3FE experience

duckworth

Anybody else notice a drop in quality in the filter coffees from 3FE?

Went into the Abbey street one yesterday and asked for a filter - they put some hot water water in a cup and then filled it up from some kind of filter machine.
The coffee was fine, but it didn't have the same depth of flavour it used to have.

For the same price they used to grind the beans fresh and make it in a Chemex. I used be fine with paying 3eur for the coffee, but its pretty steep now for what you're getting.

Also, the Grand Canal Dock still seem to do it to order, although they now do it with aeropress, which never gets the same wow factor on flavour as the Chemex. Brought a friend the other day and was pretty disappointed.

adrian522

duckworth wrote: »

Anybody else notice a drop in quality in the filter coffees from 3FE?

Went into the Abbey street one yesterday and asked for a filter - they put some hot water water in a cup and then filled it up from some kind of filter machine.
The coffee was fine, but it didn't have the same depth of flavour it used to have.

For the same price they used to grind the beans fresh and make it in a Chemex. I used be fine with paying 3eur for the coffee, but its pretty steep now for what you're getting.

Also, the Grand Canal Dock still seem to do it to order, although they now do it with aeropress, which never gets the same wow factor on flavour as the Chemex. Brought a friend the other day and was pretty disappointed.

They used a Kalita in GCS for me last weekend. I'd imagine if you prefer a Chemx they would be fine with that if you asked them to use one.

Very rarely get into town during the day so can't comment on the abbey street store.

puffishoes

Maybe a victim of it's own success.

I used to enjoy going and having the coffee done by the man himself who would pass some knowledge and it really felt like the "3fe experience"

Now it just feels like a run of the mill coffee shop.

Really disappointing to see as for me it was the only place for this unique feel in Ireland. Which previously i only found in the UK.

I think it has spurred on others to deliver a better product tho.

RIP

donnacha

duckworth wrote: »

Anybody else notice a drop in quality in the filter coffees from 3FE?

From my experience its improved over the years

duckworth wrote: »

Went into the Abbey street one yesterday and asked for a filter - they put some hot water water in a cup and then filled it up from some kind of filter machine.

I think those are the new Marco batch brewers they use - have had a mug or two and always enjoyed them.

duckworth wrote: »

For the same price they used to grind the beans fresh and make it in a Chemex. I used be fine with paying 3eur for the coffee, but its pretty steep now for what you're getting.

Did you ask for a Chemex? I'm sure if you had they would of sorted you - if you ever speak to Colin he is all about the customer and I'm pretty sure he gets that across to all his staff.

puffishoes wrote: »

Maybe a victim of it's own success.
I used to enjoy going and having the coffee done by the man himself who would pass some knowledge and it really felt like the "3fe experience"

C'mon - he has two shops now so he can't be in both places at once. I've ran into him on numerous occasions over the past 3 to 4 mths. In fact I've had better brews and espressos served by his staff than him.

P.S. If you want him to serve you today then don't expect him to be there as he is off respresenting Ireland at the World Barista Championships.
Looks like he has made it through to the finals also! http://new.livestream.com/worldcoffee/WBC2012semis

PPC

I'm sure they'd be more than happy to brew a Chemex if you asked.
The vast majority of customers don't want to wait 5 minutes for a filter coffee and would much rather a quick cup.
I've found they're more than accommodating of requests when you ask, Brian in 3FE GCS even ran through mojo'ing a brew with me to show me the process one day.

Don't be afraid to give feedback to them too, they really appreciate it and all involved benefit from it.

bro'

Believe Colin came a very respected 3rd place in finals ....http://new.livestream.com/worldcoffee/WBC2012finals

duckworth

I didn't ask for a Chemex because I asked for what I always ask for and got something different - I simply asked for a filter coffee.

On the menu they say filter coffee for 3, or Barista's choice for 3.50 (I'm not sure what this is) - I wasn't aware that you could ask for the method.

And I'm not sure the vast majority of people aren't prepared to wait 5 minutes - 90% of the people in there are coffee nerds - they're not looking for a quick in and out.

The coffee is still quite good - I've just found it lost it's wow factor - especially from the Marco Batch brewer they now use in Abbey Street. I'm not sure a coffee from that is worth 3 quid.

puffishoes

also i notice places that that used to use hasbean like murphy's don't stock it anymore.

wonder if it's related.

duckworth

I see Colin posted a link to this thread on Twitter.

