Massive Call

Hatch99

All I am reading is that we have been punching above our weight, I think Harry has got to some of you. We have the best squad of players we have had for years and years but we are punching above our weight ? Were we punching above our weight when we were 10 points ahead of Arsenal, cmon, pull the other one.

jiltloop

Hatch99 wrote: »

All I am reading is that we have been punching above our weight, I think Harry has got to some of you. We have the best squad of players we have had for years and years but we are punching above our weight ? Were we punching above our weight when we were 10 points ahead of Arsenal, cmon, pull the other one.

Completely agree with this. We were not punching above our weight at all this season. We played better football than every other team bar City until February. Bad squad rotation and uncertainty at the club contributed to the downfall of our season and bad tactics were the cause of defeat in a handful of crucial games.

To say we should be happy with finishing 4th this season is very defeatist and it's that mentality which is the reason that we can't beat Utd even when our team is superior and when we have the run of form.

BERBA

Saab Ed wrote: »

We got lucky this year in the end. 3 more weeks and we'd have finished 5th again, exactly where Jol had us. QUOTE]

Got lucky? pull the other one , we were 10 points clear of arsenal.

Saab Ed

BERBA wrote: »

Saab Ed wrote: »

We got lucky this year in the end. 3 more weeks and we'd have finished 5th again, exactly where Jol had us. QUOTE]

Got lucky? pull the other one , we were 10 points clear of arsenal.

And look where that got us.

BERBA

[QUOTE=Saab Ed;79226104
And look where that got us.[/QUOTE]

thats my point , thats why we had to part company with the wheeler dealer.

marty2002

Hatch99 wrote: »

All I am reading is that we have been punching above our weight, I think Harry has got to some of you. We have the best squad of players we have had for years and years but we are punching above our weight ? Were we punching above our weight when we were 10 points ahead of Arsenal, cmon, pull the other one.

Exactly my feeling as well, find it very strange that people are saying its the end of a golden era and we are on our way back to the dark days considering that no players have left us. I wont forget the good times we had under Harry but i feel he has brought us as far as he can and cracks were indeed starting to appear especially regarding some crazy tactical decisions towards the end of the season. A younger more vibrant manager in the mould of AVB is exactly what our club needs.

WHL

I don't have any argument with those saying that we need to move to the next level. I am just not sure that a change of manager will get us there. I think that we need to have a much bigger stadium and be willing to pay much higher wages. These are outside the control of any manager. We are supposedly moving in the right direction on the stadium and hopefully the rest will follow. Until then we need a manager that could squeeze the best of what we have.
If you were guaranteed that the next manager would get us a top 4 place in two of the next three seasons would you take it. I would

yiddo59

WHL wrote: »

I don't have any argument with those saying that we need to move to the next level. I am just not sure that a change of manager will get us there. I think that we need to have a much bigger stadium and be willing to pay much higher wages. These are outside the control of any manager. We are supposedly moving in the right direction on the stadium and hopefully the rest will follow. Until then we need a manager that could squeeze the best of what we have.
If you were guaranteed that the next manager would get us a top 4 place in two of the next three seasons would you take it. I would

Course I would, Who wouldn't? But what worries me is that some suggest that a guy who the team that finished 2 places below us is the man for the job

On the rotation or lack of here some interesting stats thanks to Deanmrph n FTL

Here are the appearance stats (starts) for the top 6 teams' top 5 players.

Man City
Hart - 51
Silva - 46
Toure - 41
Lescott - 40
Barry/Aguero - 39

Man Utd
Evra - 47
Rooney - 42
De Gea - 39
Carrick - 38
Ferdinand - 38

Arsenal
Scezny - 46
Song - 44
Van Persie - 44
Koscielny - 41
Walcott - 39

Spurs
Walker - 46
Bale - 42
Modric - 41
BAE - 40
Kaboul - 39

Newcastle
Krul - 42
Simpson - 40
Guttierez - 40
Collocini - 39
Cabaye - 38

Chelsea
Cech - 55
Mata - 47
Cole - 46
Ramires - 44
Terry - 43

The players that played the most games for us played less than the players that played the most games for all of our main competitors apart from Newcastle who were not in Europe, and even then the 5 top appearance makers from them played a total of 4 games less than our top 5.

Teams with much better squads, and far better players to bring in than Corluka and Danny f**king Rose played their best players more than we did.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Totally agree with Hatch and co. about Harry, we had, and currently have, a better squad than Arsenal, and considering their injury problems and their appalling form at the start of the season it was nothing short of a failure finishing behind them. Can you imagine if the managers for both clubs were switched? Who do people think would finish higher then?

