Limerick City of Culture 2014

seachto7

If Galway is so arty, when was the last time they produced a band of international renown, such as The Cranberries.

The Sawdoctors are from Tuam, and only achieved mild success vs The Cranberries. The Stunning, same thing.....

Mairzydoats

seachto7 wrote: »

If Galway is so arty, when was the last time they produced a band of international renown, such as The Cranberries.

The Sawdoctors are from Tuam, and only achieved mild success vs The Cranberries. The Stunning, same thing.....

I don't think Galway is particularly arty but they project that image and they've done a cracking job. Kudos to them!

The image of Limerick that has been portrayed is of a decaying city with a crime problem. And sadly, you're more likely to hear 'Stab City' mentioned than anything else. We need to combat that image instead of allowing it to fester any longer!

zulutango

I've often wondered why Limerick folk do down their own city so much. There isn't the same kind of 'buy in' that you get in Cork or Galway. One theory I have is that the day time population of the city is, by and large, not from the city. Witness the traffic on the arteries out of the city on any evening and it's obvious that a huge chunk of those who work, study and shop in the city don't actually live in it, aren't from it, and have little meaningful connection with it. They don't see themselves as Limerick people and don't have a whole lot of pride in the place. That attitude probably rubs off on the rest of us, so over time, we all tend to think it's not such a great place. The opposite is true in Cork or Galway though. While they still have a daytime population that far exceeds the number who reside in the city, those travelling in and out of those cities on a daily basis are still Cork or Galway people. If you come from Loughrea or Letterfrack, Midleton on Mitchelstown, you'll still see Galway or Cork as 'your' city and you'll be proud of it. That pride permeates the atmosphere and in general you get far more positivity. In Limerick, you may be working or studying with lads from Cratloe or Nenagh and it'll be a cold day in hell before they see Limerick as their city even though it effectively is.

Mairzydoats

zulutango wrote: »

I've often wondered why Limerick folk do down their own city so much. There isn't the same kind of 'buy in' that you get in Cork or Galway. One theory I have is that the day time population of the city is, by and large, not from the city. Witness the traffic on the arteries out of the city on any evening and it's obvious that a huge chunk of those who work, study and shop in the city don't actually live in it, aren't from it, and have little meaningful connection with it. They don't see themselves as Limerick people and don't have a whole lot of pride in the place. That attitude probably rubs off on the rest of us, so over time, we all tend to think it's not such a great place. The opposite is true in Cork or Galway though. While they still have a daytime population that far exceeds the number who reside in the city, those travelling in and out of those cities on a daily basis are still Cork or Galway people. If you come from Loughrea or Letterfrack, Midleton on Mitchelstown, you'll still see Galway or Cork as 'your' city and you'll be proud of it. That pride permeates the atmosphere and in general you get far more positivity. In Limerick, you may be working or studying with lads from Cratloe or Nenagh and it'll be a cold day in hell before they see Limerick as their city even though it effectively is.

Excellent point. I know people who travel in from Clare (Ennis, Newmarket on Fergus), and Tipp (Birdhill, Newport) who, while they don't have anything bad to say about Limerick, at the same time they don't feel any affinity with the place. They could be working in an industrial estate in Shannon or Dooradoyle for all they care. I really think that the people who make decisions need to be brave and bold. Half the city centre should be pedestrianised and shops and department stores should be encouraged back. I'll take wandering around town (with the option of ducking in to a pub while the missus tries on her hundreth pair of shoes) over a soulless shopping centre any day of the week.

zulutango

Mairzydoats wrote: »

Half the city centre should be pedestrianised and shops and department stores should be encouraged back. I'll take wandering around town (with the option of ducking in to a pub while the missus tries on her hundreth pair of shoes) over a soulless shopping centre any day of the week.

On that particular point, I think the only thing that is going to entice businesses back into the city is the bottom line. Of course, rates could be reduced and that'll go a long way to help. But if we really want to see the city centre thrive again, then we're just going to have to get people living there again, in big numbers. Nearly half of Limerick's population lives in the suburbs. A huge chunk of the half that do live in the city centre come from lower socio-economic backgrounds. Until that demographic reality is changed we're not going to see a huge difference in the retail activity and vibrancy of Limerick City. We can pedestrianise and prettify the city all we like in the hope that it'll make people want to come in and spend their money, but it'll only go so far. If we put the emphasis on getting people to live in the city again, then the retailers will follow. If we don't, we'll continue to see betting shops, pound shops and fast food outlets thrive, while everything else goes to the wall.

