Piseogs

cormacocomhrai

Fuinseog wrote: »

The coiste bodhar is not quite the banshee. I heard about it from a relative who worked in a nursing home and watched a lot of people die.They come out with some strange things before they pass on and one is that they can see a coach coming to pick them up.

There is a thread on the banshee in the mythology section.

You can trick the cóiste bodhar by turning your coat inside out. It won't recognise you and will pass you. Might prove useful to someone.

My grandmother was reputed to have heard the banshee. Wasn't superstitious by the standards of the time. She was young and heard crying. Her brother, a seminarian or a priest, also heard it, called her indoors, blessed himself and siad nothing about it. A lad who was staying with them drowned later than evening.
Anybody who's been out late and night and heard a vixen in heat will know what the banshee probably was.

Fuinseog

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

You can trick the cóiste bodhar by turning your coat inside out. It won't recognise you and will pass you. Might prove useful to someone.

My grandmother was reputed to have heard the banshee. Wasn't superstitious by the standards of the time. She was young and heard crying. Her brother, a seminarian or a priest, also heard it, called her indoors, blessed himself and siad nothing about it. A lad who was staying with them drowned later than evening.
Anybody who's been out late and night and heard a vixen in heat will know what the banshee probably was.

You seem to be taking the piss, which is exactly why folks are reluctant to talk about folk beliefs. for you it might seem like Darby O Gill. for some folks these things are taken seriously and not to be mocked.

jonniebgood1

Fuinseog wrote: »

You seem to be taking the piss, which is exactly why folks are reluctant to talk about folk beliefs. for you it might seem like Darby O Gill. for some folks these things are taken seriously and not to be mocked.

Its hardly taking the piss to suggest that the noise people take to be a banshee may be a fox or some other type of nocturnal animal. I had heard the fox suggested by people many times before as the the real source for the banshee squeal. I know of several older people who swear by the banshee and dread hearing the squeal.

cormacocomhrai

Fuinseog wrote: »

You seem to be taking the piss, which is exactly why folks are reluctant to talk about folk beliefs. for you it might seem like Darby O Gill. for some folks these things are taken seriously and not to be mocked.

It reflects well on you that you don't like to see people mocked. That's an admirable characteristic. But to be fair I'm one of the people who contributed the most to this thread.

Not taking the piss at all with the comment about the fox. If you'd ever heard the howling of a vixen in heat you'd know exactly what I'm talking about. There are different sounds but one of them sounds like a child crying except you know that it's not human. Hear that on a road at 2am and you'd well believe in the Banshee. Difference was I knew what I was hearing. As for the general issue of knowing when someone close to you was going to die, well that's a different issues. I do believe in some kind of instict, something that science hasn't explained yet, but will. Culturally, in Ireland, I could see that in certain cases it might take the form of the Banshee. I'd have no issue with that.

I've known people, perfectly intelligent people, that would freeze up if some passed a positive compliment without saying "Bail ó Dhia air", that saw a horse being cured of the evil eye, who genuinely believed their father saw someone turn into a hare, who felt that a poltergeist pushed them, who collapsed because of the hungry grass.
A dream possibly saved my father's life once.

For me superstitions have three different types 1. a garbled version of a religious belief. 2.When they saw something occurring but misinterpreted the reasons for it, like putting two and two together and getting 6 3.Ones that, of themselves, don't make any sense, some are the product of recent creation. But for me the reasons why they exist are the most important thing about supersitions. They existed for people who had little or no control over their lives. Like a modern surgeon who needs to feel that he did everything he could to protect a patient it was and is the same for a mother who'll bury half of her children before adulthood. People died so suddenly long ago that there's no doubt that for many people superstitions gave a pyschological release from any feelings of guilt that they might have had. Once you obeyed all the rules you were able to say "it wasn't my fault". Nothing stupid about that at all, it's part of the grief process etc. The human condition will be exactly the same in a thousand years. It's easy to be flippant about superstitions but take any of us out of the comfort zone and we'd all be superstitious. So while individual superstitions are often ridiculous the reasons for their existence aren't.

Do I believe in fairies? No, but I wouldn't build my house on a fairy path. For the reason that in the event of a disaster befalling the family who knows how that would play on a grief-stricken mind.

