Neighbours from Hell

reeta

We are living in a private estate, unfortunately for the last five years, at least, we have been suffering from extreme anti social behaviour from one of our neighbours, e.g. music blaring constantly, drug dealing in garden, screaming and shouting all night. You get the jist. The guards practically live at the house at this stage.

All the surrounding neighbours have had constant meetings with guards, who have no power to enter house but can just ask them to turn music down! There would not be enough time in the day to explain all thats been going on for years. We have now (after advice from guards) decided to bring them to the Civil Court and have started the process. My biggest worry is the repercussions when we hand over the summons to them. Has anyone been through this as any advice would be most welcome !!

OldNotWIse

reeta wrote: »

We are living in a private estate, unfortunately for the last five years, at least, we have been suffering from extreme anti social behaviour from one of our neighbours, e.g. music blaring constantly, drug dealing in garden, screaming and shouting all night. You get the jist. The guards practically live at the house at this stage.

All the surrounding neighbours have had constant meetings with guards, who have no power to enter house but can just ask them to turn music down! There would not be enough time in the day to explain all thats been going on for years. We have now (after advice from guards) decided to bring them to the Civil Court and have started the process. My biggest worry is the repercussions when we hand over the summons to them. Has anyone been through this as any advice would be most welcome !!

Experienced something similar (though I was fortunate enough that I was renting so I could take the decision to move lightly). I really feel for you. People like this work on the premise that other people are afraid of them, and afraid of the consequences should they "snitch" - this is how they control and intimidate - they know most ordinary decent people are afraid of what they can do. Not trying to be a scaremonger but do you have pets? One of mine went missing after an altercation with similar neighbours that I had, and shortly after that, a bag of meat was left on our front door in what I can only assume was an attempt to "show" that they would poison my dog if they wanted. I would certainly be keeping the animals in if you go down this route. I wish I could be of more help to you

reeta

Thank you for your reply. Funny you should mention pets. Yes I do have a dog, who I obviously absolutely adore, and the thought has crossed my mind. But my neighbour attached to me has had one of these scumbags call to her house to tell her to keep the dogs quiet or he will set bigger dogs on them !!! The couple whose house is attached to them are on the verge of a nervous breakdown, they have no pets or children. I am also afraid my kids (late teens) would be attacked by them out some night because of court cast. I hope this doesnt sound bad, but most people would consider were we live one of the nicest parts of south dublin !! I would live anywhere for peace and quiet. Just so nervous going down the Civil Court route.

Graces7

Surely the Gardai can do more than this?

We had a renewal of trouble with the old man up the lane here ( long story) and I realised that the local Gardai were doing nothing so wrote to the Chief Superintendant without being confrontational.

For the very first time, they sent an officer to take a formal statement.
And he had no awareness of the visits already made to the station..

We have known of this kind of thing before. That they just kind of paper over and do nothing unless you make a real fuss. ie go to the very top.

Drugs? No power of entry? That does not sound right.

Zamboni

Are they in social housing, private owners or private renters?

reeta

Thanks Grace7 for reply. They did do a drug raid a couple of years ago, but found nothing.Unfortunately if they had of told us they were doing that we would have told them where to find them in the garden.Our biggest issue is the constant blaring music. We had a three hr. meeting in garda station the other night (one of many) and again
while they are well known to the guards for "more serious crimes" there is nothing they can do about the music. They feel it is only a matter of time before he is locked up. However that doesnt help us in the middle of the night. We would love to know the procedure re civil court....

reeta

Private house....

reeta

Zamboni wrote: »

Are they in social housing, private owners or private renters?

Sorry more details: private owners of house.

Zamboni

reeta wrote: »

We have now (after advice from guards) decided to bring them to the Civil Court and have started the process. My biggest worry is the repercussions when we hand over the summons to them. Has anyone been through this as any advice would be most welcome !!

