Croke Park Agreement

n97 mini

ardmacha wrote: »

Not true. In aggregate, pay has been already been reduced by more than was paid out in benchmarking.

Are you saying pay is now at pre-benchmarking levels?

ardmacha

Are you saying pay is now at pre-benchmarking levels?

No.

n97 mini

ardmacha wrote: »

No.

You have learned from your union leaders how to spin.

For the pendants, post #100 should have said

Benchmarking and other special pay awards played their part too, and the consequences are far harder to deal with as the CPA protects the awards given under them.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

jased10s wrote: »

U know what i think you have me there.

I cant for the life of me know where all these 100 of thousands PS workers are because all i see is inefficiency, I mean if they were all doing a 100% output efficently then i wouldent be waiting in A&E for god know how many hours and wait for me dole for months because of paper work, ( im working by the way ).

Threr are more examples but you get my drift.

Stop buying newspapers with red tops on them.

ardmacha

You have learned from your union leaders how to spin.

Why do you think I am in a union or have leaders?

As for your own spin, I suppose you use the Evening Herald for ideas.

Drumpot

ardmacha wrote: »

Banks represent the private sector as well as the Financial Regulator represents the public sector. I accept that people in the private sector may not feel any responsibility for the acts of Seanie Fitzpatrick, but neither are people in the public sector responsible for Patrick Neary.



I don't need to elaborate. Developers etc caused the problem and people laid off from private sector businesses have wrecked the public finances. This is simple fact.


true enough, they do.



I entirely agree that there should be accountability. The only comment I have ever made on boards about accountability was that there is sometimes a stated enthusiasm for "accountability" among some who don't wish to be accountable themselves.



Biased analysis is not helpful.



No, it can't. Most of the fund set aside to cater for PS pensions has been squandered on the private sector.



We can certainly raise taxes.



I don't the government should act in a capricious way. Firstly because it is a government and secondly as such actions play no role in moving public administration towards proper management.



I don't agree with this at all, but people keep on doing it. Will you tell them to stop?

Hold on a second. If you accept Seanie Fitz doesnt represent the entire private sector, why bring banks up in the same sentance when blaming the private sector ?

Developers caused the problem ? Politicians/councellors zoning land had nothing to do with it ? The public deficit is such because we are spending more then we are taking in, blaming any section of society doesnt change that . .

You think getting a payrise because of the time you are in a job is more appropriate then getting a payrise for competency/productivity ? Not just that, when a country is in financial crisis, its ok for people to get paid simply for getting old in a job ? Really ? This is logical to you ?

Then you just replied "biased analysis"is not helpful . . Do you actually read . . Do you actually understand what you write ? I am truley trying to hold back on this, but do you really think about what you write?

I just cant believe somebody can be so narrow minded and ill informed on a topic, yet speak with such conviction. .

Gumbo

Drumpot wrote: »

I just cant believe somebody can be so narrow minded and ill informed on a topic, yet speak with such conviction. .

I think that argument can be used for both sides of the camp (PS bashers and Private sector Bashers), especially considering some most of the posts on the subject on this board that to the casual observer just keep popping up again and again and again and again and.....well you get my drift.

creedp

Drumpot wrote: »

Hold on a second. If you accept Seanie Fitz doesnt represent the entire private sector, why bring banks up in the same sentance when blaming the private sector ?

Hold on a minute if you accept that the financial regulator/consultants'/top civil servants/etc dont represent the entire public sector (do you?) then why do you blame the public sector in its entirety for the current problems we find ourselves in.

You and many others are correct you can't blame one sector of society for the problems we find ourselves in ... but hey .. people do all the time and its OK so long as its the appropriate sector.

Drumpot

creedp wrote: »

Hold on a minute if you accept that the financial regulator/consultants'/top civil servants/etc dont represent the entire public sector (do you?) then why do you blame the public sector in its entirety for the current problems we find ourselves in.

You and many others are correct you can't blame one sector of society for the problems we find ourselves in ... but hey .. people do all the time and its OK so long as its the appropriate sector.

Quote me where I blamed the public sector ?

Drumpot

kceire wrote: »

I think that argument can be used for both sides of the camp (PS bashers and Private sector Bashers), especially considering some most of the posts on the subject on this board that to the casual observer just keep popping up again and again and again and again and.....well you get my drift.

The argument can be used by both sides, but I havent bashed or attacked anybody other then somebody trying to take the debate away from the topic (CPA) and make it into a shouting match about something completely insignificant (blamegame) . .

