Mens Rights Thread

Piliger

The Corinthian wrote: »

I agree, but the weight of the 'academic' label is important to this end. Many of the most ridiculous Feminist demands are often 'backed up' by academic research - that this research is questionable at best, if not blatantly flawed is often overshadowed by the respectability and authority that a few degrees attached to the author's name will often engender.

So while I agree with your assessment, I do also feel that a pursuit of this 'academic' status would be strategically important.

I agree - only saying that it is not a prerequisite to moving things forward

The Corinthian

Piliger wrote: »

I agree - only saying that it is not a prerequisite to moving things forward

Actually I would have thought moving forward would be necessary to make it an academic pursuit - Women's studies were hardly academically accepted until long after Feminism had become effectively mainstream.

Staedtler

Okay, I've read this thread through to its entirety.

I'm tempted to say, "Bitches be bitches", but, that would just be a bit too obviously black.(which I'm not, of course)

Cnts come to mind, but, not in the nice way.

Look, for god's sake(gods' sake for all the wannabe journalists) there is, and will always be, a gender war.

Right now, women's rights groups ply their trade lobbying NGO's, government agencies and anyone who will further their cause - which is yet undefined - equality being the most recent incarnation.

Prostitution is a woman's first response to any personal calamity.

Children are assets, in the eyes and mind of a 21st Century woman.

Next time you're in bed with a woman, remember, fck her really, really hard - that will teach her!

Daveysil15

Staedtler wrote: »

Okay, I've read this thread through to its entirety.

I'm tempted to say, "Bitches be bitches", but, that would just be a bit too obviously black.(which I'm not, of course)

Cnts come to mind, but, not in the nice way.

Look, for god's sake(gods' sake for all the wannabe journalists) there is, and will always be, a gender war.

Right now, women's rights groups ply their trade lobbying NGO's, government agencies and anyone who will further their cause - which is yet undefined - equality being the most recent incarnation.

Prostitution is a woman's first response to any personal calamity.

Children are assets, in the eyes and mind of a 21st Century woman.

Next time you're in bed with a woman, remember, fck her really, really hard - that will teach her!

Wow... don't hold back.

iptba

Daveysil15 wrote: »

Wow... don't hold back.

Poster has received infraction so best not to comment on it I think. That's what I'm going to try to do anyway.

James Jones

I think the article HERE gives a good perspective on equality.

iptba

http://www.amazon.com/Male-Strike-Societys-War-Men/dp/1594036756/

Men on Strike: Why Men Are Boycotting Marriage, Fatherhood, and the American Dream - and Why It Matters [Hardcover]

Helen Smith (Author)

Book Description

Publication Date: June 18, 2013

American society has become anti-male. Men are sensing the backlash and are consciously and unconsciously going on strike. They are dropping out of college, leaving the workforce, and avoiding marriage and fatherhood at alarming rates. Other books have addressed this problem in terms of its impact on women; Male Strike looks at the topic from the viewpoint of men: Why should they participate in a system that seems to be increasingly stacked against them? As the interviews and surveys in this book demonstrate, men aren't dropping out because they're immature man-children. They are acting rationally in response to the lack of incentives society offers them to be responsible fathers, husbands, and providers. Male Strike describes this phenomenon and offers solutions and action-oriented advice to men, to society, and to the women who love them.

Portrait of a Modern Feminist: Helen Smith

http://www.iwf.org/modern-feminist/2789205/Portrait-of-a-Modern-Feminist:-Helen-Smith

Not typical feminist comments in the interview

iptba

I just came across the following event in the UK:

SECOND NATIONAL CONFERENCE FOR MEN & BOYS 2012

Haven't had a chance to look at it

Main Index for Second National Conference for Men & Boys
http://brightonmanplan.wordpress.com/conference-2012/

Thursday 1st November 2012
Event: Men’s Rights Networking Event and Discussion
Theme: How Do We Put Men’s Issues On The Political Agenda?
http://brightonmanplan.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/conference-fringe-event-mens-rights-event/

Friday 2nd November 2012
EVENT: SECOND NATIONAL CONFERENCE FOR MEN AND BOYS
http://brightonmanplan.wordpress.com/2012/09/28/programme-for-second-national-conference-for-men-and-boys/

Saturday 3rd November 2012
Event: The Big Man Gathering
http://brightonmanplan.wordpress.com/2012/09/11/big-man-gathering-2012-programme/

Piliger

iptba wrote: »

I just came across the following event in the UK:

A fascinating organisation and one that we would benefit from enormously in this country imho.

banquo

I don't know why we don't set up our own lobbying group. There are some serious policy changes needed, especially in the Department of Social Protection.

The Corinthian

banquo wrote: »

I don't know why we don't set up our own lobbying group.

Because everyone here, from what I can see, is waiting for someone else to actually do it for them.

(I include myself in that criticism, although in fairness, I don't actually live in Ireland, so it really shouldn't be up to me)

Zulu

banquo wrote: »

I don't know why we don't set up our own lobbying group.

