Mens Rights Thread

1hnr79jr65

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That's good. Domestic violence is a serious issue but it's a separate one. Depp should do time if he's guilty but his pre-marital assets shouldn't be part of the equation.

This is the problem right here, the guy is famous and already on 1 side you have people coming out in "support" of the alleged victim and damning him.

The other side you have "support" of the alleged guilty party damning her.

Alot of this "support" is from people who dont even know either party personally, are in different countries and gernerally including armchair internet warriors with strong opinions.

How about people try following the novel democratic process of innocent before guilty and IF he is found guilty then you can damn him all you want. If he is found NOT guilty then other side can damn her all they want.

Too much focus demonising people before ALL facts have been shown in court and a jury of peers or judge has made a determination.

tritium

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

That's good. Domestic violence is a serious issue but it's a separate one. Depp should do time if he's guilty but his pre-marital assets shouldn't be part of the equation.

Pretty much this. Since when did we turn the split of marital assets into revenge porn?

NI24

tritium wrote: »

I guess that feminism like every other religion or cult places on its members an obligation to proselytize. Only thing that could explain the number of "preachers" we've had of late

If you get upset when people debate your ideas on a discussion forum then perhaps you ought to lie down in a dark room with a cool rag on your forehead. You don't get to have a "safe space" (I'm sure you'll love that word).

Anyways, I fail to see how a Hollywood starlet filing for spousal support has anything to do with men's rights in Ireland. Especially since all she did is apply for the support, she hasn't actually been granted it.

Pat Mustard

NI24 wrote: »

If you get upset when people debate your ideas on a discussion forum then perhaps you ought to lie down in a dark room with a cool rag on your forehead. You don't get to have a "safe space" (I'm sure you'll love that word).

If.

iptba

(Ireland)

Higher Education Institutions Will Risk Funding Penalties if They Fail to Address Gender Inequality

Higher education institutions will risk funding being withheld if they fail to address gender inequality in the coming years.

That’s one of the outcomes of a report published today (27.06.16) on gender equality in higher education. The report was compiled by the Expert Group commissioned by the Higher Education Authority (HEA) to undertake a national review of gender equality in higher education institutions. The Expert Group was chaired by Máire Geoghegan-Quinn.

etc.

http://www.hea.ie/news/higher-education-institutions-will-risk-funding-penalties-if-they-fail-address-gender

Woodward

iptba wrote: »

(Ireland)


http://www.hea.ie/news/higher-education-institutions-will-risk-funding-penalties-if-they-fail-address-gender

Does this mean they are going to increase the number of male students?

LostinBlanch

Woodward wrote: »

Does this mean they are going to increase the number of male students?

Yeah right.

Elliott S

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

This is the problem right here, the guy is famous and already on 1 side you have people coming out in "support" of the alleged victim and damning him.

The other side you have "support" of the alleged guilty party damning her.

Alot of this "support" is from people who dont even know either party personally, are in different countries and gernerally including armchair internet warriors with strong opinions.

How about people try following the novel democratic process of innocent before guilty and IF he is found guilty then you can damn him all you want. If he is found NOT guilty then other side can damn her all they want.

Too much focus demonising people before ALL facts have been shown in court and a jury of peers or judge has made a determination.

The most sensible post I've read on this subject. Bravo.

iptba

New group to me:

MEN’S VOICES IRELAND

Men’s Voices Ireland is a group dedicated to:
​
- claiming space in the national conversation for issues of concern to men and boys
- addressing the injustices experienced by men and boys in our society.

http://mensvoices2016.com/index.html

iptba

Irish universities tackle gender diversity in STEM roles

Diversity & Inclusion The number of women in senior higher education STEM posts in Ireland is being boosted by an award scheme that recognises how institutions are improving gender equality.

Higher education institutions in Ireland have signed up to the Athena SWAN Charter to boost the number of women in senior academic and research roles across STEM subjects.

Continues at:
http://www.businessnews.ie/diversity-and-inclusion/irish-universities-tackle-gender-diversity-in-stem-roles

Having more women doesn't necessarily mean the institutions are improving gender equality.
It could mean the opposite in some cases: some individuals (who are male) could be discriminated against due to their gender

iptba

(UK)

White, straight, able-bodied man? You can't attend equality summit: Lecturers' union members must declare their 'protected characteristic' when applying to attend

- Equality conference of University and College Union asked characteristics
- Activists say it means representatives who do not qualify can't participate
- They would be barred from ‘break-out’ sessions called a ‘safe space’

By Eleanor Harding, Education Correspondent For The Daily Mail

Published: 02:02, 7 June 2016 | Updated: 02:43, 7 June 2016

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3628538/White-straight-able-bodied-man-t-attend-equality-summit-Lecturers-union-members-declare-protected-characteristic-applying-attend.html

Activists say that it means representatives who do not qualify cannot participate in all of the discussions – even though they have been elected by their union branch.

iptba

(UK)

Nottinghamshire Police records misogyny as a hate crime

13 July 2016

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-36775398

The force defines misogyny hate crime as: "Incidents against women that are motivated by an attitude of a man towards a woman and includes behaviour targeted towards a woman by men simply because they are a woman."

