Mens Rights Thread

diveout

iptba wrote: »

I've seen quite a few articles about this issue in the US.



continues at: http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/384780/mothers-due-process-caroline-kitchens

There was something like this in 2007 at Brown. And they wonder why less men are going to college.

iptba

August 11 article

The Men's Rights Movement and the Women Who Love It
Some of movement's fiercest activists aren't men.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/08/mens-rights-movement-women-who-love-it

walshb

Henry9 wrote: »

If anything they're dumber, what kind of fool would lap up that kind of patronising nonsense?
And from a woman who's famous for what? Why is she given a platform?
Oh that's right, she's MARRIED to someone in a position of authority, big achievement there.

It's right up there with her sad face selfie #bringbackourgirls.

Er love, you're married to the fcuking President of the US, why not go and harangue him to do something rather than posting narcissistic nonsense because you want to join in.

She's actually a very educated and smart lady. Very inspirational for a lot of men and women. If the truth be known, a lot of the first ladies are the real power/brains in the oval office. Read about her if you really think all she is is a married woman.

Henry9

walshb wrote: »

She's actually a very educated and smart lady.

So what if she's 'smart and educated'? A lot of people are. She has a platform on the basis of being married to a particular man.

walshb wrote: »

Very inspirational for a lot of men and women.

Big deal. Probably the same people for whom her husband was inspirational. Look where that got them.

walshb wrote: »

If the truth be known, a lot of the first ladies are the real power/brains in the oval office.

Yeah right.

iptba

Received from the Canadian Association for Equality earlier:

Alert: CAFE Spokesperson Adam McPhee will be on The Scott Thompson Show on AM900 CHML News/Talk today at 1:05PM ET discussing the following story

A 1940's female Hamilton, Ontario killer who dismembered her husband and murdered her infant son will get a merchandise line featuring slogans like "Love you to pieces" and "The fastest way to a man's heart is through his torso."

Imagine a clothing line mocking the violence of Canada's notorious killer Paul Bernardo who murdered women?

The woman who requested the design of the merchandise is refusing to back down, even after this shocking development was exposed in the media in articles based on interviews with CAFE spokesperson Adam McPhee.

Read the article: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/08/21/mens-group-decries-disgusting-evelyn-dick-merchandise-line-based-on-infamous-hamilton-killer/

More on the story
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/murderer-evelyn-dick-inspires-hamilton-merchandise-line-1.2739951?cmp=rss

Don't miss designer Chris Farias's defending his clothing line:
"This line doesn't condone what she did ... but one thing our city is great at is laughing at itself and taking pride in our collective histories."

Is the brutal murder of a husband and infant son something of which to be proud?

Support CAFE's efforts to raise the alarm on the double standard with respect to violence against men and to work to provide support to those marginalized victims of abuse in our society.

Join or renew your membership or make a one-time or monthly contribution today: http://equalitycanada.com/support-us/


- Canadian Association for Equality

iptba

(April 23, 2014)

I’m An Anti-Sexist, Liberal Doctoral Student, Wife, And Mother Who Supports The Men’s Rights Movement Over Feminism, Here’s Why
By Janet Bloomfield

http://thoughtcatalog.com/janet-bloomfield/2014/04/im-an-anti-sexist-liberal-doctoral-student-wife-and-mother-who-supports-the-mens-rights-movement-over-feminism-heres-why/

iptba

http://www.indianagazette.com/news/police-courts/woman-guilty-of-downloading-child-porn,20450234/

(August 20)

Woman guilty of downloading child porn

A Clymer woman faces a maximum of nine years in prison and could face sanctions under Megan’s Law after being convicted of charges related to child pornography Tuesday in Indiana County Court.

[..]

Police and prosecutors said Woods had tried to frame her husband, Matthew Woods, about one year ago when she told investigators that he had downloaded images of child pornography to the computer in their home.

Maguined

iptba wrote: »

http://www.indianagazette.com/news/police-courts/woman-guilty-of-downloading-child-porn,20450234/

(August 20)

While I am not defending the actions I don't really see this as a mens rights issue. Yes the motivation was disgusting but the rights have been upheld. A false claim was made and the courts deal with it fairly based on the evidence so the mans rights were not violated

iptba

Maguined wrote: »

While I am not defending the actions I don't really see this as a mens rights issue. Yes the motivation was disgusting but the rights have been upheld. A false claim was made and the courts deal with it fairly based on the evidence so the mans rights were not violated

I wasn't sure where to post it. But false claims against men of various forms can be considered a men's rights issues, I think, esp. when other groups like to play down the issue, lobby to change the rules with regard to dealing with such claims so they might be more difficult to defend against, are unhappy with suggestions that defendants should not be anonymous before conviction, etc.

Seriously?

Maguined wrote: »

While I am not defending the actions I don't really see this as a mens rights issue.