This thread should be about the validity/prudency of an agreement made in a time of financial crisis that is designed to protect and appease the financial interests of a certain section of society. The main defence seems to be something about whose fault it is or whats "fair" which is completely irrelevant . .

Some of the strategies and tactics used by people to defend the CPA are nothing short of shameful (just read my entire discussion with ardmaca - do people actually take this person seriously?). . Random, pointless rhetoric that has nothing to do with the CPA.

Gumbo

Drumpot wrote: »

Some of the strategies and tactics used by people to defend the CPA are nothing short of shameful (just read my entire discussion with ardmaca - do people actually take this person seriously?). . Random, pointless rhetoric that has nothing to do with the CPA.

And i have to point out that Some of the strategies and tactics used by people to belittle the CPA are nothing short of shameful

RobbieTheRobber

Drumpot wrote: »

The argument can be used by both sides, but I havent bashed or attacked anybody other then somebody trying to take the debate away from the topic (CPA) and make it into a shouting match about something completely insignificant (blamegame) . .

This thread should be about the validity/prudency of an agreement made in a time of financial crisis that is designed to protect and appease the financial interests of a certain section of society. The main defence seems to be something about whose fault it is or whats "fair" which is completely irrelevant . .

Some of the strategies and tactics used by people to defend the CPA are nothing short of shameful (just read my entire discussion with ardmaca - do people actually take this person seriously?). . Random, pointless rhetoric that has nothing to do with the CPA.

What is the point of talking about the cost of public services without putting that into the context of overall government spending?

A poster on this very thread in an attack has suggested cutting 100,000 staff :eek:, this poster clarfies by stating they dont know what they do so surely they can be cut.
The same poster later says they are working but having trouble claiming their dole. :eek:
How is it that those defending the CPA should react to threads like this going that way, and the same Random, pointless rhetoric being used to deride public service workers?

The validity of the CPA is provided for me by the government managing to avoid large scale industrial action which would further have damaged this country by implmenting some reductions in pay and with agreement from 300,000 workers to reduce numbers whilst at the same time increasing the productivity of those remaining.

More work with less people!

ardmacha

You think getting a payrise because of the time you are in a job is more appropriate then getting a payrise for competency/productivity ? Not just that, when a country is in financial crisis, its ok for people to get paid simply for getting old in a job ? Really ? This is logical to you ?

Incremental scales which reward experience are clearly a surrogate for measuring the improved value from that experience. The origin of this part of the discussion is Varadkar's contention that increments should be capriciously withheld regardless of how the person was performing. You can validly propose that this be changed to assess whether the person is any more useful or not. I think that long incremental scales without any checkpoints are not best practice and this should be changed. But as most people do their work well and gain value from experience most would still be paid more after a period in the job than at the beginning.

I just cant believe somebody can be so narrow minded and ill informed on a topic, yet speak with such conviction. .

I seem to be as well informed as many posters here. If you believe that I am ill informed then you are at liberty to inform me, as ressem did some posts back when he pointed out that local authority workers were not in the statistics.

ParkRunner

I dread to think what would happen if the CPA was abandoned by the government in favour of postponing increments and cutting pay.
I don't think any public servant has the appetite for industrial action again but with significantly less public/civil servants now than there was a few years ago, any loss of goodwill could really damage service provision.

doc_17

This thread has gone the way of many before it - lots of good points on both sides as usual.

However our time is probably running out. What we do, even the most extreme option, may not be enough.

eigrod

Drumpot wrote: »

The argument can be used by both sides, but I havent bashed or attacked anybody other then somebody trying to take the debate away from the topic (CPA) and make it into a shouting match about something completely insignificant (blamegame) . .

This thread should be about the validity/prudency of an agreement made in a time of financial crisis that is designed to protect and appease the financial interests of a certain section of society. The main defence seems to be something about whose fault it is or whats "fair" which is completely irrelevant . .

Some of the strategies and tactics used by people to defend the CPA are nothing short of shameful (just read my entire discussion with ardmaca - do people actually take this person seriously?). . Random, pointless rhetoric that has nothing to do with the CPA.

You won't be happy until every Public Servant is placed on the unemployment list.

You wanted pay cuts in the public service...you got them + a pension levy (in addition to the additional taxes and levies everyone else got). Did this satisfy you ? Nope !

Remember your points about the IMF ? (see below in case you can't). Well, they're here, they've been here some time now and, and so far, they're ok with what the CPA is delivering (at polar opposite to what you predicted).