This definition seems a bit odd.
Also there is no mention of an equivalent rule for misandry.

py2006

iptba wrote: »

(UK)

Nottinghamshire Police records misogyny as a hate crime

13 July 2016

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-36775398


This definition seems a bit odd.
Also there is no mention of an equivalent rule for misandry.

Also, they are excluding women who have issues with women.

The definition of mysogyny needs to be clearly defined too. To me it is the most misused word online these days. It seems to have cropped up a lot in the last year or so, replacing the word sexism.

iptba

Commission threatens hiring ‘freeze’ on men if more women don’t get top jobs

Kristalina Georgieva says if departments don’t reach gender targets, ‘sanctions are coming.’

The European Commission’s budget and human resources chief said Wednesday she would order a “freeze” on the hiring of men in the institution unless some of its departments gave more top jobs to women.

Kristalina Georgieva, a Commission vice president who is sometimes referred to as the EU executive body’s chief operating officer, has sought to increase the number of women in senior positions in the institution to 40 percent by 2019. But after a meeting of commissioners Wednesday at which she presented a report on progress toward that goal, she said more needed to be done.



“My determination is that if it is necessary, I will freeze appointments,” Georgieva told POLITICO. “Some departments have to reach their targets, and if they don’t, sanctions are coming.”

Georgieva said that currently about 30 percent of Commission senior managers and 33 percent of middle managers are women.

continues at:
http://www.politico.eu/article/commission-threatens-hiring-freeze-on-men-if-more-women-dont-get-top-jobs-kristalina-georgieva-gender-equality-europe/

silverharp

iptba wrote: »

continues at:
http://www.politico.eu/article/commission-threatens-hiring-freeze-on-men-if-more-women-dont-get-top-jobs-kristalina-georgieva-gender-equality-europe/

I think I would advise any kid starting out to avoid the quango and all other soft State like jobs, it seems like they will attract this kind of thinking

JRant

silverharp wrote: »

I think I would advise any kid starting out to avoid the quango and all other soft State like jobs, it seems like they will attract this kind of thinking

It's just turning in to jobs for the girls really.

iptba

(Irish Times, August 9)

Men in early childcare: ‘We’ve seen nothing but a positive impact’

Some children don’t have dads in the home so it’s nice for them to have a male role model

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/men-in-early-childcare-we-ve-seen-nothing-but-a-positive-impact-1.2737229

Extract:

As a mother of two young children who attend one of the centres, she likens the “different approach” of the male staff to the complementary strengths a mother and a father bring to raising children.

“If I had my way,” she adds, “we would have a lot more.”

silverharp

iptba wrote: »

(Irish Times, August 9)
Extract:

they were talking about that on radio 1 yesterday. its still kind of a dead end job for a man unless you had a plan to open up your own business. its kind of hay, here is a career where you can look after kids but you wont be able to afford to have your own family

Pawwed Rig

silverharp wrote: »

they were talking about that on radio 1 yesterday. its still kind of a dead end job for a man unless you had a plan to open up your own business. its kind of hay, here is a career where you can look after kids but you wont be able to afford to have your own family

Dead end job for everyone from what I can see. They rely on the very young (usually foreign girls) to keep costs down to make any kind of profit. Rarely anyone above 25 ime.

iptba

silverharp wrote: »

they were talking about that on radio 1 yesterday. its still kind of a dead end job for a man unless you had a plan to open up your own business. its kind of hay, here is a career where you can look after kids but you wont be able to afford to have your own family

Though if women were more willing to marry "down" financially this wouldn't apply specifically to men.