I think while men are assumed guilty until proven innocent stories like this one are very much a mens right issue.

Maguined

Seriously? wrote: »

I think while men are assumed guilty until proven innocent stories like this one are very much a mens right issue.

How was he assumed guilty until proven innocent? A formal statement was given to the police so they were obliged to investigate the case and bring charges. They found porn on the laptop so there was going to be a court case over it and the based on the evidence provided the found the man innocent of the crime and the woman has been found guilty.

In what way could this have been handled differently by the authorities?

Seriously?

Maguined wrote: »

How was he assumed guilty until proven innocent?

The reason this is news is because he wasn't automatically found guilty.

Are you seriously going to attempt to argue that when rape or child-abuse are levelled at a man by a female that the default position isn't that they are guilty. :rolleyes:

B0jangles

Seriously? wrote: »

The reason this is news is because he wasn't automatically found guilty.

Are you seriously going to attempt to argue that when rape or child-abuse are levelled at a man by a female that the default position isn't that they are guilty. :rolleyes:

FYI Ireland has one of the lowest conviction rates for rape in the developed world: http://humanrightsinireland.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/rape-and-justice-in-ireland/

Seriously?

B0jangles wrote: »

FYI Ireland has one of the lowest conviction rates for rape in the developed world: http://humanrightsinireland.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/rape-and-justice-in-ireland/

You think

For cases prosecuted on indictment in the Central Criminal Court the conviction rates for rape for the same years were 82, 85 and 81% respectively, for attempted rape it stood at 100% each year

Is low :rolleyes:

B0jangles

Seriously? wrote: »

You think


Is low :rolleyes:

The same piece observes that 95% of reported cases do not get to the prosecution stage. You may well think that that is because 95% are false, others might say it is because the police are unwilling to proceed with cases that are almost completely irrefutable.

Maguined

Seriously? wrote: »

The reason this is news is because he wasn't automatically found guilty.

Are you seriously going to attempt to argue that when rape or child-abuse are levelled at a man by a female that the default position isn't that they are guilty. :rolleyes:

No sorry I was not trying to make that claim I thought that was the point you were trying to make by saying this is a mens rights issue but that is my fault for reading your previous post incorrectly.

Wibbs

B0jangles wrote: »

You may well think that that is because 95% are false, others might say it is because the police are unwilling to proceed with cases that are almost completely irrefutable.

Both positions would be conjecture.

iptba

National Public Radio (NPR) article:

For Men's Rights Groups, Feminism Has Come At The Expense Of Men

by Joel Rose

September 02, 2014 4:08 PM ET

http://www.npr.org/2014/09/02/343970601/men-s-rights-movement

Could have been better, but could have been worse too.

py2006

She made it all up...


Brazilian student charged with making false claims to gardai that she was gang-raped in a Dublin laneway

http://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/brazilian-student-charged-making-false-4172517

Bafucin

Incidentally most rapists make their story up too.

Lemming

Bafucin wrote: »

Incidentally most rapists make their story up too.

Any given criminal will make their story up too to avoid punishment. What's your point exactly?

Bafucin

Lemming wrote: »

Any given criminal will make their story up too to avoid punishment. What's your point exactly?

Exactly that.

Lemming

Bafucin wrote: »

Exactly that.

Seriously, what is your point? You make a comment to the effect of "yeah, but rapists" after someone has posted an article about a Brazilian girl living in Ireland who recently made up a rape allegation. Do you think it'll absolve her of what she's done?

Bafucin

Lemming wrote: »

Seriously, what is your point? You make a comment to the effect of "yeah, but rapists" after someone has posted an article about a Brazilian girl living in Ireland who recently made up a rape allegation. Do you think it'll absolve her of what she's done?

Where did you get I think she should be absolved from? ARE YOU NUTS?


Seriously that is my point.

Rapists, pseudo victims are all sociopaths who are out to manipulate the system and society for all it is worth.

The majority of rape victims are not liars. The majority of child victims are not liars. The majority of male rape victims and men who are victims or violence are not liars.

The perpetrators of violence are. Most sociopaths commit the stalking the murdering and conning. Occasionally they lie and try to turn the tables around but unusually not.

Any given criminal will make their story up too to avoid punishment.

Exactly. This Brazilian girl will go through life screwing over every man and woman around her mark my words.

Women accusing men of rape are exceptions to the rule. Similarly men who rape women are exceptions to the rule generally. But most allegations are not false nor made with vindictiveness.

You miss represent statistics. Wrong identification of crimes occurs in 25 % of crimes. WRONG IDENTIFICATION.....by mistake....this 25 % occurs in rape too. . Yes, she is accusing somebody, something happened, but it was not him, but somebody else. - So what should police do after investigation? They only can let him go, because he is innocent.But a crime still occurred.