Cue a load of people rolling their eyes and saying I don't know what I'm talking about.

I think I'm making a legitimate point though. I appreciate the logistics of doing to-order filter in a busy cafe is difficult - but I still say the taste is not what it used to be, in the Twisted Pepper especially.

puffishoes

Strange that he would post a link to it on twitter and not just engage with the thread.

Doodee

puffishoes wrote: »

Strange that he would post a link to it on twitter and not just engage with the thread.

I'm sure he will once he is back and settled from Vienna. Tbh, It warrants a well thought response which is more comfortably done with a keyboard and coffee than off an iPhone/iPad screen.

alastair

I saw Colin pouring a jar of Maxwell House into the back of the Marco boiler one morning. Maybe that's somehow related?














Disclaimer: I did NOT see Colin pouring a jar of Maxwell House into anything. It was Nescafe.

puffishoes

alastair wrote: »

I saw Colin pouring a jar of Maxwell House into the back of the Marco boiler one morning. Maybe that's somehow related?














Disclaimer: I did NOT see Colin pouring a jar of Maxwell House into anything. It was Nescafe.

There's the start of the twitter responses.

this isn't going to end well.

llatsni

@duckworth
Let me get you straight: You asked for a filter coffee, they gave you a filter coffee.

The rest is subjective - and in my opinion - mostly your problem.

There's plenty of coffees / methods that I try and do not like, but that is as interesting to me as the ones that really wow.

Try figure out *why* you didn't like the flavours of the coffee you received and not instantly leap to blaming it on the brew method or the shop. You might learn something and be able to provide some helpful feedback to the barista/owner and perhaps here.

adrian522

llatsni wrote: »

@duckworth
Let me get you straight: You asked for a filter coffee, they gave you a filter coffee.

The rest is subjective - and in my opinion - mostly your problem.

There's plenty of coffees / methods that I try and do not like, but that is as interesting to me as the ones that really wow.

Try figure out *why* you didn't like the flavours of the coffee you received and not instantly leap to blaming it on the brew method or the shop. You might learn something and be able to provide some helpful feedback to the barista/owner and perhaps here.

Love the way people are jumping down his throat because he had the gall to criticize 3FE which seems to be same sort of sacred cow for a lot of people on here.

In what way are the issues he has "his problem"?

Seem like perfectly valid criticisms to me. It shouldn't be up to the customer to figure out why the coffee isn't as good as it used to be (in his opinion).

duckworth

llatsni wrote: »

@duckworth
Let me get you straight: You asked for a filter coffee, they gave you a filter coffee.

The rest is subjective - and in my opinion - mostly your problem.

There's plenty of coffees / methods that I try and do not like, but that is as interesting to me as the ones that really wow.

Try figure out *why* you didn't like the flavours of the coffee you received and not instantly leap to blaming it on the brew method or the shop. You might learn something and be able to provide some helpful feedback to the barista/owner and perhaps here.

I've been hooked on 3FE for quite a while, and found the place beautiful. I've been in at least 30 times over the past couple of years.

All I was saying was this - the last few times I was there the coffee was fine, but not as spectacular as the previous times. I asked if anybody else had found this.

If you think this is my own problem, fair enough - but I think it's a legitimate point and a legitimate question. Alot of the negative posts here and on twitter seem to be attacking me as some kind of uneducated gob****e who doesn't know any better.

puffishoes

llatsni wrote: »

@duckworth
Let me get you straight: You asked for a filter coffee, they gave you a filter coffee.

The rest is subjective - and in my opinion - mostly your problem.

There's plenty of coffees / methods that I try and do not like, but that is as interesting to me as the ones that really wow.

Try figure out *why* you didn't like the flavours of the coffee you received and not instantly leap to blaming it on the brew method or the shop. You might learn something and be able to provide some helpful feedback to the barista/owner and perhaps here.