Would I get nervous if a robin flew into my house? you bet

I dreamed once that I died in April 2034. Do I believe it now? Of course I don't. Don't be ridiculous. Will I be nervous for that month? Of course I will.

cormacocomhrai

Incidentally these folk believes and superstitions are an integral part of our culture and should be remembered regardless of what people think of them. It irritates me to see the native beliefs and customs of the fairies being replaced by some Anglo-American TV version of Tinkerbell.

Rasheed

I love this kind of thing, especially stories about Biddie Earley etc.

Was told as a child never to pick up food that fell to the floor, it was a fairy knocking it too the ground, possibly to also stop picking up infection!

Also when building a house, to put our stones at the four corners of where the house will stand. If the stones have been disturbed in anyway, change plan as you are on a fairy path!

Also believe in widows curses especially. Local legend has it that a widows curse was put on a road in the neighbouring parish that there would be no decendents to carry on family names on the road after the present generation died, if you get me. Same curse came through, there is not one living direct decendent on the road since that generation.

I would never ever mess with a fairy fort or fairy tree. Don't find it hocus pocus, I'm perfectly rational but some thing should be left alone.

cormacocomhrai

Rasheed wrote: »

I love this kind of thing, especially stories about Biddie Earley etc.

It's part of the famiily lore that Biddy cured a cow belonging to one of my ancestors.

byhookorbycrook

My mother swears that the Lord Waterfords were cursed and that 7 generations would not die in their own beds.

She was raised by the sea and always says that people shuold not swim in the sea before Whit weekend, as the sea will claim a victim per parish. (Down to cold water, more than anything else.)

Rasheed

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

It's part of the famiily lore that Biddy cured a cow belonging to one of my ancestors.

Oh deadly! Whatever else about her and her magic bottle, she was a mighty woman!

Rasheed

Isn't it said that fairies are responsible for Sean Quinn losing the fortune? I'd post the link but I don't know how to do it, I'm not great on computers! Apparently when he was building a new hotel he messed up a tomb.


Tuesday November 22 2011
HE was once Ireland's richest man, with a fortune of €4.7bn, before his huge gamble on Anglo Irish Bank shares toppled him into bankruptcy.

But for some in his heartland on the Cavan/Fermanagh border, the downfall of Sean Quinn has more to do with the wrath of the fairies than risky business moves.

According to these locals, it was the decision to move a megalithic burial tomb 20 years ago which led to the fall of his cement, hotels, and insurance empire.

The Aughrim Wedge Tomb stood for 4,000 years in the townland after which it is named, two miles outside Ballyconnell, Co Cavan.

But when it got in the way of the expansion of a massive quarry for Quinn Concrete in 1992, permission was granted by the Office of Public Works to move it.

Following a full excavation of the site, it was moved -- stone by stone -- and relocated in the grounds of Mr Quinn's Slieve Russell Hotel on the other side of the village.

Mr Quinn has since lost the cement works, the hotel, a raft of other businesses and his multi-billion euro fortune. According to bankruptcy documents, he now claims to have just €11,000 in the bank.

Some locals have linked the movement of the tomb to Mr Quinn's financial woes.

"I'm a big supporter of Sean Quinn because of what he has done for this area but that tomb should never have been moved," said publican Toirbhealach Lyons, the owner of Molly Maguire's pub in Ballyconnell.

"There would be a lot of people who would think you could never have any luck after moving an ancient tombstone."

Such superstitions are common and widely believed according to University of Ulster folklore expert Seamus MacFlionn.

"Cavan is full of ancient sites like these and therefore many people there would be more superstitious about moving any ancient rath, tomb or fairy tree," he said.

"People do genuinely believe that to do so brings bad luck. It's part of our ancient Irish history," he added.

However, not everyone in the area subscribes to the view that the movement of the tomb brought Mr Quinn his bad luck. One sceptic is Ballyconnell butcher Gerard Crowe, "It's a load of auld rubbish. . . Simple as that," he said.

- Greg Harkin

Irish Independent

cormacocomhrai

Rasheed wrote: »

Oh deadly! Whatever else about her and her magic bottle, she was a mighty woman!

She was a mighty woman for the men according to the folklore. There was a story that I heard about both Biddy and a witch in Connemara about a priest questioning their power. "Do you see that crow Father?" and the crow drops dead.
Biddy was supposed to have been insulted once by a priest whose horse then refused to move for him until he dismounted and went back and apologised to Biddy.

cormacocomhrai

The Hellfire club in the Dublin mountains was supposed to have been built on an ancient burial site. Your Quinn story put it into my head.