If increments were stopped tomorrow and another pay cut introduced, you'll call for another cut...and another....and another.

You have one agenda, and one agenda only, and every post you make makes that blindingly obvious.

Drumpot wrote: »

I have many many friends in the public service and most of them understand that their job security is worth a huge bonus or double their wages in the private sector in the current climate. Be thankful for what you have, sometimes you dont know what you had until its gone and by god if the IMF came in, there would be alot of hands in heads wondering why they simply didnt listen when they had a chance to make a differance. . .

Drumpot wrote: »

I actually think on one level a bailout and IMF intervention will completely screw up the unions and make cuts easier to implement. Thats the last thing they want as they can publically beat up an unpopular government, but nobody will listen to them if they lambast an outside body, technically saving us from economic meltdown. The IMF dont need union members votes and have no axe to grind with anybody in society.

southsiderosie

MOD NOTE:

gerryo777 wrote: »

Why don't you and your unions stop holding the country to ransom?

gerryo777 wrote: »

Working in the PS is a form of social welfare. Jobs for people the private sector wouldn't hire.

You have already been warned that this kind of posting is unacceptable.

southsiderosie wrote: »

MOD NOTE:

That's enough. Don't post in this thread again.

And you were warned not to post in this thread again.

gerryo777 wrote: »

What's that got to do with this?

gerryo777 wrote: »

As we come out of recession the social welfare bill will drop, PS wages and pensions on the other hand will keep rising as they have done all the way through the same recession.

The clock is ticking, woodoo.
CPA will be consigned to history and not before time.

You and your unions should stop holding the country to ransom.

gerryo777 wrote: »

Is that when you and your unions will stop holding the country to ransom?

Milk it while you can, take early retirement or something....

gerryo777 wrote: »

Protected and enhanced every year by 'increments', pay rises to you and me.

And as I've pointed out to woodoo, the welfare bill will drop as we come out of recession whereas the PS bill will rise.

And yet, you not only continued to post, but often did so in the same belligerent, overly personal style that you were warned about. Take a week off, and when you come back, try to post with a modicum of civility towards other posters and respect for the norms of this forum.

femur61

I was reading today on the Reuters web site that the Baltic countries that went into recession in 2007 are coming out of it now by austerity. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/uk-baltics-crisis-idUKBRE85O0CF20120625

We do have austerity in some sections of society but because of the CPA we can't reduce pay in the PS. On RTE1 this the Pat kenny show some FGs call the CPA Choke Park. Isn't that really what it is. Some sections are really suffering to protect so called industrial peace. But if the unions had an ounce of patrism they could think off the country as a whole not just themselves.

(I feel another ban coming on)

Have to say there seems to be little freedom of speach on this board.

Tipp Man

femur61 wrote: »

I was reading today on the Reuters web site that the Baltic countries that went into recession in 2007 are coming out of it now by austerity. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/uk-baltics-crisis-idUKBRE85O0CF20120625

We do have austerity in some sections of society but because of the CPA we can't reduce pay in the PS. On RTE1 this the Pat kenny show some FGs call the CPA Choke Park. Isn't that really what it is. Some sections are really suffering to protect so called industrial peace. But if the unions had an ounce of patrism they could think off the country as a whole not just themselves.

(I feel another ban coming on)

Have to say there seems to be little freedom of speach on this board.

The unions have shown time and time again that they don't give a damn about the country, its people or the mess the public sector is in.

They care only about 1 thing and that is the highest wage (and conditions) possible

Celticfire

femur61 wrote: »

I was reading today on the Reuters web site that the Baltic countries that went into recession in 2007 are coming out of it now by austerity. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/06/25/uk-baltics-crisis-idUKBRE85O0CF20120625

We do have austerity in some sections of society but because of the CPA we can't reduce pay in the PS. On RTE1 this the Pat kenny show some FGs call the CPA Choke Park. Isn't that really what it is. Some sections are really suffering to protect so called industrial peace. But if the unions had an ounce of patrism they could think off the country as a whole not just themselves.

(I feel another ban coming on)

Have to say there seems to be little freedom of speach on this board.

What austerity measures have you suffered?

femur61

Celticfire wrote: »

What austerity measures have you suffered?

