Cheating in Exams........

finality

A person in my exam centre has had her phone out under the table for half the exam in at least 3 exams. It's a big room and she's right down the back, in the ideal spot for cheating (ie there are about 6 or 7 people directly between her and the supervisor's seat. He walks around a good bit but she hides the phone.

It seems so easy to cheat but I would never do it, I'd be freaking out, the stress wouldn't be worth it and I'd never know the grade I actually deserved.

I'm not going to report her, I know it's unfair that she might be cheating someone out of a college place but I don't want to absolutely ruin her life or have half the year hate me. I don't think she's going to do that well anyway to be honest.

J_E

No

Vetton wrote: »

If people looking to study medicine can't even get through the leaving without cheating, they'll be in for a shock when they go to third level 'cause they won't be able to keep up with the high demands of the course.

Not exactly fair to say. By the time you reach college you're (hopefully) studying in a field of area that you're actually interested in for the most part, unlike the state exams where you are forced to study Irish (bar being exempt), English Literature, and other areas. Some people may not have the aptitude for languages but may show an excellent aptitude for science. That's the blessing and curse of having such a wide subject range and having to do 6 subjects minimum.

subz3r0 wrote: »

In most cases it's their own laziness than anything else I think.
How hard could it be to learn off a couple of essays extra, especially if it means getting your dream course en-route to your dream job?

Let me ask you a question, do you think a person who rote learns their way through a subject is as deserving of an A as one who actually engages and understands the content? Surely it's the same as saying how hard could it be to cheat a little, to get your dream course. I suppose what I'm going into is another topic completely though, like Dapics says below.

Dapics

Cydoniac wrote: »

Depending on the student, I wouldn't say desperate, probably more worried and stressed that they might not succeed. Sometimes I wonder why more hopefuls for high-points courses like Physiotherapy and Medicine aren't caught cheating, the standards expected of them are somewhat unrealistic given that they have to have a good base on not only mathematics but languages and other fields that might be unrelated to their chosen area of interest. I don't know...it's a grey area. I'm not advocating cheating but you do have to wonder what motivates even some hard working students to cheat. Is the system itself to blame for expecting too much of them?

Well the LC inflicts so much stress on students, i mean for students who want to get 550+ points, its more than likely been all they have been working for all long. Due to the work they put in they would naturally enough be under more expectation to perform.

I can see where they are coming from. I wouldn't report anyone ever, I wouldn't be able to live with myself.
I mean that medicine student has worked so hard for his points, I would say he deserves them more than most people. Therefore I would let him get away with it, as if i would think that any student who wants to do medicine is a very intelligent being who should should be let cheat to a certain degree.

My Opinon. Lets not make this into a LC system discussion. This thread seems to be more about morality

I know this may come across in a bad way, but this is my opinion.

reznov

All of the hard working individuals in my year haven't taken to cheating, regardless of the effort invested. Only one waster was cheating who has done feck all throughout 6th year.

Namlub

If you're cheating, you're not 'working hard for the points'. Cheating is pretty much the antithesis of working and I genuinely don't think 'Oh, but what if he's going for med?' is a viable justification.

QueenOfLeon

No

Cydoniac wrote: »

Depending on the student, I wouldn't say desperate, probably more worried and stressed that they might not succeed. Sometimes I wonder why more hopefuls for high-points courses like Physiotherapy and Medicine aren't caught cheating, the standards expected of them are somewhat unrealistic given that they have to have a good base on not only mathematics but languages and other fields that might be unrelated to their chosen area of interest. I don't know...it's a grey area. I'm not advocating cheating but you do have to wonder what motivates even some hard working students to cheat. Is the system itself to blame for expecting too much of them?

If the Leaving Cert is putting too much pressure on them, they'll get a shock entering university, especially medicine. The content in one semester is more than all the subjects that you have sat for the Leaving Cert, and you had 2 years to prepare, compared to 3/4 months. The majority of it is regurgitating information and not all of it is nice and related to medicine, there are always modules which seem unrelated, or which you won't like, but you have to plough through them anyway and get on with it. If they can't get through the Leaving Cert without feeling like they need to cheat to succeed, they should sit back and figure out if they can handle a university course.

Vetton

Martin_94 wrote: »

But he is getting away with it and probably won't be caught. He probably will be able to get through college and he'll probably be a highly respected and well paid doctor. He obviously isn't the type of person who has much of a conscience either. This type of thing really annoys me.

