Time to change forum poll

RoryW

Following recent posts, do you think it is time for the forum to refresh itself ?
I now lurk and seldom post as the fun and banter seems to have dissipated over the last few years. As mentioned elsewhere the sub forum have created a labyrinth where things get lost.

Workshop
Photo challenge
Events and projects
Pix.ie
Stickies in main forum

Time for a makeover and refresh I think. Whilst mods may express the view that things will not change, surely it is the members who should decide as mods moderate they don't and shouldn't dictate ! ( no offence to mods :-) )

Thoughts anyone...

ronanc15

Voted: Yes - posted my thoughts in Paddy's thread

humberklog

RoryW wrote: »

Thoughts anyone...

Release TheCageyOne!

jpb1974

Release TheCageyOne!

Forum activity will surely rocket.

Only Perseus will be able to save us

AnCatDubh

RoryW wrote: »

Whilst mods may express the view that things will not change, surely it is the members who should decide as mods moderate they don't and shouldn't dictate ! ( no offence to mods :-) )

Just a point - in case it gets lost in all the excitement - the move to the current layout, in particular the workshop which appears to be causing some grief for people at this stage, is directly as a result of the forum members feedback.

This involved an amount of change in the vbulletin setup which the Mods championed with the admins and community managers (who were very ameniable in any case) but there was no resistance from the Mods in terms of giving effect to the community's desired layout. IIRC, the complaint at the time was "there's too much gear talk in the main forum, it bores the pants off of me, and can you not get rid of it for us".

So if the community would rather revert things back to the way they were then i've no reason to suspect that there'd be any particular objection from the mods.

I wasn't particularly involved with the previous reorganisation - I (mostly) don't moderate the forum and haven't done so for a long time at this stage. Personally, I preferred the layout the way it was so that's how much a (category) moderators influence had on that particular decision

The other item to mention is that as I understand it, the pix.ie sub forum is a given at community manager/admins level. Marcus is an official rep and with that status has a particular setup agreed with boards inc - it being deemed appropriate and related to the photography forum as I understand it.

Some stickies will be needed (charter is a given for instance) but others can be moved if people have credible alternatives. The Photo Services Wanted/Offered serves an incredible purpose of stopping people bitching at each other if individual threads were allowed to be started. Again, credible alternatives which don't involve blood and guts are open for discussion.

My personal vote as a user - no surprise based on my earlier comment here, is I preferred it the way it was :pac:

Fionn

finally!!!

i just haven't bothered any more, what a shame!

it's not what it used to be eh? yeah!

i'd like the old one back!!

peace



I once wanted to update one of the stickies i contributed to - no one cared or even responded!

chisel

Yes too!!

Mountainsandh

Yes ! Bring back the mess ! (seriously )

CabanSail

I think I speak for the Mod Team when I say that we act on behalf of the community. Feedback is always welcome. Changes have been made in the past and maybe it's time to revisit things again. We must remember that the Category & Site policies must be taken into consideration too. If a good case is put, then site rules can be bent, An example is that the Site has a No Advertising rule but we were given dispensation for the Services Thread if it were properly managed.

The last major change happened when there was discontent with the old format. The major gripe we had then was that the Gear Talk was killing off the Photography. The sub forums were being under utilised. Photo Challenge stayed untouched. The Trips & Expeditions also took on Projects, so the Yearbook had a home. The big one was the Digital Darkroom became The Workshop for all the Gear threads, leaving the main forum for Photography. I do spend a lot of time moving threads still as it seems that many people still cannot differentiate between Gear & Photography.

I must admit that I see a "Photography" forum being in the correct place in an "Arts" category, however the correct place for a "Camera" forum would be in "Technology"

Maybe one of the issues is that a lot of the people calling for change last time stopped posting images due to changes in the T&C's adopted by this site. Then a lot of people only ever put images into the Random thread and we don't get to discuss them.


Please consider what changes you would like made and how these will impact the forum. Just a switch back to the "Old Way" will be a change but it comes with all the "Old Problems" too.

Personally I kind of like the present structure but would like to see more discussion on the photo's posted in the main forum. Projects and meet ups seem to be the things which give this place a boost.

jonniebgood1

RoryW wrote: »

Time for a makeover and refresh I think. Whilst mods may express the view that things will not change, surely it is the members who should decide as mods moderate they don't and shouldn't dictate ! ( no offence to mods :-) )

Thoughts anyone...