Personally, I'm not convinced that a male lobbying group is the right direction to take. Why? ...well, for all the same reasons I object to feminism, frankly.

So there's my problem, what's my solution? I don't know... a real, proper, egalitarian lobbying group!?

Piliger

Zulu wrote: »

Personally, I'm not convinced that a male lobbying group is the right direction to take. Why? ...well, for all the same reasons I object to feminism, frankly.

So there's my problem, what's my solution? I don't know... a real, proper, egalitarian lobbying group!?

I don't believe that argument makes sense. You don't agree with feminism because they are a lobbying group ? or because of what they lobby for ?

If you object to it for just being a lobbying group .. does that mean you object to ALL lobbying groups ? those pushing for Gay rights ? Workers rights ? PAYE rights ? Anti pollution ? ...........

No. We do need some kind of group in Ireland. However I have to say that I don't think we are ready for it yet. We do not have a sufficient base for it as yet and need to spread the discussion of the fundamentals more before we jump to that stage.

Despite the number of male readers who visit and post to tGC every day, few bother their arses dropping in here to post. There is still an apathy, a lack of awareness that men are suffering any kind of prejudice AND that there is anything we can do about it. I believe there is a general male social guilt still prevalent, whereby men have been programmed to accept that only women need to be protected. Men are men. Men are men and don't need anyone to help us. This needs to be punctured and challenged.

We have a lot more work to do to raise awareness and the level of disscussion imho.

Zulu

Piliger wrote: »

I don't believe that argument makes sense. You don't agree with feminism because they are a lobbying group ? or because of what they lobby for ?

Both I guess. I think they (and any similar male group) are elitist, and are a cause to the gender discrimination they apparently strive to fight.
I don't think the solution to gender inequality lies in the exclusive representation of a single sex.

Piliger

Zulu wrote: »

Both I guess. I think they (and any similar male group) are elitist, and are a cause to the gender discrimination they apparently strive to fight.
I don't think the solution to gender inequality lies in the exclusive representation of a single sex.

Ok. So who is going to take any action to correct the inequality ?

Zulu

Piliger wrote: »

Ok. So who is going to take any action to correct the inequality ?

A true egalitarian group?

Look, I'm not saying I have a solution. What I do have is experience of what modern feminism does appallingly wrong.

I fail to see how an equivalent male movement would not end up, eventually, falling foul of everything feminism has fallen foul of.

The Corinthian

Zulu wrote: »

Both I guess. I think they (and any similar male group) are elitist, and are a cause to the gender discrimination they apparently strive to fight.
I don't think the solution to gender inequality lies in the exclusive representation of a single sex.

I agree, but that's what we have at present. In a prefect World there would be no need for Mascalism or Feminism, but presently we have only the latter representing only one gender, and so the former is regrettably required to represent the other gender.

Why? because I don't think there is sufficient impetus on Feminism to change, presuming it even can, and so the counterbalance of Mascalism is necessary to create this impetus - self-interest still rules, I'm afraid.

Hopefully, we'll be able to do away with all these gender-biased ideologies someday, in favour of a true movement for equality, but we're not there yet.

Zulu

The Corinthian wrote: »

Hopefully, we'll be able to do away with all these gender-biased ideologies someday, in favour of a true movement for equality, but we're not there yet.

Well, you are probably right. Perhaps we aren't there yet, but, I can't but help think that that is the only way forward.

That's essentially my problem with a Mascalism movement - which is not to be confused with me not believing in mens rights, or that there is a real need to protect mens rights.

The Corinthian

Zulu wrote: »

Well, you are probably right. Perhaps we aren't there yet, but, I can't but help think that that is the only way forward.

Ultimately, I agree, but I don't think we're going to get to that stage until there is pressure on the other side of the scales, as it were.

eviltwin

I suppose your best way forward is to focus on one thing first and take it from there.

What is the biggest issue for men today? From most of the conversations I have with men its the issue of guardianship for unmarried dads, I think most women would support that cause, we have sons, brothers etc.

I think with any rights issue its only really taken off when others have taken up the cause, with men's rights if its done properly ie in such a way that women can see how it can benefit society as a whole, it stands a much better chance of getting traction

I think having it open is the best way forward, allow women to participate, learn from the mistakes of the feminist movement, find allies in groups representing women that may have valuable experience to learn from. That way women don't feel threatened and it has a much more collective feeling that its for the benefit of everyone.

iptba

The thing is that there are already separated and unmarried groups for fathers. People can get involved in them if they want.

Piliger

Zulu wrote: »

A true egalitarian group?

Look, I'm not saying I have a solution. What I do have is experience of what modern feminism does appallingly wrong.

I fail to see how an equivalent male movement would not end up, eventually, falling foul of everything feminism has fallen foul of.

Look. In an ideal world I agree. It would be nice if we could have joint groups to work against inequality. Balanced groups.

But this is not the ideal world. NO ONE would have helped women get equality or the vote, if it were not for women standing up and getting together. NO ONE in the USA would have given the black man equality and the vote unless black people got together and demanded it. NO ONE would have given gay people equal rights and fought against prejudice had they not marched and demanded it.