My out of work husband has just finished painting the house, told one of the kids he can't have a new bike because daddy has no work. I was promised anyone with a LTI card would get a medical card in the last election - another broken promise. If our kids were younger/older I would love to leave these shores. One of the reason I have a major problem with the CPA is pensions and wages were based on my husbands and others in his sector earnings but now he has no work, being self-employed we have nothing. I am educated to post grad level but because I have MS I can't work, he had a building company so that is self-explanatory. He is not educated to leaving cert so to retrain he would only have a few years till his retirement. As for a holiday this year home or abroad is not in the equation, and the kids are again upset. No new trainers, no new clothes. They are beginning to feel the pinch so that is why I have grievance with the CPA and my austerity.

n97 mini

Tipp Man wrote: »

The unions have shown time and time again that they don't give a damn about the country, its people or the mess the public sector is in.

They care only about 1 thing and that is the highest wage (and conditions) possible

I'm starting to conclude the same: that it's their own very higher salaries that they're interested most in. Get more more members in, more union dues, and more pay for the boys. I think Larkin and Connolly would have a lot to say.

Celticfire

femur61 wrote: »

My out of work husband has just finished painting the house, told one of the kids he can't have a new bike becuase daddy has no work. I was promised anyone with a LTI card would get a medical card in the last election - nother broken promise. If our kids were younger/older I would love to leave these shores. One of the reason I have a major problem with the CPA is pensions and wages were based on my husbands and others in his sector earnings but now he has no work, being self employed we have nothing. I am education to post grad level but because I have MS I can't work, he had a building company so that is self explanatory.

While I have empathy with your situation I don't like the way you started with a little heart tug story.

Your husbands business while terrible that it went under was not an action of austerity.
You said that some sections were pulling all the weight when it comes to austerity and I assumed that you were part of that group.

So please tell me what "Austerity" you have had.

doc_17

n97 mini wrote: »

Tipp Man wrote: »

The unions have shown time and time again that they don't give a damn about the country, its people or the mess the public sector is in.

They care only about 1 thing and that is the highest wage (and conditions) possible

I'm starting to conclude the same: that it's their own very higher salaries that they're interested most in. Get more more members in, more union dues, and more pay for the boys. I think Larkin and Connolly would have a lot to say.

Of course people care about their wages. Are you saying you don't?

Bit the thread has gone a bit off topic and lots of totally insane statements being made

Burt Lancaster

The more the golden circle can drive down ordinary public service pay, the more they can cut private sector pay, and protect the highly paid cronies in both sectors. I've lost a lot of ordinary public sector custom in the last few years due to their pay cuts and levies, they have definitely a lot less to spend, and that's bad for my business. In rural areas, they often make up the bulk of employed people. Not a popular opinon to hold these days, but I don't care, the truth's the truth.

southsiderosie

Celticfire wrote: »

What austerity measures have you suffered?

Celticfire wrote: »

While I have empathy with your situation I don't like the way you started with a little heart tug story.

Your husbands business while terrible that it went under was not an action of austerity.
You said that some sections were pulling all the weight when it comes to austerity and I assumed that you were part of that group.

So please tell me what "Austerity" you have had.

MOD NOTE:

This is an anonymous board. Posters do not have to divulge their occupation, income, party affiliation, etc. Of course, people are free to do so if they wish, but they should not be badgered to do so. Please stop with this line of questioning.

Celticfire

Ok... not my intention to badger.. I apologize

The gripe seems to be pay protection under Croke Park. Public service have already had two pay cuts. Totaling circa 15%.

Can someone tell me what austerity measures have been felt by the rest of the population that haven't also been felt by the public service?

Tipp Man

Celticfire wrote: »

Ok... not my intention to badger.. I apologize

The gripe seems to be pay protection under Croke Park. Public service have already had two pay cuts. Totaling circa 15%.

Can someone tell me what austerity measures have been felt by the rest of the population that haven't also been felt by the public service?

You want to mention austerity because it is one factor of the recession that affects you (I assume??) but when the women above says her husbands business failed then your not really interested. Yet they have lost a hell of a lot more than your (or any other PS) pay cut

There is much more to this recession than austerity you know - austerity (god i hate the word, we wouldn't know it if it bit us on the ass) is only part of it - a few small pay cuts aren't even proper austerity in my eyes

Burt Lancaster

Tipp Man wrote: »

You want to mention austerity because it is one factor of the recession that affects you (I assume??) but when the women above says her husbands business failed then your not really interested. Yet they have lost a hell of a lot more than your (or any other PS) pay cut

There is much more to this recession than austerity you know - austerity (god i hate the word, we wouldn't know it if it bit us on the ass) is only part of it - a few small pay cuts aren't even proper austerity in my eyes

I'd say you'd love to go back to the 50's so you could feel even more smugly superior to the less well off and less connected.

n97 mini

doc_17 wrote: »

Of course people care about their wages. Are you saying you don't?