I don't fully agree with this. It is correct that members give their opinions but it is then up to the photography mods to "dictate" the outcome. What you propose is fine in theory but the reality is that the many decent members of the forum will have many decent ideas of how the forum should change. So IMO it is a requirement that the mods dictate the changes (based on regular users opinions) particularly as it is they who will be moderating after the changes are made. This is also a reflection on the time they spend on the forum keeping the show on the road. My understanding is that the current layout of the forum was as the result of problems with the previous layout, therefore the worry would be that any changes are just for changes sake. It is true of all aspects of life that we look back wistfully, remembering positives rather than negatives (excuse pun) and this happens on boards also.

My opinion is that the more sub-forums there are the more dissapated the main forum will become. This reduces traffic and threads can then become stagnant and uninteresting.

OldGoat

AnCatDubh wrote: »

My personal vote as a user - no surprise based on my earlier comment here, is I preferred it the way it was :pac:

CabanSail wrote: »

Personally I kind of like the present structure

Fight, fight, fight...

Seems to me that the most common reasons that the sub-forums are failing is because of user apathy (based a speedread of the other thread). People just don't click into the subs. Thats hardly a reason for making sweeping changes and to re-introduce the problems that were here before the subs were created TBH.
I like the current structure. The missing banter and jovility of yesteryear is simply down to us as users rather then the infrastructure of the forums.

sNarah

Like AnCatDubh and Cabansail stated before, the lay-out of the forum was changed to what it is now back in JAN 2011 based on our community feedback.

If you think things's could be better or should be changed, write them down here or PM one of us if it's something you don't want to change. As with the last time, we take all feedback into consideration and we will explain why some things aren't possible. Here's how did it last year.

So, please jab down whatever trough and we'll have a look trough it all.

It's the mods that have this country the way it is!!! :mad::mad::mad:



Seriously though, i posted my thoughts more than once recently, so I'll keep quiet, but yeah, I do think it's time that the forum got a little revamp.

CabanSail

Deleted User wrote: »

It's the mods that have this country the way it is!!! :mad::mad::mad:

Oi! I'm not even in the same hemisphere. Economy here is OK* .... Maybe I'm in a parallel reality?


*Though if you listen to the whingers you'd swear we were worse off than Ireland is now. Things have gone up slightly, poor little lambs.




On another note, I am not convinced that the layout is the problem. My feeling is that we need a project that gets the regulars working towards something.

pearljamfan

i voted yes...

my suggestion would be to have more categories for people to post photos to get good c+c etc, i really like the layout and diffferent choices on the photography ireland forum, i understand its a dedicated forum to photography, where here were in arts, which is fine, but it think it should be organised into groups like,
'business, websites, legal'
'comps, photoshop, challenges'
b+w
weddings
etc etc etc , sorry for rambling its late and im terrible at explaining things!

magicbastarder

bring back fajitas. by force, if necessary.

CabanSail

CabanSail wrote: »

My feeling is that we need a project that gets the regulars working towards something.

Ah, I don't know. I think that kind of thing can be as bad as it is good. Having a project creates a series of people who will always get involved with it (there will of course be those who don't participate) which can, down the road, create a kind of 'in' club, which new members may feel excluded from or not like the presence of.

Besides, there's the Yearbook, the 24/7 book, that thing ye all do when you get together to flog your photos in Dublin, an annual trip to a castle somewhere, too, I think? (along with multiple other photowalks and challenges throughout the year).


You could be kept very busy in this forum if you were to get involved in everything that's going on, it'd seem.

melekalikimaka

CabanSail wrote: »

Maybe one of the issues is that a lot of the people calling for change last time stopped posting images due to changes in the T&C's adopted by this site. Then a lot of people only ever put images into the Random thread and we don't get to discuss them.

I think the issue with this is the change in people who frequent the forum, been thinking about this a bit last few days, and i think the forum has moved from dedicated photographers, to a different type, not in a negative way, i think its mirroring the real world, back in the day, we had a fair dash of film heads, alot of professionals and dedicated weekend photographers, many with interesting projects and theory based topics to discuss.

With Instagram and access to cheap dslrs, theres a new breed of hobbiests, maybe even technophobes, not to interested in the more finer aspects and the meanings of images, more about the quick route to excellent photography. Its now overshadowing the old forums ways, and tbh, is there any point in fighting with progress? positive or negative

Perhaps a mashing of all subs into the main again, and a wee sub forum aside from the mayhem for the old ways, dare i say it worse case, a private forum, tho it may dilute the forum to meaningless theads, but from the vibe in the other thread, seems like any who have been here a while are stepping back anyway?

Comes accross a bit pretentious I know, but just my 2c

melekalikimaka

magicbastarder wrote: »

bring back fajitas. by force, if necessary.