Hatch99

THFC wrote: »

Can you imagine if the managers for both clubs were switched? Who do people think would finish higher then?

Great Point.

tippspur

AVB was a disaster at Chelsea though lads.

boo3000

I don't know who i really fancy as the new boss but with regards getting rid of Harry I think on balance, it was a close call but probably the right thing to do. He hugely f**ked up towards the end of season and his flirting with the Engerland job was sickening. What really made us have to move on tho was Harry's failure to go for young players. I think that has to be our model at the club, we can't compete with some of the other big clubs on spending and wages so youth has to be our target. None of Harry's signings have been for the future and thats where we have to target and i think we're in a great position to do that.
I don't think Harry was a great manager, nothing he did in his career showed anything exceptional, with our current squad i think about half the premier league managers would have had us where we've been the last few years and I think quite few of that squad were Harry purchases.

yiddo59

tippspur wrote: »

AVB was a disaster at Chelsea though lads.

He's young and foreign he has to be the answer

jiltloop

I would be a bit hesitant about going with AVB, he might be a promising young manager but I think he's a bit of a risk. I really don't like how quickly Chelsea's usually solid defence fell to shambles under AVB. That would be a big cause for concern.

Hatch99

tippspur wrote: »

AVB was a disaster at Chelsea though lads.

In fairness now, I don't think you can judge him on his time at Chelsea, we all know the reasons why he failed their.

PogMoThoin

Yeah, Chelsea is a poisoned chalice, the pressure there is bigger than at any other club. He was hard done by IMO, he got the older players backs up (Terry, Lampard, Drogba etc.) by trying to make changes. He's probably learned lots from it and could be perfect for us. We have a good squad to build on. I would much prefer him to Martinez

2nd Row Donkey

Lets get the next big thing coming out of spain/portugal to guide us into the champions league ... oh wait, we tried that before with Ramos and how did that work out?!?!?

AVB is not the answer. He is a decent coach, hell he's probably way better then decent but he needs to go away and manage on the continent again for a few years and then he will comeback stonger then ever.

If he wasn't able to handle the senior players and ego's at chelsea what makes you think he could handle the likes of Gallas, Ade (if we re-sign), Bentley and so on. You need a strong personality who demands respect from the players. AVB did not get the respect of the chelsea team and he will struggle to get it at any top PL team if you ask me.

Yes, he is the polar opposite of HR in terms of coaching, tactics, set pieces etc but what HR lacked in that department he made up in other area like man management and motivation and you cant coach that.

It might work out, it might not. There's a risk with every managerial appointment - just look at hodgson @ liverpool. I'd prefer AVB to Martinez myself, and I'd prefer my neighbours dog over Benitez but it has to be Moyes for me unless DL has something big up his sleeve to be announced after the euro's.

Mr. Guappa

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Lets get the next big thing coming out of spain/portugal to guide us into the champions league ... oh wait, we tried that before with Ramos and how did that work out?!?!?

AVB is not the answer. He is a decent coach, hell he's probably way better then decent but he needs to go away and manage on the continent again for a few years and then he will comeback stonger then ever.

If he wasn't able to handle the senior players and ego's at chelsea what makes you think he could handle the likes of Gallas, Ade (if we re-sign), Bentley and so on. You need a strong personality who demands respect from the players. AVB did not get the respect of the chelsea team and he will struggle to get it at any top PL team if you ask me.

Yes, he is the polar opposite of HR in terms of coaching, tactics, set pieces etc but what HR lacked in that department he made up in other area like man management and motivation and you cant coach that.

It might work out, it might not. There's a risk with every managerial appointment - just look at hodgson @ liverpool. I'd prefer AVB to Martinez myself, and I'd prefer my neighbours dog over Benitez but it has to be Moyes for me unless DL has something big up his sleeve to be announced after the euro's.

Benitez is the pick of the bunch for me.. why are you so against him?

I don't think Moyes would suit Spurs at all tbh.

Robxxx7

2nd Row Donkey wrote: »

Lets get the next big thing coming out of spain/portugal to guide us into the champions league ... oh wait, we tried that before with Ramos and how did that work out?!?!?

AVB is not the answer. He is a decent coach, hell he's probably way better then decent but he needs to go away and manage on the continent again for a few years and then he will comeback stonger then ever.

If he wasn't able to handle the senior players and ego's at chelsea what makes you think he could handle the likes of Gallas, Ade (if we re-sign), Bentley and so on. You need a strong personality who demands respect from the players. AVB did not get the respect of the chelsea team and he will struggle to get it at any top PL team if you ask me.

Yes, he is the polar opposite of HR in terms of coaching, tactics, set pieces etc but what HR lacked in that department he made up in other area like man management and motivation and you cant coach that.