Who is bringing them to court? Is it a neighbour/residents committee?
What is the aim of bringing them to court?

sweeney1971

For the amount it will cost to take legal proceedings, why not just get some lads in to sort them?

christmas2012

get a camera and mount it at the window facing the neigbhbours house,and keep a diary of all events that occur..

you can later use this as evidence if they harrassed or threatened you..

reeta

Neighbours bringing them to court. Its a civil court case where we all have to stand up and describe what is going on before a judge. The "eighbours from hell" give their side also. The judge then makes a ruling on either 1. music to be played at a certain level 2. Music to be played within a certain time 3. No music to be played at all. Only then can the guards go in and arrest them if they break the ruling imposed on them. According to guards it is the only way to sort this out, they have no powers whatsoever with noise issue.

reeta

christmas2012 wrote: »

get a camera and mount it at the window facing the neigbhbours house,and keep a diary of all events that occur..

you can later use this as evidence if they harrassed or threatened you..

We have noted all events for the last three years (huge folder at this stage). Two neighbours also have camera's, but they can not have them facing the house as
its against the law !!! Also it actually costs very little much to bring them to the civil court, you cannot even bring a solicitor to represent you. You have to do it all yourself,
which means standing in a court telling all while the scumbags are sitting there....

Zamboni

reeta wrote: »

We have noted all events for the last three years (huge folder at this stage). Two neighbours also have camera's, but they can not have them facing the house as
its against the law !!! Also it actually costs very little much to bring them to the civil court, you cannot even bring a solicitor to represent you. You have to do it all yourself,
which means standing in a court telling all while the scumbags are sitting there....

You should be fine. You appear to have the guards on your side.
Sticking together will be important.
Obviously keep an extra eye on your kids and the neighbours kids and make sure they are doing the same for yours.
You have all done the groundwork - just see it over the line. Best of luck.

Graces7

reeta wrote: »

We have noted all events for the last three years (huge folder at this stage). Two neighbours also have camera's, but they can not have them facing the house as
its against the law !!! Also it actually costs very little much to bring them to the civil court, you cannot even bring a solicitor to represent you. You have to do it all yourself,
which means standing in a court telling all while the scumbags are sitting there....

Gets worse, doesn't it?

I know you may well have done this already so please forgive me, but have you sought free legal advice via the Citizen;s Info?

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/environment/environmental_protection/noise_regulations.html

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1702&Lang=1

Also the Council do have some powers. Also the Gardai now have the power to impose ASBOs in ireland.. anti-social-behaviour orders, and there is fairly new legisalation re noise pollution and the power now given to the Gardai to impose immediate fines.

http://www.herald.ie/news/nuisance-noise-makers-to-face-onthespot-fine-1724564.html

Did this ever get through? We have recently made progress with our local crowbanger addict by making a complaint to the Gardai

My heart goes out to you.


We have had noise issues over the years; we also had help from the EPA. ( Environmental Protection Agency) at one time. They cannot act but will put a rocket under local council, who do have powers in this area. ie noise like this



There should be more help for you than feeling intimidated.

edellc

OP the guards need a kick up their back sides

playing music at all hours is anti social and there is a noise pollution law and if like you say they are playing it at all hours ring the guards and report it, they do have the power to come and get it switched off (had to do this myself a few years ago in the apartment complex I lived in so I know they have the right to do it and to enter the property also)

As for the drugs, when you see it happening, ring the guards and report it

there is no point sitting around having meetings and them saying oh we cant do this and that, yes they bloody well can what are they paid for if they are not getting paid to keep the peace????

every time there is something ring the guards and keep ringing and reporting and get the neighbours to ring every time too

your being led up the garden path by the guards and need to start wrecking their heads so they do something

a civil case will be costly, and even if a judge says that they have to keep their music within the limits of the "Noise pollution act" (the guards should be doing that tbh) who says these tenants are going to do it, and then what do you do, oh yeah ring the guards and what do they do, oh we cant do anything??? yes the bloody well can, your civil case is not necessary get the guards to actually do their job

pwurple

I've had drug dealer neighbours before, and we ended up moving out. Maybe yours aren't as nasty as ours.... I sure hope so!

I used to call the guards every blasted time I saw it happening. Eventually I think the neighbours copped that it was us complaining, after about a year of it.

Over the space of a month myself and my boyfriend at the time both had our cars burnt out in front of our house, garden doused in petrol another night and set on fire, and his motorbike stolen, and a brick chucked through the front window. This wasn't a troubled area by any means, it was Douglas in Cork, but you can get ****ty enighbours anywhere.