It's a bit like going to chapter one and asking for a soup getting handed a cup o soup coming here to complain and someone coming a long and saying

"you asked for soup and you got soup"

I'm sorry but this nonsense does not hold water, if he wanted any aul filter he could have went to starbucks you don't go to 3fe for a cupo soup.

alastair

Cup-a-soup metaphors etc aside, could it simply be that you preferred the earlier beans? I've had a number of coffees from 3FE that didn't float my boat at all, but it's been down to the beans - same story with the hasbean subscription - some you love, some not so much.

puffishoes

alastair wrote: »

Cup-a-soup metaphors etc aside, could it simply be that you preferred the earlier beans? I've had a number of coffees from 3FE that didn't float my boat at all, but it's been down to the beans - same story with the hasbean subscription - some you love, some not so much.

Try reading the original post, he didn't like how he was served the cup of coffee.

this has nothing to with soup, maxwell house or any other hilarious antidote.

Obviously every bag 3fe open will not be to everyones liking, of course there maybe times where it's very busy and people don't want to wait for X.

but in earlier times this would not have happened or at least the barista would have asked. how this is related to the standard of bean i have no idea.

duckworth

alastair wrote: »

Cup-a-soup metaphors etc aside, could it simply be that you preferred the earlier beans? I've had a number of coffees from 3FE that didn't float my boat at all, but it's been down to the beans - same story with the hasbean subscription - some you love, some not so much.

Yes, this is a possibility. Although I have had it on more than one occasion, so I'm guessing I have tried it with different kinds of beans.

It's difficult to describe what is missing - it lacked some depth of flavour, and seemed slightly stale or deadened. I can't really put it into words other than to say it wasn't amazing like it had been in the past.

llatsni

I'm not a 3FE fanboi. I am a good-coffee zealot. 3FE have never failed to serve me expertly brewed coffee: some of which I have not liked; but that is hugely different to putting it down to "a drop in quality". I challenged the OP to consider the difference.

Perhaps the brew method is not highlighting a certain flavour from a particular bean. Perhaps some customers put great value on the spectacle of Chemex. This type of feedback is what I consider helpful.

Anyone who has as much knowledge and enthusiasm for what they do as the guys at 3FE, deserves more than bland criticism.

alastair

puffishoes wrote: »

Try reading the original post, he didn't like how he was served the cup of coffee.

Ehh no. The stated problem was in the taste. I'm pretty sure thats all anyone cares about in their coffee.

I suspect you meant hilarious 'anecdote'?

ntlbell

alastair wrote: »

Ehh no. The stated problem was in the taste. I'm pretty sure that all anyone cares about in their coffee.

I suspect you meant hilarious 'anecdote'?

Maybe you missed this bit

Went into the Abbey street one yesterday and asked for a filter - they put some hot water water in a cup and then filled it up from some kind of filter machine.
The coffee was fine, but it didn't have the same depth of flavour it used to have.

For the same price they used to grind the beans fresh and make it in a Chemex. I used be fine with paying 3eur for the coffee, but its pretty steep now for what you're getting.

alastair

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe you missed this bit

Went into the Abbey street one yesterday and asked for a filter - they put some hot water water in a cup and then filled it up from some kind of filter machine.
The coffee was fine, but it didn't have the same depth of flavour it used to have.

For the same price they used to grind the beans fresh and make it in a Chemex. I used be fine with paying 3eur for the coffee, but its pretty steep now for what you're getting.

I missed none of this - he asked for filter, got filter, and didn't rate the taste.

ntlbell

I really hate to agree as I really loved 3Fe i have introduced so many people to 3fe.

Colin single handedly change everything I thought about coffee and now end up on too many coffee subs and drinking far too much coffee

but have stopped going to 3fe.

I can't really put my finger on what has changed either. the coffee? the atmosphere, the clientele I'm really not sure.

alastair your fanboy ****e is not helpful.

ntlbell

alastair wrote: »

I missed none of this - he asked for filter, got filter, and didn't rate the taste.

Re-read puffi's post, you seem to be taking certain parts of posters posts to suit you.

He wasn't expecting to someone to throw water into a cup.

It's fairly obvious why he wasn't happy.

llatsni

I think what annoys me most about this is that I'm absolutely certain if the OP had even hinted that they didn't like the filter coffee at the time, the Barista would have helped them figure out why and prepared something else.

alastair

ntlbell wrote: »

alastair your fanboy ****e is not helpful.