Amazotheamazing

Silentcorner wrote: »

I have always thought that Limericks biggest challenge is overcoming the attitude of our own citizens

We get a chance to become a cultural capital for a year and we get Limerick people actually objecting to it??? Madness

Par for the course around these parts anyhow.

Limerick is starting from a much lower base than other cities, for whatever reason wrt to events and yet whenever something does come along people line up to knock it. The (unintentionally) hilarious re-action to the Great Limerick Run on here for example.

One thing I'd say is we're getting one run at this life business, if you don't like where you live, don't bitch about it, change it or move.

Mairzydoats

zulutango wrote: »

On that particular point, I think the only thing that is going to entice businesses back into the city is the bottom line. Of course, rates could be reduced and that'll go a long way to help. But if we really want to see the city centre thrive again, then we're just going to have to get people living there again, in big numbers. Nearly half of Limerick's population lives in the suburbs. A huge chunk of the half that do live in the city centre come from lower socio-economic backgrounds. Until that demographic reality is changed we're not going to see a huge difference in the retail activity and vibrancy of Limerick City. We can pedestrianise and prettify the city all we like in the hope that it'll make people want to come in and spend their money, but it'll only go so far. If we put the emphasis on getting people to live in the city again, then the retailers will follow. If we don't, we'll continue to see betting shops, pound shops and fast food outlets thrive, while everything else goes to the wall.

Agree with all that. You have the added bonus that people living in the city will actually care for it! Zulutango for mayor

zulutango

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

One thing I'd say is we're getting one run at this life business, if you don't like where you live, don't bitch about it, change it or move.

I don't know about you, but all the indications are that I'm immortal

Mairzydoats

Are there many townhouses in Limerick though? You are trying to change the culture of a nation if you want people to move in to flats/apartments. The Irish obsession with owning a house is a massive barrier to getting people to live in the city.

zulutango

Mairzydoats wrote: »

Agree with all that. You have the added bonus that people living in the city will actually care for it! Zulutango for mayor

Honestly, how bad could I be? :rolleyes:

seachto7

Mairzydoats wrote: »

I don't think Galway is particularly arty but they project that image and they've done a cracking job. Kudos to them!

The image of Limerick that has been portrayed is of a decaying city with a crime problem. And sadly, you're more likely to hear 'Stab City' mentioned than anything else. We need to combat that image instead of allowing it to fester any longer!

Yup, I would imagine Limk has produced more internationally famous people in the arts than Galway, but as you said, Galway pushes itself on the art angle, and more power to em. Limk, I think has a "harder" look about it. I don't really know how you could push it as a place to walk around and take photos. There are bits and bobs scattered around the town that are well worth a photo, but the main street is ugle, simple as.
I suppose some people like a city for what you can do in the city, others like a city for where it is situated and what that allows them to do. I mean, if Limerick was on the Atlantic, it would be great to me! I could hit the beach every other day!

zulutango

Mairzydoats wrote: »

Are there many townhouses in Limerick though? You are trying to change the culture of a nation if you want people to move in to flats/apartments. The Irish obsession with owning a house is a massive barrier to getting people to live in the city.

I think the culture is going to change regardless. The economic reality is that people can't afford to be driving all over the place all the time, which is the reality of suburban and rural life (unless of course you just want to stay in your house all day, which is unfortunately what many people do actually choose to do). Cities and towns came about in the first place because societies realised that living in clusters was bloody efficient. The advent of motorised transport changed things radically for the last 100 years but it looks like a correction of sorts is taking place.

I think smart developers and planners will realise that there is a rapidly increasing market for high quality city centre accomodation. And it doesn't necessarily have to be brand, spanking new either. I'd hope to see the Georgian quarter of Limerick renovated for this purpose. Plenty of developers will tell you that it should be knocked and new apartment blocks and townhouses built, but, as has been done in Paris, London, New York and elsewhere, a lot of the old building stock can be tastefully renovated.

Mairzydoats

seachto7 wrote: »

Yup, I would imagine Limk has produced more internationally famous people in the arts than Galway, but as you said, Galway pushes itself on the art angle, and more power to em. Limk, I think has a "harder" look about it. I don't really know how you could push it as a place to walk around and take photos. There are bits and bobs scattered around the town that are well worth a photo, but the main street is ugle, simple as.
I suppose some people like a city for what you can do in the city, others like a city for where it is situated and what that allows them to do. I mean, if Limerick was on the Atlantic, it would be great to me! I could hit the beach every other day!

