The Overestimation of Irish Players

Ares

It has apparent to me that people routinely overestimate, or grossly underestimate, the abilities of Irish footballers. It seems that it has only become apparent to most the limitations of these footballers after the Coratia game.

This phenomenon was most keenly seen during the Joe Hart/Shay Given debate and the Lescott/Dunne debate.

Here are some quotes from the Hart/Given thread here.

JPA wrote: »

If true they have made a mistake. Hart is still unproven and made mistakes last year.

DOC09UNAM wrote: »

Disastrous decision by Man City IMO, top quality goalkeeper.

M5 wrote: »

While i can see the logic behind the decision it baffles me. Sure long term Hart may be the better option but Given is clearly the better goalkeeper. He has been there or thereabouts for the last 10 years or more and judging by last season he still has a few miles left in the tank.

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

Seriously though if Given is ahead at all (and I personally think he is) then he has to be number 1.

It's not about the future, it's not about potential, it's about right now.
City have a revolving door squad upgrade policy, the distant future isn't a necessary consideration, only who's the best eleven for the next game. At the moment I think Given is better than Hart, Stewart Taylor and David Gonzalez (whoever he is...) so that would make him the one to pick.

Drumpot wrote: »

Delighted if its true . .

Given deserves better . . Seems that being a good player at City is not good enough .. Stephen Ireland (whom I dont like), Richard Dunne and now Given . . Brilliant .. Go on the City, keep shipping out players that actually give it their all and play well for you . .

Not just that . . Yes, Joe Harte for the future . .

One bad or dodgy couple of games and he will be shipped out of there quicker Rob Green for England and Im sure we will be reading about the next "new talent" for city very soon afterwards . . One thing that chelsea got right is that they did nothing of this kind of ridiculous moving of players . . Clubs with too much money they dont really know what to do . . Fantastic . . . .

Dont keep a goalkeeper who could easily control a team/defence that has little experience playing as a team ..

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I think City have made a mistake. I think this is going to be another Dunne/Lescott situation - better man goes and the replacement isn't as good.

FreeOSCAR wrote: »

Disappointed with this, we are all probably a bit biased because Shay's Irish.

Drumpot wrote: »

Like the children with the silver spoons, that cant decide which toys to play with, the rest of us can only laugh at how city are deciding what players to hold onto and what players to disgard . .

Sometimes you dont know what you had until its gone . .

I say Sell Given and any player that is either not english or not "sexy" . . Wow .. I can already see the headlines next May - "City to spend 200million to make sure that they guarantee a Champions league spot after this seasons dissapointment" . .

Carcharodon wrote: »

It baffles me how they can not pick Given, a player that has the experience, ability and has done nothing to justify being dropped.

They treated Dunne so badly also and that backfired so badly, he was one of the best defenders last year, plus the fact he was always immense for City.

Bellamy is getting the cold shoulder after playing very well, same with Ireland and others too.

Mister men wrote: »

What a silly move by City.

Carlos_Ray wrote: »

Given did not deserve to be dropped, and Stephen Ireland and Bellamy certainly don't deserve to be offloaded. Man Citys transfers and selection policy for the past two seasons are similar to that of a 12 year old playing football manager.

They'll fall short this season. Several players will submit transfer requests (because the club have made it quite clear that "loyalty" is not something they value.) Mancini will be sacked. Hart will become Englands number one ( and hyped as the BEST ever keeper in the history of the Universe) he'll make one high profile mistake and then be slaughtered by the media and fans. And so the circus that is Man City will continue.

The decision to make Hart number 1 was clearly the right one but one which was widely derided at the time. Given's limitations have continued to be shown up while Hart has come on to be the best goalie in the Premier League and one of the world's best.

Man City's selling of Dunne for Lescott was likewise pilloried in Ireland yet has been proven to be completely the correct decision.

Anyway the point is why are Irish players continually so overrated amongst many Irish football fans.

monkey9

Jesus Christ, there's a Republic of Ireland thread!! Has there been a mad influx of new soccer forum posters?? Threads are popping up that could be one sentence opinions in relevant threads!!!!

Owen_S

Shay Given is the best keeper in the world, that's common knowledge tbh.

eagle eye

monkey9 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, there's a Republic of Ireland thread!! Has there been a mad influx of new soccer forum posters?? Threads are popping up that could be one sentence opinions in relevant threads!!!!

Obviously there is an influx of new posters with the Euros on. Its not a big deal though because there isn't anything else going on in the soccer world right now. These threads will all be dead and gone in a couple of weeks and everybody will move on to the Olympic football tournament. I don't know why an experienced poster on here like you is getting so annoyed. For most of the year you have multiple United and Liverpool threads on the first page but you don't see others getting excited about that.

S28382

monkey9 wrote: »

Jesus Christ, there's a Republic of Ireland thread!! Has there been a mad influx of new soccer forum posters?? Threads are popping up that could be one sentence opinions in relevant threads!!!!