Graces7

edellc wrote: »

OP the guards need a kick up their back sides

playing music at all hours is anti social and there is a noise pollution law and if like you say they are playing it at all hours ring the guards and report it, they do have the power to come and get it switched off (had to do this myself a few years ago in the apartment complex I lived in so I know they have the right to do it and to enter the property also)

As for the drugs, when you see it happening, ring the guards and report it

there is no point sitting around having meetings and them saying oh we cant do this and that, yes they bloody well can what are they paid for if they are not getting paid to keep the peace????

every time there is something ring the guards and keep ringing and reporting and get the neighbours to ring every time too

your being led up the garden path by the guards and need to start wrecking their heads so they do something

a civil case will be costly, and even if a judge says that they have to keep their music within the limits of the "Noise pollution act" (the guards should be doing that tbh) who says these tenants are going to do it, and then what do you do, oh yeah ring the guards and what do they do, oh we cant do anything??? yes the bloody well can, your civil case is not necessary get the guards to actually do their job

Thank you; and amen to all this. I was beginning to wonder!

We had endless aggression and vandalism by the octagenarian up the road. Last year he came in when I was out and smashed the gate down.. it was riveted to a large metal post so he must have had an axe etc?

Smashed garden furniture, etc etc etc,, oh and used the driveway as the ll colloquially put it, to do his toilet.

Threw the gas cylinder around.. stole my spare..

I got the gardai out again; they suggested on the phone I leave the car outside as the gate was jammed!

When they came I demanded they do something and they said there was nothing they could do... This will be familiar to you? I stood there and wondered where I was living.

The only reason they stopped him was that when they went to him he threatened to kill them and raised his fists to them. NB I heard about this from our ll not from the gardai.

In all that time, I was never asked to make a statement.. Each time I typed one out ready.. I got the same chat as they are giving you. Oh it's in the system..
System my eye!

When it started again I went over the local station's head and this time we were asked to make a formal statement.

All is quiet again thankfully.

as edllc says, they are flannelling you. Go over their heads, please.

You deserve far better than this.
You really do!

Blessings and peace

reeta

Thanks for all the replies. Firstly we dont sit around having meetings, secondly all the neighbours ring the guards on an almost daily basis.The guards confirmed they get on average 4/5 calls from us per week. The guards have taken statements but also told us unlikely we will get them for the civil court case. This situation has taken up so much of all our time it is unbelievable. I am going to ask my neighbours to look at this thread because you would not believe how many times, over and over again, the guards have told us they can do nothing about noise. I have checked and the guards cannot enter a property unless allowed to. I also witnessed a fight between a crowd of the scumbags and two guards in their front garden and I thought great now they will arrest him. But no they actually drove away. We were told by guards "they would get him" when he turns 18, but again nothing has been done.We have tried constantly to get to the superintendant but our calls are never returned. After reading your replies I am going to go further on this and demand to speak to superintendant, the community guard who looks after this, while very nice, it is now obvious could be doing more.... Will keep you posted.

Graces7

reeta wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Firstly we dont sit around having meetings, secondly all the neighbours ring the guards on an almost daily basis.The guards confirmed they get on average 4/5 calls from us per week. The guards have taken statements but also told us unlikely we will get them for the civil court case. This situation has taken up so much of all our time it is unbelievable. I am going to ask my neighbours to look at this thread because you would not believe how many times, over and over again, the guards have told us they can do nothing about noise. I have checked and the guards cannot enter a property unless allowed to. I also witnessed a fight between a crowd of the scumbags and two guards in their front garden and I thought great now they will arrest him. But no they actually drove away. We were told by guards "they would get him" when he turns 18, but again nothing has been done.We have tried constantly to get to the superintendant but our calls are never returned. After reading your replies I am going to go further on this and demand to speak to superintendant, the community guard who looks after this, while very nice, it is now obvious could be doing more.... Will keep you posted.

Steam coming out of my ears here! Our community guard seems nice too... Tried telling me the old man was "not that bad..." and his face dropped when we assured him we were staying here. he claimd that the previous tenants here had got on well with him ( ie blame us!) but the old man had stold us that he was going to see us out on the land as he had done the others.

