facilities and national acadamies to coach and develop young talent. They are taking a short term hit for a long term gain.

Wales have some pretty good youth coming though their ranks, as have Scotland. SAF sent a personal invitation to the Scottish FA to have two of their youngsters come down for a visit to Carrington and they both even got a trial game between the reserves. One of them scoring twice, he is 16...

It might not be related, and you could be 100% correct that its just poor management, but considering they are VERY comparable to ours, they have put some plans in place to develop, which might return benefits.

And also

Scotlands qualifying group had Spain and the Czech Republic, whilst Wales had a pretty in form Montenegro and then England to contend with.

I know its a bit pish to ask " Would we have got through those groups?" But I think its fair to say we probably wouldn't have. But we got Estonia, we got it a bit handy lads...

noodler

TheDoc wrote: »

Scotlands qualifying group had Spain and the Czech Republic, whilst Wales had a pretty in form Montenegro and then England to contend with.

I know its a bit pish to ask " Would we have got through those groups?" But I think its fair to say we probably wouldn't have. But we got Estonia, we got it a bit handy lads...

Well for starters, if my auntie had balls etc.

You think Scotland or Wales would have beaten Armeina twice? When the Russians and Slovaks could not?

You think either of those teams would have got a draw in Russia or in Bratislava?

I think it is fair to say they would not.

Hell, last time Scotland played in Macedonia they lost.

Ridiculous post.

Francie Barrett

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

So our rise from 50th to 18th in the rankings and qualification for our first major tournament in 10 years is down to what, osmosis?

The rise looks better than what it was because Staunton was such a disaster.

noodler

Francie Barrett wrote: »

The rise looks better than what it was because Staunton was such a disaster.

What about two consecutive play-offs?

That hasn't been achieved since 2002.

Ferris_Bueller

jmayo wrote: »

I wish to feck people wouldn't drag this out everytime someone challenges Traps management decisions for Ireland.
Yes he has a good record, a great record, but that was in the distant PAST.

This BS is like saying Paul McCartney brings out brilliant albums today because he was in the Beatles and brought out decent albums in the 70s.
Or that Robert Redford is still a fantasstic leading man becuase he was one in the 70s.

Times change and the medium in which people work be it music, movies or indeed football also change.
People who were once at the top of their game, lose it.
I wish people could face that bloody fact.



Yeah I have forgotten the mauling we got by Russia and how we scraped by Armenia :rolleyes:

Can't say I agree with this at all. If Trap had taken a period away from the game, then I could maybe see what you're saying, his tactics may have become outdated and he might have fallen out of touch with the modern game (ala Dalglish). But Trap has been consistently managing for the past 40 years nearly, similar to Alex Ferguson, he has kept in with the game over them 40 years and has a great deal of experience in management, I am sure the players have learnt a lot from his time as manager.

Regarding the "mauling" against Russia, you are correct, we were played off the pitch twice, and were lucky to have escaped with a point in Moscow, but over the two games we only conceded 1 more goal than we scored. Considering the strength of their squad compared to ours, that is hardly a shocking result, say what you want about the performance, but this is a results business.

Then about the "scraped by" Armenia, jesus christ, we were the only team in the group who didn't lose points to Armenia. Slovakia got hammered twice. Before hand teams might have seen Armenia as an easy 3 points, but they proved during the qualifiers that they were a tough team to play against and the fact that we were the only team to take 6 points off them surely deserves some credit.

Honestly, what do people expect us to be capable of achieving as a football team at this point in time? Considering we have been 3rd seeds (I think) for the last 2 qualifying campaigns, yet finished second on both occasions is surely good enough. If people expect us to top our group they are crazy. Be competitive? We already are. IMO we have around the 18th-20th best squad in Europe, similar to the likes of Greece, Ukraine and Bosnia. I feel as if people forget this sometimes, and expect us to perform as if we have the 10th best team in Europe. I can't fault Trap too much for anything he has done to date, although I do think that in the 2014 qualifiers he will need to blood through a few more players to leave us in a decent position for when he leaves.

As a person who was too young/not around for the Charlton era I think it's a great shame that these days will never be back for my generation to experience. The expectations of Irish fans since then seem to have gone through the roof, and I wonder what it takes to make some of them people happy. Personally, and I'm sure thousands and thousands of other football fans in the country feel the same way, I am delighted just to have qualified for the Euros.

LuckyLloyd

Ferris_Bueller wrote: »

Personally, and I'm sure thousands and thousands of other football fans in the country feel the same way, I am delighted just to have qualified for the Euros.

Yes, a ton of Irish fans have enjoyed the last four years. Opinion may be slanted on here mind.

Pro. F

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The myth that the players disregarded Trapp's instructions in Paris repeated as fact makes me very sad.

Did I say that? No I didn't. I said the team played in a way completely opposite to Trap's normal strategy and tactics. Wriggle on and ignore the point though. It reflects well on your argument.

Will I Amnt

TheDoc wrote: »

We havnt spent big bucks on bringing someone in to develop a system through our national setup and leave behind a footprint for others to follow. When the Trap era is gone his philosophies won't stick at all, its a very old motto/system.

Excellent post overall.
The part above is exactly my problem with his position.
Martin O'Neill gets slated on this forum for his short term gain/long term pain approach,what Trappatoni is doing with this team is not a million miles away from it.

G.K.