I'm saying the union leaders motivations are primarily their own large pay packets, and not directly the welfare of their members.

noodler

Celticfire wrote: »

Ok... not my intention to badger.. I apologize

The gripe seems to be pay protection under Croke Park. Public service have already had two pay cuts. Totaling circa 15%.

Can someone tell me what austerity measures have been felt by the rest of the population that haven't also been felt by the public service?

You are phrasing that question terribly.

Job losses are the main economic effect around 200,000 extra unemployed since 2007.

Government spends less or raises taxes => Domestic Demand falls => Retail Suffer (amongst others).

Loss of access to credit due to not having secure employment would be another.

Having to work much longer hours for no extra pay.

Tipp Man

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

I'd say you'd love to go back to the 50's so you could feel even more smugly superior to the less well off and less connected.

Bit off topic aren't ya

Wasn't alive in the 50's s, have no connections to any "elite"

Burt Lancaster

Tipp Man wrote: »

Bit off topic aren't ya

Wasn't alive in the 50's s, have no connections to any "elite"

Actually, along with the other shills, you're fairly see through to be honest.

Tipp Man

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

Actually, along with the other shills, you're fairly see through to be honest.

Not sure what your problem is??

this aint AH so less of the personal jabs please

Celticfire

noodler wrote: »

You are phrasing that question terribly.

We do have austerity in some sections of society but because of the CPA we can't reduce pay in the PS.

Ok... I'll try again.... which sections of society are suffering austerity in a way that no public servant could also suffer?

Burt Lancaster

Tipp Man wrote: »

Not sure what your problem is??

this aint AH so less of the personal jabs please

I find honesty is the best policy, a rare concept in Ireland these days it seems.

Tipp Man

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

I find honesty is the best policy, a rare concept in Ireland these days it seems.

Well why don't you honestly put your opinion across then rather than making snide personal remarks when you really don't know me from Adam

noodler

Celticfire wrote: »

Ok... I'll try again.... which sections of society are suffering austerity in a way that no public servant could also suffer?

I just outlined three points.

Loss of employment.

Loss of access to credit due to job security.

More hours.

southsiderosie

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

I'd say you'd love to go back to the 50's so you could feel even more smugly superior to the less well off and less connected.

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

Actually, along with the other shills, you're fairly see through to be honest.

Tipp Man wrote: »

Bit off topic aren't ya

Wasn't alive in the 50's s, have no connections to any "elite"

Tipp Man wrote: »

Not sure what your problem is??

this aint AH so less of the personal jabs please

Burt Lancaster wrote: »

I find honesty is the best policy, a rare concept in Ireland these days it seems.

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well why don't you honestly put your opinion across then rather than making snide personal remarks when you really don't know me from Adam

MOD NOTE:

Jesus Christ, has everyone lost their minds today? CUT IT OUT. Any more OT squabbling is going to result in bans; there have been more than enough warnings on this thread.

sarumite

EF wrote: »

I dread to think what would happen if the CPA was abandoned by the government in favour of postponing increments and cutting pay.

I would imagine a third round of benchmarking would have happened, something that really should have happened already. the unions have already agreed to it in principle, the government agreed to it in principle, the public were pretty oblivious to it.

amen

I would imagine a third round of benchmarking would have happened

which if using the same criteria as the first two rounds should result in salary reductions.

Of course because the criteria, methodologies and results from the first two were never published we don't even know if the pay increases were justified.

amen

The gripe seems to be pay protection under Croke Park. Public service have already had two pay cuts. Totaling circa 15%.

What ? I'm fed up hearing this. Afaik your Gross Salary has not changed. You may have been charged a pension contribution (which is tax deductible) which if you are in the private sector you save for, you may have been charged some levies but your Gross Pensionable Salary has not decreased.

I bet you have you also got all your increments since the so called 15% pay cuts.