However I'm not convinced this is all down to socialisation just as I don't believe that the fact that a woman's physical appearance is so relatively important regarding her attractiveness is all down to socialisation (or the mystical patriarchy) either.

silverharp

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Dead end job for everyone from what I can see. They rely on the very young (usually foreign girls) to keep costs down to make any kind of profit. Rarely anyone above 25 ime.

its never going to be a high paying job because of the nature of it in the past it worked because is was a cottage industry working out of people's houses. now its become industrialised with lots of overhead. I had to laugh when they said 40% I think have a degree in childcare which sounds like having a degree in being a granny :pac: education inflation how are ya!

iptba wrote: »

Though if women were more willing to marry "down" financially this wouldn't apply specifically to men.

However I'm not convinced this is all down to socialisation just as I don't believe that the fact that a woman's physical appearance is so relatively important regarding her attractiveness is all down to socialisation (or the mystical patriarchy) either.

the big male feminist hope yeah not going to happen human nature trumps this blank slate nonsense.

silverharp

I normally prefer arguments to memes but given that men in the US do go to jail for not keeping up with child payments its a hard hitting meme

Maguined

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/juries-no-place-rape-trials-victims-deserve-unprejudiced-justice-judge

Julie Bindel believes there should be no jury for sexual assault trials.

Why do away with one of the fundamentals of a decent justice system? Is the jury system not set up in order to better ensure fairness and justice, rather than relying on a crusty old Etonian in a wig?

Not in rape cases. If jurors were to receive the level of training and awareness-raising necessary to challenge the deep-rooted and highly persuasive myths about rape, the jury system would be more effective in dealing with sex crimes – but this would take more than a few words from the judge at the beginning of a trial, which is how it works at the moment.

I do not think removing the jury system would be a better thing for society and I think Julie Bindel's definition of "effective" dealing of sex crimes is a guilty verdict regardless of evidence.

I would love to see much harsher punishments for sexual offences as they are beyond a joke like many crimes in this country but there is a huge difference between the determination of guilt and the punishment for guilt.

py2006

Maguined wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/juries-no-place-rape-trials-victims-deserve-unprejudiced-justice-judge

Julie Bindel believes there should be no jury for sexual assault trials.

Another example of dangerous feminists.

iptba

FWIW:

She says life is easier for women in Ireland than in Croatia. “Croatia is a patriarchal society, and here I feel it’s the opposite. Yes, in Croatia we have equality and women have the right to abortion, but it’s just the little things here. The men in Ireland don’t whistle when you’re walking by. It’s just those little things that make it easier to be a woman here.”

from:
http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/men-in-ireland-don-t-whistle-when-you-re-walking-by-1.2749359

iptba

If jurors were to receive the level of training and awareness-raising necessary to challenge the deep-rooted and highly persuasive myths about rape, the jury system would be more effective in dealing with sex crimes

I imagine this would involve feminist statistics on issues, which may not be reliable.

Pawwed Rig

I am not sure why abortion seems to be equated with Feminism at all. Just as many women as men voted against it last time it was put to the people. I would bet the same on any future referendum.

mzungu

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am not sure why abortion seems to be equated with Feminism at all. Just as many women as men voted against it last time it was put to the people. I would bet the same on any future referendum.

I'd say you're right. It has been shown consistently in polls done in the US over the past few decades, that a slightly higher amount of men, than women, support it.

iptba

Wrongfully Convicted of Rape, a New Jersey Man Finds More Punishment After Prison

By ALAN FEUERAUG. 2, 2016

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/03/nyregion/wrongfully-convicted-of-rape-a-new-jersey-man-finds-more-punishment-after-prison.html

Potentially interesting given such laws may get proposed here at some stage.

ongarboy

I'm all for equal rights but this is not the way to do it!! It just undermines a legitimate cause.

http://www.newstalk.com/Rose-of-Tralee-interrupted-as-campaigner-invades-stage

mzungu

ongarboy wrote: »

I'm all for equal rights but this is not the way to do it!! It just undermines a legitimate cause.

http://www.newstalk.com/Rose-of-Tralee-interrupted-as-campaigner-invades-stage

I agree. There are other ways to do these things to highlight the cause.

I know it's a moot point, but why are a UK based Fathers Rights group hijacking the Rose of Tralee? Their audience (the UK) can't even watch it.

Pawwed Rig

I dunno. They are always peacefully protesting and you hear nothing about it. A step up in militancy is inevitable.

tritium

Im a bit on the fence on this too. A hundred years ago when the suffragettes pulled stunts like this (and worse) they faced similar criticim but in the longer term it probably helped them achieve their goals. Once theres no violence, intimidation or threats im a bit slow to condemn a protest

Jawgap

ongarboy wrote: »

I'm all for equal rights but this is not the way to do it!! It just undermines a legitimate cause.

http://www.newstalk.com/Rose-of-Tralee-interrupted-as-campaigner-invades-stage

I'd agree. As a divorced Dad I'd be dead against this type of thing - as bad and all as the Family Court system is here (and as anti-father it is) - I think you achieve more by working within the system rather than through militancy and this type of daft stunt - it just makes it seem like divorced / separated fathers are a bit nuts, which plays into the whole narrative that kids don't really need fathers.

seamus

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I dunno. They are always peacefully protesting and you hear nothing about it. A step up in militancy is inevitable.