They will do nothing unless pushed hard from behind. They don;t want the hassle or the paperwork etc

The only time we have had action is when we have gone to the top. Even once when I was assaulted.

Someone said that they are as much use as a chocolate fireguard.

Guardians of the Peace; peace at all costs.

They know me locally now and when I went in to the local station to ask re the crowbanger there was immediate action. That too was a noise issue.

Please use the Gardai complaint system; see their web site. Might do wonders' they have an Ombudsman too

Oh and everything in writing; leave a paper trail all the way ... Our letter worked and fast.

Victor

sweeney1971 wrote: »

For the amount it will cost to take legal proceedings, why not just get some lads in to sort them?

Advocating illegal behaviour is not acceptable.

sligoface

unfortunately, in this country the scumbags have the ordinary people over a barrel as the guards cant/wont do anything unless they can, as they said to you, 'get him' for something serious (and can prove it). and even then the sentencing in this country is so light, it is barely a deterrent. as you know by now, the cops cannot protect you (they carry sticks ffs) and in my experience are really not interested in doing so either. you will be only heaping more misery on yourself by going the legal route. you don't want the 'serious crime' these cops are waiting for to 'get him' on to be something involving you/your household/dog, etc. you will still be living in fear as even if they are locked up it won't be for long enough.

somthing similar i dealt with: my girlfriend was assaulted walking her dog by some random junkie from the drug dealers who lived near us who was who was 'well known to the gardai' and they came and did nothing just let her walk away, as they can only arrest in the case of assault causing grievous harm or some bs - basically since she didnt have broken bones or get knocked unconscious there was no consequence. she even kicked the dog when he tried to protect her and he hit right into a passing car which gave him a fright and he ran away. luckily she was not badly hurt as she fought back and it was a girl about her size and some bystanders intervened quickly enough. also we found the dog that night and he was uninjured, and so she decided to not make a statement because we knew it would lead to something worse. that's what you're looking at: if they think you snitched, they can just assault you and they still won't get done for it!

see the reason these people are 'well known to the gardai' is the cops don't or can't do anything other than get to know them. if all you had to do was take scumbags to civil courts they wouldn't be living amongst us and committing crimes so openly.

i would move at all costs, it's the only thing that you can do. there is no other solution i'm afraid. until then, get cameras and keep them handy, even if you can't film their house you might want them if something happens outside yours.

Graces7

sligoface wrote: »

unfortunately, in this country the scumbags have the ordinary people over a barrel as the guards cant/wont do anything unless they can, as they said to you, 'get him' for something serious (and can prove it). and even then the sentencing in this country is so light, it is barely a deterrent. as you know by now, the cops cannot protect you (they carry sticks ffs) and in my experience are really not interested in doing so either. you will be only heaping more misery on yourself by going the legal route. you don't want the 'serious crime' these cops are waiting for to 'get him' on to be something involving you/your household/dog, etc. you will still be living in fear as even if they are locked up it won't be for long enough.

somthing similar i dealt with: my girlfriend was assaulted walking her dog by some random junkie from the drug dealers who lived near us who was who was 'well known to the gardai' and they came and did nothing just let her walk away, as they can only arrest in the case of assault causing grievous harm or some bs - basically since she didnt have broken bones or get knocked unconscious there was no consequence. she even kicked the dog when he tried to protect her and he hit right into a passing car which gave him a fright and he ran away. luckily she was not badly hurt as she fought back and it was a girl about her size and some bystanders intervened quickly enough. also we found the dog that night and he was uninjured, and so she decided to not make a statement because we knew it would lead to something worse. that's what you're looking at: if they think you snitched, they can just assault you and they still won't get done for it!

see the reason these people are 'well known to the gardai' is the cops don't or can't do anything other than get to know them. if all you had to do was take scumbags to civil courts they wouldn't be living amongst us and committing crimes so openly.

i would move at all costs, it's the only thing that you can do. there is no other solution i'm afraid. until then, get cameras and keep them handy, even if you can't film their house you might want them if something happens outside yours.

This is so defeatist and as I and edellc have experienced, it is not the only way.

