Mens Rights Thread

DoYouEvenLift

Wompa1 wrote: »

Also want to hear one of the worst divorce stories ever? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg

Pawwed Rig

How on earth did this poor guy get convicted? There was zero evidence against him

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-31080794

ancapailldorcha

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

How on earth did this poor guy get convicted? There was zero evidence against him

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-north-east-wales-31080794

That's harrowing reading. They weren't even in the car. You would that that a lack of geographical proximity would prevent a conviction.

Pawwed Rig

It looks like the burden of proof was on him to prove himself innocent, otherwise he was going to be sentenced :eek:

ancapailldorcha

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

It looks like the burden of proof was on him to prove himself innocent, otherwise he was going to be sentenced :eek:

Hard to disagree with that. I don't know how long the victims waited before contacting the police but surely any sort of forensic investigation would have cleared this poor guy.

Wibbs

And even after all of that he says he has sympathy for the women who falsely accused him? He's a better man than me. If it was anyway possible I'd be taking legal acton, civil if criminal was a no go, against all three for bearing false witness against me. I'd also be asking questions of the police and legal profession with it.

ancapailldorcha

Wibbs wrote: »

And even after all of that he says he has sympathy for the women who falsely accused him? He's a better man than me. If it was anyway possible I'd be taking legal acton, civil if criminal was a no go, against all three for bearing false witness against me. I'd also be asking questions of the police and legal profession with it.

It's not clear, to me at least whether or not the police jumped on the most likely suspect or the girls either maliciously or mistakenly identified him. I'd say he's just glad he's out and the thing is over. Legal action means going over it all again.

Pawwed Rig

If that is the 'enhanced' pic of the taxi then the original one that secured the conviction must have been indecipherable.

Pat Mustard

Wibbs wrote: »

And even after all of that he says he has sympathy for the women who falsely accused him? He's a better man than me. If it was anyway possible I'd be taking legal acton, civil if criminal was a no go, against all three for bearing false witness against me. I'd also be asking questions of the police and legal profession with it.

I'd have to say that the finger of blame should be pointed squarely at the Police for very sloppy investigative work. The CPS did not cover themselves in glory either but they work on the evidence presented to them. GIGO: garbage in, garbage out.

This is a case where the defence lawyers did their job so I couldn't agree with criticism of the legal profession as a whole, in this case.

iptba

(January 30 article)

If as many women killed themselves as men, we'd never hear the end of it

It is too simplistic to blame the shocking rise in male suicide on men being unable to open up about their problems, says Neil Lyndon

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/active/mens-health/11377311/If-as-many-women-killed-themselves-as-men-wed-never-hear-the-end-of-it.html

He lists some male artists of various types who committed suicide to question the idea that they would be unable to express how they feel.

He makes general points also e.g. about men being less inclined to see themselves as being part of a collective [i.e. of men in general].

VinLieger

Wompa1 wrote: »

There was a similar case in Canada. Also want to hear one of the worst divorce stories ever? :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaC-2lj6HNg

I only posted because when I thought of the case I heard about in Canada, I also thought about the divorce laws there

Still cannot believe how messed up Canadas laws are in this regard

Pawwed Rig

iptba wrote: »

He lists some male artists of various types who committed suicide to question the idea that they would be unable to express how they feel.

He makes general points also e.g. about men being less inclined to see themselves as being part of a collective [i.e. of men in general].

This is something that I have given alot of thought to over the years as most of my favourite artists have either killed themselves or died of excess. My thoughts are that the 'tortured soul' directly contributed to their creative ability thereby making them into the recognisable artist. You can see throughout history that many artists were self destructive (Van Gogh being a good example). Were they 'cured' of their demons they may not have been the artist that they are remembered as.

iptba

(I wasn't sure which thread to post this on)

"The Angry Men Of The Internet" (February 1). A therapist reflects on men's anger and decides telling them to not be angry is not the way to deal with things.

http://relatingtomen.com/blog/angry-men-internet-2/

ancapailldorcha

Pawwed Rig

So the child benefit for my little boy has been withdrawn because I filled out the form instead of my wife.

