The Age Old Debate of Plagiarism vs Sampling

karaokeman

So we all hear stories about bands plagiarizing others, sampling parts of other songs to enhance their own, borrowing chords, melodies, lyrics, etc.

On other music forums you will see the odd thread "Band X plagiarized band Y", some a couple more times than others.

There are of course the obvious examples, Green Day's Boulevard of Broken Dreams vs Oasis' Wonderwall, I'm sure this was not a mistake as there's no way Green Day could have never heard the Oasis song it was such a massive hit and is still a huge radio time-killer for many. Likewise Oasis (who are T-Rex fans) had surely heard Bang A Gong before Noel first sat down with his guitar and wrote the intro to Cigarettes and Alcohol.

Or the RHCP's Can't Stop, which appears to have an uncannily similarity to Jeff Buckley's Eternal Life AND Smashing Pumpkins Cherub Rock, as well as Green Day's American Idiot vs Dillinger Four's Doublewhiskeycokenoice.

Thought it would be an interesting topic for discussion here, as I'm no doubt 100% aware there is no one on this forum (or in the world for that matter) who has heard every song in existence, and every version of that song. I've also heard of musicians who've stated "you can't write anything that hasn't been written before" and my previous point in this paragraph backs that up IMO.

Musically I'm just a beginner, can play a few chords on guitar and a few simple songs, however if I tried to write my own song I would do my level best to write a completely original song, but as there are thousands of songs I have never heard, what I write will certainly be very similar or very much the same to another song by some underground/unknown band.

Some call it "subconscious plagiarism" as in they were unaware of the rip-off at hand, but there are cases where the former song is so well known that it couldn't possibly have been accidental.

I'm also sure if Radiohead hadn't heard The Hollies The Air That I Breathe, they most certainly would have heard Sexie Sadie. The Beatles were also Chuck Berry fans so I'd assume they had at once listened to his You Can't Catch Me.

So if these musical giants are capable of using material they didn't create, what is the point in arguing one band plagiarized another, barr the odd case where they used the same chord progression as a vastly mainstream hit?

kunst nugget

Your post has said nothing about sampling at all

karaokeman

kunst nugget wrote: »

Your post has said nothing about sampling at all

Should have also mentioned Daft Punk who sampled left, right and centre.

And, a lot of musicians sample parts of others work and this still goes through as "plagiarism".

My point is, is there such a thing as originality, how can you know when you write a piece of music that it has never been done before?

martinedwards

we all have influences and pick up rhythms, chord structures and melodies from all over the place.

I've written sweet home alabama at least three times........

Irish Guitarist

John Lennon was taken to court over Come Together by the publishers of You Can't Catch Me. His album Rock And Roll was recorded as part of the settlement.

Cherub Rock by The Smashing Pumpkins was 'inspired' by a Cheap Trick song.

Cigarettes And Alcohol is a direct copy of Get It On (Bang A Gong).

These are examples of the artist in question deliberately using words or chords from another artists song to write their own music. There are other cases where songs just happen to sound similar.

I rarely play anything on the guitar that sounds like anyone else. That's not because I'm particularly original, I just know very little about music theory so I end up playing a bunch of random chords that most people would think don't sound good together.