We get the service we insist on in this country; we should not have to insist but this is Ireland.

There was a thread here once re a man who was attacked with an axe for asking a neighbour to turn his music down. The Garda advised him to move. REALLY!

I did not realise when I came to Ireland what the Gardai were like. The first time I had real trouble with someone the Gurad said oh well, if you make a formal complaint it will mean court and just your word against his.
ie don't go there. and we tend,we who are law-abidng folk, to think that that is that.
It isn't; trouble left to rot leads to escalation of trouble. We did finally take that man to court after involving senior police; emerged he had a record. He cheeked the judge and got heavily fined for that too.

The Gardai have a complaints procedure and an Ombudsman. Use it, please and win over this rabble.

We too have had six moves in as many years and this time we are saying thus far and no further and it is working. So far... We have stood up to the situation and when the local gardai did not sort it, we went to the Chief Superintendant.

Your choice but I am weary of bullies and running scared and bad and greedy landlords. The word here is NO.

JustAThought

It sounds like a nightmare .
TBH you be no idea how these things totally can poison your life.
I own & have had such nightmare with my neighbours that if I didn't own I would just move; lovely area, lovely house etc.
And you can be sure that if the gsurds had thus problem with their mother or sister s house that it would be sorted.

I'm sorry but Edellc poster is not right re the noise; the law was changed a few years back & noise is no longer a gaurds thing. of course if they were stars they could come & cause trouble for them; but no doubt they re not doing this for you. If it was their neighbour of course, they would. I'm not too impressedwith them as youmight imagine.

Re the drugs. Are the still dealing? Still kept there? Can you advise the gaurds in writing; registered post ; get free legal aid advise before you commit in writing ( dint say drugs say suspect illegal activity it sthing) and ask for another raid; specifying that this was the location to check the 1st time but it had been overlooked/ advise not heeded etc.

Re the noise. The Other poster is correct ; unfortunately; this is the remit of the ( useless) local council to my knowledge; yes; the ones who close by 4pm & have no real powers etc. So you have to address it this way ; the EPA might help but my experience of their helpline has been fairly insipid & useless; unfortunately.

The suggestion to leap over the heads of the gaurds & go to the superintendent is worth considering . If they felt like it they could do something around disturbance of the peace/ breech of peace. One wonders why they havn't?

Maybe after the case, a follow up/link meeting with the gaurds to keep them onside and decide next steps. But my experience if the gaurds is that they don't exactly behave in an organised structured manner. I suppose they have to be seen to be objective.

Maybe it might be worth your while to visit another general level Garda station to ask their suggestions of what could be done ( don't give your stations area or details ) & they might make some suggestions without them feeling that they are being disloyal to their colleagues. Might give you some collateral going forward; or ideas about strategies that have not been used to bring to the superintendent & ask about/why.


Sounds like a total nightmare.

TBH I know you dont want to give in to scum but how many years have they already ruined your nights & days. There are scum who just want to fight & arnt happy unless they have confrontation & in their useless little knacker lives are " winning" or beating/using the system because that's the only success they'll ever have in their lives.

You are heading down the path of asbos/court orders/endless repeat visits to gaurds & courts who these scum obviously don't respect . I would be taking a long silent look at how much this neighbourhood & house is aaCTUALLY delivering to you in terms of quality of life & enjoyment ; not just what it would do if only they wern't there/were quiet/fixed etc

It's simple but have you considered going to the land registry office up in Dublin St the 4 courts? You can " just" walk in & ask to see the records if where you own. ( it's better probably to say you own!!) say you'd like to see the boundaries/ surrounding area; that you are curious sbout a planning permission /extension tbst is being discussed & wiuld lime to get an idea of how the boundaries lie/ how big tbeir garden is/ shape if boundaries so youd have an idea of how it might affect you. See if you can ask the girl in conversation of the full name of tbe people who own house next door ; you never know; they might actually be renting & then you might get them evicted. But if they own, you"re ¥******. Unfortunately.