From Stat Instrument - SOCIAL WELFARE (CONSOLIDATED CLAIMS, PAYMENTS AND CONTROL) REGULATIONS 2007
person with whom a qualified child shall be regarded as normally residing shall be determined in accordance with the following Rules:
mother,
step-mother,
father,
step-father
shall be regarded as normally residing with the person first so mentioned and with no other person.

They will not accept a signature from the Father unless the wife is dead or the child resides soley with the Dad. Needless to say I am slightly annoyed

Yurt2

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

So the child benefit for my little boy has been withdrawn because I filled out the form instead of my wife.

From Stat Instrument - SOCIAL WELFARE (CONSOLIDATED CLAIMS, PAYMENTS AND CONTROL) REGULATIONS 2007
person with whom a qualified child shall be regarded as normally residing shall be determined in accordance with the following Rules:
mother,
step-mother,
father,
step-father
shall be regarded as normally residing with the person first so mentioned and with no other person.

They will not accept a signature from the Father unless the wife is dead or the child resides soley with the Dad. Needless to say I am slightly annoyed

Wow, I'd be making some noise about that.

Wibbs

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

They will not accept a signature from the Father unless the wife is dead or the child resides soley with the Dad. Needless to say I am slightly annoyed

Yo are kidding me PW? :eek: That is beyond unreal it's full on insulting :mad:

FactCheck

This has come up on Boards before, yes?

In Ireland, if a child lives with its mother, the mother must be the one to receive child benefit. She cannot nominate someone else to receive it.

It doesn't matter that (admittedly a tiny minority - less than 2% last time I checked the CSO figures) some stay at home parents are fathers. The Government doesn't care. The Constitution says that women are the primary caregivers of children and the State does not care if you disagree.

if you want the State's money, you have to accept that They Know Best.

Isn't it nice that we have the Government to tell us how to run our private family life?

limklad

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's harrowing reading. They weren't even in the car. You would that that a lack of geographical proximity would prevent a conviction.

If the girls could not identify the Taxi and it was a London style taxi that they got into, then that immediately for me start unraveling their story.

I am all in favor of recording what goes on in Taxis, for Criminal and Court evidence of damage and of false allegation towards Taxi Drivers.
A few years ago, I met a elderly female Taxi driver, the stories a female taxi driver told me about women passengers where not great in comparison to men who treat her with respect. Her experience with women, changed her mind for wanting to drive them home late at night to get them safe, because of regular threats of report her to the Gardai for sexual assault, just so they can get away with not paying for taxi ride home. Some of them forget to see that the Taxi driver is a near retirement woman and not a man, which they are used to dealing with.

If they accused me, I would sue the women. They falsely accusing him, the distress they cause him and his family and for lost earnings. Been accused of alleged sexual harassment is huge nowadays, it has far reaching implications for the accused and will follow him the rest of his life and those who engage of falsely accusation others should be financially and criminally liable.

limklad

The Mustard wrote: »

I'd have to say that the finger of blame should be pointed squarely at the Police for very sloppy investigative work. The CPS did not cover themselves in glory either but they work on the evidence presented to them. GIGO: garbage in, garbage out.

This is a case where the defence lawyers did their job so I couldn't agree with criticism of the legal profession as a whole, in this case.

Police only do sloppy work, when the burden of proof is so low that procustion can get away with successful prosecution of an innocent party.
I not only blame the Police involved, but The Crown Prosecution Service,
the Judges, for allowing this sloppy evidence, and the State (Government and UK Parliament) for removing self defense rights for the defendant with very low burden of proof that easily fail in a murder case.

They are all guilty of the wrongful conviction. I bet they all sleep well at night without shame.

Pat Mustard

limklad wrote: »

Police only do sloppy work, when the burden of proof is so low that procustion can get away with successful prosecution of an innocent party.

The burden of proof is that the State, or in this case, the CPS, has to prove its case.

The standard of proof is is to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore, all that needs to be done is to show a reasonable doubt and the guy walks.

limklad wrote: »

I not only blame the Police involved, but The Crown Prosecution Service,
the Judges, for allowing this sloppy evidence, and the State (Government and UK Parliament) for removing self defense rights for the defendant with very low burden of proof that easily fail in a murder case.