This isn't really a step up at all.

He's actually pretty clever about it; they only do things where their exposure will be relatively large but where there's zero chance of them being wrestled down by ten huge security guards, or getting shot or charged with a crime.

Chances are he was dragged off and thrown out the back door. Contrast that with stage invading something like the Queen's variety show, where he'd be pinned on the ground until the bobbies arrive and then he'd be charged with various offences.

LostinBlanch

Maguined wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/12/juries-no-place-rape-trials-victims-deserve-unprejudiced-justice-judge

Julie Bindel believes there should be no jury for sexual assault trials.



I do not think removing the jury system would be a better thing for society and I think Julie Bindel's definition of "effective" dealing of sex crimes is a guilty verdict regardless of evidence.

I would love to see much harsher punishments for sexual offences as they are beyond a joke like many crimes in this country but there is a huge difference between the determination of guilt and the punishment for guilt.

I've only seen this now. Isn't Julie Bindell the one who advocated putting men in concentration camps and who wants

women who want to see their sons or male loved ones would be able to go and visit, and take them out like a library book, and then bring them back.

Scroll down about 2/3 of the way for that quote.

Also, blatant misandry of that quote aside, after reading that "interview" would you trust any court proceedings to be just, fair and honest in her ideal scenario? Would any of the female posters or lurkers here trust that any of their male relatives, friends or acquantainces would get justice in such a system?

I've been trying to figure out something... but I can't seem to find it. What is the end of feminism? The sure sign that they have succeeded for women's rights? I've read loads about finding equality or better rights for women in various areas, but nowhere have I seen an absolute sign to show that they would have succeeded. Instead, they reach a target, and then shift their targets further, and so on. Is there an actual end?

Lemming

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been trying to figure out something... but I can't seem to find it. What is the end of feminism? The sure sign that they have succeeded for women's rights? I've read loads about finding equality or better rights for women in various areas, but nowhere have I seen an absolute sign to show that they would have succeeded. Instead, they reach a target, and then shift their targets further, and so on. Is there an actual end?

Given the highly lucrative industry that is modern feminism, it is not in the interest of those riding the gravy train to see it end. So they'll just keep stoking the fires until either a) they've had enough and get bored or b) they stop making a tidy profit out of other people's suggestibility.

Pat Mustard

LostinBlanch wrote: »

I've only seen this now. Isn't Julie Bindell the one who advocated putting men in concentration camps and who wants

Scroll down about 2/3 of the way for that quote.

Also, blatant misandry of that quote aside, after reading that "interview" would you trust any court proceedings to be just, fair and honest in her ideal scenario? Would any of the female posters or lurkers here trust that any of their male relatives, friends or acquantainces would get justice in such a system?

She is in favour of removing juries from rape trials but she makes no attempt to argue that juries should be removed in relation to all criminal offences. No attempt is made to distinguish the difficulty of a jury in establishing the facts of a rape trial versus a complex fraud trial, for instance.

Her whole article turns upon vague assertions of "deep-rooted and highly persuasive myths" being the reason for this deemed incompetence of juries.

If she can show that guilty people are being acquitted due to incompetent/biased juries instead of failure of evidence, then she might have the basis upon which to form an argument. However, she shows no evidence which can show that there are incompetent or biased juries.

It is interesting that in Ireland, we have the Special Criminal Court, which does not have a jury. The SCC sits in cases where ordinary courts would not be effective. However, it is used in the case of organized crime and paramilitaries, where juries could be intimidated. The SCC does not sit in relation to other crimes. Furthermore, the use of the SCC has been criticised by various civil rights groups.

Getting back to Bindel's article, we can see a further suggestion of "expert lay assessors". Experts in what? In evidence and criminal procedure?

She suggests that judges have a day or two of training in sexual offences. If we had taken the late Paul Carney and compared the vast experience in the area that he had accumulated with what she has written, it just doesn't accord with reality. We have experienced judges. We don't need lay assessors who have neither the experience or the training to sit for a criminal trial.