It might work out, it might not. There's a risk with every managerial appointment - just look at hodgson @ liverpool. I'd prefer AVB to Martinez myself, and I'd prefer my neighbours dog over Benitez but it has to be Moyes for me unless DL has something big up his sleeve to be announced after the euro's.

One of the biggest problems with Ramos was that he could hardly speak any English .... no such issue with AVB

jiltloop

Looks like it could be AVB with Tim Sherwood as Director of Football if one of the rags is to be believed. Might work if AVB was left to just deal with coaching and tactics etc and Sherwood dealt with agents, transfers and contracts.

Although I'm not a big fan of having Directors of Football. Would much rather have a manager with complete faith in his own vision looking after everything, but then again I don't think that's possible with Levy as he seemed to organise all the transfers when Harry was in charge. He did pretty well too actually.

2nd Row Donkey

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

Benitez is the pick of the bunch for me.. why are you so against him?

Mostly just because of the last season or two in charge of liverpool. I thought he lost his marbles altogether... abit like when Guillit was in charge of chelsea and making subs after 30-40 mins and swapping formations every 5 mins. He didnt know what he was doing from one week to the next. I honestly thought the guy was heading for a nervous breakdown. I think he lost some of the dressing room in the end (although some did want him back after Roy Hodgson was sacked).

Yes, he has an unbelievable start to his liverpool career but that team that one the CL was abit like Chelsea this year. You couldnt put it down to DiMatteo, it was down to the players, a serious amount of luck and some very negative football.


He also spent £220+ Million (and re-couped about £160m) in 5 years with no real return. His record in the league was 5th, 3rd, 3rd, 2nd and 5th or something like that which is good but I think redknapp would have achieved something similar over 5-6 years.

Other reasons - selling/dropping Alsono, buying Babbel, Riera , Josemi and God knowes how many other seriously dodgy Full backs.

I also think he left the club in worse shape then when he joined and he has a lot to answer for the state of their current team.

BERBA

[QUOTE=jiltloop;79238739 Might work if AVB was left to just deal with coaching and tactics etc and Sherwood dealt with agents, transfers and contracts. [/QUOTE]

Rest assured even if TS gets the DOF job he wont be dealing with agents and transfers. Levy owns all that.

jiltloop

BERBA wrote: »

Rest assured even if TS gets the DOF job he wont be dealing with agents and transfers. Levy owns all that.

Probably true, which begs the question, what's the point in having a DoF at all?

boo3000

I don't think having a Dof is such a bad idea in theory, i think it would be useful to have somebody at the club whose make sure every aspect of the club is working in the same direction, for Spurs i think that has to be developing young talent and playing attacking passing football. Managers seem to get the sack fairly quickly in the Premier league after a run of bad form and we're no different to other clubs there it seems.

Why then would the manager care if the u12's are being coached properly or if the club is attractive and supportive of teenage whizzkids, who could be five or six years away from first team football.

If we do get a Dof i think it's important the roles of them and the manager are laid down very clearly and there's no stepping on toes, it must also be a quality guy who knows what to do for the club and not just a puppet for Levy. Levy seems a great chairman but he's never gonna have the footballing knowledge for a Dof role.

Hatch99

A massive call yes, but jesus christ man, im as excited as fcuk. The best group of players we have had for years and years, and a couple more to come by the looks of it, and an ambitious young manager with a good tactical brain, COYS

davycc

you have taken the words right outta my mouth hatch!
Im walking around all day like im floating on air happy at the potential for awesomeness next season onwards.........

Hatch99

davycc wrote: »

you have taken the words right outta my mouth hatch!
Im walking around all day like im floating on air happy at the potential for awesomeness next season onwards.........

I'll be honest mate, I'm not expecting great great things straight away, but my vision for for AVB is to grow our club, our brand, hopefully be at the helm moving in to a new stadium, and build our club up for greater things overall.

Some of you will read this and laugh, and have already said it will be another santini or ramos, but I am confident this one will work.....BIOYC

yiddo59

Hatch99 wrote: »

A massive call yes, but jesus christ man, im as excited as fcuk. The best group of players we have had for years and years, and a couple more to come by the looks of it, and an ambitious young manager with a good tactical brain, COYS

And a dodgy man management record to boot! All part of the rollercoaster that is THFC

bogtreader

I hope it works out.hopefully he learned from his mistakes at chelsea.I think we have the squad more suited to his style of play.Please buy some good defenders for god sake

Hatch99

yiddo59 wrote: »

And a dodgy man management record to boot! All part of the rollercoaster that is THFC

In fairness, he wasn't the first manager that lot destroyed and won't be the last.