As opposed to your vague and undefined issues with 3FE? I'm honest enough to point out that coffee is a moveable and inconsistent feast - that won't satisfy you every time. I also think 3FE filter/chemex is poorer value than it used to be - simply on volume served - I'm not that great as a fanboy.

The OP had an issue with the taste of their coffee - anything beyond that is (as pointed out earlier) pretty subjective.

alastair

ntlbell wrote: »

Re-read puffi's post, you seem to be taking certain parts of posters posts to suit you.

He wasn't expecting to someone to throw water into a cup.

It's fairly obvious why he wasn't happy.

Yep - the coffee was lacking in taste. The Marco is a complete red herring.

puffishoes

alastair wrote: »

As opposed to your vague and undefined issues with 3FE? I'm honest enough to point out that coffee is a moveable and inconsistent feast - that won't satisfy you every time. I also think 3FE filter/chemex is poorer value than it used to be - simply on volume served - I'm not that great as a fanboy.

The OP had an issue with the taste of their coffee - anything beyond that is (as pointed out earlier) pretty subjective.

If I knew exactly what was wrong, I'd point out to col himself. But instead of coming here from a twitter post and blindingly defending 3fe I'm being honest to.

I'm sorry I'm not an expert and can only give my uneducated opinion on MY experience.

I take it you'll allow me this?

alastair

puffishoes wrote: »

If I knew exactly what was wrong, I'd point out to col himself. But instead of coming here from a twitter post and blindingly defending 3fe I'm being honest to.

I'm sorry I'm not an expert and can only give my uneducated opinion on MY experience.

I take it you'll allow me this?

My post wasn't directed towards you, now, was it?

ntlbell

alastair wrote: »

As opposed to your vague and undefined issues with 3FE? I'm honest enough to point out that coffee is a moveable and inconsistent feast - that won't satisfy you every time. I also think 3FE filter/chemex is poorer value than it used to be - simply on volume served - I'm not that great as a fanboy.

The OP had an issue with the taste of their coffee - anything beyond that is (as pointed out earlier) pretty subjective.

I'm not vague at all the over all expirence has changed from what it once was

i can't pin point _exactly_ what needs to be fixed but i'm sure C will take this thread on board and do something as he has been so accommodating over the years

this is not a bash 3fe for no apparent reason thread and your taking it to personally imo

puffishoes

alastair wrote: »

My post wasn't directed towards you, now, was it?

I have spoke to a lot of people on the subject that feel the same and a lot of have said the same thing that they don't feel 3fe is offering what it did before but couldn't put their finger on it.

maybe it's they're not all experts on coffee and it's establishment's.

But there is something missing and to just blame the poster is not very helpful the point is he wasn't given the experience he expected.

it's in the subject

alastair

ntlbell wrote: »

I'm not vague at all the over all expirence has changed from what it once was

i can't pin point _exactly_ what needs to be fixed

Right.

It's either the ambience, the punters, or the coffee.

No vagueness there then. :rolleyes:

ntlbell

alastair wrote: »

Right.

It's either the ambience, the punters, or the coffee.

No vagueness there then. :rolleyes:

Maybe it's everything as i said i'm not an expert i'm just stating what i feel. maybe it's been frequented by too many arseholes.

ch2008

Hey all, sorry for taking so long to reply. I just landed yesterday and I'm working bar today at GCS as well as catching up with emails and wholesale clients so I'm just getting to this now.

There seems to be a lot of isssues raised in this thread so I'll address them one at a time if thats ok. I may miss one or two so feel happy to poke me if I do

The batch brewer. The best cup of filter coffee I've had this year came from that batch brewer. Its a Marco Filtro shuttle and delivers incredibly consistent coffee and is dialled in meticulously .It cost more than most people spend on espresso machines and the grinder to go with it is also top of the range. I love it, the guys at hasbean, squaremile and many other folks in our industry love them but unfortunately there is a negative perception of batch brew coffee.

They use them at the world cup tasting championships,and our old mate REACTOR from boards is invoved with their develepment and is also a strong proponent of them. We have a huge job changing peoples opinions on batch brew coffee but I'm certain that in time the quality will speak for itself. We wouldn't have put it in if we ween't 100% sure of the quality. When we opened 3FE first most people laughed at the idea of selling filter coffee, I see this as a similar challenge in changing perceptions.