Almost as an aside, she mentions that the jury system is in place to "better ensure fairness and justice, rather than relying on a crusty old Etonian in a wig". However, if juries were banished arbitrarily, I'd prefer to take my chances that experienced judges who would have a much better understanding of the rules than some "expert" lay assessors.

She complains about the conviction rate, which is one thing. But her ultimate suggestion is to get rid of juries and instal lay assessors.

There is no logical progression from showing that there is a genuine problem with the system, to showing how that problem arises, to reasonable suggestion of reform. This is not a reasoned article.

It's sensationalist garbage.

mzungu

I highly doubt Julie Bindel believes any of what she writes. It gets the clicks though, and she makes a decent living off being controversial.

Pat Mustard

mzungu wrote: »

I highly doubt Julie Bindel believes any of what she writes. It gets the clicks though, and she makes a decent living off being controversial.

I'd agree with that.

silverharp

mzungu wrote: »

I highly doubt Julie Bindel believes any of what she writes. It gets the clicks though, and she makes a decent living off being controversial.

she doesn't believe the opposite, the basic misandry is there , she just doesn't censor her own thoughts :pac:

iptba

Fathers4Justice protester gatecrashes Rose of Tralee on air

Matt O’Connor thrown to ground by four security men before being ushered away

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/fathers4justice-protester-gatecrashes-rose-of-tralee-on-air-1.2765082

Third-highest article in "most read" list when I got my Irish Times email digest this morning

mzungu

silverharp wrote: »

she doesn't believe the opposite, the basic misandry is there , she just doesn't censor her own thoughts :pac:

She has started to row back (a bit) on her views on transsexuals. As in she refuses to comment much on it anymore and certainly not as forthcoming as she once was. Maybe that was bad for business? Misandry is indeed there, but there is so much BS with these people it's hard to know what they actually believe in.

iptba

Irish Times:

Judge Gerard Furlong at the Dublin District Family Court said he was formally warning a mother that her liberty was in jeopardy if she frustrated a court order on breaching an access order regarding her child. “I am very serious when I give you that warning: you are sailing close to the wind,” he said.

Also:

In a separate case, the judge threatened a father with imprisonment. The father had custody of the estranged couple’s daughter, a toddler, and the mother had not been getting court-ordered overnight access, due twice a week.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/jail-threat-for-mother-over-breach-of-ex-partner-s-child-access-1.2766127

iptba

Why the University of Chicago’s Anti–‘Safe Space’ Letter Is Important
By Jesse Singal
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/08/the-university-of-chicagos-anti-safe-space-letter-matters.html

There have been various issues about the difficulties getting men's issues discussed on campuses in various countries such as protests by feminist groups. I'm guessing any of the threads are too old to post in now. Article doesn't mention such process specifically.

iptba

Corbyn wants to ban ‘sexist’ after-work drinks for quite sexist reason

Jeremy Corbyn has said after-work drinks are ‘sexist’ and should be banned, because women will ‘obviously want to look after their children’.

Launching his manifesto for women, the Labour leader said: ‘Early evening socialisation benefits men who don’t feel the need to be at home looking after their children, and it discriminates against women who will want to, obviously, look after the children that they have got.

continues at:
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/02/corbyn-wants-to-ban-sexist-after-work-drinks-for-quite-sexist-reason-6105449/#ixzz4J94XkjUS

It does then go on to include people complaining about Corbyn. Another possible "sexist" angle is presumably there isn't a manifesto for men.

eviltwin

iptba wrote: »

continues at:
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/02/corbyn-wants-to-ban-sexist-after-work-drinks-for-quite-sexist-reason-6105449/#ixzz4J94XkjUS

It does then go on to include people complaining about Corbyn. Another possible "sexist" angle is presumably there isn't a manifesto for men.

How can after works drinks be banned

Lemming

eviltwin wrote: »

How can after works drinks be banned

Clearly you've never been to old Soviet Empire Union komerade. Nyet?

mzungu

iptba wrote: »

continues at:
Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2016/09/02/corbyn-wants-to-ban-sexist-after-work-drinks-for-quite-sexist-reason-6105449/#ixzz4J94XkjUS

It does then go on to include people complaining about Corbyn. Another possible "sexist" angle is presumably there isn't a manifesto for men.

I thought this might have been a wind up. Unfortunately it's not.

From the Telegraph: Click Here

Speaking of the need to ban after work drinks events Mr Corbyn said the culture "benefits men who don't feel the need to be at home looking after their children and it discriminates against women who will want to, obviously, look after the children that they have got".

Do single folks need to arrange separate post-work drinks that exclude their co-workers with kids?