Im very sorry for this nightmare You find yourself in.

reeta

Just want to clear up a few things: There is absolutely no why I am moving house and giving into these scumbags. I cant give more details on the family in case someone reading this thread cops on, but believe me there are only a couple of people in this house and if you met the mother you would think she was lovely and posh with her nice job in one of our major stores.One of the neighbours wanted to contact hr in the store to let them know what they have working for them (according to guards she is one of very few who has an asbo against her)... but contacting the store is not the way to go (just yet!!). Also one post says the guards can turn the music off, they cant, they can only ask them to turn the music down, which obviously is turned up when they leave.That is why the community guard admitted that our calls (as there are so many) are not being dealt with as they know it is a futile excercise. Having said all that your replies have really spurred me on to go over the community guards head. A civil court case would be a nightmare to deal with as we were also told by community guard it would take 8 - 9 months of "serious" harrassment before the superindendant would do anything, and we would have to have solid proof !!! I am getting furious sitting here typing this. Am going to contact the rest of the neighbours with a view to sending the superindendant a detailed letter informing him/her of what has been going in (all is documented) and telling them to do something about it !!!!!!!!!!!
As we said at the last meeting they would be quick enough to call to us if we took the law into our own hands.....

Monty Burnz

Of course it is illegal to advocate an illegal course of action on Boards.ie, but I do find myself wondering why the community does not make life very difficult for these people in return?

Graces7

reeta wrote: »

Just want to clear up a few things: There is absolutely no why I am moving house and giving into these scumbags. I cant give more details on the family in case someone reading this thread cops on, but believe me there are only a couple of people in this house and if you met the mother you would think she was lovely and posh with her nice job in one of our major stores.One of the neighbours wanted to contact hr in the store to let them know what they have working for them (according to guards she is one of very few who has an asbo against her)... but contacting the store is not the way to go (just yet!!). Also one post says the guards can turn the music off, they cant, they can only ask them to turn the music down, which obviously is turned up when they leave.That is why the community guard admitted that our calls (as there are so many) are not being dealt with as they know it is a futile excercise. Having said all that your replies have really spurred me on to go over the community guards head. A civil court case would be a nightmare to deal with as we were also told by community guard it would take 8 - 9 months of "serious" harrassment before the superindendant would do anything, and we would have to have solid proof !!! I am getting furious sitting here typing this. Am going to contact the rest of the neighbours with a view to sending the superindendant a detailed letter informing him/her of what has been going in (all is documented) and telling them to do something about it !!!!!!!!!!!
As we said at the last meeting they would be quick enough to call to us if we took the law into our own hands.....

Good! Our lasting impression is that the Guards take advantage of decent people like you and us by saying don't rock the boat.

Mention the complaints prcedure and Garda Ombusdman too.

They do have powers to stop noise - period.. edellc and I have both known this, myself very recently re the crowbanger here. The words were, " We will tell them to stop it".. and they did. They did the same last year when the locals had been shooting crows for 5 hours non stop in the next field. They hedged about that with the "nothing we can do.." but I insisted and it stopped.


That was after the letter to the Chief Superintendant of course.. in which I pleaded for help. re the old vandal up the lane.

reeta

Thanks Grace7., met with neighbours last night and am presently typing a very strong letter informing and quoting them of our rights, i.e. harrassment law section 10, a,b & c. We are also attaching a folder with all the calls we have made, dates, times etc. Thanks for the push !!!!

Graces7

reeta wrote: »

Thanks Grace7., met with neighbours last night and am presently typing a very strong letter informing and quoting them of our rights, i.e. harrassment law section 10, a,b & c. We are also attaching a folder with all the calls we have made, dates, times etc. Thanks for the push !!!!

YAY! You go girl!!

SInce I came to Ireland 11 years ago I have changed totally, Family rejoice, saying I have finally developed a backbone! Ireland does that to you.

I know the gardai have been to the old reprobate down the lane as he got made enough to pull down a small tree and set it across the road end of the laneway! He does that when he is mad.....lol... and has been told to come no nearer than that.

Sounds though like they know this family well aready .... Shame on them.

Merch

Some good info in here, replying so its in my history for when I need to find it again.

reeta

Update: Very strong letter with file containing log for last four years of anti social behaviour handed into superintendent this morning. Letter tells them in no uncertain terms to get this sorted !!