In my newspaper today Trap said he expects Spain to start with Torres, despite the fact that all the noises from the Spanish camp indicate a 4-6-0. I guess this means the team will have been set up to face the 4-3-3 Spain have played before?

Orando Broom

SantryRed wrote: »

Also,

If it is true we are going 4-5-1 tonight then fair play to Trappatoni for realising his stubbornness would have got us murdered tonight. I don't agree with the personnel choice but I can see the thinking behind mcgeady in centre mid field as he could provide the spark or the pass to put Robbie in. I really think Walters should be starting and Hunt/McClean on the left but how and ever.

I'm off out to begin the Pre drinks before the game. Even though Sunday was disappointing Gdansk is still hopping and there will be a fantastic atmosphere in the ground tonight. Hopefully we can get our 1 in a hundred result and sneak a 1-0 tonight. If we've a chance in making the quarters against Italy it'd be fantastic. coybig.

You must be a TANK! Seven hours pre gaming. Sir, I doff my cap!

noodler

Orando Broom wrote: »

You must be a TANK! Seven hours pre gaming. Sir, I doff my cap!

Can't start until 6 myself.

Just put a few Paddy Power bets on:

1) Ireland to beat Spain....12/1 (just a fiver)

2) Ireland to score against Spain...4/1 (just a fiver as well)

TheDoc

noodler wrote: »

Well for starters, if my auntie had balls etc.

You think Scotland or Wales would have beaten Armeina twice? When the Russians and Slovaks could not?

You think either of those teams would have got a draw in Russia or in Bratislava?

I think it is fair to say they would not.

Hell, last time Scotland played in Macedonia they lost.

Ridiculous post.

Its not ridiculous at all, as I said it was a bit of a pish question, and one of stupidly open ended ones I'll admit that, but the point was that we could have easily been in our position

We got a lucky draw, and Armenia...will you go and ****e

TheDoc

noodler wrote: »

Can't start until 6 myself.

Just put a few Paddy Power bets on:

1) Ireland to beat Spain....12/1 (just a fiver)

2) Ireland to score against Spain...4/1 (just a fiver as well)

That is lol

noodler

TheDoc wrote: »

Its not ridiculous at all, as I said it was a bit of a pish question, and one of stupidly open ended ones I'll admit that, but the point was that we could have easily been in our position

We got a lucky draw, and Armenia...will you go and ****e

Wow.

The Armenians utterly trounce our main competitors for the runners-up spot in our group 3-1 and 4-0 as well as holding the Russians and your response is "go and ****e".

Your point was silly, the very idea the Welsh and Scots would have had a cakewalk in our group.

Well, moving on, no need to waste anymore time on you.

TheDoc

ugh, reply bugged, was pretty long.

In summary

P39
L28
W10

50% of their wins in our group.
Russia needed a point against them to qualify
Slovakia couldn't qualify regardless of result against them

I'm all in praise of a nation, who were recoginsed in 1992 and never qualified for a tournament, that their ball is on the rise. But it wouldnt be too far fetched to imagine that failing to get 3rd minimum in that group would be grounds for dismissal (considering Slovakias WC display)

No matter how low our team sets our expectations...

tolosenc

TheDoc wrote: »

Well drilled
Hard working
Organised

The ^ is what many people accredit Trap with. And its utter bollox. Any professional football team should be the above

Given that the Republic of Ireland aren't a professional football team, then it's good that we can be the above, no?

There's a big difference between a group of professional players and a professional team.

BraziliaNZ

Stephen Ward hattrick is 500/1 on paddypower

noodler

tolosenc wrote: »

Given that the Republic of Ireland aren't a professional football team, then it's good that we can be the above, no?

There's a big difference between a group of professional players and a professional team.

Ignoring definitions for the moment, if every team should posses those qualities how come we were one of only 14 to earn qualification?

SantryRed

Orando Broom wrote: »

SantryRed wrote: »

Also,

If it is true we are going 4-5-1 tonight then fair play to Trappatoni for realising his stubbornness would have got us murdered tonight. I don't agree with the personnel choice but I can see the thinking behind mcgeady in centre mid field as he could provide the spark or the pass to put Robbie in. I really think Walters should be starting and Hunt/McClean on the left but how and ever.

I'm off out to begin the Pre drinks before the game. Even though Sunday was disappointing Gdansk is still hopping and there will be a fantastic atmosphere in the ground tonight. Hopefully we can get our 1 in a hundred result and sneak a 1-0 tonight. If we've a chance in making the quarters against Italy it'd be fantastic. coybig.

You must be a TANK! Seven hours pre gaming. Sir, I doff my cap!

I'm in Gdansk. Some lads have been Pre drinking since before the Croatia game :pac:

Few drinks on me and my optimism is slowly coming back. 4-5-1 and we can hold them and nick it 1-0 COYBIG.

tolosenc

noodler wrote: »

Ignoring definitions for the moment, if every team should posses those qualities how come we were one of only 14 to earn qualification?

Because we had an easy draw, duh! And loads of luck!

There wasn't a hint of good planning or management in it!

tolosenc

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Stephen Ward hattrick is 500/1 on paddypower

Given that in our 17 matches in major finals to date we have only scored more than once on one occasion, I think that is extremely unlikely.

Other than both their wins against Russia in 2008, Spain haven't won a game at a major finals by more than a goal since Tunisia 6 years ago.