The effort to promote men's right and to fight against the inequalities an prejudices discussed here can never start unless some men get together and push for it. That is life.

That doesn't mean that men have to have a permanent, battle orientated army as a part of the furniture, the way Feminism has over the last 100 years. But someone somewhere has to get the ball rolling ... and that means 'some' men have to start the ball.

Piliger

iptba wrote: »

The thing is that there are already separated and unmarried groups for fathers. People can get involved in them if they want.

One issue groups never succeed in this kind of wider effort. It needs a fresh, broader based group, that those single issue groups can then support. Imho.

Piliger

eviltwin wrote: »

I think having it open is the best way forward, allow women to participate, learn from the mistakes of the feminist movement, find allies in groups representing women that may have valuable experience to learn from. That way women don't feel threatened and it has a much more collective feeling that its for the benefit of everyone.

Mistakes ? What mistakes ? Feminism has been incredibly successful. Why do things any differently ?
Collegiality is all well and good, in principle, but like discussions here ... groups of women will jump in and try to derail and dilute the effort. Allies ? yes. Coordinate ? yes.

iptba

Piliger wrote: »

One issue groups never succeed in this kind of wider effort. It needs a fresh, broader based group, that those single issue groups can then support. Imho.

I wasn't advocating only single issue groups, just pointing out that there were already groups for fathers people could get involved with.

Personally, I think issues are often interconnected. For example, a problem I think in the rights of fathers sphere is that very often nothing happens to a mother if she disobeys a ruling e.g. with regard to the father having time with the children. In my mind, this is to do with society's different approaches when men and women break rules or laws - I don't think fathers who did the same thing would get the same "kid glove" treatment. Not sure if it's the best example, but I think lots of issues are interwoven.

sha the man

i am not formally involved or anything. i am simply on a marriage and sex strike/ shunning all contact with society. not that i have an over abundance of female attention but what does come up i simply ignore it now. i feel i have no choice as the biased western media portray men as something akin to nazies. men be warned you will be destroyed in the family courts and if you have a child check the dna of said child and or sell up and leave the country. i personally know of several lads who have been seriously f..ked over to the extent where a few of them killed themselves because of court judgements. the judge can order you to give your house over to the women you will be paying a mortgage on a house for your ex wife/girlfriend stays there with your kids. the ex is getting bangged by another guy your kids are in the house listening to another man who is not their father banging their mother, what kind of damage is that going to do to the kids. anyways that my 50 cents worth

jackofalltrades

Piliger wrote: »

Mistakes ? What mistakes ? Feminism has been incredibly successful. Why do things any differently ?
Collegiality is all well and good, in principle, but like discussions here ... groups of women will jump in and try to derail and dilute the effort. Allies ? yes. Coordinate ? yes.

Depressingly enough I could see men disrupting any potential movement as well, if the "Feminists destroy posters advocating human rights for men" thread is anything to go by. That and there are women as it is campaigning and writing articles in favour of increased men's rights, it would seem counter productive to exclude them.

I think the first thing that needs to be done is to stop Men shooting themselves in the foot. They need to learn that women aren't weak, helpless creatures. That chivalry equals sexism and to wake up to the fact that are rights are being stolen from us, in front of our face, and with our permission.

tom_thumb

Piliger wrote: »

Look. In an ideal world I agree. It would be nice if we could have joint groups to work against inequality. Balanced groups.

But this is not the ideal world. NO ONE would have helped women get equality or the vote, if it were not for women standing up and getting together. NO ONE in the USA would have given the black man equality and the vote unless black people got together and demanded it. NO ONE would have given gay people equal rights and fought against prejudice had they not marched and demanded it.

The effort to promote men's right and to fight against the inequalities an prejudices discussed here can never start unless some men get together and push for it. That is life.

That doesn't mean that men have to have a permanent, battle orientated army as a part of the furniture, the way Feminism has over the last 100 years. But someone somewhere has to get the ball rolling ... and that means 'some' men have to start the ball.

im sure a group could be quickly put together but how would it grow , without media exposure its difficult to increase numbers to any significant degree and since the media is for the most part on the same page as the feminist movement , finding someone who isnt john watters or kevin myers to provide us with a megaphone could be a real challenge

the recieved wisdom out there is that men have nothing to complain about and that in any given scenario or situation involving a dispute between men and women , the woman is the one being marginalised and exploited

the pendelum will not swing back to the centre for some time yet

iptba

tom_thumb wrote: »

im sure a group could be quickly put together but how would it grow , without media exposure its difficult to increase numbers to any significant degree and since the media is for the most part on the same page as the feminist movement , finding someone who isnt john watters or kevin myers to provide us with a megaphone could be a real challenge

Perhaps, but with the internet and social media these days groups don't have to depend as much on the mainstream media to grow.

tom_thumb

iptba wrote: »

Perhaps, but with the internet and social media these days groups don't have to depend as much on the mainstream media to grow.

while most internet forums are not as PC liberal as boards.ie , the majority of them are to the left of the mainstream media which is itself very liberal