Men’s rights activists often insist that men are victimized by sex crimes and abuse just as much as women are, if not more. This assertion is meant to support their contention that the courts and laws outrageously favor women.

The best studies, where the rape allegations have been studied in detail, suggest a rate of false reports of somewhere between 2% and 10%. The most comprehensive study, conducted by the British Home Office in 2005, found a rate of 2.5% for false accusations of rape. The best U.S. investigation, the 2008 “Making a Difference” study, found a 6.8% rate.


This Brazilian woman was a sociopathic bitch. Should she walk away free **** NO!.

But the rest of this thread is just poison.

Seriously?

Bafucin wrote: »

Women accusing men of rape are exceptions to the rule. Similarly men who rape women are exceptions to the rule generally.

Interesting use of words, rapists are only generally the exception to the rule when it comes to men. Perhaps you'd care to explainly to us why men are only generally unlikely to commit rape?

Sounds positively Orwellian, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".

On a related note (rape stats), the beeb has an interesting article on the topic and how they are misleading (and misused by a prominent feminist)

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

py2006

Bafucin wrote: »

But the rest of this thread is just poison.

py2006

Bafucin wrote: »

pseudo victims are all sociopaths who are out to manipulate the system and society for all it is worth.

I don't agree with this. Not all the women who have lied about rape are sociopaths. Some are just out for revenge or vengeance. Either from being dumped by an boyfriend or regretting a one night stand.

fits

Anyone who reports a rape due to regretting a one night stand is surely a sociopath!!! I would have thought that's a classic example of being a sociopath

ancapailldorcha

fits wrote: »

Anyone who reports a rape due to regretting a one night stand is surely a sociopath!!! I would have thought that's a classic example of being a sociopath

I'm no expert but I don't think there's a way to enforce a penalty on false accusations without deterring genuine victims from coming forward. I am aware that lack of evidence does not constitute a false allegation.

py2006

fits wrote: »

Anyone who reports a rape due to regretting a one night stand is surely a sociopath!!! I would have thought that's a classic example of being a sociopath

Perhaps. Although my understanding of a sociopath is somebody who consistently lies and leads a deluded lifestyle. An act of revenge or vengeance may be impulsive or I think in some cases they don't realise the severity of their claims.

Wibbs

Seriously? wrote: »

Interesting use of words, rapists are only generally the exception to the rule when it comes to men. Perhaps you'd care to explainly to us why men are only generally unlikely to commit rape?

Yea that was an interesting sentence alright.

This was another one

Bafucin wrote:

But the rest of this thread is just poison.

Sees a couple of posts they don't agree with/that wind them up, paints entire thread as poison. Genius.

This assertion is meant to support their contention that the courts and laws outrageously favor women.

That contention is demonstrably backed up by the stats. To suggest otherwise is to believe that in the US African Americans get the same deal in law as European Americans. Women are favoured in family law cases and receive far less harsh sentencing in other crimes from white collar all the way to murder. They're also less likely to see prison in the first place.

However I would agree with this;

The best studies, where the rape allegations have been studied in detail, suggest a rate of false reports of somewhere between 2% and 10%. The most comprehensive study, conducted by the British Home Office in 2005, found a rate of 2.5% for false accusations of rape. The best U.S. investigation, the 2008 “Making a Difference” study, found a 6.8% rate.

2-10% I would believe, no way would I buy 40 odd %.

Seriously? wrote:

On a related note (rape stats), the beeb has an interesting article on the topic and how they are misleading (and misused by a prominent feminist)

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

Look when you see the name Naomi Wolf attached to anything approach with caution and a large heap of "ah right, here we go again". How she is still getting airtime is beyond me. Seriously, have a read of her stuff. You will find examples of stuff most would agree with, but it's buried under tectonic plates of ivory tower, ivy league women's studies nonsense.

iptba

Seriously? wrote: »

On a related note (rape stats), the beeb has an interesting article on the topic and how they are misleading (and misused by a prominent feminist)

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-19592372

I don't think the sexual assault issue like lots of other issues should be left to feminists. Injustices can occur otherwise. We have seen with issues like domestic violence how unfair structures can be to men when left to feminists to organise training for professionals, raise awareness of issues in the media, provide support for victims, etc.

fits

iptba wrote: »

I don't think the sexual assault issue like lots of other issues should be left to feminists. Injustices can occur otherwise. We have seen with issues like domestic violence how unfair structures can be to men when left to feminists to organise training for professionals, raise awareness of issues in the media, provide support for victims, etc.

What? Aren't most people these days feminists, unless they're from the dark ages. Are you saying Sexual assault issues should not be left to people who believe in equality?

iptba

fits wrote: »

iptba wrote:

I don't think the sexual assault issue like lots of other issues should be left to feminists. Injustices can occur otherwise. We have seen with issues like domestic violence how unfair structures can be to men when left to feminists to organise training for professionals, raise awareness of issues in the media, provide support for victims, etc.