That's why he should be outed. You really think if the places were the other way about, he wouldn't report someone cheating? If someone with this kind of information doesn't come forward, I hope they understand how little good not speaking up is doing.

J_E

No

QueenOfLeon wrote: »

If the Leaving Cert is putting too much pressure on them, they'll get a shock entering university, especially medicine. The content in one semester is more than all the subjects that you have sat for the Leaving Cert, and you had 2 years to prepare, compared to 3/4 months. The majority of it is regurgitating information and not all of it is nice and related to medicine, there are always modules which seem unrelated, or which you won't like, but you have to plough through them anyway and get on with it. If they can't get through the Leaving Cert without feeling like they need to cheat to succeed, they should sit back and figure out if they can handle a university course.

Fair enough, point taken.

Cruel Sun

No

I'm very surprised at the amount of people who have seen major cheating yet won't report it. Obviously Social Status* and being "Cool" is much more important to most people then "Justice" and "Integrity".

*among peers (popularity)

Togepi

No

Wanchor wrote: »

He let us go on at least at extra 8-10 minutes in the exam.

That's mental, I don't know how some people get away with stuff like this. Like examiners in the orals apparently pausing the tape to explain what they're saying in English, or asking what questions the student wants to be asked, or just giving them a free choice of sraith in Irish. Why would you give some students such an unfair advantage?

Wanchor wrote: »

In contrast, the new dude is a dick. He gives us our paper on the desk and we can't turn it over till the second hand strikes exactly on time.

How is he a "dick"? He's following the rules so that everyone in his centre has the same amount of time to do the exam, which is what every examiner is meant to do. If our one didn't do that I'd start every exam a few minutes late. If your new one is timing it to the second then he couldn't be any fairer.

reznov

But sure, Martin, what will the lads think? You know, the guys who don't really give a **** about education? Or the ones you won't see after school? They're above any sort of morals!

Cruel Sun

No

Vetton wrote: »

That's why he should be outed. You really think if the places were the other way about, he wouldn't report someone cheating? If someone with this kind of information doesn't come forward, I hope they understand how little good not speaking up is doing.

Exactly that's what I'm saying, I think you misunderstood my post. But what you said kind of implied "let em off, sure he won't get anywhere anyway".

Obviously he should be reported, and if it was up to me, he would be.

Dapics

Martin_94 wrote: »

I'm very surprised at the amount of people who have seen major cheating yet won't report it. Obviously "Social Status" and being "Cool" is much more important to most people then "Justice" and "Integrity".

I highly doubt its to do with someones social status or an attempt to fit in.

Anyone who has that approach to the topic would be quite the opposite.

That comment is in a way quite elitist.

Ultimately the reason most people dont bother reporting is because they have better things to be worrying about, they aren't bothered getting preoccupied over one poor misguided student who feels the need to cheat.

ChemHickey

No

I'd feel so guilty cheating. You'd consciously know you have stolen a course from someone else. and for all you know that person might have to repeat, costing them hundreds, thousands if they go to the institute or yeats.

My examiner left me alone in the room for a few minutes today. he went outside to talk to the attendant and closed the door. i was on my own for nearly 5mins! I think he knew I wouldn't dare cheat as I always was last out in my exams. (For the last 20mins of French it was just me and him!)

F9Devil

No

The attending examiner has to see the cheating themselves

Smiley Dave

I know of one person who cheated and I didn't nor am I going to report them. Even if it was my least favourite person in the year I wouldn't report them, it's not worth ruining someone's life over and life's too short for me to worry about things like that.

Cruel Sun

No

Dapics wrote: »

I highly doubt its to do with someones social status or an attempt to fit in.

Anyone who has that approach to the topic would be quite the opposite.

That comment is in a way quite elitist.

Ultimately the reason most people dont bother reporting is because they have better things to be worrying about, they aren't bothered getting preoccupied over one poor misguided student who feels the need to cheat.

I don't see how my previous comment is in any way elitist.

The reason most people don't report cheating is because they don't want to be labelled a "rat" a "fag" or any other stupid name that idiots will put on a person for doing the right thing.

Togepi

No

Namlub wrote: »

If you're cheating, you're not 'working hard for the points'. Cheating is pretty much the antithesis of working and I genuinely don't think 'Oh, but what if he's going for med?' is a viable justification.