Three more family ones. My grandfather's family clearly saw a house on fire from the window of their own house. They knew well that there was no house there. He was also a guard later. While on duty in Cavan he heard collapsing stones, said to be a rememberence of evictions.

The priest I mentioned in the story of the banshee seems to have attracted something other wordly. He saw a friar that was supposed to have been killed in Cromwellian times. Another time he was home from Maynooth and passed a neighbour on a road. He complained about the neighbour's unfriendliness because of not having saluted him. The neighbour had been dead for months.

Rasheed

Wasn't 3 husbands she out lived? A feat in itself!
Travellers curses held plenty of weight around here too.
My granny would never bad mouth a traveller and always helped them if they called looking for donations of clothes or food.

Any other superstitions that people know?

Rasheed

I happen to hold faith in the animal ones also such as killing a Robin will bring bad luck for life, if the first born lamb is a black lamb, someone in the house will die before the year is out.
Animals are so perceptive they are bound to sense more then we can.

cormacocomhrai

The last of the husbands was only about half her age. I've about a million of the pisreogs but I think that I'm starting to take over the thread so I'll leave it for tonight.

All these things were to protect children from being abducted by fairies
keep iron in a baby's cot, dress boys up like girls (they wanted boys), keep dirty water in the house or put a drop of urine on the child's forehead (fairies were extremely clean).

Blackspot on the tongue-telling lies
itchy knuckles or nose-you'll be fighting
itchy palms-you'll receive money.

McDonaghs in Connemara aren't supposed to wear the colour green.

don't put new shoes up on a table.

If a horse freezes look between his ears and you'll see a ghost. Quite a common idea that, even today, that animals are more sensitive to ghosts than humans.

A child born with the caipín an tsonais (the call in Hiberno-English) will be lucky and happy.

Just for starters

Maudi

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

Lets cut to the chase here...who has heard the Banshee? :eek:

twice.

Rasheed

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

The last of the husbands was only about half her age. I've about a million of the pisreogs but I think that I'm starting to take over the thread so I'll leave it for tonight.

All these things were to protect children from being abducted by fairies
keep iron in a baby's cot, dress boys up like girls (they wanted boys), keep dirty water in the house or put a drop of urine on the child's forehead (fairies were extremely clean).

Blackspot on the tongue-telling lies
itchy knuckles or nose-you'll be fighting
itchy palms-you'll receive money.

McDonaghs in Connemara aren't supposed to wear the colour green.

don't put new shoes up on a table.

If a horse freezes look between his ears and you'll see a ghost. Quite a common idea that, even today, that animals are more sensitive to ghosts than humans.

A child born with the caipín an tsonais (the call in Hiberno-English) will be lucky and happy.

Just for starters

Is that the kind of a 'hood' that some babies are born with? Thanks for answering me, it's very interesting so I for one not mind if you take over the thread a bit!

cormacocomhrai

Maudi wrote: »

twice.

Under what circumstances if you don't mind me asking?

Rasheed

Maudi wrote: »

twice.

Really? Is it in your family, the banshee I mean? Did somebody die?

Maudi

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

The last of the husbands was only about half her age. I've about a million of the pisreogs but I think that I'm starting to take over the thread so I'll leave it for tonight.

All these things were to protect children from being abducted by fairies
keep iron in a baby's cot, dress boys up like girls (they wanted boys), keep dirty water in the house or put a drop of urine on the child's forehead (fairies were extremely clean).

Blackspot on the tongue-telling lies
itchy knuckles or nose-you'll be fighting
itchy palms-you'll receive money.

McDonaghs in Connemara aren't supposed to wear the colour green.

don't put new shoes up on a table.

If a horse freezes look between his ears and you'll see a ghost. Quite a common idea that, even today, that animals are more sensitive to ghosts than humans.

A child born with the caipín an tsonais (the call in Hiberno-English) will be lucky and happy.

Just for starters

its very rare the 'caul' and apparently very rare to be born with one..they were valued by sailors for some reason...both my parents were born with a caul..my mother still has hers preserved on paper..

Maudi

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

The Hellfire club in the Dublin mountains was supposed to have been built on an ancient burial site. Your Quinn story put it into my head.