The aeropress is definitely different to a chemex but is equally tasty. We use this as our main brewer as it delivers a really clean cup and retains heat quite well which was an issue for a lot of customers in the past.

In saying that, like any brew method sometimes it goes wrong so there may have been a glitch there. There is also a chance that maybe you just didn't like that particular coffee? we change them every week so sometimes it doesn't suit everybody, its one downside to having a seasonal menu.

Also, we wouldn't have filled the cup with hot water, what I imagined would have happened was that they were heating your cup?

If you would prefer a hand-poured drip, just ask the guys. They'd be more than happy to oblige.

As far as wholesale is concerened, we have indeed stopped supplying Murphys but that is the only contract we have stopped with. In fact we've grown to include other places like roasted brown, brother hubbard, base, cinnimon, cup and many others and have recently even closed our books and turned people away so that we can focus on quality. Our wholesale supply has never been stronger and we're looking to kick on again in the next few months.

In terms of the quality of staff and coffee I am 100% sure it has never been better. We had 3 competitors at the World Championships this week which is unprecedented anywhere and we also gained 1st and 2nd at the IBC as well as a Slovakian Barista championship and Irish Brewers cup champ.

We also received an RAI award or best coffee experience and have many favourable reviews both nationally and internationally. We've invested heavily in new equipment and training and will continue to do so in the next few months. The coffee we're sourcing has improved year-on-year and we're buying the best we can get our hands on.

More than that though I am really proud of the team we've assembled at 3FE. They work tirelessly and have an incredible passion for what they do. I seem to be getting criticised for not working bar all the time but I can assure you that the only reason I feel comfortable doing this is because I have 100% faith in all of my staff. We have grown to employ 13 people and unfortunately this involves a lot of clerical and admin work. I'd love to be amking coffee 24/7 but at the moment I'm a little restricted, though still workl machine every day.

It would be impossible for me to make every cup, and also completely unneccessary. Making coffee is not a gift, its just understanding the variables, learning about the product and ultimately caring. All my staff are selected on this basis and not one is lagging behind.

I have from day 1 always tried to run the business off the same set of standards and procedures and everyone adheres rigourlessly to those rules. Yes there are times when bad coffees slip through, it happens everywhere, but saying that never happened before is probably just nostalgia.

I understand that sometimes you amy have a bad experience but thats the game we're in. We serve thousands of people every week and it keeps me awake at night worrying about pleasing them all.

Most importantly though, if there's a problem by all means say so. All of our staff are extremely open to feedback and will always fix a problem if they can.

I can only give my own opinion on this but I can honestly say that I believe 3FE has never been serving better quality coffee. I'm happy to discuss this with anyone who's had a bad experience if they like. You can get me at hello (at) 3fe (dot) com and I'd be happy to talk to you about it.

Many thanks,

Col

(p.s. thanks for the kind words on the comps, delighted with 3rd but raring to go again!)

ch2008

ntlbell wrote: »

Maybe it's everything as i said i'm not an expert i'm just stating what i feel. maybe it's been frequented by too many arseholes.

Bit much no?

The Hill Billy

@Ntlbell - Quit with the personal jibes & stick to discussing the coffee.

tHB

ntlbell

Colin,

Thanks for coming a long to the thread I've seen you post on a number of occasions now and you constantly go above and beyond the call of duty.

All the items you listed above I don't think are in doubt and if I could be more helpful and figure out exactly what it is I'll mail you.

The only thing i didn't like on this thread was people coming a long obviously attracted by your tweet and to blame the POSTER you can't control this.

but a customer should never have to prove why his expectations were not met a number of posters have stated they don't get the 3Fe experience anymore and could be something as simple as you not being there as much and frankly as you grow this cannot be helped and you're right maybe it's just "nostalgia"

donnacha

now that we are all friends again I suggest someone should step up and get a group buy going

duckworth

Thanks for the response Colin.

I'll keep everything you said above in mind next time I'm in.

A question on the Batch Brewer - By the nature of the machine, the coffee must be sitting around in it for a long time. Does this not affect it? Surely it will lose some element of freshness when it has been sitting there for a couple of hour, no?

Also, what is the Barista's Choice filter on the menu? You used to have a blackboard with three coffees on it - has that gone?

ch2008

ntlbell wrote: »

Colin,

Thanks for coming a long to the thread I've seen you post on a number of occasions now and you constantly go above and beyond the call of duty.