I totally agree that the police carried out a sloppy investigation. The CPS deserve their portion of the blame but they don't investigate crimes - they deal with the evidence in front of them. They don't have the defence case so they can't necessarily see the holes in their own case. On the other hand, the defence is entitled to the documentation that the CPS has. So it's all very well to criticize the CPS after the fact for their part in this but we don't know the degree to which they were careless in this regard.

I would agree that the CCTV image is very unclear and that a judge should be very wary of convicting on the basis of such evidence. However, if you look at the news report, it seems that the unfortunate man was convicted by magistrates. Magistrates are lay volunteers, not judges.

limklad

The Mustard wrote: »

The burden of proof is that the State, or in this case, the CPS, has to prove its case.

The standard of proof is is to prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. Therefore, all that needs to be done is to show a reasonable doubt and the guy walks.


I totally agree that the police carried out a sloppy investigation. The CPS deserve their portion of the blame but they don't investigate crimes - they deal with the evidence in front of them. They don't have the defense case so they can't necessarily see the holes in their own case. On the other hand, the defense is entitled to the documentation that the CPS has. So it's all very well to criticize the CPS after the fact for their part in this but we don't know the degree to which they were careless in this regard.

I would agree that the CCTV image is very unclear and that a judge should be very wary of convicting on the basis of such evidence. However, if you look at the news report, it seems that the unfortunate man was convicted by magistrates. Magistrates are lay volunteers, not judges.

Do not mistake sex burden of proof with burden of proof of cases with murder or man slaughter. there are different, same in civil cases. Burden of proof is different in different suits.

Once the State lowers the burden of proof, and the man have to proof his innocence in sex cases then the convictions under these UK law can be legitimately be suspiciously fall foul of decency and fairness.

UK sex laws changes in recent years, that the burden of proof is much lower than in many other criminal court cases.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/apr/06/claredyer1

Men contesting rape charges will have to convince a jury that their accusers gave free and unqualified consent, under radical proposals from a review of the law on sex offenses set up by the Home Office. The reform would strengthen the hands of rape complainants by forcing a defendant to show not only that his accuser consented to sex, but did so freely. It would shift the balance in rape trials in the accuser's favour and could substantially improve the low success rate in rape prosecutions.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/the-burden-of-proof-605414.html


Under latest moves in England and Wales rape investigations, now men must proof that she said yes to sex.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11375667/Men-must-prove-a-woman-said-Yes-under-tough-new-rape-rules.html

Ei incumbit probatio qui dicit, non qui negat – “The burden of proof is on he who declares, not on he who denies.”

This will not be the case once Harriet Harman gets her way and start destroying more relationships between men and women.

As I said before Police , CPS , Judges only perform sloppy work, when they are allowed to perform sloppy work and jail innocent people.

Anyone can declare you a rapist in England and Wales, then the burden of proof is on you, not the Crown (State). Selfish Women who already on open season on men with the state aid. There been many cases where women here in Ireland have sued dioceses and innocent priests of rape, to get easy settlements, because to sue in civil case has less burden of proof than in Criminal Court. Many selfish people knows that they can easily sue to quick settlement and the defendant often have to pay the Civil Court costs. Most settlements get settled in favor of the complainant even though the defendant is innocent.
In England and Wales, it will be far easier in years going forward, with their new policies and much lower of burden of proof in sex cases to put far more innocent men in Jail, destroying their future prospective and careers.

How man men will be falsely accused, if women and men are competing for the same job?
How many women will use these new sex policies to get rid of the father of their child?
How man women will falsely accuse you of rape, when both of you are going for the same thing, such as a house or car or some object, to punish you for been interested in buying the same thing she wanted.
How many women will falsely accuse you of rape, when you will not drop the cost of the object she wants, just to punish you?
How many women will threatens you to perform certain jobs for them for free, instead of getting paid for legitimate work. The list will goes on and the numbers of false rape allegations is getting higher.
Women are far less fair to men these days than days in the past. They have mush less to fear for performing bad deeds these days.

ancapailldorcha

limklad wrote: »

How man men will be falsely accused, if women and men are competing for the same job?
How many women will use these new sex policies to get rid of the father of their child?
How man women will falsely accuse you of rape, when both of you are going for the same thing, such as a house or car or some object, to punish you for been interested in buying the same thing she wanted.
How many women will falsely accuse you of rape, when you will not drop the cost of the object she wants, just to punish you?
How many women will threatens you to perform certain jobs for them for free, instead of getting paid for legitimate work. The list will goes on and the numbers of false rape allegations is getting higher.
Women are far less fair to men these days than days in the past. They have mush less to fear for performing bad deeds these days.

limklad, do not post in this thread again. This is well below the standard required.