True, location is crucial. Maybe Limerick can just take over Kilkee and rebuild there?
But we've got the Shannon flowing through the middle of the city which is massively underutilised. A rowing festival maybe? Or some kind of watersports weekend (stop sniggering at the back)? You've got to entice people to the city to change perceptions.

Mairzydoats

zulutango wrote: »

I think the culture is going to change regardless. The economic reality is that people can't afford to be driving all over the place all the time, which is the reality of suburban and rural life (unless of course you just want to stay in your house all day, which is unfortunately what many people do actually choose to do). Cities and towns came about in the first place because societies realised that living in clusters was bloody efficient. The advent of motorised transport changed things radically for the last 100 years but it looks like a correction of sorts is taking place.

I think smart developers and planners will realise that there is a rapidly increasing market for high quality city centre accomodation. And it doesn't necessarily have to be brand, spanking new either. I'd hope to see the Georgian quarter of Limerick renovated for this purpose. Plenty of developers will tell you that it should be knocked and new apartment blocks and townhouses built, but, as has been done in Paris, London, New York and elsewhere, a lot of the old building stock can be tastefully renovated.

Would be nice to see people living in the Georgian quarter instead of just a whole bunch of law offices!

zulutango

Mairzydoats wrote: »

True, location is crucial. Maybe Limerick can just take over Kilkee and rebuild there?
But we've got the Shannon flowing through the middle of the city which is massively underutilised. A rowing festival maybe? Or some kind of watersports weekend (stop sniggering at the back)? You've got to entice people to the city to change perceptions.

The Shannon river has been identified as one of Limerick's great natural assets, and Riverfest is supposed to capitalise on it. It just doesn't do it very well! There is an incredibly rich heritage and strong connection between the city and Shannon, and there's loads and loads of things you could do to make a very popular festival around that, or indeed a series of festivals and events and even sustainable businesses. But what do we get? ****ing power boat racing.

Now, that said, it's a bloody difficult river to work with. It goes from fast flowing, white water rapids, to calm and peaceful every six hours. Add in a bit of weather, and it is an event organisers nightmare. But, I do think there is a lot to work with. Just needs a bit of clever thinking.

Kess73

zulutango wrote: »

Honestly, how bad could I be? :rolleyes:

Given the calibre of what has held that office and what currently does, I would say that some random person from a web forum would be a massive step up in quality.


The fact that you can see some of the more obvious things that would enhance the city defo puts you well above the so called "professionals" that make up our councils/local authorities/political groups etc

seachto7

Mairzydoats wrote: »

True, location is crucial. Maybe Limerick can just take over Kilkee and rebuild there?
But we've got the Shannon flowing through the middle of the city which is massively underutilised. A rowing festival maybe? Or some kind of watersports weekend (stop sniggering at the back)? You've got to entice people to the city to change perceptions.

yeah, with all the rowing clubs, do they put on regattas in the city, or can they? I reckon we should have mortar attacks from one side of the river to the other..
Yeah, develop Kilkee as "New Limerick"....a new city on the Western seaboard...

Mairzydoats

seachto7 wrote: »

yeah, with all the rowing clubs, do they put on regattas in the city, or can they? I reckon we should have mortar attacks from one side of the river to the other..
Yeah, develop Kilkee as "New Limerick"....a new city on the Western seaboard...

Just pulling ideas out of my jacksie
Maybe they can build on the Riverfest thing and turn it in to something amazing!

christmas2012

they will have consumption rooms(legal rooms where druggies can use all over irish cities) in 2014,i hope they dont make a big thing of that,but knowing journos they will..

Mairzydoats

christmas2012 wrote: »

they will have consumption rooms(legal rooms where druggies can use all over irish cities) in 2014,i hope they dont make a big thing of that,but knowing journos they will..

I'm sure that gob****e Barry Duggan will be all over it!

zulutango

seachto7 wrote: »

yeah, with all the rowing clubs, do they put on regattas in the city, or can they?

The big local rowing event every year is Limerick Regatta. All the local clubs are heavily involved in it and they get large numbers of crews travelling from around the country to participate. It's one of the more important events on the Irish domestic rowing calendar. Of course, most people don't know it's on because it takes place in in O'Brien's Bridge

There's very good reasons for hosting the regatta 10 miles outside the city (the main one being that the river isn't tidal up there, whereas it is in the city centre), but it means that it's not something that the wider Limerick populace or council can really get behind.