I think the OP has the right just as you do to start a thread if he wants, if you dont like the thread then dont take part in it.


Oh and Joe hart is a better keeper than Shay but only just

monkey9

So basically there's going to be a whole front page of different threads that will have debates on the same thing pretty much??

It makes the place unreadable and in need of a clear up and therefore, should just be nipped in the bud.

Will i just go ahead and create a thread called The Underestimation of Irish Players??

Will I Amnt

Joe Hart is a very good keeper,prone to a fumble or two but still very good.
Shay Given is a very good keeper,doesn't command his box as well as he should but still very good.

Obviously you go for the younger keeper if it has to be one or the other but there's not a massive gulf in ability between them.
Same goes for Lescott and Dunne.

S28382

monkey9 wrote: »

So basically there's going to be a whole front page of different threads that will have debates on the same thing pretty much??

It makes the place unreadable and in need of a clear up and therefore, should just be nipped in the bud.

Will i just go ahead and create a thread called The Underestimation of Irish Players??

Become and Mod and give it a go, and sure if you want to start a thread by all means do, if you dont like the title of a thread then dont click on the link to open it to see what it says its not that hard to resist.

RoryMac

I think the OP is a little unfair, the decision to pick Hart over Given was questioned widely in England too with with mixed opinions being given by journo's, ex players etc.

Yes it turned out to be a correct decision but at the time there were no guarantees that Hart could handle the pressures of being the no. 1 keeper at a top side.

eagle eye

monkey9 wrote: »

So basically there's going to be a whole front page of different threads that will have debates on the same thing pretty much??

It makes the place unreadable and in need of a clear up and therefore, should just be nipped in the bud.

Will i just go ahead and create a thread called The Underestimation of Irish Players??

Yeah a bit like the 'are liverpool and their current manager done' threads when it could all be in the Liverpool superthread I suppose. I don't hear you complaining about that though. As a matter of fact I remember some Liverpool fans wanting a separte thread for that.

noodler

Mods should lock this.

Forum is becoming a joke in the last few weeks with the influx.

Samich

cambo2008 wrote: »

Joe Hart is a very good keeper,prone to a fumble or two but still very good.
Shay Given is a very good keeper,doesn't command his box as well as he should but still very good.

Obviously you go for the younger keeper if it has to be one or the other but there's not a massive gulf in ability between them.
Same goes for Lescott and Dunne.

I think there's a massive gulf between the 2 sets of players ye've mentioned.

Helix

should be a euro 2012 sub forum for the duration of the tournament tbh

monkey9

S28382 wrote: »

Become and Mod and give it a go, and sure if you want to start a thread by all means do, if you dont like the title of a thread then dont click on the link to open it to see what it says its not that hard to resist.

Don't click on the thread?? It's part of a cluster**** of threads!! At least look at what's there first so that you can add to it before starting more threads!!

plasmaguy

In fairness, while Given has been sound at international level, at club level he's let in a fair few howlers. He's a shot stopper but throw in a cross and he struggles. I think the 4-3 loss to man utd at old trafford a few years ago raised doubts for many people.

Hart is an outstanding keeper tbh.

The question I have is, based on the other nights performance (as opposed to when they were at their prime) how many of the Irish team would get into the Croatia team.

Dunne, O'Shea, Duff and maybe Given.

I think it was one of those freak games where every one of our players underperformed.

monkey9

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah a bit like the 'are liverpool and their current manager done' threads when it could all be in the Liverpool superthread I suppose. I don't hear you complaining about that though. As a matter of fact I remember some Liverpool fans wanting a separte thread for that.

Do you not, no??

monkey9

:rolleyes:

eagle eye wrote: »

Yeah a bit like the 'are liverpool and their current manager done' threads when it could all be in the Liverpool superthread I suppose. I don't hear you complaining about that though. As a matter of fact I remember some Liverpool fans wanting a separte thread for that.

Do you not, no?? :rolleyes:

S28382

monkey9 wrote: »

Don't click on the thread?? It's part of a cluster**** of threads!! At least look at what's there first so that you can add to it before starting more threads!!

I didnt start the thread so i dont really care i was just saying if you dont like it then dont take part in it, yeah i know it is annoying when there is a load of threads popping up all the time but in fairness thats what boards is here for. And the OP is clearly only new to boards so im sure he/she doesnt really know the ins and outs of it yet so having an aggressive post aimed at his/her thread is not nice, anyho lets not go back and forth on this because its taking away from the OPs original post.

CSF

S28382 wrote: »

I think the OP has the right just as you do to start a thread if he wants, if you dont like the thread then dont take part in it.

Hi Mam, whats for dinner tomorrow?

S28382

CSF wrote: »

Hi Mam, whats for dinner tomorrow?

How did you know your mother is here with me?

CSF

S28382 wrote: »

How did you know your mother is here with me?

G.K.

Ok, this thread isn't going anywhere.