Please do not respond to this post.

iptba

(February 27 article)

'You can't hug Skype': Father wins legal battle against ex-wife trying to take their two-year-old son to Hong Kong after judge agrees you can't cuddle over the internet

- Mother planned move to Hong Kong and wanted to take two-year-old son
- She argued that father could visit and video call pair over the internet
- Judge rules boy must stay in England after father argues 'you can't hug Skype'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2972442/You-t-hug-Skype-Father-wins-legal-battle-against-ex-wife-trying-two-year-old-son-Hong-Kong-judge-agrees-t-cuddle-internet.html

Seems reasonable

Seriously?

The most telling part is the following quote:

And at the High Court today Judge Roderic Wood said the plan was inadequate because 'you can't hug Skype', adding that he did not believe the mother would stick to her commitments.

iptba

(UK)

Large firms will have to reveal gender pay gap

Large firms will have to reveal differences between average pay for male and female workers under a change to a law passing through Parliament.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-31779773

Per se, just a neutral move. But I can't help wondering whether it could lead, at least occasionally, to so-called positive discrimination for women aka discrimination against men for promotions and the like.

And one won't get data on things like "danger gap" e.g. exposure to more dangerous work (in return for greater pay).

ancapailldorcha

Is it because there are more men that women in high paying jobs causing a disparity in averages? There are more male footballers, CEOs, etc.. It doesn't mention differing pay for the same role which is worrying.

UCDVet

Studies comparing wages are very tricky things. Unless you account for all differences, you'll reach a meaningless conclusion.

DoYouEvenLift

Quotas are another thing that, to me, are ridiculous. At least in boards of companies and definitely in politics. I'm completely against factoring in anything other than relevant criteria when choosing who is in charge of the most important things. Gender should be seen as completely irrelevant when it comes to these things, only credentials such as qualifications and experience should be the deciding factors. If that meant that suddenly every government in the world was entirely male or entirely female then so be it, either way the strongest and most suitable candidates would be awarded the positions.


I can't believe these ridiculous concepts are even being seriously considered to the point that they're even being introduced in some countries now AFAIK.

ancapailldorcha

I find it disheartening that the Telegraph seems to be the only paper even remotely interested in men:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11457901/Mens-rights-campaigners-should-work-with-feminists-instead-of-fighting-them.html

KomradeBishop

^^ Very good article - I find it hard to understand why that kind of a balance in addressing gender issues, seems so hard for many to achieve.

tritium

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I find it disheartening that the Telegraph seems to be the only paper even remotely interested in men:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/men/relationships/11457901/Mens-rights-campaigners-should-work-with-feminists-instead-of-fighting-them.html

Never thought I'd find myself liking the Torygraph and yet that a couple of good balanced articles in quick succession. About the only bit the author missed (for me) was that maybe feminists and mras should stop assuming the other gender needs to be fixed to conform to their own view of what they should be like.

Lemming

TBH, that article started well and then fell face firsrt from a great height into a side-swipe against males.

Whilst immeasurably better quality reading than the sewage spewing from other big name publishers, Disappointed dot com.

iptba

I was criticised earlier in the thread for mentioning that there are a lot of men's rights activists in India.

An example of an issue there is that the domestic violence act is not gender neutral: only women are protected under it
(sample reference: http://anubhavngo.org/2014/12/31/domestic-violence-act-india/)

Seriously?

iptba wrote: »

I was criticised earlier in the thread for mentioning that there are a lot of men's rights activists in India.

An example of an issue there is that the domestic violence act is not gender neutral: only women are protected under it
(sample reference: http://anubhavngo.org/2014/12/31/domestic-violence-act-india/)

Then you will not be wanting to read the following:

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-31810284

tritium

Not sure if this is the best thread for this, (not sure where it fits). Another example that men can be victims of DV too

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/male-domestic-violence-victim-i-never-imagined-something-like-this-would-happen-to-me-10105586.html?origin=internalSearch

ancapailldorcha

I meant to upload that earlier. Great that it's getting attention. I just hope she gets a sentence befitting such a horrible crime.

tritium

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I meant to upload that earlier. Great that it's getting attention. I just hope she gets a sentence befitting such a horrible crime.