Johnny_BravoIII

not enough in Limerick, IMO, to warrant it being designated a city of culture. Giving it that status is to me like building a house without a foundation.

.....disfunctional city council, 3 planning authorities, city centre rates, high unemployment, .........etc etc
Is there a magic bullet solution I'm unaware of?
Should all progressive ideas stop dead until these impossible riddles are resolved?

On the Galway thing.
IMO the difference is people living in the city centre. There's a constanct flow of people which creates an atmosphere.
There's also a natural dynamic between winter students & summer tourists which keeps that certain buzz going all year long.
The Arts Festival is excellent every year and plays a role in devloping the "arty" reputation.(combined with the city centre location of the college).

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CityDevelopmentBoard/Publications/
Is there a tourism plan for limerick?

zulutango

Kess73 wrote: »

Given the calibre of what has held that office and what currently does, I would say that some random person from a web forum would be a massive step up in quality.


The fact that you can see some of the more obvious things that would enhance the city defo puts you well above the so called "professionals" that make up our councils/local authorities/political groups etc

I think there was actually a guy who stood in the last local elections in Limerick. His manifesto fairly blatantly said that he couldn't be any worse than the rest. Think he got about 4 votes.

Mairzydoats

zulutango wrote: »

I think there was actually a guy who stood in the last local elections in Limerick. His manifesto fairly blatantly said that he couldn't be any worse than the rest. Think he got about 4 votes.

Assuming he voted for himself, he only manged another 3 votes? That's fair bad!

ZombieBride

It is the pride that is lacking, I went out to help with the Tidy Towns for a number of weeks and I was sadly shocked at how few people would turn out, and how many would pass us by saying "good job". The worst was one business owner who left her business as we were cleaning the steps saying "they are impossible to keep clean"... so she didn't even try.

Limerick has a lot more going for it than rugby, I can't stand most sports and there are a lot of us out there like that. It has an incredible amount of varied restaurants, the Gourmet Limerick initiative was a good idea but could have been a lot better but still there are plenty of ideas there that if the right people get to organise this City of Culture it could work a treat. It's better than not trying or having anything to aim for.

We have lots of art galleries in the city, a lot of people don't know they are there but they are. I am always amazed at how many Limerick people have never been to our museums, even the free ones, as that's what you do on holidays, yet they will go to them in Dublin while visiting. (Side note, the Jim Kemmy museum is in a woeful building) We need groups to be invited to tour the museums, soccer clubs, rowing clubs, etc. Have an evening where Limerick clubs get free access then you'll get the movement of people. These are only top of my head ideas, I'm sure there are many more that could make this work.

grenache

vkid wrote: »

It doesnt matter what Cork got, Their year as European City of Culture was a non event, a failure. Limerick coudlnt do any worse.

Also they were Euiropean city of culture. Limerick is not

it doesn't matter what Cork got? So total redevelopment of Patrick St, Grand Parade and Oliver Plunkett St costing millions of euro, is insignificant? If you think O'Connell and William St could not benefit from something similar, then you're for the birds. Cork got a lasting physical legacy, and huge exposure, leading to it ultimately being named one of Top 10 cities to visit in the 2010 edition of Lonely Planet. You can't put a figure on such positive exposure. Cork is thronged with tourists every week. They are thin on the ground in Limerick.

And yes, Limerick's is a national cultural event compared to Cork's European one, but you brought up Cork 2005 to begin with

marienbad

I have rarely heard a Limerick person knocking Limerick , in fact we are quite proud of our city even to the point of embracing the whole ''stab city '' rubbish while at the same time wishing it were otherwise .

Until the city centre is made safe clean and welcoming you can call the city anything you like but it will make little difference to the numbers visiting.

Is that view deemed negative ? If so I would advise people that it is time to get real .

pigtown

What makes you think the city centre is unsafe?

marienbad

pigtown wrote: »

What makes you think the city centre is unsafe?

Sadly experience, both my own and family and friends.

ZombieBride

I just started thinking, it doesn't really matter how many culture nights we have if people don't go out to them. A lot Limerick people (yes I'm going to generalise here) don't attend events even after they say they will.

There have been so many events that I've attended where the numbers aren't even in double figures, and this is not due to the lack of publicity by the promoters or interest in the event but solely due to people not turning out (the facebook event "going" section my have 300 people but only 10 show up, this is the rule not the exception). This especially the case if the venue does not serve alcohol, as far as I have seen.

How do we get people to turn out without walking them into town holding their hands?