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Will the new generetion in Gaza want peace? Maybe not.

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Comments

  • #52
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    He did, and presumably saw that it was a big heap of whataboutery based on what he replied back to you.


    Not at all. The poster was trying to claim that there was clear water between what goes on one side and what goes on on the other. Thats not quite the case.


  • #53
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Nodin wrote: »
    Not at all. The poster was trying to claim that there was clear water between what goes on one side and what goes on on the other. Thats not quite the case.

    Nodin, I really don't think that your two links are closely related to the subject.

    My story was about killing the civilians of your enemy and not making peace with it.
    You bring up a link about a group that tells some girls not to marry Beduins.
    Well, it's bad but do you see the difference between those two? It's not a mild one.

    The second link was about "Marva, run by the Educational and Youth Corps of the Israel Defence Force and conducted entire year old members of the Diaspora. Dressed in boots and olive fatigues, aly in Hebrew, simulates the basic training of Israeli conscripts for 18-28nd obliged to carry an M16 assault rifle."

    How shocking.. Israel wants to attract young Jewish people to Israel to IDF service and Aliyah (immigration). Horrible.

    Look, if you carry a gun, it doesn't mean that you want to use it against innocents. Ask the local policeman..

    My point was quite different at start.


  • #54
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    ..........Look, if you carry a gun, it doesn't mean that you want to use it against innocents. Ask the local policeman
    .

    Our police are mostly unarmed.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    My point was quite different at start.

    Yes, the evil "other". We can all do that one.


  • #55
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Nope. My point was to give an example to one of the obstacles to lasting peace.

    You and many others often claim that if only Israel retreats to 67th borders, there will be peace.
    I say that with badly educated new generation of "freedom fighters" it is a much more complicated story. They don't do what they do in order to make peace in return to the 67th borders.
    Just another angle to the conflict. I'm not against the Palestinian people, and I don't present them as evil, though you like to make me sound that way.


  • #56
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Nope. My point was to give an example to one of the obstacles to lasting peace..

    ....by highlighting a minority group in Gaza, which conveniently draws attention away from the West Bank where this kind of thing goes on...
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18344116
    Theres nobody with a gun at Israels head making them build these things.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    You and many others often claim that if only Israel retreats to 67th borders, there will be peace.
    I say that with badly educated new generation of "freedom fighters" it is a much more complicated story. They don't do what they do in order to make peace in return to the 67th borders...

    There was no Islamic Jihad in 1967. Nor was there an Hamas. Yet as time goes on and justice is denied the palestinians these extremist groups arise. And oddly enough, Gaza is the place where this fanaticism has had a hand in preventing colonisation, because its not like the Abbas approach has paid off.


  • #57
    Patrick Cleburne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 141 ✭✭Patrick Cleburne


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Should you be reminded that Nassrallah is standing in the head of a terror organization? The 2006 war was his adventure and the killing and kidnapping the bodies of two Israeli reserves soldiers patrolling the border.

    Listen, you can't isolate kids from this **** because they are being exposed to it anyway. Rockets launches, terror attacks close to the borders (like today done by the Islamic Jihad from the Sinay side), and suicide bombers in the cities (more relevant to the past). The images on the TV, and the newspapers.. Maybe in Ireland you can isolate them... not here.

    The difference that I'm talking about are not if children know what weapons are, but what should they be used for.
    One side thinks much more than the other that innocent civilians are a legitimate target for using weapons.
    The kids should not be isolated from it anyway. In order to keep your country from being invaded and wiped off the face of the earth, the young Jewish kids need to understand they have to defend the future of the Jewish race and Israel.

    If Israel is destroyed, the victors will write the history and portray the Jewish people as the bad guys who are only defending their historic home. You should not apologise for anything on this forum mate.


  • #58
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Patrick Cleburne wrote: »
    The kids should not be isolated from it anyway. In order to keep your country from being invaded and wiped off the face of the earth, the young Jewish kids need to understand they have to defend the future of the Jewish race and Israel. .

    There are Jews outside Israel, you know. And 20% of Israelis are Palestinian muslims.


  • #59
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    Nodin wrote: »
    There are Jews outside Israel, you know. And 20% of Israelis are Palestinian muslims.

    KeithAFC can only see the Israel situation in terms of the siege mentality he has been brought up with.

    A 'little Ulster' on the Mediterranean with a pesky dispossessed minority.


  • #60
    Patrick Cleburne
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 141 ✭✭Patrick Cleburne


    Nodin wrote: »
    There are Jews outside Israel, you know. And 20% of Israelis are Palestinian muslims.
    Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. A Jewish state for a Jewish people. They are fully entitled to defend themselves and the land.


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  • #61
    BlaasForRafa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,020 ✭✭✭BlaasForRafa


    Nodin wrote: »
    There was no Islamic Jihad in 1967. Nor was there an Hamas. Yet as time goes on and justice is denied the palestinians these extremist groups arise. And oddly enough, Gaza is the place where this fanaticism has had a hand in preventing colonisation, because its not like the Abbas approach has paid off.

    There was a PLO in 1967, attacking Israel from Jordan, which had been occupying the West Bank since 1948. The Jordanians would finally get fed up with the PLO terrorists and went all Black September on them a few years later.

    Regarding Gaza, it wasn't "fanaticism" that influenced the Israeli pullout from Gaza, it was a political act from Ariel Sharon, if Israel had wanted the dismal uneconomic land of Gaza, it would have stayed there. The West Bank has much more productive land so is more attractive to settle, I'm not justifying it btw, just calling it as it is.

    Also, you seem to ignore that although settlement activities unfortunately continue in the West Bank, the Abbas governments less-hostile approach has led to an increase in living standards for the palestinian citizens of the West Bank and an increase in economic activity whereas Hamas's approach has led to the exact opposite in Gaza, aside from an increase in black market activity from which Hamas garners "taxes".


  • #62
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Also, you seem to ignore that although dispossession and colonizing unfortunately continue in the West Bank, the Abbas governments less-hostile approach has led to an increase in living standards for the palestinian citizens of the West Bank and an increase in economic activity

    So what?

    Living standards for slaves increased in the US - does that make slavery any less nasty?

    What a pathetic attempt to sugar coat the colonization of the W.B. and the apartheid conditions under which the Palestinians live.


  • #63
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    There was a PLO in 1967, attacking Israel from Jordan, which had been occupying the West Bank since 1948. The Jordanians would finally get fed up with the PLO terrorists and went all Black September on them a few years later. ".

    ....a situation where one party becomes outnumbered overnight by another in its own country is never going to end well.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Regarding Gaza, it wasn't "fanaticism" that influenced the Israeli pullout from Gaza, it was a political act from Ariel Sharon, if Israel had wanted the dismal uneconomic land of Gaza, it would have stayed there. The West Bank has much more productive land so is more attractive to settle, I'm not justifying it btw, just calling it as it is. ".

    The difficulty in providing security played its part in the territories being considered unsustainable as viable colonies.
    BlaasForRafa wrote: »
    Also, you seem to ignore that although settlement activities unfortunately continue in the West Bank, the Abbas governments less-hostile approach has led to an increase in living standards for the palestinian citizens of the West Bank and an increase in economic activity whereas Hamas's approach has led to the exact opposite in Gaza, aside from an increase in black market activity from which Hamas garners "taxes".

    So they're a better paid subjugated sub-class in their own land. Thats nice to know.


  • #64
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Patrick Cleburne wrote: »
    Israel is the homeland of the Jewish people. A Jewish state for a Jewish people. They are fully entitled to defend themselves and the land.


    Unfortunately its what they do outside their borders in terms of aggressive action that constitutes the problem.


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