Three more family ones. My grandfather's family clearly saw a house on fire from the window of their own house. They knew well that there was no house there. He was also a guard later. While on duty in Cavan he heard collapsing stones, said to be a rememberence of evictions.

The priest I mentioned in the story of the banshee seems to have attracted something other wordly. He saw a friar that was supposed to have been killed in Cromwellian times. Another time he was home from Maynooth and passed a neighbour on a road. He complained about the neighbour's unfriendliness because of not having saluted him. The neighbour had been dead for months.

if you google map the hellfire you can clearly see where the stone for the building came from...look directly behind it ..

cormacocomhrai

QUOTE=Rasheed;79299409]Is that the kind of a 'hood' that some babies are born with? Thanks for answering me, it's very interesting so I for one not mind if you take over the thread a bit![/QUOTE]

No bother. It's the placenta and it comes out on the baby's head at birth. I'm not fully sure of the details after that. Maudi would know more than me. Maudi also right on the spelling than me. I've never seen it written down.

As for the superstition itself. There may be some basis for it. One theory is that if you eat it it's supposed to help fight post natal depression. Healthy mother=happy/ lucky baby. Animals certainly eat it.

Rasheed

Maudi, will you tell us about the banshee, I'm dying to know! Only if ya want to tell it, il understand if you don't!

dubhthach

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

McDonaghs in Connemara aren't supposed to wear the colour green.

don't put new shoes up on a table.

Reminds me of the concept of a Geis as mentioned in early Irish literature. For example two of Cú Chulainn's geiseanna were:

• Don't eat dog meat.
• Eat any food offerred by a woman

His doom was thus guaranteed when an old woman offered him a meal of dog meat.

cormacocomhrai

Another animal related pisreog if a hare runs across a pregnant woman's path her skirt should be torn otherwise the child will have a hare's lip. (Bearna mhíl i nGaeilge). In Irish giorria (gearr-fhia-short deer) is a hare and míol meaning creature was also used. These were used as a way of avoiding the actual word they had. Objects of fear tended not to be named so a stoat (easóg) became an bheainín uasal (the noble little woman). The place where St. Mary's school is in Galway city was formerly known as Cnocán na Míol (The hillock of the creatures meaning hares).

Rasheed

Quick question for ye, had a disagreement about this the other day. Are ring forts and fairy forts the same thing???

cormacocomhrai

They wouldn't necessarily have to be Rasheed. Some would have been religious sites or other sites of cultural importance. That'd be my take on it anyway. You might be better off asking that in the archaeology forum.

slowburner

Rasheed wrote: »

Quick question for ye, had a disagreement about this the other day. Are ring forts and fairy forts the same thing???

Ring forts are iron age/early Christian enclosures.
They're usually fairly circular and have a ditch and rampart.

Fairy fort is the colloquial term used to cover a multitude of earthworks, or the remains of built structures - from Neolithic burial mounds to Norman mottes and allsorts in between.
So ring forts are usually called fairy forts too.

JuliusCaesar

cormacocomhrai wrote: »

It's the placenta and it comes out on the baby's head at birth. I'm not fully sure of the details after that. Maudi would know more than me. Maudi also right on the spelling than me. I've never seen it written down.

As for the superstition itself. There may be some basis for it. One theory is that if you eat it it's supposed to help fight post natal depression. Healthy mother=happy/ lucky baby. Animals certainly eat it.

They are two different things: the 'caul' is the amniotic membrane - like cling film - which covers the fetus. It's like a kind of waterproofing from the fluid in which the fetus swims in the womb.

The placenta is a large liver-like thing from which the fetus derives its nourishment. The umbilical cord connects the placenta to the fetus. When the umbilical cord dries up and falls off, your belly button is left. While some babies are born placenta previa ie the placenta comes out first, rather than later, it's not the kind of thing that anyone would keep! BUT it is the thing that animals will eat after giving birth.

Sorry to butt in.

Rasheed

Well as far as I know with my limited maternity training, every child is born with a placenta, common knowledge.

A caul is much much rarer. Yes it is a membrane that covers the child in the womb but what makes a caul a caul is if the child is born with some membrane attached to it's head.

The older midwives would get very excited if a child with a caul was born o them and keep the caul if the parents allowed it, for its healing properties. True story!