Rymus

and

Scrimp!!!

Tallon

The challengers were a Massive part of this forum, and so much fun... Since they were moved to the sub forum, they died, and people usually post multiple photos in a row that are not even related to the theme, just to be in with a chance.

Mountainsandh

I have a lot of respect for the big names on here, but melekalikimaka, I find the idea of a private forum for all the "good ones" shocking, I have to say. How are others (like me) supposed to learn* anything at all if all the "good ones" are off to their own private photoland ? :eek::(

And I find it a bit steep that people should be giving out about others not being there all the time. We all have busy lives, and I'm sure good or bad, dedicated or not, if you're not a professional photographer, you are likely to have stretches when few pics will be taken, and few chances will be had to check the forum and participate.
When I lurk and I see a person posting who hasn't posted in a while, I'm just happy to see their stuff again, I don't see what the problem is.

*not that it's the job of anyone to teach anyone anything, but that people like me learn a lot from seeing and reading and possibly interacting with "the good ones" tribe.

melekalikimaka

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I have a lot of respect for the big names on here, but melekalikimaka, I find the idea of a private forum for all the "good ones" shocking, I have to say. How are others (like me) supposed to learn anything at all if all the "good ones" are off to their own private photoland ? :eek::(

yeah hindsight its a silly idea, i just am at a loss as to what went down with the forum, mods all do a great job, the format shouldnt have effected things, its just saddening that the same issues are coming up over and over, and its pushing the people away that made this so good to post in. Its probably just the way photography is being precieved these days as is was 5-6 years ago, its become more accessable and bringing in new types of people that have different needs from the forum, which of course should be catered for.

jpb1974

People move on for many other issues that don't necessarily involve disagreements and failing outs.

You get fed up. Forums are just like photography magazines in many ways.

There's a gazillion different places to post these days.

You circumstances change, be it work or personal and you don't have as much time for photography/forums.

PhotographyIreland was exactly the same... booming for a few years, now dead as a doornail. All the same sort of stuff - craic, well established members, friends, enemies, nuisances, cliques, arguements, "there's not enough critque", "the forum is has gone to pot", naval gazing etc.

Mountainsandh

I don't think it's just photography Meleminipalabiba (:o:D), I think it's just representative of a generation of people who don't understand what "learning" is.
They think they can do it already, just like all teenage kids think they can sing already, and dance already, and they can be famous in the morning.

You can probably guess my job by joining the numbers... I have a lot more time of a sudden, I talk of learning and kids, with a hint of bitterness...
:P;)
don't tell anyone...

Tallon

The point Is, it doesn't have to be like that

melekalikimaka

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I don't think it's just photography Meleminipalabiba (:o:D), I think it's just representative of a generation of people who don't understand what "learning" is.
They think they can do it already, just like all teenage kids think they can sing already, and dance already, and they can be famous in the morning.

You can probably guess my job by joining the numbers... I have a lot more time of a sudden, I talk of learning and kids, with a hint of bitterness...
:P;)
don't tell anyone...

i like to think i am still in the young generation...

<i think i need a moment>

<sniffle>

artyeva

i have nothing to add really, only that i've been looking at mele

---

's name on this forum for years now but always just read it as 'mele' and reading this thread today is the first time i've *really* looked at it. and i've just listened to a version of that song by 'walk off the earth'. and i get it now. duh!










that's all.



carry on.

gsxr1

Why all the sub forums?

Its a bit of a maze at the moments. IMO.

Mountainsandh

melekalikimaka wrote: »

i like to think i am still in the young generation...

<i think i need a moment>

<sniffle>

... tentatively pats shoulder...

dakar

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Rymus

Nooooooooooo!

melekalikimaka

dakar wrote: »

Nooooooooooo!

he was like a crazed dicator who at a whim would ban people and misbehave worse than any poster, it was hilarious.

melekalikimaka

Mountainsandh wrote: »

... tentatively pats shoulder...

thats the sweetest thing anyone has ever made me

Reoil

melekalikimaka wrote: »

Rymus

and

Scrimp!!!

All of the above!!

rymus

melekalikimaka wrote: »

dakar wrote: »

Nooooooooooo!

he was like a crazed dicator who at a whim would ban people and misbehave worse than any poster, it was hilarious.

Damn right! ****ing users, I hate you all so much.

melekalikimaka

rymus wrote: »

Damn right! ****ing users, I hate you all so much.