In the real world Pay cuts mean
Reduction in Gross Salary and thus reduction in Net Salary
Reduction in working hours or Increased Hours after salary reductions
Layoffs with the same work done by a smaller number of people
No automatic salary increments
No pay increases

tayto lover

femur61 wrote: »

My out of work husband has just finished painting the house, told one of the kids he can't have a new bike because daddy has no work. I was promised anyone with a LTI card would get a medical card in the last election - another broken promise. If our kids were younger/older I would love to leave these shores. One of the reason I have a major problem with the CPA is pensions and wages were based on my husbands and others in his sector earnings but now he has no work, being self-employed we have nothing. I am educated to post grad level but because I have MS I can't work, he had a building company so that is self-explanatory. He is not educated to leaving cert so to retrain he would only have a few years till his retirement. As for a holiday this year home or abroad is not in the equation, and the kids are again upset. No new trainers, no new clothes. They are beginning to feel the pinch so that is why I have grievance with the CPA and my austerity.

Your problem has nothing to do with the CPA at all. (I don't work in it either)
I know people who work in the PS and they cannot afford the things you can't as they are at the bottom rung and struggling after having pay cuts already. You really need to get your facts right. Any cuts in the PS should be for those earning over 50k in my opinion.

tayto lover

Tipp Man wrote: »

You want to mention austerity because it is one factor of the recession that affects you (I assume??) but when the women above says her husbands business failed then your not really interested. Yet they have lost a hell of a lot more than your (or any other PS) pay cut

There is much more to this recession than austerity you know - austerity (god i hate the word, we wouldn't know it if it bit us on the ass) is only part of it - a few small pay cuts aren't even proper austerity in my eyes

But you didn't like it when posters mentioned how well the farmers were doing. I wonder how you would like it if someone suggested re-directing some of their grants to other less well off sectors of society.

Vizzy

amen wrote: »

What ? I'm fed up hearing this. Afaik your Gross Salary has not changed. You may have been charged a pension contribution (which is tax deductible) which if you are in the private sector you save for, you may have been charged some levies but your Gross Pensionable Salary has not decreased.

I bet you have you also got all your increments since the so called 15% pay cuts.

In the real world Pay cuts mean

Reduction in Gross Salary and thus reduction in Net Salary
I'm Public service and this has affected me
Reduction in working hours or Increased Hours after salary reductions
This has also affected me
Layoffs with the same work done by a smaller number of people
This has affected me
No automatic salary increments
Haven't got an increment since 2007
No pay increases
Yup !

.

stoneill

Jasus lads - I thought this was about the CPA.

Will yiz all take a break from Public Joe did this Private Jane did that.
We are all just ordinary people trying to make a living.

What happened to this country is what has always happened throughout history. The rich got richer and when shít got bad, the ordinary people pay for it. Simple as that.

Now - can you please get back to talking about the CPA, what has it achieved and is it on target.

eigrod

amen wrote: »

What ? I'm fed up hearing this. Afaik your Gross Salary has not changed.

You're wrong

tayto lover

eigrod wrote: »

You're wrong

That's even worse than I thought. The lower paid workers should not have had those cuts in my opinion.

Degsy

femur61 wrote: »

My out of work husband has just finished painting the house, told one of the kids he can't have a new bike because daddy has no work. I was promised anyone with a LTI card would get a medical card in the last election - another broken promise. If our kids were younger/older I would love to leave these shores. One of the reason I have a major problem with the CPA is pensions and wages were based on my husbands and others in his sector earnings but now he has no work, being self-employed we have nothing. I am educated to post grad level but because I have MS I can't work, he had a building company so that is self-explanatory. He is not educated to leaving cert so to retrain he would only have a few years till his retirement. As for a holiday this year home or abroad is not in the equation, and the kids are again upset. No new trainers, no new clothes. They are beginning to feel the pinch so that is why I have grievance with the CPA and my austerity.

Sounds to me you're just bitter because your easygoing lifestyle of people painting your house new bikes for the kids,trainers and new clothes on demand has come to an end.

And your hubby is/was a builder?

I recall being laughed at when i asked a builder to have a look at a tiling job in my kitchen..he said "i only do jobs for 50k and upwards" before hanging up.

Proper bigshots they were..creaming the money in.


Sounds like you didnt go without when times were good and never thought of putting abit by in case they werent always so...you havnt actually experienced austerity...you've taken a hit in what sounds like an extravagant lifestyle.

Yet you wish people who your husband would have probably laughed at before would take a paycut because of your sense of entitlement and bitterness.

As for teh medical card,not exactly a fault of the CPA now is it..more of the politicians who run the country,the politicians who ran the place into the ground at the behest of certain "professions".

ardmacha

which if using the same criteria as the first two rounds should result in salary reductions.

Some reductions, some increases.

Of course because the criteria, methodologies and results from the first two were never published we don't even know if the pay increases were justified.

If FG had any sense they would have published this to provide proper data for the rantings debate.