What? Aren't most people these days feminists, unless they're from the dark ages. Are you saying Sexual assault issues should not be left to people who believe in equality?

I don't believe a lot of feminists do a good job at striving for equality. Many take a one-sided approach focusing on helping women. There can be a place for such approach e.g. in trials we have both sides being represented. But just leaving issues to feminists is a bit like just like having one side being represented in a trial.

Another area we can see a lack of balance is in gender studies courses and the like. There is far from an equal approach to the genders and issues in their lives in such courses.

fits

I really don't understand what kind of context you are talking about... is it law enforcement? Are you saying there are too many feminists in the Garda siochana? Hence men aren't being treated fairly. That it?

py2006

fits wrote: »

What? Aren't most people these days feminists, unless they're from the dark ages. Are you saying Sexual assault issues should not be left to people who believe in equality?

Wow!

Classicporter

fits wrote: »

I really don't understand what kind of context you are talking about... is it law enforcement? Are you saying there are too many feminists in the Garda siochana? Hence men aren't being treated fairly. That it?

Feminism in effect is a trade union for women. It doesn't serve equality.

fits

Classicporter wrote: »

Feminism .....doesn't serve equality.

You are entitled to your opinion but I don't agree with you.

PucaMama

Classicporter wrote: »

Feminism in effect is a trade union for women. It doesn't serve equality.

Feminism is about equality for women, not equality for everyone. There are groups for men's rights why should feminism have to include it.

py2006

PucaMama wrote: »

Feminism is about equality for women, not equality for everyone.

There are plenty of feminists who would disagree with you.

Pawwed Rig

PucaMama wrote: »

Feminism is about equality for women, not equality for everyone. There are groups for men's rights why should feminism have to include it.

That is one faction of feminism. Other factions will claim to be for equality for all whereas others are for female supremacy. There is no one definition of feminism which is why it is being rejected by many. I doubt anyone here is anti equality but some would not identify as feminist as feminism does not always equal equality as has been demonstrated numerous times on this and other threads.

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

Feminism is about equality for women, not equality for everyone. There are groups for men's rights why should feminism have to include it.

I think you are right that many feminists approach equality in the way you mention in the first sentence. However, there haven't always been men's rights groups, although I think there is a need for them for the reason you have given.

fits

In Ireland.. feminism is for equality. I don't know where this female supremacy rubbish comes from. Female supremacy is female supremacy, not feminism, and its pretty much non existent in Ireland. Some folks would wanna stop feeding their paranoia with loony websites based elsewhere.

py2006

PucaMama wrote: »

Feminism is about equality for women, not equality for everyone.

Let me just highlight this in case it was missed...

iptba

fits wrote: »

In Ireland.. feminism is for equality.

Seanad Eireann debate

This seems the exact opposite of equality to me:

http://debates.oireachtas.ie/seanad/2008/05/20/00003.asp

This week, we are fortunate to receive a visit from Baroness Jean Corston from the British House of L[817]ords who produced a very radical report last year on women in prison and who recommended, after a very thorough review, that prison places for women should essentially be abolished and that there should just be a small number of small detention units for women. Otherwise, alternative sanctions should be used. We could very much learn from the lessons of that report.

I am happy to say that Baroness Corston will be visiting Leinster House on Thursday. Deputy Mary O’Rourke and I are hosting a meeting with her for all women Members of the Oireachtas. I am sorry that we cannot invite any male colleagues interested in this issue to the briefing with Baroness Corston.

Senator David Norris: Information on David P.B. Norris Zoom on David P.B. Norris Why not?

Senator Ivana Bacik: Information on Ivana Bacik Zoom on Ivana Bacik I would be happy to meet them to discuss the issues at another time.

The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice will also host a seminar on Thursday evening on the future of women’s imprisonment. This is an issue which we could very usefully debate in this House and could lead the way in calling for a critical review of women’s imprisonment, as Baroness Corston has done in Great Britain.

PucaMama

py2006 wrote: »

Let me just highlight this in case it was missed...

As if its a surprise......feminism is for women's equality, men's rights is for men's equality. Makes sense they look after their own.

py2006

PucaMama wrote: »

As if its a surprise......feminism is for women's equality, men's rights is for men's equality. Makes sense they look after their own.

Hmm I'd rather equality for all but that's just me.

PucaMama

py2006 wrote: »

Hmm if rather equality for all but that's just me.

Then support both.

py2006

PucaMama wrote: »

Then support both.

No I won't be affiliated with a movement that excludes others. I'm an egalitarian.

iptba

PucaMama wrote: »

Then support both.

I think all sorts of input needs to be made on issues, like you suggest. Otherwise, important data and viewpoints can be missed.