<hides>

magicbastarder

jpb1974 wrote: »

naval gazing etc.

jpb1974

Can anyone tell me if permission is require to use the image above? :eek:

Ricky91t

Not gonna lie, I rarely even both going into the subforums, It's too much hassle. A few years ago I used to see all the mentions of the upcoming events/meets and want to go to them. I always said to my self If I ever moved to Dublin I would.

But now they're hidden away and I know if something is posted I may see it and reply but it'll still slip my mind. I miss the mess too!

pullandbang

I'm in the "Don't Care" camp but if the powers that be do decide to make a few changes, there is one little rule I'd like to see in put in place and it's regarding posting images for C&C.

Post a maximum of two images at a time - preferably only one when looking for C&C. It's ridiculous someone posting 12 or more random images in one thread and expecting others to got through them all to critique them. If you have a set of images that are to be critiqued as a set, then certainly post them as a set, but otherwise post them one at a time - two at a push.

EyeBlinks

Gone to the dogs since I knew it at it's best and as someone said I remember it fondly as I made some true friends on here. To a man/woman we've all moved on, disillusioned and now only occassional browsers.

Contributed at length to the last attempt (and previous ones) at updating this forum, and then left (as one Mod stated I should do) as it was obvious change was needed and wasn't going to happen. Twitter initially and then elsewhere too where I get mainly what I'm after, so I'm a happy camper now.

The Mods are not proactive and forward thinking enough (If it all!) and this attempt Rory will most likely end in nothing except cosmetic changes once again, if even that.

As Tallon has said it doesn't have to be.

Great community here, sadly with no leadership or progression.

Nuff said!

RoryW

So the poll has closed with 75% voting for change.

jonniebgood1

RoryW wrote: »

So the poll has closed with 75% voting for change.

'Democracy is when the indigent, and not the men of property, are the rulers.'

ARISTOTLE

Tallon

Look at all these wonderful events that are being missed and neglected because they are being moved to one big mega thread...

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055321599&page=9

What's the point in having the damn sub forum for events, if you're just going to amalgamate all the events into one unreadable thread?

Who's moving them?

OldGoat

That mega-thread was started in 2008. The new forum was started in 2011 and the thread was carried over into the new forum but never closed.
I personally like the megathread as I'm subscribed to it and get notified of new events posted there.
I take the time to read the sub forums on a regular basis so the current structure works well for me.

Edit: My recent posts were posted in the thread intentionally. No-one moved them there but me.

EyeBlinks

OldGoat wrote: »

That mega-thread was started in 2008. The new forum was started in 2011 and the thread was carried over into the new forum but never closed.
I personally like the megathread as I'm subscribed to it and get notified of new events posted there.
I take the time to read the sub forums on a regular basis so the current structure works well for me.

Edit: My recent posts were posted in the thread intentionally. No-one moved them there but me.

Also Sprach 5.26%

ronanc15

Any further thoughts on this?

Tallon

It seems a thread has been started here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056691391

No mention of it though...

EyeBlinks

Ah, that's the way to do it. Hide it from the photography forum and you'll attract a great response. If I recall correctly, it was same approach last time around. Plus ça change:rolleyes:

dirtyghettokid

the thread is stickied at the top of the forum though

CabanSail

EyeBlinks wrote: »

Ah, that's the way to do it. Hide it from the photography forum and you'll attract a great response. If I recall correctly, it was same approach last time around. Plus ça change:rolleyes:

Yes .... that is right .... Hidden at the TOP of the forum and STICKIED it so that nobody will see it ...... all part of a devious plot. :eek:


Yes it was the same approach last time. Ask for for the opinions of those that use the place and then collate the positive responses received. They were then implemented. We also took into account the whiny whingers who only posted negative replies and tried to please them too. :rolleyes:

The whole forum was altered to best fit the feedback given, as we are so opposed to change. Of course the best thing to do is not to get involved, and only lob grenades of negativity from the sidelines. "Plus ça change" is only to be expected.

Tallon

CabanSail wrote: »

Yes .... that is right .... Hidden at the TOP of the forum and STICKIED it so that nobody will see it ...... all part of a devious plot. :eek:


Yes it was the same approach last time. Ask for for the opinions of those that use the place and then collate the positive responses received. They were then implemented. We also took into account the whiny whingers who only posted negative replies and tried to please them too. :rolleyes:

The whole forum was altered to best fit the feedback given, as we are so opposed to change. Of course the best thing to do is not to get involved, and only lob grenades of negativity from the sidelines. "Plus ça change" is only to be expected.

The highlighted sentence really irks me CabanSail!

Are you saying that anyone who has anything negative to say about the forum is a 'whiny whinger'?