All the items you listed above I don't think are in doubt and if I could be more helpful and figure out exactly what it is I'll mail you.

The only thing i didn't like on this thread was people coming a long obviously attracted by your tweet and to blame the POSTER you can't control this.

but a customer should never have to prove why his expectations were not met a number of posters have stated they don't get the 3Fe experience anymore and could be something as simple as you not being there as much and frankly as you grow this cannot be helped and you're right maybe it's just "nostalgia"

Yep, couldn't agree more. A very subjective thing.

I do think though that the experience is as good as ever. I get emails every week from customers who've been served by members of staff who've had a wonderful experience. There's even customers who give me the cold shoulder when I address them cause they have no idea who I am and prefer the other staff to serve them!

duckworth wrote: »

Thanks for the response Colin.

I'll keep everything you said above in mind next time I'm in.

A question on the Batch Brewer - By the nature of the machine, the coffee must be sitting around in it for a long time. Does this not affect it? Surely it will lose some element of freshness when it has been sitting there for a couple of hour, no?

Also, what is the Barista's Choice filter on the menu? You used to have a blackboard with three coffees on it - has that gone?

The coffee is filtered through a paper and the resulting beverage is actually only 1.3% coffee, as is all filter coffee (approx), so it wont keep extracting in the urn itself.

They're heat sealed containers but not a heating plate, as the latter tends to make it quite stodgy. We change the batch every 30mins or so and use it only at busy times so it usually disappears before that. I've actually had coffees after 2 hours from the urns that have been amazing!

The "Baristas choice" is just a more expensive option that we might have in. This was just for the printed menus as its too expensive to print menus every week so it just lets people know that there's another option for coffee. Lately though its been the same price as the regular offering but this may change.

The board is still king for coffees on offer though, we have the farms listed at both shops so feel free to ask about them. The Nicaraguans we have coming in soon are amazing.

RE*AC*TOR

To answer the OP.

No I have not noticed a drop in quality from the filter coffees in 3FE.

ntlbell

RE*AC*TOR wrote: »

To answer the OP.

No I have not noticed a drop in quality from the filter coffees in 3FE.

not doubting your opinion, but it's not the most objective one is it? although one of the most qualified

Mr Magnolia

ntlbell wrote: »

not doubting your opinion, but it's not the most objective one is it? although one of the most qualified

In fairness, if you know RE*ACT*OR or keep up with the blog you'd have a good understanding of his objectivity.

puffishoes

Mr Magnolia wrote: »

In fairness, if you know RE*ACT*OR or keep up with the blog you'd have a good understanding of his objectivity.

A friend of Col's is hardly an objective view on 3fe

steve may aswell come a long and do a podcast saying how great it is.

It maybe valid and steve certainly has the expertise to decide, but it wouldn't be objective.

Slaphead07

puffishoes wrote: »

A friend of Col's is hardly an objective view on 3fe

steve may aswell come a long and do a podcast saying how great it is.

It maybe valid and steve certainly has the expertise to decide, but it wouldn't be objective.

Snide digs at a man's business isn't objective either.

puffishoes

Slaphead07 wrote: »

Snide digs at a man's business isn't objective either.

I didn't make any?

Slaphead07

“Now it just feels like a run of the mill coffee shop.... RIP”

“also i notice places that that used to use hasbean like murphy's don't stock it anymore.... wonder if it's related.”

“It's a bit like going to chapter one and asking for a soup getting handed a cup o soup”

puffishoes

Slaphead07 wrote: »

“Now it just feels like a run of the mill coffee shop.... RIP”

I don't see how this is a snide comment it was my last experience and opinion of it.

Slaphead07 wrote: »

“
“also i notice places that that used to use hasbean like murphy's don't stock it anymore.... wonder if it's related.”

huh? murphy's stopped stocking hasbean this is a fact not a snide comment.

Slaphead07 wrote: »

“
“It's a bit like going to chapter one and asking for a soup getting handed a cup o soup”

this was response to another poster about coffee is coffee, nothing snide to Colin or about 3Fe It was about the poster's post.

Please read the thread more carefully before making accusations like the above.

Slaphead07

It's not an accusation it's an opinion. One I stand over.