Actually heartening to see how much coverage this is getting online- independent, Irish examiner, the major UK titles, BBC, ITV etc.

Only ones blatantly absent are the guardian and Irish times so far strangely enough....(guess the former didn't want to make a lie of Jessica valenti's last effort)

Pawwed Rig

Such a cowardly attack. The poor man wouldn't even have seen it coming.

py2006

It will be interesting to see what kind of sentencing she gets.

iptba

(UK article, Feb 24)

Judge tells ex-wife of millionaire horse surgeon: 'go out to work'

Appeal by Tracey Wright against decision by family court to slash her future maintenance from former husband rejected

An appeal court judge has told the ex-wife of a millionaire horse surgeon to seek employment, warning that she has no right to expect “an income for life” at her former husband’s expense.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/24/judge-ex-wife-millionaire-work

Seems reasonable.

tritium

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/19/chase-hironimus-circumcision-_n_6904124.html?cps=gravity_2425_-8107904709806480266

Seems that a US court thinks its ok to circumcise a little boy because his daddy wants to, regardless of the child's view. Not a baby, a 4 year old who apparently doesn't want the procedure..

Seriously?

This will be an interesting case to follow:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/12/b-c-man-wins-right-to-sue-rape-accuser-for-defamation-after-he-was-cleared-of-charge/

Would be great to see women who accuse men falsely of rape held accountable.

DoYouEvenLift

Seriously? wrote: »

This will be an interesting case to follow:
http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/02/12/b-c-man-wins-right-to-sue-rape-accuser-for-defamation-after-he-was-cleared-of-charge/

Would be great to see women who accuse men falsely of rape held accountable.

I'd like to see the victim be able to personally gain through suing for having to go through the sh!t and also see the false accuser punished with prison time by the law for wasting police and court resources and time. Of course this can't actually happen as it'd be seen as too harsh and a deterrent for actual rape victims to come forward in fear of being considered a liar, which is honestly terrible but this is what happens when scumbags abuse the system. Nobody is to blame here but the liars, they're just exacerbating a very serious problem for legitimate victims. Sad as fuk.

iptba

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Of course this can't actually happen as it'd be seen as too harsh and a deterrent for actual rape victims to come forward in fear of being considered a liar, which is honestly terrible but this is what happens when scumbags abuse the system. Nobody is to blame here but the liars, they're just exacerbating a very serious problem for legitimate victims. Sad as fuk.

I don't see why people can't be held accountable for their actions. Saying somebody who was hundreds of kilometres away raped you isn't like some cases where there might conflicting evidence. Not punishing clearly false cases could lead to more false accusation.

ancapailldorcha

I think the argument against prosecuting such claims is sold as DoYouEvenLift has mentioned. There's no way to be 100% sure without actual data the difficulties gathering which should be obvious. I'm inclined to believe the staff of rape crisis centres as they know what these people have been through though it makes the crime of a calculate false accusation all the worse IMO.

jackofalltrades

DoYouEvenLift wrote: »

Of course this can't actually happen as it'd be seen as too harsh and a deterrent for actual rape victims to come forward in fear of being considered a liar.

Does anyone know if there has ever been a study into this?
To find out if it's a deterrent, and if so to what extent?

ancapailldorcha

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Does anyone know if there has ever been a study into this?
To find out if it's a deterrent, and if so to what extent?

How would you do such a study?

iptba

If there was more empathy and sympathy for people who were falsely accused and how such an accusation could have a major detrimental effect on somebody, society might be more willing to have fairness and punishments where there were clearly malicious accusations.

But I think there is a tendency of some to focus more on the suffering of women than men. (Another example is domestic violence victims)

jackofalltrades

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

How would you do such a study?

Pretty sure we've had this conversation before.:)

There are already surveys done on victims of crime and their reasons for not reporting their crimes to authorities.
People are making the claim that prosecuting false rape accusations could act as a deterrent.
If people are contemplating restricting other peoples right to justice, then surely they should have something to backup their claim with.