I would've thought it almost made it more unfair. The amount of work people do to get into medicine, and this lad could beat someone who's worked their arse off in the hopes of getting a spot. They'd probably either repeat or end up doing four years of college and going into medicine afterwards. Totally unfair.

Hayezer

On the topic of cheating lads, the burning question: Would you sleep with chief examiner person in exchange for 600 points/points you want? If your a guy the examiners a guy, girl the examiners a girl. Discuss.

F9Devil

No

Maybe people would be more willing to report someone cheating if the 6(?) year state exam ban wasn't so outrageously harsh and in fairness life desroying?

FaoiSin

No

Smiley Dave wrote: »

I know of one person who cheated and I didn't nor am I going to report them. Even if it was my least favourite person in the year I wouldn't report them, it's not worth ruining someone's life over and life's too short for me to worry about things like that.

Yeah but they may be ruining someone else's life by forcing them out of their course.

Bears and Vodka

No

Cydoniac wrote: »

Let me ask you a question, do you think a person who rote learns their way through a subject is as deserving of an A as one who actually engages and understands the content?

I suppose having essays in your sock/toilet bin can not be classed as 'engaging with the content' either. If the person has resorted to cheating and having essay notes then he/she obviously resorted to rote learning. And if they have, well wouldn't you rote learn off a few more essays to get to your dream course?

PictureFrame

Hayezer wrote: »

On the topic of cheating lads, the burning question: Would you sleep with chief examiner person in exchange for 600 points/points you want? If your a guy the examiners a guy, girl the examiners a girl. Discuss.

Abso-friggin-lutely! I also would cheat if I knew I wouldn't get caught, alas:

'it cannot be but I am pigeon-livered and lack gall'

reznov

Hayezer wrote: »

On the topic of cheating lads, the burning question: Would you sleep with chief examiner person in exchange for 600 points/points you want? If your a guy the examiners a guy, girl the examiners a girl. Discuss.

Sure why not. I've practiced oral for two years anyway.

F9Devil

No

Hayezer wrote: »

On the topic of cheating lads, the burning question: Would you sleep with chief examiner person in exchange for 600 points/points you want? If your a guy the examiners a guy, girl the examiners a girl. Discuss.

Seriously? I'd do anything for 600 points.

Togepi

No

Dapics wrote: »

I highly doubt its to do with someones social status or an attempt to fit in.

Anyone who has that approach to the topic would be quite the opposite.

That comment is in a way quite elitist.

Ultimately the reason most people dont bother reporting is because they have better things to be worrying about, they aren't bothered getting preoccupied over one poor misguided student who feels the need to cheat.

I would say it's entirely to do with what your peers will think of you. Not so much fitting in, because you're finished school so it's a bit late for that! But the one thing that would put me off reporting someone is that if people knew, they'd hate me for it. I'd pretty much be labeled a massive b*tch by almost all of the year.

Hayezer

PictureFrame wrote: »

Abso-friggin-lutely! I also would cheat if I knew I wouldn't get caught, alas:

'it cannot be but I am pigeon-livered and lack gall'

I like your shtyle :pac:

spurious

ChemHickey wrote: »

My examiner left me alone in the room for a few minutes today. he went outside to talk to the attendant and closed the door. i was on my own for nearly 5mins! I think he knew I wouldn't dare cheat as I always was last out in my exams. (For the last 20mins of French it was just me and him!)

This. It's about personal standards of behaviour.

There are many people you could leave alone in an exam hall with the books on the table next to them and they would not touch them. You could leave them with an open purse or wallet and it would not be touched.

Then there are the others.

Oh they will shout that cheating is nothing like stealing, they will shout very loudly, but they know and everyone knows the truth.

Dishonesty comes in many disguises, but it is still dishonesty.

Killian In The Name Of

Hayezer wrote: »

On the topic of cheating lads, the burning question: Would you sleep with chief examiner person in exchange for 600 points/points you want? If your a guy the examiners a guy, girl the examiners a girl. Discuss.

:eek:

This thread is slowly descending into a hellpit of sin and fornication.

(:P)

Vetton

Martin_94 wrote: »

Exactly that's what I'm saying, I think you misunderstood my post. But what you said kind of implied "let em off, sure he won't get anywhere anyway".

Obviously he should be reported, and if it was up to me, he would be.

Nah, I meant that it was pathetic if he actually that cheating was benefiting him.